Advice on Quad power amps.

[Mikeandvan]

I wish to change my amplification, I have the humble Nait 5 (with extra flatcap power supply!) as my main amp, Ruark Talisman speaker, Pioneer PD 8700 cdp, Graham slee era v gold phono stage. Notts analogue TT. I wish to get rid of the Nait and get something better. I recently borrowed a little known U.S. amp - the Monarchy sm70, tried that with my (now sold) Nakamichi ca-5, it was clearly a lot better than the Nait, but it was so unbearably hard sounding, I knew it wouldn't last - not in my system anyway.
So for whatever reason I've got it into my head that a Quad power amp/pre power/ might be suitable. 606, 909, 405-2 ?? What can I expect? Just want something with real audiophile qualities - something I feel the Nait is missing - I guess it is only an entry level amp, but I'm not even sure going further up the Naim ladder would help. Was thinking 606/909 with some cheap passive pre. If you have any other recommendations please add them. I listen to a lot of Jazz cds at the minute, day and night, I find myself very drawn to Jazz, and think I will be for a good while now. My current set up isn;t too kind to those blaring saxs/trumpets. I think in the long run I might need to change the Ruarks, I think the tweeters underperform. But for now I just want rid of the Nait. Remote control would be nice, but seeing as I'm listening to a lot of cds now, not essential. I will also buy a new dac to help the Pioneer along, something like a Beresford or Raspberry as I hear good things about them.

[Light Dependant Resistor]

I wish to change my amplification, I have the humble Nait 5 (with extra flatcap power supply!) as my main amp, Ruark Talisman speaker, Pioneer PD 8700 cdp, Graham slee era v gold phono stage. Notts analogue TT. I wish to get rid of the Nait and get something better. I recently borrowed a little known U.S. amp - the Monarchy sm70, tried that with my (now sold) Nakamichi ca-5, it was clearly a lot better than the Nait, but it was so unbearably hard sounding, I knew it wouldn't last - not in my system anyway.
So for whatever reason I've got it into my head that a Quad power amp/pre power/ might be suitable. 606, 909, 405-2 ?? What can I expect? Just want something with real audiophile qualities - something I feel the Nait is missing - I guess it is only an entry level amp, but I'm not even sure going further up the Naim ladder would help. Was thinking 606/909 with some cheap passive pre. If you have any other recommendations please add them. I listen to a lot of Jazz cds at the minute, day and night, I find myself very drawn to Jazz, and think I will be for a good while now. My current set up isn;t too kind to those blaring saxs/trumpets. I think in the long run I might need to change the Ruarks, I think the tweeters underperform. But for now I just want rid of the Nait. Remote control would be nice, but seeing as I'm listening to a lot of cds now, not essential. I will also buy a new dac to help the Pioneer along, something like a Beresford or Raspberry as I hear good things about them.

The 606 or 909 or 306 are excellent with passives, due the sensitivity being low. I use a pair of 306's - one per channel, and my own ldr attenuator.
reviewed here: https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/260371-2019-stereocoffee-ldr-preattenuator-kit/
Similarly I listen to lots of jazz. You are on a winner choosing similarly.

[fatmarley]

I use a 306 (dada upgrade) with a cheap Little Bear passive (£25 ebay). It's the easiest amp I've ever worked on. Two screws and you have access to the circuit board, and every component is numbered to match the circuit diagram.

The 306 has tight but deep bass with good punch, nice clean midrange and smooth highs. An absolute bargain at around £200 and it's only a tiny thing too. There's no way I'd ever go back to Naim...

[STD305M]

I wish to change my amplification, I have the humble Nait 5 (with extra flatcap power supply!) as my main amp, Ruark Talisman speaker, Pioneer PD 8700 cdp, Graham slee era v gold phono stage. Notts analogue TT. I wish to get rid of the Nait and get something better. I recently borrowed a little known U.S. amp - the Monarchy sm70, tried that with my (now sold) Nakamichi ca-5, it was clearly a lot better than the Nait, but it was so unbearably hard sounding, I knew it wouldn't last - not in my system anyway.
So for whatever reason I've got it into my head that a Quad power amp/pre power/ might be suitable. 606, 909, 405-2 ?? What can I expect? Just want something with real audiophile qualities - something I feel the Nait is missing - I guess it is only an entry level amp, but I'm not even sure going further up the Naim ladder would help. Was thinking 606/909 with some cheap passive pre. If you have any other recommendations please add them. I listen to a lot of Jazz cds at the minute, day and night, I find myself very drawn to Jazz, and think I will be for a good while now. My current set up isn;t too kind to those blaring saxs/trumpets. I think in the long run I might need to change the Ruarks, I think the tweeters underperform. But for now I just want rid of the Nait. Remote control would be nice, but seeing as I'm listening to a lot of cds now, not essential. I will also buy a new dac to help the Pioneer along, something like a Beresford or Raspberry as I hear good things about them.

