DAC suggestions or solutions

[Colin2040]

Current set up is a Schiit Saga with Prima Luna valve amp. MF cdp which I am going to send off for some servicing and tweaks. Plus an Apple airport and a Technics 1210 tt. What I would like to do is add a DAC one which I can run the Apple to on optical cable and take a coax from the cdp. Don’t need volume control and front controls would be useful. I did think about getting a Peachtree as I had one before and liked it. But also wondered if two units could be connected in line so that if selecting the cdp it goes through the dac without any switching etc. So any suggestions, obviously looking to improve sound quality on the way. Budget say £150 - 200

Colin

[jandl100]

If you are after a clean, clear, detailed sound then a Topping D30 is very hard to beat for that sort of money, imho.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Topping-D30-Decoder-Coaxial-Optical/dp/B01JU9EA2U/ref=pd_lpo_vtph_bs_t_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=TRHYCWK7EMHWMHXH1899

[ReggieB]

I've got a Peachtree DAC-IT (https://www.stereophile.com/content/peachtree-dac149it-da-converter) that I'm not doing anything with. It been superseded in my system by a Bryston DAC. I've been meaning to put it into my study system, but could be persuaded to part with it.

[Colin2040]

Pm with

[Colin2040]

Pm with you Rob and thanks having a look at the topping.

COLIN

[goraman]

If I where looking for a new DAC it would be a Border patrol SE.

http://www.borderpatrol.net/DAC.htm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luzW78dp9DY

[Colin2040]

Yes very nice and a good choice but unfortunately just outside my budget.

Colin

[Bencat]

I think much depends on your view if DAC's can change the sound or not . For many if a DAC measures well then it will sound identical to any other DAC with similar measurements. My view is that this is not always the case . I seem to have accumulated a small nest of DACS with at least two full sets of Perpetual Technology PA-1 / PA-3 units , A Metrum Quad DAC with octave Power Supply , Ah-me DAC01 , Cambridge Dacmagic mk 11 (original early eighties full size unit .

In my view they all sound different and I like all of them for various reasons . However with the current configurations I now have in my main and spare room systems they are all redundant and currently live in a large wooden chest in my spare room . I should I suppose get the listed and sold but to many other things to do at the moment .

Colin I am based in Liverpool if you are anywhere near drop me a PM as I would be more than happy to left you borrow any of these units so you can just hear what a DAC can do as you want . They may not be your final solution but it would at least let you try out and see if the configuration you are looking for works.

Sorry Colin just looked at your location and you are not at all close to Liverpool . I do however drive up for a break in Dornack to see friends so if you are interested I can let you know next time I am driving up and we could meet .

[Colin2040]

Thanks Andrew appreciate the offer, I have found in the past that the DACs I have preferred have the sabre chip,it may be a coincidence who knows hence the Peachtree. The Topping is of interest and wondered if anyone has experience of the DACMagic 100?. I am similar in that I have never been particularly bothered about make more sound.
Colin

[goraman]

I have gone through a few Dac's and have discovered a few things in the process, the biggest lesson I got was with a very affordable Little Dot DAC 1 from China, You could switch sample rates and had a choice of sharp or smooth in the digital filter , yes, you could actually switch between 2 options for final filtering! as well as select the bit rate.
I learned a lot with that Dac and found the actual chip is not nearly as important as everything else around it and coming after it.
And that more restitution is not always more enjoyable to listen to, Sometimes to move forward you have to take a step back and this is the hardest thing for an Audiophile to do!
Lets face it if we didn't love the equipment we would not be on this forum,right...
Sometimes we end up with a final result so sharply detailed that you can't play a lot of your favorite CD's because they get picked apart and dissected by an over resolving system and in the end it's just not musical anymore.
You reach a point where if it is not a perfect recording it sounds like crap, now all you can listen to is a few Chesky CD's over and over while the music you want to hear sounds like crap after all the money you put out on the latest Dac that won the arms race of the year for the best specs. Some times less is more, and that goes against everything we have heard from nearly every hifi guru in every hifi magazine and our own human nature.

I am not saying go cheap but what I am saying is forget specs and just listen to several CD's before making up your mind ,forget trying to crawl up into a certain singer from Fleetwood Macs deviated septum when she sings and just listen to the song and if you start to feel goose bumps and your foot starts to tap, thats your DAC. Everything else is Bullshit.

