Amplifiers for single driver speakers

[queensgardens]

Hi,
I'm a newbie here and have just finished building my first DIY speakers - a large bass reflex cabinet with 10" Audirvana drivers (their Super 10 Ferrite's $350).
I have zero experience with a soldering iron so single drivers seemed the way to go.
I am so pleased and genuinely surprised at the sound quality so have been trying a couple of different amplifiers with them.
So far a Decware Taboo and a Clones Audio 25irh. Both are sounding good but wondered whether anyone had any other suggestions.
They are extremely efficient at about 99dB so don't need many watts. they go 34Hz to nearly 20kHz. My room is only 8' x 16' and I don't listen loud. Classical with a bit of jazz. Budget up to about £750.
Any thoughts gratefully received.

Steve

[Lawrence001]

Not sure what their topology is but single ended triode seems the obvious match.

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[chris@panteg]

Puresound A10 or A30, you can find the A30 second hand for around £750

[Pigmy Pony]

When you get your hands on that Amptastic Mini 1, you'll probably be able to search for another amp at your leisure, and hang on for a good deal. In fact the Amptastic may be all you need, it's that good. I have used mine with my Zu speakers (also about 100dB) and they go to decent levels.

But £750 would buy a decent s/h valve amp, output not important really with your speakers.

[Ali Tait]

An ideal match for your speakers would be one of these-

https://www.transcendentsound.com/mini-beast.html

Bit more than your budget but we’ll worth saving up for. You won’t have heard anything like it. I have one and it does better bass than most of the SS amps I’ve tried. Cavernous sound staging and really sweet treble. Trust me, this will better any SE or PP amp at your budget.

Caveat is of course is it’s a kit, so you’d need to find someone to build it for you, or I believe they offer a build service.

[queensgardens]

Thanks for all the ideas. The mini-beast looks very interesting. Maybe I should learn to solder?

[walpurgis]

What's wrong with the amps you've been trying?

[Ali Tait]

Thanks for all the ideas. The mini-beast looks very interesting. Maybe I should learn to solder?

Well, the instructions are very clear and there is plenty help available from Bruce and his forum.

Try doing some research on his OTL’s, there is much love around for them.

[queensgardens]

I wouldn't say there is anything wrong with them. It's more a matter of having some fun trying out some options to see if any of them really click with the new speakers.

[montesquieu]

Are you sure these are meant to be run full-range? Most people are using them as woofers so far as I can see.

I can't see specs for them but I would expect most 10in drivers capable of moving air would need a bit of damping factor to keep them under control hence general unsuitability of low power SET. This is regardless of efficiency specs. Don't be fooled into thinking that you have lots of treble, the very top note of the piano is only 4 khz, everything above that is about harmonics, which are critical in providing realistic sound.

Id go for a nice EL84 push pull, 12w or so (lots of options from Leak to Leben). I'd also think of adding a lower-than-normal stretching supertweeter to care of harmonics from 4khz upwards. No driver satisfactorily does the range you quote without distortion at one end or the other.

[Edward]

Do you mean Audio Nirvana drivers from Common Sense Audio (David Dicks)?

I've heard a few speakers using Audio Nirvana drivers and always been impressed. Even thought of building a pair but never got round to it (yet).

Love to see a pic of your build.

[montesquieu]

Do you mean Audio Nirvana drivers from Common Sense Audio (David Dicks)?

I've heard a few speakers using Audio Nirvana drivers and always been impressed. Even thought of building a pair but never got round to it (yet).

Love to see a pic of your build.



Have you heard them used single driver Edward? Claiming 34Hz to 20kHz is a massive stretch - below the bottom string of a double bass pretty much to the highest frequency a quality ribbon microphone can dectect ... doing this with any kind of measurable fidelity is highly unlikely in my opinion.

For perspective the 12in driver in a Tannoy HPD crosses over at 1.2khz, and the 2in tweeter 'just' does 20khz.

[struth]

My old telefunkens manage a good stretch of the bandwidth imo..

[walpurgis]

Audio Nirvanas are a respected maker of proper full range drivers.

[Edward]

Have you heard them used single driver Edward? Claiming 34Hz to 20kHz is a massive stretch - below the bottom string of a double bass pretty much to the highest frequency a quality ribbon microphone can dectect ... doing this with any kind of measurable fidelity is highly unlikely in my opinion.

For perspective the 12in driver in a Tannoy HPD crosses over at 1.2khz, and the 2in tweeter 'just' does 20khz.

Only heard them at shows Tom. Not had them at home. But I would imagine that even if it went down to 34hz there would be massive rolloff .

But still was quite impressive when I heard them. One build was with Vertex (sp?) grounding and the sound was stunning.

I have Grant's FR Rolas here and they give surprising coherence across the range.