Hii Mike
Your giving the Monarchy Amp a bad reputation, the hardness in sound was from the Nakamich, there was no hardness when played
at my house using a stereo coffee passive.
The Nak has a reasonably good phono stage but used as a pre definitely sounds hard especially when you turn the wick up

Steve...

[Macca]

Agree about the Monarchy, I had one here and it is not hard sounding. Quite an impressive amp actually, did not give much away to the Krell KSA50S which is high praise indeed.

Pre-amps can be make or break to a system and not everything works well with everything else (that would make things too easy after all).

[Bigman80]

Agree about the Monarchy, I had one here and it is not hard sounding. Quite an impressive amp actually, did not give much away to the Krell KSA50S which is high praise indeed.

Pre-amps can be make or break to a system and not everything works well with everything else (that would make things too easy after all).It's the one you heard Macca.

The Monarchy is ruthlessly revealing and will show up anything undesirable in the chain.

Tried it with a Passive SA preamp, DCB1 and a Valve pre. Sounded fantastic with them. I can only agree with Steve that the hardness is probably the Nakamichi.

[karma67]

Yep I also agree on the nak, I used Steve’s Monarchy Amp for a while with it and wondered what all the hype was about? Thankfully the Jw kt88 amp was soon back in action.

[Mikeandvan]

I use a 306 (dada upgrade) with a cheap Little Bear passive (£25 ebay). It's the easiest amp I've ever worked on. Two screws and you have access to the circuit board, and every component is numbered to match the circuit diagram.

The 306 has tight but deep bass with good punch, nice clean midrange and smooth highs. An absolute bargain at around £200 and it's only a tiny thing too. There's no way I'd ever go back to Naim...

That sounds like what I'm looking for, till I won't know for sure till I hear one!

[Mikeandvan]

Hii Mike
Your giving the Monarchy Amp a bad reputation, the hardness in sound was from the Nakamich, there was no hardness when played
at my house using a stereo coffee passive.
The Nak has a reasonably good phono stage but used as a pre definitely sounds hard especially when you turn the wick up

Steve...
Hi Steve,
Yes I did say 'in my system', I've read some very good user reviews of the Monarchy.

[Svend N]

Mike, back to your question -- my father-in-law has the 405-2 power amp, paired with a matching preamp. It sounds very good, but I think it needs to be matched with an efficient speaker. In his first setup he ran it with some KEF Ref. 103.2s, in a large room with vaulted ceiling and carpeted floor, and the amp was underpowered and anaemic sounding; rather dull actually. Not a happy combo. Then he got some more efficient Energy floor-standers and the system really came alive. His new listening room is still large, also has vaulted ceiling, but is slightly smaller than previous. The amp sounds punchy, fluid, dynamic...very musical. It has no problem filling the space with music.

Hope this helps...

Svend

PS -- for what it's worth, I now have his KEF 103.2s, paired with a Belles 100W power amp, and those speakers sound fantastic driven by that amp, which tells me they need some ooomph to really make them come alive.

[Mikeandvan]

Now thinking Croft, won't need a service/upgrade unlike old Quads.

[Macca]

More coloured than Quads though.

Seriously, I'd try a 306 with a passive, I reckon that will get you most of the way. You can pick up a near mint 306 practically anywhere, no need to muck about with it.

[Mikeandvan]

More coloured than Quads though.

Seriously, I'd try a 306 with a passive, I reckon that will get you most of the way. You can pick up a near mint 306 practically anywhere, no need to muck about with it.

That sounds pretty inexpensive, worth a try I reckon, then I think I will have to replace my speakers. Jazz must be the most unforgiving music on tweeters.

[Macca]

Mike unless your speakers are broken or faulty they really won't be the issue. They're a decent speaker and jazz is not demanding programme (unless it's fusion or summat). But the usual plinky-plonk stuff is pretty easy on the system.

