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View Full Version : End-user satisfaction? What about THIS ignored commercial relationship?



Neil McCauley
29-05-2008, 16:19
The audio retailer as a customer of the audio supplier:

Hello again.

Having earlier today asked forum members to answer a couple of questions, it struck me that perhaps I should return the favour.

I am inviting you to post questions to me on this forum about any aspect of the relationship between the supplier (maker, importer or distributor) and the retailer. This is an aspect which although crucial to the well-being of the end-user (especially when product reliability under warranty becomes an issue) is rarely discussed.

Would you like me to shed some light?

To keep this within legal bounds, and to avoid brand-evangelical nonsense creeping in, I will not be answering questions that relate to a specific supplier.

Thus if you are curious as to why, during my Subjective Audio days, Naim said they’d never deal with me, nor Rega for that matter, or in later years why I gave up representing STAX, despite the fact that according to STAX Japan I was their Global #1 reseller – all of that will remain a mystery.

Meanwhile, ask away. I promise to give the answer to any sensible question both thought and care.

Thank you

HP
enquiries@Stereonow.co.uk

tfarney
29-05-2008, 20:09
Howard, you're on a roll today. It seemed earlier as if you were using us for market research...which is my game, you're supposed to let me ask the questions for you, at a very high hourly rate! Now you offer payback. Good man. But I don't have any questions unless you can tell me how to get some Harbeths very, very, cheap. Carry on....

Tim

Filterlab
31-05-2008, 12:55
Howard; what criteria is a potential importer judged on before given sole (or any) import rights?

My reason for the question is that when it came to locating my Revel speakers (which I dearly dearly love in every way) I had trouble finding anywhere local that stocked them. In the end I had to go to a dealer (not a good one in my opinion) a long way away and suffer poor customer service. Is reputation not factored in at all?


Cheers! :)

WikiBoy
31-05-2008, 13:51
Hi Howard

What is the point of a distributor and retailer when the customer can buy the product from the manufacturer?

We are in and e-world now.

Snoopdog
31-05-2008, 16:15
Richard,

Without wishing to cramp Howard's style (which he has in spades I might add) I would only say that yes, we do live in an e-world but that is to over simplify the manufacturer/consumer relationship.

My own view, having spent over 30 years and many thousands of pounds as a consumer is that a good retailer is very hard to find. Subjective Audio was my sole supplier of 'toys' during the 80's. A decade in which I bought a Linn/Meridian active system, Audio Research preamp, Oxford Acoustics turntable/SME V/Koetsu mc cartidge from Howard.

You ask what is the point of a dealer? Well Howard was that rare breed of dealer who was always polite, knowledgeable and helpful and IMHO went the extra mile to serve his customers (literally! He turned up at my home one night with a curry and the manufacturers of my turntable for a demonstration!).

This is very rare today and what concerns me is the relationship between the ditributor/ importer and retailer. Yes, you can buy from a manufacturer abroad and maybe make a saving once you have paid shipping, import duty and VAT. The problem arises when you want your product serviced or repaired if it should become faulty. The resultant cost of returning your equipment to the source, especially in the USA may prove prohibitively expensive and eat into the initial saving that you made at the time of purchase.

That's if the manufacturer will deal with you in the first place. Many will not even speak to you as a customer of their products if they have a UK appointed importer/distributor.

My complaint is that our hobby/industry seems over-populated with complete ****holes who have a virtual stranglehold on some very desirable imported exotica.

I can think of one in particular who is very rude, even if you are spending megabucks, and who even his declining number of retailers dread talking to if a problem should occur.

What strikes me as odd is that do the manufacturers abroad realise that their brand name, because it is associated with a particular distributor, is suffering and with it sales of their products in the UK market because of eccentric behaviour?

Central Audio
31-05-2008, 17:02
I can think of one in particular who is very rude, even if you are spending megabucks, and who even his declining number of retailers dread talking to if a problem should occur.


Bloody hell i wonder who that could be:scratch:

Filterlab
31-05-2008, 17:03
:)

Togil
31-05-2008, 17:05
It's particularly annoying when the distributor is sole distributor for the whole of Europe !

