MC Cartridge Advice appreciated please

[AJSki2fly]

OK so I think that I may be nearing audio nirvana but feel that I can probably improve on the vinyl replay front in terms of more detail and clarity. Don't get me wrong my set up sound very musical and is a great listen I just think there is a little bit more to be had and possibly without spending too much relatively speaking.

At present my cartridge is a Michel Cusis MC which I believe is effectively a Benz Micro Glider SL mounted in a Michel designed body to improve resolution and musicality. As I said it is pretty detailed and musical.

So my thought is to replace it with a possible better cartridge, my initial thoughts were an IKEDA 9TS, Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC, or LYRA KLEOS and see if I get what I hope for.

So at present I have SME IV arm with is virtually a V as it was a special order and is 80% a V so should be up to a better cart. The deck is a Gyrodec with Orbe platter this has lots of minor mods mainly from Pete and his Pylons which has made a tremendous improvement to imaging, detail, and soundstage, but it probably about as good as it can be now.

So if anyone has tried these cartridges or even has compared them I would love to hear your views, or any thoughts on similarly priced MC's

Thanks

Adrian

[Mike Reed]

I think you may find that the Ikeda may not be right for your Four cum Five (but this is a guess as I don't know this model), though (personal experience), a Lyra will be fine but less 'warm' that the Benz, but very dynamic nonetheless and a superb all-rounder. I think that Transfig cart's would be okay too (I have one). Your arm is low medium mass and best complements a higher compliance moving coil. Higher up the Benz tree should reap rewards too.

What you have seems to be a good balance of neutral deck, ultra neutral arm and slightly warmer cart. The Transfig's major in transparency and are neither fish nor fowl as regards warmth. Lyras are all excitement and frequency extension but maybe not the last word in emotional involvement. Just my take, though, having had Orbe, Five and the cart's mentioned above.

[hermit]

I'm not familiar with any of the three cartridges you mention but I would suggest that you check out the Phasemation PP-300 and PP-500 cartridges at Ammonite Audio (https://ammonite-audio.co.uk/product-category/phasemation/). Hugo can supply a PP-300 on home demo which is unusual for cartridges at this level and it is very handy to hear how the cartridge performs in your own system rather than gambling on reputation and hoping for synergy. I liked the PP-300 so much I opted to buy the 500 which turned out to be a good decision. My thoughts on the cartridges are here (https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?62800-Phasemation-PP-500-cartridge). Both Phasemations will work well on your SME IV in terms of effective mass. I have a V-12 which has an effective mass of only a gram more I believe.

[montesquieu]

I'm pretty familiar with Lyra and Ikeda, less so with Soundsmith (lots of complaints about their workmanship all over the web but my sole experience with them - a DL103 with the generator rotated to work only in the horizontal and only one coil wired, providing true mono was actually pretty good).

I moved away from Lyra because of what I perceived as a focus on detail retrieval at the expense of two things - 'body' (though this doesn't apply to all of them, I far preferred the body on the Dorian/Dorian Mono and Argo i examples that I had over my old Helikon) and emotionality, which at the time seemed to be slightly lacking - though it's perfectly possible that was an issue elsewhere in my chain at the time as I was using Whest solid state, straight to MC phono stages rather than my preference these days which is tube MM + a decent SUT.

I currently have an Ikeda 9TT (actually my second) which I rate extremely highly, it hasn't quite the emotional impact of my Miyajima Madake, but it's balance of expression, body and detail is far closer to the Madake and to a bold, room-filling, Tannoy matching SPU sort of sound than to the Lyras. It sounds a lot like my old Audio Note Io2 (and is electrically quite similar at 2 ohms and very low output), though on balanced I prefer the 9TT over the Io as just that shade more expressive. The 9TS appears to be the came cartridge only with a higher output. My only caveat would be that it's pretty low compliance and might not be as good a match for the SME as the higher-compliance Lyras.

Transfiguration and Phasemation are both good calls I think.

[AJSki2fly]

I think you may find that the Ikeda may not be right for your Four cum Five (but this is a guess as I don't know this model), though (personal experience), a Lyra will be fine but less 'warm' that the Benz, but very dynamic nonetheless and a superb all-rounder. I think that Transfig cart's would be okay too (I have one). Your arm is low medium mass and best complements a higher compliance moving coil. Higher up the Benz tree should reap rewards too.

What you have seems to be a good balance of neutral deck, ultra neutral arm and slightly warmer cart. The Transfig's major in transparency and are neither fish nor fowl as regards warmth. Lyras are all excitement and frequency extension but maybe not the last word in emotional involvement. Just my take, though, having had Orbe, Five and the cart's mentioned above.

Thanks Mike, very helpful and makes sense to me. Interesting you said higher up the Benz tree should reap rewards my best friend has just ordered BMICRO LPS, I think, he has SME 20/3 TT and V arm and rest of his system has similarities to me, so that will be interesting to hear.

If I understand correctly for emotional involvement and you feel the Benz route is probably the better one?

[AJSki2fly]

I'm not familiar with any of the three cartridges you mention but I would suggest that you check out the Phasemation PP-300 and PP-500 cartridges at Ammonite Audio (https://ammonite-audio.co.uk/product-category/phasemation/). Hugo can supply a PP-300 on home demo which is unusual for cartridges at this level and it is very handy to hear how the cartridge performs in your own system rather than gambling on reputation and hoping for synergy. I liked the PP-300 so much I opted to buy the 500 which turned out to be a good decision. My thoughts on the cartridges are here (https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?62800-Phasemation-PP-500-cartridge). Both Phasemations will work well on your SME IV in terms of effective mass. I have a V-12 which has an effective mass of only a gram more I believe.