[struth]

Some jazz highs are a bit on edge. Nature of the instruments tbh

[Jimbo]

Now thinking Croft, won't need a service/upgrade unlike old Quads.

I have had a Quad 405-2 and 606 and they sound veiled and slow compared to the OTL Croft 7 which I have now. I tried them back to back a few years ago and the Croft was so much more transparent.

I used the 606 with a passive for 25 years and it was OK but sounded flat compared to the set up I have now.

[Macca]

Some jazz highs are a bit on edge. Nature of the instruments tbh

Can't say I find that. In fact I never use jazz to test the system since it always sounds pretty good to me. My jazz selection is pretty limited though. Dexter Gordon, Bill Evans, that sort of stuff.

[Bigman80]

Until the Nakamichi Is out of the system as a preamp, it's pointless.

I can't recommend a quad, I did not like the 405 at all.

[Macca]

Until the Nakamichi Is out of the system as a preamp, it's pointless.

I can't recommend a quad, I did not like the 405 at all.

I'm not keen on the 405 either. The 405 doesn't sound like the 303 or 306. Although there a some doing the rounds that have been modified into monoblocks and they are good.

[Bigman80]

I'm not keen on the 405 either. The 405 doesn't sound like the 303 or 306. Although there a some doing the rounds that have been modified into monoblocks and they are good.Fair enough, can't comment on those.

Trust your judgement though.

[Mikeandvan]

Until the Nakamichi Is out of the system as a preamp, it's pointless.

I can't recommend a quad, I did not like the 405 at all.

I sold the Nak, I have a G Slee era V gold which I think is good enough for my vinyl set up, I use a Nagaoka MP150, about as high as I wanna go.

[Bigman80]

I sold the Nak, I have a G Slee era V gold which I think is good enough for my vinyl set up, I use a Nagaoka MP150, about as high as I wanna go.Cool, what Preamp are you using

[Mikeandvan]

Mike unless your speakers are broken or faulty they really won't be the issue. They're a decent speaker and jazz is not demanding programme (unless it's fusion or summat). But the usual plinky-plonk stuff is pretty easy on the system.

Wow, I find the opposite, sax and trumpet can be a bit harsh on my system.

[Mikeandvan]

Cool, what Preamp are you using

At the moment I'm just using a Naim nait 5!

[Bigman80]

At the moment I'm just using a Naim nait 5!Oh lol.

Well, preamp and power to sort out.

[Macca]

I know from experience that a 306 or a 303 with a passive gives a sweet and easy sound. Mike's having issues with stridency and harshness so that should solve it. It doesn't sound like your at the studio console but it doesn't sound pipe n slippers either.


Not that there are not many other ways of skinning the same cat but I just don't reckon Croft is the answer here as Mike uses his CD player a lot and I found the current Croft kit to be suboptimal with digital sources. It partners vinyl superbly well though. Someone told me Glenn Croft doesn't even own any digital kit, no guess as to why it is voiced the way it is then.

[Bigman80]

I know from experience that a 306 or a 303 with a passive gives a sweet and easy sound. Mike's having issues with stridency and harshness so that should solve it. It doesn't sound like your at the studio console but it doesn't sound pipe n slippers either.


Not that there are not many other ways of skinning the same cat but I just don't reckon Croft is the answer here as Mike uses his CD player a lot and I found the current Croft kit to be suboptimal with digital sources. It partners vinyl superbly well though. Someone told me Glenn Croft doesn't even own any digital kit, no guess as to why it is voiced the way it is then.The Quad isn't where id go. Just being honest.

[Mikeandvan]

The Quads are cheap anyway, not much to lose. But I'm open to all possibilities, budget allowing.

[Macca]

The Quad isn't where id go. Just being honest.

Where would you go then? I mean the Monarchy is a very good amp. No question. Really that should do the job with a suitable pre-amp. The speakers and the source are fine. I don't know the Nakamichi pre-amp though but agree that barring faulty speakers it has to be the problem. So keep the Monarchy and get a different pre-amp? Or is the Monarchy gone already?

[Bigman80]

Where would you go then? I mean the Monarchy is a very good amp. No question. Really that should do the job with a suitable pre-amp. The speakers and the source are fine. I don't know the Nakamichi pre-amp though but agree that barring faulty speakers it has to be the problem. So keep the Monarchy and get a different pre-amp.I would go for the Monarchy with a Khozmo passive preamp. Max spend £700ish.