PS Snoopdog I agree with everything you say about Howard

WikiBoy
31-05-2008, 17:12
Richard,

Without wishing to cramp Howard's style (which he has in spades I might add) I would only say that yes, we do live in an e-world but that is to over simplify the manufacturer/consumer relationship.

My own view, having spent over 30 years and many thousands of pounds as a consumer is that a good retailer is very hard to find. Subjective Audio was my sole supplier of 'toys' during the 80's. A decade in which I bought a Linn/Meridian active system, Audio Research preamp, Oxford Acoustics turntable/SME V/Koetsu mc cartidge from Howard.

You ask what is the point of a dealer? Well Howard was that rare breed of dealer who was always polite, knowledgeable and helpful and IMHO went the extra mile to serve his customers (literally! He turned up at my home one night with a curry and the manufacturers of my turntable for a demonstration!).

This is very rare today and what concerns me is the relationship between the ditributor/ importer and retailer. Yes, you can buy from a manufacturer abroad and maybe make a saving once you have paid shipping, import duty and VAT. The problem arises when you want your product serviced or repaired if it should become faulty. The resultant cost of returning your equipment to the source, especially in the USA may prove prohibitively expensive and eat into the initial saving that you made at the time of purchase.

That's if the manufacturer will deal with you in the first place. Many will not even speak to you as a customer of their products if they have a UK appointed importer/distributor.

My complaint is that our hobby/industry seems over-populated with complete ****holes who have a virtual stranglehold on some very desirable imported exotica.

I can think of one in particular who is very rude, even if you are spending megabucks, and who even his declining number of retailers dread talking to if a problem should occur.

What strikes me as odd is that do the manufacturers abroad realise that their brand name, because it is associated with a particular distributor, is suffering and with it sales of their products in the UK market because of eccentric behaviour?

The world is changing, it hasn't changed. In times of change there are always Luddites who don't like it, it makes them feel insecure as well as those who have been stitched up and are just beginning to realise, and no one wants to be seen as an idiot so they lock threads and similar behaviour.

I am absolutely sure that Howard did a good job and remembering him back then even though I didn't deal with him he gave priority to the customers choice and needs only partly balanced to his, where as a lot of his competitors were only interested in their own needs. Times are a changing, where does the middle man fit in now as he is just largely an on cost. A classic example is that you can buy a well known and recognised valve amp bought from China and tweaked by one of these middlemen for say £1000 from a retailer. That retailer is taking between £300 and £500 of that money. A very similar valve amp from that same Chinese manufacturer can be bought new on ebay for £300 inc shipping and import duty / vat etc, it can then be passed to one of the many tweakers around like Crofty or Michael here and for a couple of hundred transformed to something very good. So who's the munchkin? This is just an example of the way things are going, and it will change again, do you really think that Chinese company is not looking at what is going on and wont make those changes themselves, so the tweakers have to stay ahead of the game to survive. And some of this is being re-exported at a further mark up, why? because some omnipotent demigod reviewer says he liked it, how bloody daft can you get!

So we are in a transition stage, lots of retailers are still there with their mark ups, most manufacturers will still only supply through retail and distribution. BUT the likes of Linn are now exploring going direct in some markets and with some products and more and more will do it as time goes on. Look at the industry next year after a year of falling house prices and reccession, for certain it wont look the way it does now.

Neil McCauley
31-05-2008, 17:33
Dear all.

Thank you. Most interesting. My computer keyboard is dying. I will get a new one on Sunday. And then I do my best to provide sensible and credible answers.

Sincerely, and gratefully ....

HP

Neil McCauley
01-06-2008, 14:13
Hi Howard

What is the point of a distributor and retailer when the customer can buy the product from the manufacturer?

We are in and e-world now.

Your thought-provoking (thank you) question requires more than a cursory and therefore superficial answer.

I will answer it in 3 sections, taking the perspective of the 3 parties i.e. the end-user, the retailer and the supplier.

