View Full Version : Anyone have a Valab LCR Phono Stage ?
WESTLOWER
06-03-2019, 10:46
Does anyone have a Valab LCR Phono Stage they would be willing to demo or
possibly send to London for a home demo. Would put a ££ deposit in place and pay for all carriage..
Appreciated.
Bigman80
06-03-2019, 16:12
Does anyone have a Valab LCR Phono Stage they would be willing to demo or
possibly send to London for a home demo. Would put a ££ deposit in place and pay for all carriage..
Appreciated.I heard one today.
I will be writing up my impressions of it a little later today hopefully.
WESTLOWER
06-03-2019, 16:16
I heard one today.
I will be writing up my impressions of it a little later today hopefully.
Great look forward to that Oli
cheers
I heard one today.
I will be writing up my impressions of it a little later today hopefully.
Which version did you hear Oli? Mine is the latest mk iii
Bigman80
08-03-2019, 22:29
Which version did you hear Oli? Mine is the latest mk iiiMK2. I'd like to hear the MK3.
MK2. I'd like to hear the MK3.
What were your impressions Oli?
Bigman80
09-03-2019, 08:57
What were your impressions Oli?Of the MK2:
Full bodied sound but never sounded fat or chunky. Soundstage was nice and wide. Really well balanced, tonally. Good insight into the track.
I liked it.
It lost out a on the little things like nuances, but we had the gain set at 68db. We did that to try and make the playing field Equal with my phonostage, except my phonostage now has less gain after a few mods. The Extra gain IMO masked a bit of the finer details and thus imaging suffered a bit. Didn't sound quite as natural as I'm used to but again, if the gain was too high, it wouldn't.
I think, if we had more time to have got the gain right, the Valab would have offered more of what it already did really well and I think the imaging would improve.
Our mistake.
I'd definitely give the Valab another listen as it's certainly in the ballpark of my idea of good. Just needed to sort the setup out. I'm a little annoyed by the fact we got that wrong.
Thanks Oli... I have mine set at 65db and have no detail or imaging problems..I'm going to try it at 62db and lower this weekend. Should be interesting...
Of the MK2:
Full bodied sound but never sounded fat or chunky. Soundstage was nice and wide. Really well balanced, tonally. Good insight into the track.
I liked it.
It lost out a on the little things like nuances, but we had the gain set at 68db. We did that to try and make the playing field Equal with my phonostage, except my phonostage now has less gain after a few mods. The Extra gain IMO masked a bit of the finer details and thus imaging suffered a bit. Didn't sound quite as natural as I'm used to but again, if the gain was too high, it wouldn't.
I think, if we had more time to have got the gain right, the Valab would have offered more of what it already did really well and I think the imaging would improve.
Our mistake.
I'd definitely give the Valab another listen as it's certainly in the ballpark of my idea of good. Just needed to sort the setup out. I'm a little annoyed by the fact we got that wrong.
Bigman80
09-03-2019, 09:16
Thanks Oli... I have mine set at 65db and have no detail or imaging problems..I'm going to try it at 62db and lower this weekend. Should be interesting...I'm not saying it has imaging problems, or didn't image well, but it didn't image as well as my incumbent phonostage. Which I suspect was down to us having the gain too high. I only mention it to be completely transparent about it.
It did paint a good picture in its own right.
See, when you start comparing gear, it's rare that one unit is better outright than another. There's always an area something does better than something else. The Valab lost out on imaging and naturalism but it had the edge in terms of being fuller sounding.
I can swap valves and fatten the tone up to match it though, so it isn't an outright win in that respect. However I was impressed with the Valab but I'd need to spend some time with one to really get to know it.
It did well because id be willing to give it more system time.
crimsondonkey
17-06-2019, 13:53
I've just bought a Mk3 and after waiting a few weeks it arrived this morning. Set at 62db gain and still playing with impedance as the Fidelity Research cart currently fitted is specced as 10 ohms.
Most owners report needing a long burn in but we'll see. Certainly the range of adjustment makes it very versatile. Previous Aurorasound Vida owner.
I'll come back and report on progress once it has a few hours on it.
I've just bought a Mk3 and after waiting a few weeks it arrived this morning. Set at 62db gain and still playing with impedance as the Fidelity Research cart currently fitted is specced as 10 ohms.
Most owners report needing a long burn in but we'll see. Certainly the range of adjustment makes it very versatile. Previous Aurorasound Vida owner.
I'll come back and report on progress once it has a few hours on it.
I’m watching this with interest , I just bought Aurorasound Vida as a means to replace my Paradise stage .