I'd go passive because it's an easier delivery.

If not the Monarchy, I'd go after this.
https://www.dba.dk/effektforstaerker-luxman-a/id-1052304338/

[Mikeandvan]

Where would you go then? I mean the Monarchy is a very good amp. No question. Really that should do the job with a suitable pre-amp. The speakers and the source are fine. I don't know the Nakamichi pre-amp though but agree that barring faulty speakers it has to be the problem. So keep the Monarchy and get a different pre-amp? Or is the Monarchy gone already?

I only borrowed the Monarchy from Steve.

[Bigman80]

Also, don't forget, the Firebottle AIR is possibly in the price range. If he'll make one of course.

[Bigman80]

Ah!

Tom bought an Asian Pass labs amp. That is probably spot on for this.

Can't find a link so maybe tom can chip in?

[Macca]

I only borrowed the Monarchy from Steve.

oh right I missed that bit.

Maybe better to star from scratch. What sort of sound are you looking for? Have you heard any other systems that you thought hit the spot for you that could possibly be copied or emulated? You can get a lot for not a lot these days if you know where you want to go.

[Svend N]

Mike, have you considered some of the older Sugden units? They have a more dynamic, forward character than the Quad 405, and seem to be able to drive more difficult speakers with greater ease. Wonderful rich, fluid sound. I have the P28/C28 separates and love them. Not as detailed as the amp/preamp in our main system, but more musical.

[IHP]

I have a Quad 303 serviced by Rob at Amplabs, with his new front panel, it's one of the sweetest amps I've owned.

[Bigman80]

There are a couple of 606 on eBay.

[Jimbo]

There are a couple of 606 on eBay.

I had a 606 for a very long time and partnered it with many preamps both passive and active.

It is a laid back amp, muscular but pipe and slippers.

[eldarvanyar]

I bought a 606 on eBay last year and had the seller send it directly to Quad for a service, it needed a resistor changing and I agreed to them upgraded it to 909 spec. I initially rang a Quad and spoke to one of their technicians, really helpful, friendly and knowledgeable.
I can’t say the same for other experience in the past with other manufacturers.

I think by the time I received it the total was about £650-700 all in for amp purchase and upgrade etc and with courier delivery.
The service itself is pretty cheap.

That way at least you know it’s all up to spec.

I may be getting a BTE passive made for it although I have a Quad 44 Preamp I can use.

You could try a Quad and easily get your money back if not happy.

[Jimbo]

I know from experience that a 306 or a 303 with a passive gives a sweet and easy sound. Mike's having issues with stridency and harshness so that should solve it. It doesn't sound like your at the studio console but it doesn't sound pipe n slippers either.


Not that there are not many other ways of skinning the same cat but I just don't reckon Croft is the answer here as Mike uses his CD player a lot and I found the current Croft kit to be suboptimal with digital sources. It partners vinyl superbly well though. Someone told me Glenn Croft doesn't even own any digital kit, no guess as to why it is voiced the way it is then.

I tend to agree with you there Martin with CD as a source into a Croft amp but I tried an Innuos server / Qutest DAC and A Macbook laptop /Qutest DAC, all FBA and it sounded wonderful!

[Macca]

I tend to agree with you there Martin with CD as a source into a Croft amp but I tried an Innuos server / Qutest DAC and A Macbook laptop /Qutest DAC, all FBA and it sounded wonderful!

Yes, wasn't inferring that Croft sound rubbish with digital, I just don't think they exploit the strengths of digital the way they do with vinyl.

[walpurgis]

There are a couple of 606 on eBay.

Good amps. The Mk.II is the one to aim for. More than enough power and manages a relaxed sound with smooth top end without being dull.

[walpurgis]

I may be getting a BTE passive made for it although I have a Quad 44 Preamp I can use.

The 44 will obviously work with a 606, but it is a bit of a thick sounding pre-amp in my view. Try one by all means as they hold their value, so can be re-sold without significant loss if need be. A simple passive will run circles around a 44 for sound quality though.

[Jimbo]

Yes, wasn't inferring that Croft sound rubbish with digital, I just don't think they exploit the strengths of digital the way they do with vinyl.

No I did not think you were saying that Martin, I agree with your comments. Croft amps are as you implied best suited to vinyl but I think there are many folk on here that use croft amps in digital set ups with good results.