The DAC I have now was reasonably priced and it came after the Little Dot 1 , I have the 1st edition Jolida FX Glass Tube DAC . It is nothing remarkable and dose not use a popular chip 1793 TI it can sample16,20 and up to 24 bits at 192 Hz. It dose use very good capacitors and ceramic resistors. It 's output stage is 2 x 12AX7 Tunsol Golds right now, It has slightly less pronounced midrange than with Genalex Gold Lion B57's but the Tungsols do a better job at dynamics and gets the toes tapping and like I said before if the music dose not move you in a good way and keep you listening, something is wrong in your lash up.
The jolida was near $400.00 new and if you find one used it is a very musical option, I may at some point spring for the Boarder patrol se, but I am hesitate to mess up what is working very well.
The thing I don't like is it is 8x over sampling , I would prefer 1x.

[jandl100]

and wondered if anyone has experience of the DACMagic 100?.

Yes, I was really disappointed by it.
Opaque, slow and low rez compared to the Topping or any of the many good DACs that have passed through my system.
Not recommended at all, sadly.

[Stryder5]

+1^^

[Colin2040]

Thanks I will pass on that one

[struth]

Still prefer my xs dac with a good valve in. For money it's hard to beat. The dac in the vena isn't too shabby either. I use both

[goraman]

Colin,
Try not to buy something that can sound nearly as different in your system as headphones or speakers on a recommendation, try to actually hear the Dac you are thinking about as they can all sound very different from one another.
And what you like may not be the same as someone else. The Little Dot example I gave , just switching from one digital filter to another really made a huge difference coming from the same Dac.
Sharp was very textured ,etched in detail,leaner sounding and genital was far more musical and full bodied.

https://www.shenzhenaudio.com/little-dot-dac-i-dac-1-digital-to-analog-converter-dac.html

A DAC makes a world of difference so try to hear what you are getting over several CD's.

[Sherwood]

Colin,
Try not to buy something that can sound nearly as different in your system as headphones or speakers on a recommendation, try to actually hear the Dac you are thinking about as they can all sound very different from one another.
And what you like may not be the same as someone else. The Little Dot example I gave , just switching from one digital filter to another really made a huge difference coming from the same Dac.
Sharp was very textured ,etched in detail,leaner sounding and genital was far more musical and full bodied.

https://www.shenzhenaudio.com/little-dot-dac-i-dac-1-digital-to-analog-converter-dac.html

A DAC makes a world of difference so try to hear what you are getting over several CD's.

I'm guessing the genital setting sounded a lot more ballsy! :rolleyes:

[goraman]

I'm guessing the genital setting sounded a lot more ballsy! :rolleyes:

Not so much ballsy but soulful, well maybe but the sharp option was just thin,anemic sounding .
The guy I sold it to just kept switching back and forth amazed at how different the same chip set could sound.
That is when I learned it is not the chip but how it is used in the over all build that matters more.
It's not a super expensive DAC $200.00 range new find a used one and see for your self , you'll have a pretty good DAC and get a very good perspective for your money .
If I did not like the Jolida better compared side by side both in the showroom and at home on my own system it would still be here . It was very ,very good for the price I paid.
Better than the DAC in my Music Hall CD 25,2.
Ever switch a tube amplifier between Triode and Ultra-liner . You will hear a radical difference coming from the same amp. Like that.
I leave my amp in Triode.

[jandl100]

One advantage of buying the Topping new from Amazon is you can return it if you aren't impressed.

The Xiang Sheng that Grant recommends is excellent [although I do prefer the Topping a little] but there have been reliability issues with them. I have had 2 partially fail and other folks have had problems.

I've had the Jolida as well, it was 'OK' but I can't say it was much more than that, imo. Much more transparency is to be had.

But as Jeff says, it all depends what sort of sound you are after.

[Stryder5]

Not so much ballsy but soulful, well maybe but the sharp option was just thin,anemic sounding .
The guy I sold it to just kept switching back and forth amazed at how different the same chip set could sound.
That is when I learned it is not the chip but how it is used in the over all build that matters more.
It's not a super expensive DAC $200.00 range new find a used one and see for your self , you'll have a pretty good DAC and get a very good perspective for your money .
If I did not like the Jolida better compared side by side both in the showroom and at home on my own system it would still be here . It was very ,very good for the price I paid.
Better than the DAC in my Music Hall CD 25,2.
Ever switch a tube amplifier between Triode and Ultra-liner . You will hear a radical difference coming from the same amp. Like that.
I leave my amp in Triode.