However before this I’d like to set a background to this, in 2 parts.

Are the magazines working to the best interests of their readers?

It’s a big question and now is not the time for me to offer an exhaustive answer. I will say this though; I'm told by suppliers who in the past have retained me as a marketing consultant that in the USA, Stereophile magazine will not, repeat NOT agree to reviewing any product that is sold exclusively direct to the end user i.e. bypassing the retailer. The same is certainly true re the state-of-the-art German audio magazines.

Any maker, be they an advertiser or not will not get their products reviewed if they cannot prove they have a retailer network.

My suspicion, and it’s a strong one, is that perhaps every UK audio magazine operates the same embargo. I have no direct proof. But then again, can anyone point to a review in any UK audiophile magazine of any substantial (i.e not overpriced mains blocks and cleaning devices of dubious value] product that's sold direct to the end user?

It may indeed be an e-world but in this respect it is very much not an audiophile e-world.

What about audio shows then?

I know from direct personal experience that the tough and intractable committee that runs the outstanding Munich High end show (the best I have ever attended) would not agree to accepting any exhibitors' money for the 2007 show until and unless they prove they have a minimum of 6 official retailers in Germany. And they require verifiable proof. Okay – moving on …

From the end-user’s perspective …

Other than engaging in the rather fruitless and ultimately unsatisfactory process of comparing item ‘A’ against item ‘B’ in utterly unfamiliar surroundings (i.e. not one’s home), there are less reasons every year. However …

Traditionally (and please bear in mind I’ve been in and out of this industry since 1976) the unpalatable truth is that in private most makers and most distributors of my acquaintance operate with varying degrees of contempt for the end user. There are occasions where that contempt is both overt and public (this has been alluded to elsewhere) and covert – as indeed has been alluded to here, but directed at other makers.

In short, this means that makers, recognising their inability to disguise that contempt, use the retailer as the buffer. And they are prepared to pay handsomely (the dealer’s margin) for that protection.

From the retailer’s perspective.

While it is certainly true that no normal retailer gets rich selling hi-fi, you can if you choose your suppliers carefully, make a reasonable living. You get to play with interesting gear and you meet a surprisingly high proportion of thoroughly decent albeit usually comparatively impoverished people. In the trade we call you ‘end users’ or in my vernacular, ‘civilians’. The makers usually refer to you out there as (quite literally in one instance) “the great unwashed” or ‘The musically ignorant” or more usually – “punters”

In the entire chain, the retailer has to be one helluva diplomat. He/she can get it in the neck for representing a product line that in the incumbent maker’s opinion is too close for comfort. The usual monologue goes something like this:

“How can you stock that shite? If you really think it’s that good, then clearly you have cloth ears – which means that you can’t tell shampoo from champagne – which means we don’t believe you can tell when our gear is set up properly – which means we wonder if we should be dealing with you!”

From the maker’s perspective …

The unpalatable idea of having to deal directly with the "great unwashed” with their “stupid, ignorant questions” is frankly more than some makers and nearly every distributor i have ever come across can stomach. So they have retailers.

Moreover they want the retailer to take ALL the legal risk. The law re selling means that the customer’s contracts (and vice versa) is always with the retailer. This means that however poor the product, unreliable, unsafe and so on, the end user cannot bring an action against the maker while the retailer is still in business. Makers are fully immunised.

Then there is the financial aspect. The maker either offers zero credit to the retailer or a very tight credit limit. Thus their financial risk is minimal. If the end-user defaults, changes their mind, issues a bouncing cheque, pays with dud fivers and/or a stolen card – that’s the retailers problem. Again, the makers is home ‘n dry.

Or put differently, other than the R&D costs and the manufacturing costs, all and I do mean all the conventional legal and financial risk are shouldered by the retailer.

This might surprise you.

It certainly did me. In late 2005 I was approached by one UK maker (circa £9m sales) and one UK distributor who had funded a separate manufacturing company (making damn good value gear) to consult on how an online system could be developed whereby a UK virtual office to take orders from around the world could accept payment in any currency and the order would through interface software I would design, enable the production plants in Taiwan and China to dispatch direct to the end users anywhere in the world.

