System Help

[mattmerr]

Hello everyone,

This is my current system,
Apple Lossless files with iTunes 9
PowerMac G5
M-Audio Audiophile 2496 Soundcard
Arcam A65 plus Amp
B&W 602.5 SE Speakers

I’m far from happy with the way it sounds, its flat and bland, I hate to use the iTunes Equalizer and even though the demo of Pure Vinyl and Amarra, both improved the sound tremendously I would rather keep the signal as clean as possible without internal processing.

My question, that I hope someone can answer is, would a better option be to use a DAC between the Mac and Amp, I have looked at the Caiman and DACMagic, from what I read the DACMagic is preferred but i like the technical specs or the Caiman more.

Does anyone have any experience with either of these DAC or can recommend another, or have any other ideas to make my system sing and not sound more like a Roberts Radio, my budget is around £1000.

Thanks,

[DSJR]

The 2496 is supposed to be a superb DAC. I have one installed but haven't used it in anger yet.. What is Amarra doing to improve the sound? Digital files are digital files when all's said and done, but you could try a Caiman or MF V-DAC..

The A65 could be usefully improved though, the 602's are hardly state of the art (although funky) and you look to be a perfect candidate for AVI ADM9.1's, which in this case could have been tailor made for you....

P.S. Make sure you have the 2496 and G5 configured correctly (cannot help here).

[John]

I think the Dac should cure a lot of the issues
I often use Itunes to play music and get good results from it
Make sure your volume is on maximum in Itunes this can really effect sound quality and if recording record at the highest bit rate you can

[The Vinyl Adventure]

Don't know the dac majik, I have a caiman and a v-dac... The caiman wins in the usefulness (built in headphone amp and preamp if you want to use them) and overall sound quality stakes.
The vdac sounds quite nice with quite an alluring sound, I use it in my office system but couldn't use it in my main system as I don't think it sounds "real" like the caiman does .. Th caiman now comes with a better power supply that then one I have too... I'd go for that if i were you as it gives you the chace to experiment with power amps, if
you trawl through the endless Beresford threads no end of people have had loads of succes useing caimans etc as pre amps to the power amps in nad amps and the like with big jumps in sq!
At the end of the day though, dacs are dacs they are different but if your system is dull I'd probably look at a different part of it (caiman and a power amp is an option) daves beloved avi's could be an option, but basically relive you of any kinda upgreade path (fine if you like em) or just some different speakers?

[The Vinyl Adventure]

oops, how to confuse a man by Hamish after john... I have no clue about macs :)
... Dacs are dacs... I'm begining to sound like dimitri ... If the 2496 dac is good in the mac as dave says... I'd still point the finger else where... Just my disolutioned with dacs atitude though :)
(don't let me put you off a caiman like I said there's more to it than just a dac)

[John]

oops, how to confuse a man by Hamish after john... I have no clue about macs :)
... Dacs are dacs... I'm begining to sound like dimitri ... If the 2496 dac is good in the mac as dave says... I'd still point the finger else where... Just my disolutioned with dacs atitude though :)
(don't let me put you off a caiman like I said there's more to it than just a dac)
:)

[Codifus]

Hello everyone,

This is my current system,
Apple Lossless files with iTunes 9
PowerMac G5
M-Audio Audiophile 2496 Soundcard
Arcam A65 plus Amp
B&W 602.5 SE Speakers

I’m far from happy with the way it sounds, its flat and bland, I hate to use the iTunes Equalizer and even though the demo of Pure Vinyl and Amarra, both improved the sound tremendously I would rather keep the signal as clean as possible without internal processing.

My question, that I hope someone can answer is, would a better option be to use a DAC between the Mac and Amp, I have looked at the Caiman and DACMagic, from what I read the DACMagic is preferred but i like the technical specs or the Caiman more.

Does anyone have any experience with either of these DAC or can recommend another, or have any other ideas to make my system sing and not sound more like a Roberts Radio, my budget is around £1000.

Thanks,

Oh this is too easy:) In this setup that I am suggesting, you would be using the Caiman as a pre-amplifier to drive the amp more or less directly.

Get the Caiman - 190 pounds.
Buy a decent toslink cable, like this one;

http://www.beresford.me/PP/TOSLINK_CABLE_XQ_.html

Get an inexepensive power amp, like my Behringer EP2000, 150 pounds.

Lastly, get a line converter like the s-convert to bump up the Caiman's consumer level output to match the Behringer's pro-level inputs; 40 pounds;

http://www.samsontech.com/products/productpage.cfm?prodID=1699

Here's the list summarized;

Caimain - 190 pounds
Toslink cable - 20 pounds
S-Convert - 40 pounds
Behringer EP2000 - 160 pounds

Total spent: Approximately 420 pounds. Less than half your budget.

3 caveats;

1. The PowerMac G5's optical output is limited to 48Khz, so only bit perfect 44.1/16 is possible to the Caimain optically. Your soundcard may have better options to take full advantange of the Caiman's 24/96 capability.

2. The Behringer has an incredibly noisy original fan. You would have to open it up to replace it with a quieter fan. This activity, of course, would potentially void your warranty. But then, where else can you get 1000 watts per channel of true hifi audio quality power for less than 200 pounds? The Behringer EP1500, 2000, 2500 and 4000 models all have the same chassis. Details of changing the 2500's fan is here;

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45137&highlight=behringer+fan+mod

I used these very same instructions to change my 2000's fan.