I guess that went "whoosh".... Lol

[Sherwood]

I guess that went "whoosh".... Lol

Definitely! :scratch:

[Stryder5]

One advantage of buying the Topping new from Amazon is you can return it if you aren't impressed.

The Xiang Sheng that Grant recommends is excellent [although I do prefer the Topping a little] but there have been reliability issues with them. I have had 2 partially fail and other folks have had problems.

I've had the Jolida as well, it was 'OK' but I can't say it was much more than that, imo. Much more transparency is to be had.

But as Jeff says, it all depends what sort of sound you are after.

I agree with Jerry about the Topping, if you buy it and don't like it return it.

Nothing to loose, and you get to hear it in your own system.

I still have my Jolida FX Glass DAC MkI and find it very good. Tube rolling has been fun, Tung Sol in my system sounded a bit dull, Siemens, Telefunken, Harma 7025 Cryo, Sovtek Long Plates tried, but by far the best were some NOS 80's Chinese military valves, still in place.

Gary

[Colin2040]

Appreciate the input hadn’t thought about little dot at all so will have a look into them. I did think about the Xs DAC but I really don’t need volume or headphone jack but it’s still on the list.

Colin

[struth]

Appreciate the input hadn’t thought about little dot at all so will have a look into them. I did think about the Xs DAC but I really don’t need volume or headphone jack but it’s still on the list.

Colin

vol is only for the headphone really, although it can be put into the circuit to become a pre if you wish quite easily. sound is better with it out of circuit tho.
Sound with its original chinese valve isnt nearly as good as a decent nos one, WE ones from the USA are the best but not cheap.

[JohnG]

There is such a broad interest in DAC's, and the affordability and Choices is vast.
It would be great if sometime during 2019, a Bake Off/ Comparison event was put on.
I would happily take on the journey to actively support the day, as well as
enter a DAC.

[goraman]

Appreciate the input hadn’t thought about little dot at all so will have a look into them. I did think about the Xs DAC but I really don’t need volume or headphone jack but it’s still on the list.

Colin

You are looking at the little dot dac 2 with headphone amp , look at the Dac 1 . https://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/little_dot_e.html

[goraman]

I agree with Jerry about the Topping, if you buy it and don't like it return it.

Nothing to loose, and you get to hear it in your own system.

I still have my Jolida FX Glass DAC MkI and find it very good. Tube rolling has been fun, Tung Sol in my system sounded a bit dull, Siemens, Telefunken, Harma 7025 Cryo, Sovtek Long Plates tried, but by far the best were some NOS 80's Chinese military valves, still in place.

Gary

Can you expand on the Chinese military valves maybe even a picture if possible. I would love to try a pair if I can find them.

[Stryder5]

Can you expand on the Chinese military valves maybe even a picture if possible. I would love to try a pair if I can find them.

I will take photo tomorrow, and find the spec. if I can, they were bought from Watford Valves in UK, but I don't see them there any more, they may have been a one time offer.

The Harma 7025 Cryo were good too.

Hope I can help.

Gary

[goraman]

Thank you Gary,
I did find a big difference between the stock re issue tung sols and the re issue tung sol golds I got from upscale audio.
I got there platinum grade they are carefully matched and hand selected after burn in for sonics.
The upgrade version of that tube sounds similar but just has more bloom in the top end, it is more pleasant to listen to.

I would have to agree with this evaluation to a degree of Tungsols and how they are different, but for example the Genulex GL B59 is midrange forward, the TS Gold is just slightly recessed making vocals not so much in your face.

[goraman]

worth a look, http://www.promitheusaudio.com/tubedac.html

[Hypnotist]

Try one of Stans SEG Dacs I updated mine and now its burnt in its a brilliant dac for the money:D

[Colin2040]

It was one I was considering I had a loan of one before and liked it ,probably about two years ago. I have had a look at the Toppings and was looking at the suggested D30 but also the D10 . I am trying to keep it simple so that if I switch from cd to Apple it is connected I don’t need to switch source. Partly because other family members use the main system and having to switch source on a DAC may be shall we say confusing? The D10 has a usb power supply so I would need to resolve that.
I have been surprised by the choice out there at reasonable prices. The D10 uses the sabre chip as well. But I am appreciating th3 input

Colin

[Stryder5]

Can you expand on the Chinese military valves maybe even a picture if possible. I would love to try a pair if I can find them.