Thanks Paul, I have sent an email to Ammonite Audio to see what they can do, Its also best to try if you can. Being quiet and forgiving of iffy pressings would be a great bonus, something my cartridge is not I believe.

[hermit]

Good luck with it Adrian. I hope you're as pleased with the Phasemations as I was. FWIW, I've had a few audiophile visitors that also very much liked these cartridges in my system. I'll be interested to hear your thoughts.

I certainly found that some modern pressings that were virtually unplayable with my Kiseki played perfectly well with both Phasemations. e.g. Brad Mehldau Trio - Blues and Ballads which has sort of farting noises through it.

[AJSki2fly]

The 9TS appears to be the came cartridge only with a higher output. My only caveat would be that it's pretty low compliance and might not be as good a match for the SME as the higher-compliance Lyras.

Transfiguration and Phasemation are both good calls I think.

Thanks Tom, I looked up https://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_resonance_evaluator.php?eff_mass=10&submit=Submit and

the IKEDA 9TS comes in I think with resonance at around 10hz, with Compliance 7 x 10-6cm/dyne(presumably @ 100hz as Japanese cart) so this should be around 12X10(e-6)cm/dyne @10Hz, with SME effective mass 10/11gm and cartridge weight plus bolts 11-12gm. So this would be OK, I think?

The Phasemation PP-1000 resonance I think will be around 8hz with compliance 16X10(e-6)cm/dyne @10Hz, SME effective mass 10/11gm and cartridge weight plus bolts 14-15gm.

The Transfiguration Pheonix S resonance I think will be around 11hz with compliance 12X10(e-6)cm/dyne(presumably @ 10hz), SME effective mass 10/11gm and cartridge weight plus bolts 9.5-10.5gm.

The Lyra Kleos resonance I think will be around 8-9hz with compliance 12 x 10-6 cm/dyne at 100 Hz (I think this will be about 18-20 10-6 cm/dyne at 10 Hz), SME effective mass 10/11gm and cartridge weight plus bolts 9.5-10.5gm.

So from the compliance point of view it looks to me that any of them should be ok in the SME IV or V, if I have got anything wrong then please let me know. The Phasemation sounds interesting from reviews but your take on the IKEDA is appealing although I would go for the 9TS for higher output.

[montesquieu]

Thanks Tom, I looked up https://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_resonance_evaluator.php?eff_mass=10&submit=Submit and

the IKEDA 9TS comes in I think with resonance at around 10hz, with Compliance 7 x 10-6cm/dyne(presumably @ 100hz as Japanese cart) so this should be around 12X10(e-6)cm/dyne @10Hz, with SME effective mass 10/11gm and cartridge weight plus bolts 11-12gm. So this would be OK, I think?

The Phasemation PP-1000 resonance I think will be around 8hz with compliance 16X10(e-6)cm/dyne @10Hz, SME effective mass 10/11gm and cartridge weight plus bolts 14-15gm.

The Transfiguration Pheonix S resonance I think will be around 11hz with compliance 12X10(e-6)cm/dyne(presumably @ 10hz), SME effective mass 10/11gm and cartridge weight plus bolts 9.5-10.5gm.

The Lyra Kleos resonance I think will be around 8-9hz with compliance 12 x 10-6 cm/dyne at 100 Hz (I think this will be about 18-20 10-6 cm/dyne at 10 Hz), SME effective mass 10/11gm and cartridge weight plus bolts 9.5-10.5gm.

So from the compliance point of view it looks to me that any of them should be ok in the SME IV or V, if I have got anything wrong then please let me know. The Phasemation sounds interesting from reviews but your take on the IKEDA is appealing although I would go for the 9TS for higher output.

All solid calculations. It could well be worth a try at that - I use a fairly high-mass tonearm with mine and the cantilever is very short but according to those figures you should be ok.

I actually got speedysteve to make me some Ikeda shape-matching round-ended tonearm weights (5-7g) from sheet lead and copper, which I'm not using now I have the correct 20g Ikeda headshell for the cartrridge (I also use Ikeda hedshells on my Miyajima cartridges). If you go for it, you could have a try with these you feel the arm needs a few more grammes.

[Mike Reed]

Thanks Mike, very helpful and makes sense to me. Interesting you said higher up the Benz tree should reap rewards my best friend has just ordered BMICRO LPS, I think, he has SME 20/3 TT and V arm and rest of his system has similarities to me, so that will be interesting to hear.

If I understand correctly for emotional involvement and you feel the Benz route is probably the better one?

Lovely cart., the LPS (top of the range). My friend got the LPS after he'd sold me his LP Ebony. I simply loved that one, so the LPS has to be rated (same deck, amplication/ph.stage though but different arms but incl. an SME.) Only bested by my Transfig. Proteus; not in warmth but in transparency and equal in involvement, though I was (am) on 12" arms with those. Only my Urushi Vermillion was also played on the Five/Orbe, but Ks are optimally out for your set-up (as are Miyajima and similar, as Tom says).

Tom's nailed the Lyras (well, at least some) though you may well enjoy their presentation. Personal opinion, but with the neutrality (read coolness) of the Five particularly, a tonal counterbalance is worth looking at.

[AJSki2fly]

Mike thanks again, all this helps. I think I need to put Benz Micro LPS in the list, along with Ikeda 9TS, Transfiguration Pheonix S and Phasemation PP-1000. I think I would love the Transfig Proteus but this is outside my spending allowance and The other half would definitely not understand in anyway:rolleyes: Even the ones I am looking at I think will cause some consternation, but I have a plan.

Cheers

Adrian