[Jimbo]

The 44 will obviously work with a 606, but it is a bit of a thick sounding pre-amp in my view. Try one by all means as they hold their value, so can be re-sold without significant loss if need be. A simple passive will run circles around a 44 for sound quality though.


That is exactly what I found.

[Jimbo]

My best sounding digital set ups with Quad amps were with a 606 and a passive. I initially bought the 606 in 1986 to ameliorate the horrendous sound of the early CD players at the time.

[Mikeandvan]

oh right I missed that bit.

Maybe better to star from scratch. What sort of sound are you looking for? Have you heard any other systems that you thought hit the spot for you that could possibly be copied or emulated? You can get a lot for not a lot these days if you know where you want to go.

Not really heard many other systems. And all I really want is something that is real hifi but not harsh or unmusical when it comes to playing jazz or another difficult genre I like 60s rock/beat scratchy sounding stuff like early Beatles, Stones, Kinks. I do like the 'wow' moments when listening aswell. I'm not fussed on huge bass, quite like it lean. But as I said what I really want now is for something to make those jazz cds more listenable. With the Monarchy amp I borrowed, I felt it had real high end quality - like I'd never heard, but there was that hardness thing, could have been the Nak, or something else in my system, but who knows.

[walpurgis]

With the Monarchy amp I borrowed, I felt it had real high end quality - like I'd never heard, but there was that hardness thing, could have been the Nak, or something else in my system, but who knows.

It wasn't the Monarchy SM-70. They are extremely revealing and transparent, but not harsh. I think it may even have been my old one you heard.

The Quad 707 (brother to the 606) I've been using is the complete opposite in character. A huge amount of 'oomph', but done very smoothly and calmly and the silkiest treble you could ask for.

[Mandryka]

That sounds like what I'm looking for, till I won't know for sure till I hear one!


I’d be wary of cheap passive pre amps with quads, my experience with the Tisbury amp was not so positive, at least try and hear one with a 34 or 44 preamp too to compare.

If you’re buying quads, it’s worth paying extra for one that’s been serviced by quad. They’re solid pieces of equipment, but they’re old. When you see claims on eBay that they’ve been serviced ask who did it and ask for the receipt. If the seller has a box and manual, and the amp is clean, it’s a good sign too. They’re always coming up on eBay, so bide your time and wait for a good one.

At the moment my favourite quad power amp is the 303 in fact, I have it paired with a Quad 34 and driving monitor speakers, it sounds so musical!

[Mandryka]

The 44 will obviously work with a 606, but it is a bit of a thick sounding pre-amp in my view. Try one by all means as they hold their value, so can be re-sold without significant loss if need be. A simple passive will run circles around a 44 for sound quality though.

This is not my experience.

[Bigman80]

It wasn't the Monarchy SM-70. They are extremely revealing and transparent, but not harsh. I think it may even have been my old one you heard.

The Quad 707 (brother to the 606) I've been using is the complete opposite in character. A huge amount of 'oomph', but done very smoothly and calmly and the silkiest treble you could ask for.It was Geoff. It also had a brand new UK rated traffo. It is a very special amp and there's no harshness. Believe me.

Transparent, revealing and quite superb.

I was torn selling it but the Krell has allayed any worries I had.

[Bigman80]

I’d be wary of cheap passive pre amps with quads, my experience with the Tisbury amp was not so positive, at least try and hear one with a 34 or 44 preamp too to compare.Agree. Just in general lol.

Get a good pre or NOTHING will sound as it should.

[Macca]

Have you got the same issue when using the Naim amplifier?

If so I'd suggest borrowing a set of speakers just so you can eliminate them as the problem. Usually distortion is amp related or amp/speaker mismatch. But could also be loose connections or a driver issue in the speakers.

Failing that the QUAD plus passive I suggested I guarantee will not sound harsh or hard. Buy them second hand, you won't lose any significant sum if you move them on later. That will at least give you a listenable system

[Roy S]

I didn't get on with the Quad 606, used with a Croft pre I found it a bit woolly but as Martin says you can try most Quads & move them on easily, I only had the 606 for a fortnight & sold it on for what I paid for it.

[walpurgis]

I’d be wary of cheap passive pre amps with quads, my experience with the Tisbury amp was not so positive

I'm not keen on the Tisbury either. The ultra cheap 'Little Bear' passive I got from China sounds way better, although it's not suited to use with Quad amps.