I'll reply to goraman by pm, don't want to hi jack this post.

Gary

[hifinutt]

I agree with Jerry about the Topping, if you buy it and don't like it return it.

Nothing to loose, and you get to hear it in your own system.

I still have my Jolida FX Glass DAC MkI and find it very good. Tube rolling has been fun, Tung Sol in my system sounded a bit dull, Siemens, Telefunken, Harma 7025 Cryo, Sovtek Long Plates tried, but by far the best were some NOS 80's Chinese military valves, still in place.

Gary

i was listening to a lovely jolida dac with some harbs last week , shame they are no longer widely available

[Stryder5]

i was listening to a lovely jolida dac with some harbs last week , shame they are no longer widely available

I did make a mistake in a previous post, mine is the Mk II with the Clarity caps mod. :)

Gary

[ReggieB]

Colin - your Private Message area seems to be full. So ...

Having finally dug out my Peachtree DAC-IT, I've decided to sell it - it's a waste to keep such a lovely DAC boxed up in a cupboard. Posted in the Private Exhibitions here (https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?62695-FS-Peachtree-DAC-IT&p=1059999#post1059999).

[goraman]

This is a very good shpeal on DAC's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFzjKrM02D4

[Colin2040]

Well I finally went for a Topping D30 although I looked at the D10 and the D50 as well as Little Dot etc. It’s been plugged in and been running this morning. So far I am pleasantly pleased . Definitely a considerable increase in detail , slight improvement in bass. Soundstage I think has a bit of an increase but Wil wait to see how that develops but no downside so far. Thanks for advice but I may buy another in a few months to try one from smsl or anothe4 Topping.

Colin

[meBob]

Hello Colin2040,

I'll second Jandl100 (Jerry) on his comments about the Topping D30, It's a massive bargain and an excellent all round performer.

[montesquieu]

Just to add I went looking for a Topping D30 while my AN DAC is off for an upgrade and ended up with its (relatively) bigger brother, the D50.

I've been genuinely shocked at how good it is. Not how good it is 'for the money'. I mean 'how good it is' period. Genuinely astonishing from something so small. And that's running it from an old iPhone power supply. I keep pondering spending money on a better PSU but then I think - why bother?

The D50 is very well put together and has more features and functions than the D30 though my guess is there probably isn't much if anything between them in the sound.

[julesd68]

From what I have read the D50 has a slightly more 'upfront' sound signature compared to the D30.

I've had my D30 for about four months now and am still amazed at its quality. Not had the chance to compare it to more expensive DACs but am interested to do that soon.

[montesquieu]

From what I have read the D50 has a slightly more 'upfront' sound signature compared to the D30.

I've had my D30 for about four months now and am still amazed at its quality. Not had the chance to compare it to more expensive DACs but am interested to do that soon.

It's very balanced on my setup. Anything less forward would be a bit sleepy I think. Perhaps down to partnering gear.

[julesd68]

It's very balanced on my setup. Anything less forward would be a bit sleepy I think. Perhaps down to partnering gear.

I'm very interested in the new D70 but it hasn't even made it onto the Topping website yet, so not sure when it is officially released.

[Ceburaska]

Just to add I went looking for a Topping D30 while my AN DAC is off for an upgrade and ended up with its (relatively) bigger brother, the D50.

I've been genuinely shocked at how good it is. Not how good it is 'for the money'. I mean 'how good it is' period. Genuinely astonishing from something so small. And that's running it from an old iPhone power supply. I keep pondering spending money on a better PSU but then I think - why bother?

The D50 is very well put together and has more features and functions than the D30 though my guess is there probably isn't much if anything between them in the sound.

That’s quite amusing Tom, as the D50 is the dac I’d just moved to when we met.
I find it absolutely fine, and I’ve previously only had DACs costing 10 times as much, or more.
The size is very handy too as I can squeeze it in on my shelf.
The only slight negative is the lack of remote control

[montesquieu]

The only slight negative is the lack of remote control

Agreed the variable volume is really handy but would be ideal if it could be adjusted remotely.