3. Since the Caiman IS the pre-amp, the only inputs you can use are the ones going ito the Caimain. No analog inputs and no remote. The sound is hard to beat.


Last, and probably the most important part, set the gains to your amp properly. This is how I did it;


Set the gains on your amp to zero, or minimum.
DISCONNECT THE SPEAKERS!! The test signal can actually destroy corssover and/or mid-range or tweeter.
Itunes is set to bit perfect mode. No EQ. Volume at max, 100 percent or 1.
on my Digital audio workstation, I recorded a 1Khz sine wave at 0 db for 10 minutes. If you don't have a DAW I can send you the file if you'de like.
Playback that test signal in iTunes and set the gains on the Behringer to the point that the clip (RED LEDs) just start to flicker.
Once you've set the gains, delete that file from your itunes library. You don't want to leave it there and one day while on random, iTunes plays that file. Can you say "Ouch!":doh:
DONE.

Connect your speakers and enjoy.

When I set my gain by ear, I had set the Behringer to 12 oclock. However, after using this method, I had to set the gain to 9 oclock!!

My system sounds so good now I can't believe it, and I only have a lowly G4 running at a "blazing 733 mhz" running iTunes 7:)

[mattmerr]

Thank you all

@Dave R, Yes the 2496 is great but its only 24-bit/96kHz, maybe an upgrade to the higher 192 Soundcard which is 24-bit/192kHz audio would be a better option. That Amarra software is supposed to make the signal from iTunes more Audiophile, it does sound sweeter, but I’m a purist and that is just internal processing, i want to maintain a clear signal, I even bypass the tone controls on the A65.

I looked at the AVI’s but i don’t think they will have adequate bass output, I don’t want to move from floor-standers and an external Subwoofer may be OK for Home Cinema but i don’t consider it Hi-Fi.

@Hamish, Maybe you are right, a speaker upgrade might be the answer, I was under the impression that the B&Ws were pretty Hi-Fi but now I’m not so sure, the midrange it fantastic, just too much off it. Any suggestions of a real class pair of 3-way floorstanders?

@Codifus, Woah, lol, thats big steps, but interesting I’ll certainly be looking into this, maybe with a better Soundcard with xlr to cut out the S-convert. BTW I still have my first mac 733 mhz G4 AV, nothing lowly about those workhorses.

[The Vinyl Adventure]

I have been looking at ipl kit speakers

http://www.iplacoustics.co.uk/ipl_acoustics_____transmission_l.htm

I have some pmc transmision line's similar to the ipl's mine are 2 way fb1+ ... If you like speakers capable of deep bass these might work for you - they look to be good value, but having not amy experience of them I can't really comment. Searches on the Internet about prove almost unanimously positive ...
I'm concidering the s2tpl's ...

[John]

Why not go full range plenty of options from Tannoys Golds to Hawthrone Silver Iris and lots more in between will give u really great sounds for very sensiable money If you wish to hear what they can do PM me

[Vincent Kars]

and even though the demo of Pure Vinyl and Amarra, both improved the sound tremendously I would rather keep the signal as clean as possible without internal processing.

There might be a paradox in this.
iTunes re-samples everything to the settings as set in the audio midi panel.
Amarra, PV and PureMusic plays everything at its native sample rate.
Unless your audio matches the settings, iTunes will resample everything so much processing involved.

[mattmerr]

I’m referring to tone/equalization processing rather than sampling rates

[Codifus]

There might be a paradox in this.
iTunes re-samples everything to the settings as set in the audio midi panel.
Amarra, PV and PureMusic plays everything at its native sample rate.
Unless your audio matches the settings, iTunes will resample everything so much processing involved.

I think it's a bit simplistic to say that iTunes resamples everything. Rather, iTunes is understandibly a bit challenging to use bit-perfectly when your music catalog contains files of varying sample rates.

iTunes picks up its deafult sample rate to use from Audi-midi at the time of iTunes launching. So if Audio Midi is set to 44K, launch Itunes and it will play everything at 44K. If Audio Midi is set to 96K, launch Itunes and it will play everything at 96K.

Fortunately for me, all my music files are 44K. I leave audio midi at 44K and ITunes plays all my data bit perfectly.

If my iTunes library contained music of varying sample rates, I would set Audio midi to the highest sample rate, say 96K. That way, iTunes plays 96K files bit-perfectly and 44K files, while not bit perfect, are upsampled by iTunes. I believe that Benchmark's website has outlined this and has gone on to say that the upsampler within iTunes is very good. You have to make sure and avoid any sample rate adjustments from the OS, whose upsampling quality is not that great.

CD

[mattmerr]

So it is better to buy the best internal soundcard you can, so any upsampling will be done with more finesse?

[Codifus]

So it is better to buy the best internal soundcard you can, so any upsampling will be done with more finesse?

Kinfod sortof. iTunes will still be upsampling. With the better soundcard you get potentially higher sample rate output, up to 192 Khz I believe. The real benefit, however, would be the co-axial or optical output on the soundcard. It's been said that the optical output built into the macintosh motherboard is very jittery. A soundcard like the LynxTWO will give you world class digital outputs quality to feed your Caiman/7520.

My airport express is well known to have a jittery optical output yet I am totally loving my setup now so I suggest you try the motherboard 1st to see how you like it. It's free and its right there:)

Definitely get a good optical cable, too. Plastic is fantastic:)

CD