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View Full Version : New arrivals: Silvercore 833C monoblocks ... not your typical SET



montesquieu
05-02-2019, 23:16
https://i.imgur.com/682mJCS.jpg

I’ve had a few people query by PM what I have coming to replace my Radford STA100, so beautifully restored last summer by Will of Radford Revival

Well its replacement has actually been here for about three weeks, during which time I’ve done many many swaps back and forth, just to make sure I was doing the right thing.

Enter a pair of Silvercore 833c monoblocks … 20w single ended triodes.

These are not at all what I would have expected to be running with my Tannoys and it just shows how a genuine curve ball can hit you sometime that confounds all expectations and prejudices acquired through past experience. I had had a long term loan of the Thöress Phono Enhancer. This is a very decent phono stage, and indeed is probably the coolest looking phono stage on the planet, but it's not one that fit easily with my bagful of stereo and mono cartridges on swappable headshells, or my two recently acquired multi-adjustable Miyajima ETR-Mono and ETR-Stereo SUTs. It's raison d'etre is flexibility ... but unfortunately not the flexibility I need for my own kind of listening.

When Greg of G-Point came to collect, he dropped off for trial a couple of strange monoblocks that looked a bit like spare parts from a TV transmitter, or a Dr Who set. On plugging them in I half expected my phone to start showing the Test Card. The 833 valve they use is over 9 inches tall, and over 10 inches when the connectors are plugged into the top. But the sound was even more of a shock than the looks. I’ve written before about how Tannoys and single ended amps rarely go together, and opined that it had something to with input impedance/damping factor, which seems to be the general consensus.

Well, here was a SET amp that approached the depth and authority of the Radford in the bass - while at the same time exhibiting the flow and ambience that draws many to live with inevitable compromises single ended amps throw up on most normal speakers. Presentation was very different to the Radford - detail was still there, but a little more diffuse, compared to the Radford’s front seat, pin-point positioning. This was more of a mid hall feel - though I can’t say the soundstage was any narrower, the opposite in many ways as the sound bloomed and extended in a wonderfully free way

For pop, rock and other beat-driven music, or a diet of Wagner or Bruckner symphonies, you’d probably choose the Radford. Possibly certain jazz genres too depending on your specific taste. But on my diet of Lieder, baroque and classical chamber music, Renaissance vocal, solo lute and harpsichord, I was smitten. It even makes a decent fist of classical orchestral, due to its way with flow. At first I resisted. But as a couple of weeks progressed I began to consider seriously that an unexpected, unplanned change might be about to happen. The Radford is a fabulous amp, and after Will’s rebuild, an heirloom quality piece. But I was hearing things anew.

There's not much to be read about these amps in English, even though they've been around since 2013. Digging into the technical specs from pulling up as many of the German reviews and comments as I could find (thank you Google translate) I could see that these were fairly unusual in their construction. The 833 valve had been used previously by Wavac and run in full Class A1, delivering 150w per monoblock of single ended power, consuming 800w each (though this is still modest compared to the valve's original function as a radio transmitter valve, where it outputs up to 2.700w, glows bright red and gets thrown in the bin after a few hundred hours). Nevertheless this still requires a power supply of enormous capacity and complexity, and a resulting price tag of $350,000 a pair (though there is a budget version for $70,000 ...).

Christof Kraus, the engineer behind Silvercore (which I had only heard of as the maker of highly-regarded step-up transformers) took some quite different design decisions. He runs the 833 tube modestly in Class A2, delivering 20w of SET output power, consuming 100w per monoblock. That’s still 10A at the rewired 10V, so to deliver that, he used two 5V switching power supplies, run in series. Obviously switching power needs to be implemented sensitively, but the upshot is a powerful SET amp with a smart but relatively simple, high-capacity power supply that’s essentially silent when not playing music - a rarity in any valve amp let alone a beefy one. To get that bass control, it uses feedback - how much is not clear but it’s clearly used intelligently and does no harm to the amplifiers’s feeling of flow or timing. To get away with a single gain stage, it uses a 1:5 step-up in the input stage (silver wound, in house) and the output transformers are also custom wound in-house. And they are hefty things at 30kg each.

Balanced input only - which is no problem for my EAR 912 - the 833 valve is driven by a pair of EL34 pentodes. An unusual choice for a SET amp driver stage, but highly effective. I’m informed that much fun can be had rolling these with Mullards, Telefunkens etc but my monoblocks came with a quad of TAD EL34s which are the only ones I’ve tried so far. The 833 output valves are RCA NOS - American-made RCA and GE valves seem to be still available, but there are also plentiful supplies of Chinese and Russian made tubes. It seems the transmitters that consume these are still widely used especially in China - Chinese tubes can be had on eBay from £100 or so.