These 2 potential clients were not my suppliers then, and aren't today.

I constructed the functional specification for the software. We then did a cursory almost back-of-the-envelope set of calculations that indicated the following:

1. The retail price to the end user would drop by at least 46%

2. The margin for the maker would rise by circa 19%

At that point I terminated my involvement in the project because:

1. If despite my expertise and my best efforts I made a mistake, then at least 60 people would have been made redundant in the UK. I didn't want that responsibility, and ..

2. I didn’t like the personalities of the clients I was in discussion with.

The money on offer to me (based on a percentage of the savings I would make for them) was terrific. I thought to myself, I don't need the money nor the hassle I’d have to put up with to get it. I have not regretted that decision for even a moment.

POST SCRIPT at 14.33 GMT


I was asked by phone today if I knew of instances of makers selling direct to the public behind the distributor/retailer network? Curiously, and by coincidence, a private email asked me a similar question but about importers.

In all my years, I have never seen evidence nor indeed heard any credible rumours of a major maker bypassing their network to sell covertly to the end-user. By this I mean substantial items. From time to time, so as not to piss off an end-user, a part might be sent to a competent DIY owner, but that’s pretty much it, in my experience.

In contrast, on a number of occasions in the 1980s and not so long ago, I have seen direct evidence from end-users of having bought equipment covertly from importers/distributors – usually after the official retailer has tried damn hard to make the sale. In my view, the tight-wad and unscrupulous end user is a guilty as the greedy importer.

The way they do this is quite cunning. Let’s say you are an official retailer for brand A from importer XYZ and Mr. Smith wants to buy direct from XYZ and XYZ wants to sell direct to Mr. Smith.

XYZ then talks to another of his/her retailers, but one that is trusted – and does not sell brand A. Mr. Smith is invited to talk to that retailer and XYZ supplies that retailer on a once-only (yeah, right!) basis brand A – even though that retailer is not an official retailer for that brand. That way, XYZ hopes the original realer and indeed all the other retailers of brand A don’t get to hear of it.

Sometimes they do, but proof is hard to come by; and sometimes they don’t.

Additionally, rumours about such activities are, from time to time, very frequent. But then again, without evidence, what’s the value?

Togil
01-06-2008, 14:36
What about audio shows then?

I know from direct personal experience that the tough and intractable committee that runs the outstanding Munich High end show (the best I have ever attended) will not agree to accepting any exhibitors money until and unless they prove they have a minimum of 6 official retailers in Germany. And they require verifiable proof. Okay – moving on …

[B]

This can't be true.

Cessaro, the horn company, have currently NO retailer in Germany and I doubt they will ever have 6 !

Neil McCauley
01-06-2008, 14:45
This can't be true.

Cessaro, the horn company, have currently NO retailer in Germany and I doubt they will ever have 6 !
When I was head of marketing for Podium Sound in 2006/2007 preparing to gain entry into the 2007 Munich show, the documentation from the organisers was totally unambiguous in this respect. Perhaps they relaxed the situation in 2008?

I resigned from Podium shortly before the 2007 Munich show.

Meanwhile your statement, and my italics “I doubt they will ever have 6 !” seems to be more conjecture than fact. I prefer facts.

Mind you, it could just be that the organisers in 2008 were either struck by an uncharacteristic bout of irony, or indeed humour and felt that given the unequalled visual elegance and subtlety of the Cessaro design (surely the most aesthetically pleasing loudspeaker design of recent years?) with a maximum WAV (wife-acceptance-factor) that I guess Allen Boothroyd would give his right arm to come even close too, that an exception could be made? I so hope they did.

http://www.cessaro-horn-acoustics.com/basshorn_p8.html

Incidentally I'm not surprised they don’t have any retailers.

Who could or would be capable of housing these without compromising their WAV by having inferior (by definition, any other) products alongside? My guess is that no retailer could do anything but detract from these design classics and they recognised this unpalatable fact of their unworthiness and acted - in uinison- with good grace, sincerity and above all, integrity. A happy note to end on Hans, don't you think?