[montesquieu]

Only heard them at shows Tom. Not had them at home. But I would imagine that even if it went down to 34hz there would be massive rolloff .

But still was quite impressive when I heard them. One build was with Vertex (sp?) grounding and the sound was stunning.

I have Grant's FR Rolas here and they give surprising coherence across the range.



Need to hear them if that's the case .. but I suspect you are stretching the laws of physics (or at least, of materials science) here.

[walpurgis]

Need to hear them if that's the case .. but I suspect you are stretching the laws of physics (or at least, of materials science) here.

Nothing new about large full range speakers. Some of them even sound good. :)

[montesquieu]

Nothing new about large full range speakers. Some of them even sound good. :)

I know I've had decent 8in single drivers myself but 10in seems a bit of a stretch at the top end.

[struth]

Only heard them at shows Tom. Not had them at home. But I would imagine that even if it went down to 34hz there would be massive rolloff .

But still was quite impressive when I heard them. One build was with Vertex (sp?) grounding and the sound was stunning.

I have Grant's FR Rolas here and they give surprising coherence across the range.My telefunkens are a fair bit better than the rolas especially doubled up In the big cabs. Surprising how good some of the old fr drivers were. Not tried any modern ones

[montesquieu]

My telefunkens are a fair bit better than the rolas especially doubled up In the big cabs. Surprising how good some of the old fr drivers were. Not tried any modern ones

I'm fairly sure they won't do anything like 20khz Grant. I'd be surprised if they do 10 or 12khz. If you think about what that means in a musical sense it's a big ask.

[Edward]

These are the specs for the drivers that Steve is apparently using. Taken from the following link: https://www.commonsenseaudio.com/drivers.html

https://commonsenseaudio.com/an12cfspecs.jpg

[montesquieu]

Impressive set of measurements (in as much as my limited brain can follow). Need to hear these.

[walpurgis]

As ten inch full rangers go, the mega scarce and highly prized Coral Beta 10 from Japan are regarded by many as 'The Holy Grail'! They stopped making those nearly forty years ago.

http://i64.tinypic.com/4g4xy.jpg

[Edward]

Impressive set of measurements (in as much as my limited brain can follow). Need to hear these.

It's all your fault Tom that I never got round to building a pair using these drivers.

You should not have sold the Tannoys I now have. :lol:

[struth]

I don't go much past 12k so can't say. Younger ears haven't said it was missing

[Pigmy Pony]

These are the specs for the drivers that Steve is apparently using. Taken from the following link: https://www.commonsenseaudio.com/drivers.html

https://commonsenseaudio.com/an12cfspecs.jpg

Probably nit picking a bit here, but Steve stated that his drivers were super 10s, not the super 12's shown here.

But regardless of the numbers, he is enjoying the speakers and having fun trying different amps. If they sound right to him then they are right, surely? And when it comes to the suitability of SET amps and large high efficiency paper cones, my 7 wpc SET amp with my 2x10" drivers per enclosure probably shouldn't be right, but I tried the speakers with a much higher power s/s amp and I preferred the former.

I'm not doubting the science, but my dodgy hearing clearly has other ideas :)

Boring world if we all liked the same.

[Edward]

Probably nit picking a bit here, but Steve stated that his drivers were super 10s, not the super 12's shown here.

But regardless of the numbers, he is enjoying the speakers and having fun trying different amps. If they sound right to him then they are right, surely? And when it comes to the suitability of SET amps and large high efficiency paper cones, my 7 wpc SET amp with my 2x10" drivers per enclosure probably shouldn't be right, but I tried the speakers with a much higher power s/s amp and I preferred the former.

I'm not doubting the science, but my dodgy hearing clearly has other ideas :)

Boring world if we all liked the same.

:oops:, you are correct - 10 inches.

[struth]

Enough for any man. Mine are twin 10's too. Efficient and fast with decent sized alnico magnets.

[queensgardens]

Glad my speakers have set off a bit off discussion!
I am just the wrong side of 60 so my ears don't hear much above 14kHz :(. I'm also getting very healthy bass right down to 30Hz.
All I can say is that I'm a keen orchestral musician playing flute/piccolo, piano and organ so I have a good idea of what a range of live instruments sound like and these speakers have got closer to that than anything else I have owned (and that's a fair few speakers over the years - 2-way, electrostatics, other single drivers and magnaplanars).

The CommonSense Audio website has loads of info although it's really badly laid out. David Dicks (Mr. CommonSense) is a really helpful guy and the drivers come with free plans for which ever type of enclosure you want that works with the size of driver.
I built the open baffle design first but it was a bit bass light and 'in your face'.
The bass reflex 5.6Mk.II cabinet seems to have solved both those problems but it is a big lump in my fairly small room (8'x16') so I'm thinking of trying one of his smaller cabinets that uses the same 10" driver.