Vida is very close but Paradise slightly edges Vida mainly due to creating deeper more 3D soundstage and bit more liquid presentation, mind you I have managed maybe 4 hours of listening time .
WESTLOWER
20-06-2019, 07:28
Interesting stuff. Crimsondonkey let us know your impressions ...
I've just bought a Mk3 and after waiting a few weeks it arrived this morning. Set at 62db gain and still playing with impedance as the Fidelity Research cart currently fitted is specced as 10 ohms.
Most owners report needing a long burn in but we'll see. Certainly the range of adjustment makes it very versatile. Previous Aurorasound Vida owner.
I'll come back and report on progress once it has a few hours on it.How much did it cost in total if you don't mind me asking, I've had one on my radar for a while and I'm still considering one as well as a couple of others [emoji6]
WESTLOWER
20-06-2019, 07:58
How much did it cost in total if you don't mind me asking, I've had one on my radar for a while and I'm still considering one as well as a couple of others [emoji6]
Valab price is on eBay
+ import duties
Valab price is on eBay
+ import dutiesYip, just couldn't be arsed trying to work it out [emoji23]
Plus you can never be sure of the 'collection' fee
I started a thread on PFM about my search for Paradise stage replacement, I’ve done so far couple of hours of direct comparison between Vida and Paradise , last few posts in this thread:
https://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/leaving-paradise-new-phono-stage.228292/page-4
WESTLOWER
20-06-2019, 08:17
Yip, just couldn't be arsed trying to work it out [emoji23]
Plus you can never be sure of the 'collection' fee
Import on that is going to be no more than £40 id have thought
Import on that is going to be no more than £40 id have thoughtIt usually equates to approx 25% of the total including postage plus collection fee [emoji6] ( I know the exact %'s but rounded it up )
So on £700 inc postage I'd expect roughly £160 on top plus collection fee but the collection fee varies which was why I thought easier to ask the actual total from crimson
WESTLOWER
20-06-2019, 08:19
I started a thread on PFM about my search for Paradise stage replacement, I’ve done so far couple of hours of direct comparison between Vida and Paradise , last few posts in this thread:
https://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/leaving-paradise-new-phono-stage.228292/page-4
Nice post Slav. Interesting they come out pretty similar..
Now the next comparison...anyone put the Vida up against the Valab?
that would be very interesting indeed..
WESTLOWER
20-06-2019, 08:32
It usually equates to approx 25% of the total including postage plus collection fee [emoji6] ( I know the exact %'s but rounded it up )
So on £700 inc postage I'd expect roughly £160 on top plus collection fee but the collection fee varies which was why I thought easier to ask the actual total from crimson
ooh! :eek:
My guesstimate is well off in that case.
ooh! :eek:
My guesstimate is well off in that case.The annoying thing is the 'collection' fee, they don't collect it, YOU pay it [emoji23]
WESTLOWER
20-06-2019, 08:40
The annoying thing is the 'collection' fee, they don't collect it, YOU pay it [emoji23]
I stopped buying records from the states years ago as I was being stitched up on the customs charges.
Fewer sellers were willing to down value the declaration value on the parcel label.
crimsondonkey
20-06-2019, 11:52
ooh! :eek:
My guesstimate is well off in that case.
Actually, in this case, its not!
I was gobsmacked to see that I only had to pay £35!!! I've thrown the docket away with the breakdown, but that included the usual £12 'handling' fee. I was expecting the full VAT plus import duty monty from customs.
I must have paid three times that for a vintage Fidelity Research cartridge I just bought from Japan for about £200.
WESTLOWER
20-06-2019, 11:54
Actually, in this case, its not!
I was gobsmacked to see that I only had to pay £35!!! I've thrown the docket away with the breakdown, but that included the usual £12 'handling' fee. I was expecting the full VAT plus import duty monty from customs.
I must have paid three times that for a vintage Fidelity Research cartridge I just bought from Japan for about £200.
Great!
Wayne, how would you pitch the Valab (on your limited listening time) to the Vida?
crimsondonkey
20-06-2019, 12:03
To be frank, I can't really with any great precision.
For a start I think the Valab needs a good few hours on it before you can really assess it. I've also changed carts over, and even worse I've not really had my new TT for very long so that's probably yet to be fully optimised. And then you have to find the sweet spot between the various load and gain settings you can adjust. By which time you then have to try to drag an impression out of your aural memory as to what your records sounded like over a month ago through the Vida...
However, I can offer some hope in that I'm fully enjoying listening to it now, whatever the differences may be.
Am I expecting it to giant slay either the Vida or Paradise? Nope not really, just come close enough so that I don't regret selling my Vida. Its a bit of a stop gap as my intended preamp set up is via a Pioneer H-Z1 MC head amp (which I have) into a Pioneer C-Z1 preamp (which I'm looking for).