WikiBoy
01-06-2008, 15:05
Well ta! for supporting my POV I am not sure if you have read past posts mostly in the thread (amoungst a load of marketing dross) that has just been closed. There are vested interests who see themselves threatened everywhere including here, but this is normal in a climate of change.

Regarding your project, well IMO we already have it - it is called ebay. Any currency, any destination.

Including all that a damn good and intelligent post.

Neil McCauley
01-06-2008, 15:43
Well ta! for supporting my POV I am not sure if you have read past posts mostly in the thread (amoungst a load of marketing dross) that has just been closed. There are vested interests who see themselves threatened everywhere including here, but this is normal in a climate of change.

Including all that a damn good and intelligent post.
I deliberately refrain from looking at previous threads. I don't want to run the risk of having my thoughts distorted for or against an opinion through being exposed to other people’s opinions which have no greater nor lesser value than my own.

Snoopdog
01-06-2008, 17:00
In all my years, I have never seen evidence nor indeed heard any credible rumours of a major maker bypassing their network to sell covertly to the end-user. By this I mean substantial items. From time to time, so as not to piss off an end-user, a part might be sent to a competent DIY owner, but that’s pretty much it, in my experience.

Howard,

I can think of one cable manufacturer who advertises 'Factory Direct' prices directly on their website:-

https://www.virtualdynamics.ca/Cables/

I don't know who their UK official distributor is but they must feel pretty pissed off that any 'punter' can obtain the product online and avoid paying the hideously expensive UK price!

I'm sure MIT have a similar online policy and are represented by Audiobility as the importer/distributor in the UK.

tfarney
01-06-2008, 17:32
Howard, I'm a strategic marketing consultant (I'm sure I just lost any chance of earning Richard's respect!) who works specifically in what is called account planning or brand planning. My role is to endeavor, through research and intuition, to understand what end-users want from categories, products, brands and relationships, and represent that end-user in the process of developing communications programs. Because I'm an independent consultant, I've had the opportunity to work for a wide variety of companies in a wide variety of categories. You might be surprised at how common a thinly-veiled contempt for the customer is.

One might expect that there would be less of this in an area like audiophile products. After, all, they're not mass-market. Most people aren't even aware of them, and when they become aware, they think audiophiles are a bit nuts. The people who purchase high-end audio are, relative to most consumers of most things, affluent, enthusiastic and informed. Shouldn't their suppliers love them for their deep interest (not to mention pocket books) in a hobby that most people think is a huge waste of money? But they don't. They often seem to only appreciate the fans, the uncritical brand loyalists who love their particular products and approach to the dismissal of all else. And this is not unique to audiophile products. In my experience, the more sophisticated the consumer, the less respect they get from the seller (or, to put a finer point on it, the engineer/developer).

People who market toilet paper and soap respect the customer more than those who are selling the sophisticated and expensive.

I don't understand it, but that's not my job. My job is to understand the customer, and tell the client what she (the customer) wants. If, upon hearing it, the client decides the customer is an idiot who shouldn't want that, that's a huge problem. But it's one my discipline cannot address. That's for his therapist.

Tim

WikiBoy
01-06-2008, 20:00
Howard, I'm a strategic marketing consultant (I'm sure I just lost any chance of earning Richard's respect!) who works specifically in what is called account planning or brand planning. My role is to endeavor, through research and intuition, to understand what end-users want from categories, products, brands and relationships, and represent that end-user in the process of developing communications programs. Because I'm an independent consultant, I've had the opportunity to work for a wide variety of companies in a wide variety of categories. You might be surprised at how common a thinly-veiled contempt for the customer is.

One might expect that there would be less of this in an area like audiophile products. After, all, they're not mass-market. Most people aren't even aware of them, and when they become aware, they think audiophiles are a bit nuts. The people who purchase high-end audio are, relative to most consumers of most things, affluent, enthusiastic and informed. Shouldn't their suppliers love them for their deep interest (not to mention pocket books) in a hobby that most people think is a huge waste of money? But they don't. They often seem to only appreciate the fans, the uncritical brand loyalists who love their particular products and approach to the dismissal of all else. And this is not unique to audiophile products. In my experience, the more sophisticated the consumer, the less respect they get from the seller (or, to put a finer point on it, the engineer/developer).