Anyway .. the Radford is an amp that commands attention, unburstable in big orchestral tuttis where it just seems to swell forever without distorting. It’s an utterly class act. The Silvercore 833C's seem to be drawing me in in a different way ... more enveloping, beguiling … it’s certainly a change that’s taking some time to get used to.

I'm sure there will be moments, and specific music, where I will miss the Radford, but it's also interesting to be heading off into uncharted territory, after more than 10 years of feeling constrained essentially to beam pentode or tetrode amps in order to get the best out of the Tannoys - so many single ended amps having disappointed along the way.

Bigman80
05-02-2019, 23:38
It's certainly a thing of beauty. I love the looks Tom.

smangus
05-02-2019, 23:48
Wow you bought a lighthouse!!

Sure you'll enjoy them. :)

Jimbo
06-02-2019, 07:12
Beautiful design.

Audio Al
06-02-2019, 07:26
Wow they look great , all you need is one of these as a power switch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpPMqUBKemo

brian2957
06-02-2019, 07:27
Stunning . Glad you've found what you've been looking for Tom :)

Firebottle
06-02-2019, 08:27
.... a couple of strange monoblocks that looked a bit like spare parts from a TV transmitter, or a Dr Who set. On plugging them in I half expected my phone to start showing the Test Card.

Love that description Tom, great find.

Did hearing 6W into your Tannoys from my OTL amp help sway you?
:)

jostber
06-02-2019, 08:34
This is looking like a beauty. Would love to hear it as well, very interesting design.

montesquieu
06-02-2019, 08:38
Love that description Tom, great find.

Did hearing 6W into your Tannoys from my OTL amp help sway you?
:)

In a word - yes.

Both in terms of the quality available from not many watts ... and also take fact that there were topologies that I hadn’t really considered. Definitely expanded my mind a bit.

Andy831
06-02-2019, 09:02
An interesting amp for sure Tom.

Jimbo
06-02-2019, 09:03
There is something rather nice about OTLs Alan?:)

Firebottle
06-02-2019, 09:14
It did sound rather good, better than both of us expected at the bottom end.

Bigman80
06-02-2019, 09:21
OTL's are lovely. I can see why it had an effect, Tom.

montesquieu
06-02-2019, 14:57
Really weird a post from Justin seems to have disappeared?

Bigman80
06-02-2019, 14:58
Oh, it has.

struth
06-02-2019, 15:20
he deleted them himself

Bigman80
06-02-2019, 16:11
Oh, strange.

CageyH
06-02-2019, 17:40
Interesting that it has a computer cooling fan visible in the design.
I assume that the valve runs a bit warm then?

montesquieu
06-02-2019, 17:42
Interesting that it has a computer cooling fan visible in the design.
I assume that the valve runs a bit warm then?

It was a few days before I realised they have fans. The fans run slowly and are all but silent, even with the covers off - the power tube doesn't get warm though interestingly the EL34s do.

CageyH
06-02-2019, 17:44
They should be quiet. They are from the German manufacturer “Be Quiet!” who specialise in quiet cooling parts for PCs.

jandl100
06-02-2019, 18:54
Lovely looking amps, Tom.
How about a photo of the whole system?

Very interesting using EL34 as drivers! - must admit I'd be tempted to try some 6CA7 or KT77, would they work in the circuit OK?

User211
06-02-2019, 19:55
Really weird a post from Justin seems to have disappeared?Yeah I deleted it when I realised the question I had asked was answered by the original post.

Been talking to Ked. Might see you in a bit if plans work out.

montesquieu
06-02-2019, 20:08
Lovely looking amps, Tom.
How about a photo of the whole system?

Very interesting using EL34 as drivers! - must admit I'd be tempted to try some 6CA7 or KT77, would they work in the circuit OK?

6CA7 is a direct equivalent I think I so should be ok. I asked about 5881 as I have some here but was told EL34 type only which may rule out KT77 - I need to ask.

As luck would have it I’ve just packed up the EAR 912 ... a bulb went (out of four) inthe VU meters and I’ve been told it has to go back for replacement as unit - this was surprising, EAR are very quick and very fairly priced for this sort of thing but still a bit of a pain. I’ll take pics when it’s back though my DAC is also away at the minute for modification.