Once I think the Valab has settled in I'll also have a play with plugging the H-Z1 into the Valab and setting that for MM 47k output.
WESTLOWER
20-06-2019, 12:06
To be frank, I can't really with any great precision.
For a start I think the Valab needs a good few hours on it before you can really assess it. I've also changed carts over, and even worse I've not really had my new TT for very long so that's probably yet to be fully optimised. And then you have to find the sweet spot between the various load and gain settings you can adjust. By which time you then have to try to drag an impression out of your aural memory as to what your records sounded like over a month ago through the Vida...
However, I can offer some hope in that I'm fully enjoying listening to it now, whatever the differences may be.
Am I expecting it to giant slay either the Vida or Paradise? Nope not really, just come close enough so that I don't regret selling my Vida. Its a bit of a stop gap as my intended preamp set up is via a Pioneer H-Z1 MC head amp (which I have) into a Pioneer C-Z1 preamp (which I'm looking for).
Once I think the Valab has settled in I'll also have a play with plugging the H-Z1 into the Valab and setting that for MM 47k output.
Thanks Wayne, thats a honest reply.
Enjoy.
Firebottle
20-06-2019, 12:12
Just to put the spanner in the works I have just bought a Lounge Audio LCR Mk3, they are about $300 in the states.
However as supplied they are very flawed, as seen here https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-lounge-lcr-mkiii-phono-amp.7244/
There are some very weird design choices in the component selection and subsequent need for 'pre-equalisation' :scratch:
With 4 simple changes to the circuit it is now punching way above its $300 price tag.
I will get others to hear it and see how they rate it soon.
crimsondonkey
20-06-2019, 12:27
Alan once the Valab has burned in I can pop it up to you for a quick shoot out with the Lounge to see what you think.
Hi Alan.
What were your impressions of the Lounge Audio before you modified it?
Bigman80
20-06-2019, 12:44
Hi Alan.
What were your impressions of the Lounge Audio before you modified it?That's supposed to be square. Think it speaks for itself lolhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190620/2985d4ef02c2bb7e0bba09c5f0470823.jpg
Firebottle
20-06-2019, 12:50
Alan once the Valab has burned in I can pop it up to you for a quick shoot out with the Lounge to see what you think.
Sure thing Wayne, look forward to it.
WESTLOWER
20-06-2019, 12:53
That's supposed to be square. Think it speaks for itself lolhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190620/2985d4ef02c2bb7e0bba09c5f0470823.jpg
Not really ... I think Petrat was asking for sonic listening impressions?
Firebottle
20-06-2019, 12:54
Hi Alan.
What were your impressions of the Lounge Audio before you modified it?
It was OK for a hundred and something note buy, but the response wasn't even at the bottom end and a simpler SS phono stage bettered it, particularly in clarity.
Once I'd delved into the circuitry it was apparent some weird sh*t was happening.
Bigman80
20-06-2019, 12:56
Not really ... I think Petrat was asking for sonic listening impressions?Fair enough but If I saw that in its specs, I wouldn't even audition it.
crimsondonkey
20-06-2019, 12:59
Fair enough but If I saw that in its specs, I wouldn't even audition it.
Same here. That's not being a measurebator, that's not bothering with things that are broken.
Bigman80
20-06-2019, 13:10
Same here. That's not being a measurebator, that's not bothering with things that are broken.Absolutely spot on.
A lot of folks buy with their eyes. How many people actually read about the measured performance before a purchase?
Personally, I find it quite astonishing that things as fundamental to the unit's performance such as RIAA accuracy and hum from the traffo, seem to have been completely ignored. They MUST have tested it before it went into production.
crimsondonkey
20-06-2019, 13:19
Absolutely spot on.
A lot of folks buy with their eyes. How many people actually read about the measured performance before a purchase?
Personally, I find it quite astonishing that things as fundamental to the unit's performance such as RIAA accuracy and hum from the traffo, seem to have been completely ignored. They MUST have tested it before it went into production.
Actual transcript* from the pre launch meeting at Lounge Audio:
'But what happens if the reviewers start measuring the units and discover the truth'
'We will issue a pre-emptive strike by launching the golden eared reviewers to hype the amp to the stratosphere, using phrases like giant killer, musical, and veil lifting, now get on YouTube and start selling!'
*may not be THE actual transcript
Yes, agreed, it's not the greatest, Alan. As you say, a comparably-priced 'normal' stage easily bettered it ... in my case a Rothwell Simplex.