People who market toilet paper and soap respect the customer more than those who are selling the sophisticated and expensive.

I don't understand it, but that's not my job. My job is to understand the customer, and tell the client what she (the customer) wants. If, upon hearing it, the client decides the customer is an idiot who shouldn't want that, that's a huge problem. But it's one my discipline cannot address. That's for his therapist.

Tim

Why should you want it? I am nobody.

What you say is so true and I was just as guilty as others in the past in disrespecting customers. BUT it is hard to respect someone who comes up to you in a show and asks "how many watts is that speaker" - do I tell the truth and tell him his question has no answer or just give him the bullshit. BUT yet again it is not his (or her) fault, he has been fed a line by marketing and magazines and has believed it. So just spouts the meaningless words, meaningless specifications when he could just sit and listen. Well it is better now, people are more educated and aware and I think forums have helped this in their own way. Perhaps I am unusual in that I want to break through all this BS and get to reality which is both boring and complex in equal quantity. Why bother with the complexity when you could just listen and why be bored and boringly spouting meaningless figures in some sort of "mine is bigger than yours" competition.

Anyway forums are full of real customers some of whom are complete idiots and some are genuine seekers and some have good knowledge, just like life in general. BUT no one has the monopoly on truth and an open mind is very important as what you think is the bees knees now may not be! or you may block the next progress by being fixed in an ego groove. This happened with the 60's and 70's specmanship, the 70's and 80's and 90's flat earth and now just as badly as has become the paramount "truth" on this forum - the bottle wallahs. And daft as it may seem the subjective v objective argument is still creating heat - quite daft!

All good and all bad in equal and different measures. All with absolutely nothing to do with music. All about ego and money - ho-hum!

PS a lovely result of this progress can be seen in the techy 1210 awareness suddenly emerging. Even 10 years ago you would have been laughed at to recommend it, now people listen, BUT there is better going for about £50 very occassionally on ebay, don't close your mind. Do you know what the Dunn test of good hi-fi is - pick it up if it wheighs a ton there must be something good in it, because good major components and good construction dictates it - not a hard and fast rule but a good indicator especially with turntables.

Neil McCauley
02-06-2008, 09:46
Good morning all.

Am I correct in thinking that this thread has now passed its sell-by date?

Best

HP

Togil
02-06-2008, 09:55
Maybe the management should consider introducing a rule that a poster should only address matters relating to the original topic

Marco
02-06-2008, 10:08
Good morning all.

Am I correct in thinking that this thread has now passed its sell-by date?


Good morning, Howard.

No, I don't think so. I shall move the non-relevant stuff to a thread of its own, so carry on, sir... :)

Hans, noted!

Marco.

Marco
02-06-2008, 10:13
Done :)

Marco.

tfarney
02-06-2008, 10:50
Maybe the management should consider introducing a rule that a poster should only address matters relating to the original topic

Some of the best internet discussion to be had is the result of thread drift.

Tim

Marco
02-06-2008, 11:02
I completely agree, Tim. However I also think it's important to keep 'serious' discussions on-topic :)

Marco.

Filterlab
02-06-2008, 11:24
Maybe the management should consider introducing a rule that a poster should only address matters relating to the original topic

It's a difficult rule to manage to be honest and the nature of forums is that threads drift in the same way as conversations drift, it's the nature of discussion. However now and again someone will put up a 'back on topic' post, but generally a thread will just run it's natural course.