Just bought the little Amptastic from truckletheuncivil so I'll let you know how it goes.

[Edward]

Yes I also found David Dicks very helpful. He even trusted me with his plans so I could get quotes for a cabinet build. Sounds like you built the cabs yourself.

Interesting points you make about being a trained musician and you found the speakers getting closer to anything you have had before.

Pictures? :)

[queensgardens]

Yes, I built the cabinets but, as you can see, at the moment they are ugly bare plywood. I'll do a nice veneer job on them when I'm certain they're for keeps. I might yet make one of David's smaller cabinets which would fit in the room a bit easier.
25464

[spendorman]

As the speakers are efficient, my view is that the worst amp would be a class AB of high power output. It will not be working in it's low distortion area at very low outputs.

[Lawrence001]

Are you sure these are meant to be run full-range? Most people are using them as woofers so far as I can see.

I can't see specs for them but I would expect most 10in drivers capable of moving air would need a bit of damping factor to keep them under control hence general unsuitability of low power SET. This is regardless of efficiency specs. Don't be fooled into thinking that you have lots of treble, the very top note of the piano is only 4 khz, everything above that is about harmonics, which are critical in providing realistic sound.

Id go for a nice EL84 push pull, 12w or so (lots of options from Leak to Leben). I'd also think of adding a lower-than-normal stretching supertweeter to care of harmonics from 4khz upwards. No driver satisfactorily does the range you quote without distortion at one end or the other.I've got a good quality pair of supertweeters I was planning on selling cheap.

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[queensgardens]

Thanks for the supertweeter offer but I want to keep the speakers as simple as possible.

[montesquieu]

Yes I also found David Dicks very helpful. He even trusted me with his plans so I could get quotes for a cabinet build. Sounds like you built the cabs yourself.

Interesting points you make about being a trained musician and you found the speakers getting closer to anything you have had before.

Pictures? :)

As a musician myself I have come to the conclusion that we can put up with a lot of stuff being a bit 'off' so long as there are no weird phase anomalies going on

Along with both of them being a point source, this is what single drivers and Tannoys have in common - the concentric tweeter in the Tannoy being positioned so that the woofer is 1/4 wavelength of the tweeter at the crossover point, minimising the phase distortion you get with conventional designs and associated crossovers. A lot of musicians like Quad ESLs for similar reasons.

[goraman]

Most single full range drivers drop like a stone or have huge wonky dips and peaks before or after 15 khz.
There is no free lunch with full range drivers, Fostex, Lowther or even Coral all have sonic short comings with out a small super tweeter crossed over somewhere at least 10 or 12 khz.
Even small 3 or 4 inch drivers with wizzer cone roll off to soon for me.

A way around a super tweeter.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-BOSE-MODEL-901-ACTIVE-EQUALIZER/283394383351?epid=1324588916&hash=item41fb9f1df7:g:jlwAAOSwJzpccwGg:rk:4:pf:0

[paulf-2007]

As ten inch full rangers go, the mega scarce and highly prized Coral Beta 10 from Japan are regarded by many as 'The Holy Grail'! They stopped making those nearly forty years ago.

http://i64.tinypic.com/4g4xy.jpgi just bought a pair of Lii audio fast 10, if I could post a pic you could
see how they look like coral. Sound bloody lovely.
I can't hear anything above 12Khz so not a problem if a driver is being questioned for its frequency extension. My mate just got new hearing aids that are programmable to boost the frequencies he can't hear, damage from power tools. He now can't listen to his Oris horns with lowther drivers.

[Lawrence001]

Most single full range drivers drop like a stone or have huge wonky dips and peaks before or after 15 khz.
There is no free lunch with full range drivers, Fostex, Lowther or even Coral all have sonic short comings with out a small super tweeter crossed over somewhere at least 10 or 12 khz.
Even small 3 or 4 inch drivers with wizzer cone roll off to soon for me.

A way around a super tweeter.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-BOSE-MODEL-901-ACTIVE-EQUALIZER/283394383351?epid=1324588916&hash=item41fb9f1df7:g:jlwAAOSwJzpccwGg:rk:4:pf:0Ma ybe I should try my supertweeters on my Jordans.

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[Lawrence001]

Maybe I should try my supertweeters on my Jordans.

Sent from my BLN-L21 using TapatalkNow got them on, I have to say I'm enjoying them quite a bit more [emoji3]

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[Edward]

Now got them on, I have to say I'm enjoying them quite a bit more [emoji3]

Sent from my BLN-L21 using TapatalkOh what type of super tweeters do you have Lawrence?

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[Lawrence001]

Oh what type of super tweeters do you have Lawrence?

§

Ring Radiator types by that Bespoke Supertweeters guy on ebay. Bought them a while ago to match a pair of speakers I had with similar tweeters but they work nicely with most speakers that need a little treble lift, like my Jordans.