Been talking to Ked. Might see you in a bit if plans work out.

Cool look forward to it

Vrajbasi
06-02-2019, 21:25
6CA7 is a direct equivalent I think I so should be ok. I asked about 5881 as I have some here but was told EL34 type only which may rule out KT77 - I need to ask.

As luck would have it I’ve just packed up the EAR 912 ... a bulb went (out of four) inthe VU meters and I’ve been told it has to go back for replacement as unit - this was surprising, EAR are very quick and very fairly priced for this sort of thing but still a bit of a pain. I’ll take pics when it’s back though my DAC is also away at the minute for modification.



Cool look forward to it

Congratulations on your purchase I am sure they will give many hours of Joy, I know the amps in question pretty well they are a highly musical amp and actually have a good amount of drive. I found the mullard el34 seemed to suit them best being extremely sweet but seemed to give the amp a great sense of body. I might some spare I could try and dig out for you to try out. I owned the mighty Wavac SH-833 many years back in 2005, long story but managed to get a pair in singapore that were preowned, fine amplifier indeed a bit laid back for my system at the time. I sometimes wish I kept on to them but they were a little complex and had some reliability issues. I really liked the RCA 833 valve very spacious sounding the GE had greta midrange but lacked the slam of the RCA. Congratulations once again seeing them made me smile.

montesquieu
06-02-2019, 21:28
Congratulations on your purchase I am sure they will give many hours of Joy, I know the amps in question pretty well they are a highly musical amp and actually have a good amount of drive. I found the mullard el34 seemed to suit them best being extremely sweet but seemed to give the amp a great sense of body. I might some spare I could try and dig out for you to try out. I owned the mighty Wavac SH-833 many years back in 2005, long story but managed to get a pair in singapore that were preowned, fine amplifier indeed a bit laid back for my system at the time. I sometimes wish I kept on to them but they were a little complex and had some reliability issues. I really liked the RCA 833 valve very spacious sounding the GE had greta midrange but lacked the slam of the RCA. Congratulations once again seeing them made me smile.

Thanks Nari that's appreciated :) I must say it was quite a moment when I first heard them, it really was a surprise.

The Wavac must have been quite something! I've only seen pics but the PSUs are enormous.

Vrajbasi
06-02-2019, 21:46
Thanks Nari that's appreciated :) I must say it was quite a moment when I first heard them, it really was a surprise.

The Wavac must have been quite something! I've only seen pics but the PSUs are enormous.

They are a great amp for the money for sure sound for pound they offer alot, the first generation mullards are best with the metal collor around the base, the brown base ones were a bit lacked bass weight and made the amps a bit too soft for my liking. The wavacs were great in many regards I still remember the midrange being magical, I could never get on with the bass overall and on some material they did not integrate so well. I still wish I had them now, as am sure I could have got them to work if i tried harder. I actually got the Gakuoh to replace them that suited my system at the time. I have to always try and restrict myself as I always end up with multiple amps, pre amps and turntables as each bit of kit has its plus and minuses nothing is perfect but have to always choose the bit of kit that makes you smile at the end of the day.

donmarrese
07-02-2019, 02:12
Great write up...enjoyed that...
Not sure about cooling fan at base, unless the contact base below main valve is susceptible to over heating? i say that cos, as we all know, heat rises, and by the looks of things..there are no air vents at the top of that perspex cage...just a few mil below base...maybe that provides a constant temp throughout the valve..push air up then forcing it through lower vents...I knew that Chianti was dodgy...????

montesquieu
07-02-2019, 02:31
Great write up...enjoyed that...
Not sure about cooling fan at base, unless the contact base below main valve is susceptible to over heating? i say that cos, as we all know, heat rises, and by the looks of things..there are no air vents at the top of that perspex cage...just a few mil below base...maybe that provides a constant temp throughout the valve..push air up then forcing it through lower vents...I knew that Chianti was dodgy...????

Two things really first the big tube really doesn’t get hot if you think it’s consuming/dissipating 100w that’s the same as the old brightest rated lightbulb - and it’s a huge area to dissipate from. Second the cage is open at the back. :)

In all my trawling through the German audio web I didn’t find a single report of overheating - which is about what I’d expect from my own experience. My suspicion is that it’s a bit of belt and braces from their German creator.

donmarrese
07-02-2019, 20:37
Second the cage is open at the back. :).

:drunk:

joolz
11-02-2019, 13:07
Wow, that really is a statement valve ...not envious....at all