Don't be afraid to post up in big letters if you feel a thread is going mad though!

tfarney
02-06-2008, 14:28
It wasn't a complaint, by any means. In my short time here, I've found the place to be well-managed and gently, appropriately, moderated. Good crowd, too, even if they are a bit anal about their technology. If we could just get some American craft beers on tap behind the bar, it'd be perfect. It's not that I don't like the English stuff, mind you. The fact is Ive always been struck by the excellent sense of priorities inherent in the relative quality of English food vs. English ale. Nevertheless, I suspect that a Rogue Dead Guy ale would be lovely with the bangers and mash. As lovely as anything could be with the bangers and mash...

Tim

Filterlab
02-06-2008, 15:05
Simplicity is the key to British nosh my friend, none of that quail's eggs malarky or stuff spiced up with shite from some kind of daft plants grown in some frenchman's garden.

Fish 'n chips, bangers 'n mash - and of course that most British of treats; doner kebab. :lol:

Mike
02-06-2008, 15:33
Some of the best internet discussion to be had is the result of thread drift.

Tim


Well said Tim!

In fact this forum could well be renamed 'The Art of Drift' sometimes! :lol:

:eyebrows:

tfarney
02-06-2008, 16:44
Simplicity is the key to British nosh my friend, none of that quail's eggs malarky or stuff spiced up with shite from some kind of daft plants grown in some frenchman's garden.

Fish 'n chips, bangers 'n mash - and of course that most British of treats; doner kebab. :lol:

My point, exactly. And your ales and stouts are as complex as the Frenchman's wine. Still, given some night vision goggles, you'll see me leaping back over that Frenchman's garden wall, stolen daft plants in hand.

ON EDIT: It appears that we are drifting again....Mod!...oh, wait a minute...I'm the only one here who is not a mod. Never mind.

Tim

Mike
02-06-2008, 16:52
Still, given some night vision goggles, you'll see me leaping back over that Frenchman's garden wall, stolen daft plants in hand.

Don't bother.... I've already 'liberated' them!

:eyebrows:

Neil McCauley
14-07-2008, 18:02
Howard; what criteria is a potential importer judged on before given sole (or any) import rights? Is reputation not factored in at all?


Cheers! :)
Generally speaking, and more frequent than you'd imagine ........

First, if they are willing to pay in advance. Then ... are they prepared to purchase in bulk? Then ..... are they prepared to fund all the advertising, marketing and promotion?

Then ...... they make it clear that they don't want bright ideas, or any ideas at all from the importer and certainly none from the UK retailers. Market feedback from the UK is in their view irrelevant and therefore unwelcome. UK retailers are I guess in many cases looked at with distain, if not outright contempt. As with so many of these things, the US way is (they state or imply) the best. They do it bigger and better - always - and of course as we have come to expect, they are infallible. The default position regarding product unreliability is that it's the customer 'screwing up'.

Moreover, if you really want to succeed as an importer, it seems to me that you must be prepared - on demand - to demonstrate how grateful you are in that they are even prepared to built 230v versions. Usually this requires no more than a deferential bow, or not complaining that you have only received a partial shipment even though as the importer you paid up front weeks back.

The reward of course is that as the importer, you are under no obligation (moral, ethical or financial) to reduce your already massive profit when the exchange rate swings in the UK’s favour.

Having sat in on a few of these, please note that quality of service to the end user and their indirect customer (the hapless and usually spineless UK retailer) does not, despite the weasel words to the contrary, usually figure in their thinking. US makers, the ones that have survived and thrived are in the main run by sharp-suited management accountants. Their rationale is simple in that if 'it' can't be measured, or they think 'it' is irrelevant (where 'it' is customer satisfaction in the UK) then it has no value. None at all. Money is the only thing that really really counts. "Shift the damn product buddy - or we'll find someone else that will. Got it?" That last question is I know from direct personal experience over many years not, repeat not an invitation to answer. Most US audiophile companies do not understand irony - so they hate it. If they do understand irony, they still hate it - only even more!

You don't engage in a dialogue with these guys. You withstand their monologue.

The majority of the rest is just wise-arse speak and nothing more.

With the Japanese makers, or some of them at least, if you ask a question they don't like (which is pretty much anything other than "Can I order more, more MORE) they often claim not to understand English (really, I have had this) or they claim "difficulty due to cultural issues Howard san."



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