To my ears, the current Lounge Audio version seems to have been voiced with small, cheap speakers in mind ... bass boost and treble cut. It also seems to have problems with presenting a consistent soundstage. In fact on some recordings, whole instruments seemed to go missing! I had an earlier version a few years back, and it had neither of those problems, at least not to that degree. Since then, the designer has, apparently, listened to 'user feedback' and changed (ruined, actually) the design. Shame, as the original was quite a decent product for the money.
Must say that it did rather amuse me that neither of the engineers who tested it for ASR bothered to actually listen to it after seeing the test results.
Bigman80
20-06-2019, 13:41
Yes, agreed, it's not the greatest, Alan. As you say, a comparably-priced 'normal' stage easily bettered it ... in my case a Rothwell Simplex.
To my ears, the current Lounge Audio version seems to have been voiced with small, cheap speakers in mind ... bass boost and treble cut. It also seems to have problems with presenting a consistent soundstage. In fact on some recordings, whole instruments seemed to go missing! I had an earlier version a few years back, and it had neither of those problems, at least not to that degree. Since then, the designer has, apparently, listened to 'user feedback' and changed (ruined, actually) the design. Shame, as the original was quite a decent product for the money.
Must say that it did rather amuse me that neither of the engineers who tested it for ASR bothered to actually listen to it after seeing the test results.Shame Rothwell isn't here anymore. I also valued his opinion as it was based on fact.
That's supposed to be square. Think it speaks for itself lolhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190620/2985d4ef02c2bb7e0bba09c5f0470823.jpg
Whether or not you are a measurement guy, that is fundamental flaw of the first order, not being able to replicate a basic waveform is like saying naim is capable of quality music reproduction :mental:
Bigman80
21-06-2019, 09:21
Whether or not you are a measurement guy, that is fundamental flaw of the first order, not being able to replicate a basic waveform is like saying naim is capable of quality music reproduction :mental:Haha, I've never heard any Naim gear so can't comment but I totally agree about the waveform.
Hi Oli
The last time I saw a waveform similar to that is was pretending to be a broken output FET.
This is very basic principles here, imagine trying to reach the far side on the moon on a 50cc Vespa, never mid breaking free from the Earth's atmosphere just trying to hot 35mph would be a bloody miracle!
Bigman80
21-06-2019, 11:52
Hi Oli
The last time I saw a waveform similar to that is was pretending to be a broken output FET.
This is very basic principles here, imagine trying to reach the far side on the moon on a 50cc Vespa, never mid breaking free from the Earth's atmosphere just trying to hot 35mph would be a bloody miracle!Lol, moped to the moon and back! Coukb be a great book title
If a Moped constantly did 55 mph over 24 hours, it would get to the Moon in a 180 Days.
Obviously it would need a little assistance, like maybe a road to make this a reality.
WESTLOWER
21-06-2019, 17:33
:offtopic:
Bigman80
21-06-2019, 18:08
If a Moped constantly did 55 mph over 24 hours, it would get to the Moon in a 180 Days.
Obviously it would need a little assistance, like maybe a road to make this a reality.Lol, it's possible at least [emoji23]
I could point out save is a vucuum and no air s n combustion but sorry off topic
Suspect Aan has managed to rectify to basic problem quite easily
crimsondonkey
24-06-2019, 09:20
Sooo, back to the Valab :)
Its been left on for a week and had probably 15-20 hrs of records playing. I've spent a bit of time fiddling with the settings and so far the Fidelity Research FR-1 Mk3 that's currently hanging off the Bergmann seems to prefer 200 ohms and a gain of 67 db. Quite pleased with it tbh, regardless of the money it sounds pretty good so far. Very very quiet.
Next step is to experiment a bit more with different gain settings, and then have a go with the MC head amp set on zero gain and the Valab at MM output. There's 4 impedance settings on the H-Z1 to play with inc 470 ohms to compare.
WESTLOWER
24-06-2019, 09:22
Sooo, back to the Valab :)
Its been left on for a week and had probably 15-20 hrs of records playing. I've spent a bit of time fiddling with the settings and so far the Fidelity Research FR-1 Mk3 that's currently hanging off the Bergmann seems to prefer 200 ohms and a gain of 67 db. Quite pleased with it tbh, regardless of the money it sounds pretty good so far. Very very quiet.
Next step is to experiment a bit more with different gain settings, and then have a go with the MC head amp set on zero gain and the Valab at MM output. There's 4 impedance settings on the H-Z1 to play with inc 470 ohms to compare.
Thanks for the update Wayne, good to know it's hitting the spot.
The MM side of things interests me. I would use the MM with external SUTs.
pure sound
25-06-2019, 22:30
That's supposed to be square. Think it speaks for itself lolhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190620/2985d4ef02c2bb7e0bba09c5f0470823.jpg
If you put a square wave through an RIAA network surely that is what you'd expect?
Otherwise, what exactly do you think it should be doing with the high frequency component of the waveform? If it let it through unaltered it wouldn't be much use in eq'ing the output from a cartridge playing a record.
Here's an Aurorasound Vida reproducing a 1 KHz sine wave.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48128859856_fb4c40c911_b.jpg
and here is the same phono stage applying RIAA correction to a 1 KHz square wave
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48128947782_d82bc58147_b.jpg
That's what it's supposed to look like. You need to remember what a square wave actually is.
Bigman80
26-06-2019, 05:03
If you put a square wave through an RIAA network surely that is what you'd expect?
Otherwise, what exactly do you think it should be doing with the high frequency component of the waveform? If it let it through unaltered it wouldn't be much use in eq'ing the output from a cartridge playing a record.
Here's an Aurorasound Vida reproducing a 1 KHz sine wave.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48128859856_fb4c40c911_b.jpg
and here is the same phono stage applying RIAA correction to a 1 KHz square wave
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48128947782_d82bc58147_b.jpg
That's what it's supposed to look like. You need to remember what a square wave actually is.Square?
Look, my understanding of these things may be rudimentary in comparison to guys like yourself but the fact it can't produce a square wave cannot be misinterpreted, surely.
My understanding is that the squarer the wave, the better the response. Is that not correct?
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190626/1d853416c8b9acc2f5c9294bd59db9e7.jpg
If you put a square wave through an RIAA network surely that is what you'd expect?
Otherwise, what exactly do you think it should be doing with the high frequency component of the waveform? If it let it through unaltered it wouldn't be much use in eq'ing the output from a cartridge playing a record.
Here's an Aurorasound Vida reproducing a 1 KHz sine wave.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48128859856_fb4c40c911_b.jpg
and here is the same phono stage applying RIAA correction to a 1 KHz square wave
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48128947782_d82bc58147_b.jpg
That's what it's supposed to look like. You need to remember what a square wave actually is.
I take you haven't applied inverse RIAA to the signal , square is a good indication but frequency sweep or white noise response tells bit more
Firebottle
26-06-2019, 06:30
Guy, the supposed square wave is 1KHz through a reverse RIAA network then through the phono stage. Hence the derision.
pure sound
26-06-2019, 07:19
:) That would explain it if so. Out of interest, how accurate is your reverse RIAA?
Firebottle
26-06-2019, 11:22
Probably 0.5 dB, constructed with accurate parts.
montesquieu
26-06-2019, 12:17
Probably 0.5 dB, constructed with accurate parts.
It's a bit unfortunate the way this thread has panned out, a casual reader or someone jumping in might assume these dodgy traces are from the Valab, which they aren't .. they are from the Lounge Audio. I was confused myself when I came back into this thread.
Or maybe I'm just a bit slow.
WESTLOWER
26-06-2019, 12:21
It's a bit unfortunate the way this thread has panned out, a casual reader or someone jumping in might assume these dodgy traces are from the Valab, which they aren't .. they are from the Lounge Audio. I was confused myself when I came back into this thread.
Or maybe I'm just a bit slow.
+1
No you are not a bit slow.
The Thread was for the VALAB LCR
All this has nowt to do with the Valab Phonostage...
So...after all this months (Happy new year to everyone...) all you owners of Valab lcr - how happy you are now with this interesting lcr phono...i presume it is burn in ...don't have any experience with this phono stage so i just ask.
oceanobsession
05-01-2020, 16:25
Hi denis , im happy with mine , a bargain for sure , also very quiet , it does improve with over time , not yet tried it with an sut , lots of adjustments
lots of detail all presented in a good way , also only paid £39 import duty and tax , you will have to wait a few weeks for it to turn up , but it arrived well packaged and in good condition , highly recommended , phil.
martinswimmer
05-01-2020, 17:52
I've had mine for a while now and it's very quiet and very smooth. I have no complaints whatsoever, but have to say that I generally find phono stages to be relatively neutral components in my system. Another phono stage that I have produces more deep bass (lusher sound with more bloom) - but maybe that's coloration? It is considerably noisier than the Valab and has coarseness in the midrange. That doesn't make it much less enjoyable than the Valab, but when you compare them - it becomes apparent. In any case, it hasn't brought about any serious change in the sound signature - the change of the cartridge, tonearm, wiring, setup, damping.... seems to have more effect. I'd like to try another top end phono stage and compare it to the Valab.
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