The Promitheus TVC pre-amp works very nicely with Quads, but they are getting scarce these days.

[STD305M]

It wasn't the Monarchy SM-70. They are extremely revealing and transparent, but not harsh. I think it may even have been my old one you heard.

The Quad 707 (brother to the 606) I've been using is the complete opposite in character. A huge amount of 'oomph', but done very smoothly and calmly and the silkiest treble you could ask for.

Hi Geoff

I think the Monarchy was the one you owned,
I now have it.
Got it from Oliver.
Would agree 100% with your comment on it's sound quality.
The problem when Mike heard it was most certainly his Nak preamp.
He's most welcome to listen again using my Dual Mono Dcb1, he'll find it a completely different beast to the Nak...

Steve

[fatmarley]

The ultra cheap 'Little Bear' passive I got from China sounds way better, although it's not suited to use with Quad amps.


Why's it not suited to use with Quad amps?

[Mikeandvan]

Hi Geoff

I think the Monarchy was the one you owned,
I now have it.
Got it from Oliver.
Would agree 100% with your comment on it's sound quality.
The problem when Mike heard it was most certainly his Nak preamp.
He's most welcome to listen again using my Dual Mono Dcb1, he'll find it a completely different beast to the Nak...

Steve

I wouldn't mind that Steve.

[Edward]

Mike I have a Paul Baldwin 405 clone you are welcome to borrow, try out and return. If you like it you can buy it (it will be cheap.)

In many ways nicer than the 405/2 I had some years ago. All you need to do is arrange a courier to pick it up. And if you don't want it return it to Steve (we are due to meet up sometime) or courier it back.

PM if interested.

[Mikeandvan]

Mike I have a Paul Baldwin 405 clone you are welcome to borrow, try out and return. If you like it you can buy it (it will be cheap.)

In many ways nicer than the 405/2 I had some years ago. All you need to do is arrange a courier to pick it up. And if you don't want it return it to Steve (we are due to meet up sometime) or courier it back.

PM if interested.
Thanks Edward, I'll see how I get on with the Monarchy again first, with a different pre, if Steves ok with that.

[DSJR]

The Quad 606 family have never been an 'uber deeeeetailed HiFi amp' as emphasised highs can often lead to listener fatigue. Thing is, younger listeners seem to like an 'upbeat' kind of sound - hence so many younger Naim customers in the early 80's lapping up their then hard toned amps (current Naim is nothing like the old CB era models I feel). Quad was always known as a bit 'pipe and slippers' to many of us youngsters back then. Today, it seems the preamps were Quad's issue as until the grey/chocolate button era 44 and 34 with a good few internal revisions I gather, the sound through the preamps was deadened and constricted slightly, the 34 also adding a kind of 'fog' to the proceedings. I believe the Dada updates do help lift these effects and my 33 was transformed by one of their kits, although it still has a 'sound' to it. The 66 preamp and 77 were much better for reproduction of atmosphere and dynamics, the 77 especially, despite its clunky two-way remote. The sound of 77/707 was more atmosphere, timbres and underpinning 'power' rather than turn-on-a-sixpence dynamic swings and overdone 'clarity' which listeners of any age do get tired of after a while. My only gripe with the 606 based models was the breeze-block shape - it looks crap so sounds it, right? Most owners tended to hide it away, so it just got on with it and these people keep them for years mostly. You want 'precise' and 'clinical,' try LFD, which always tended to leave me stone cold as regards emotional connection with the music played through them...

Quad themselves used to recommend passive preamps, at least with the 405-2. At the time, it was the QED model. Not sure I'd want to run a wide open preamp to a 303 though, as the cap coupled 303 seems to need the band limiting of a 33 at least to perform at its speaker-safest and especially with '57's' as it goes to pieces below 30Hz into that load and 'needs' the sub roll-off in the 33 to perform properly into these (a major explanation as to why the 33 performs the way it does according to a HFN appreciation of the 303/57 combination.

I'm not a fan of the attenuator that Tisbury use and have a couple here which I tried a few years ago, although the bottom of the control's range channel balance was much appreciated. Some amps hum with a passive too, but not others and I admit I haven't tried a passive preamp with a 606 family amp.

I've been lucky enough to hear the current Artera Play and power amp and these are superb in comparison with croft and other well liked alternatives. I need to hear the latest Vena amp which is solidly made, not silly money and 'feels' nice, now with phono stage and if the previous one's anything to go by, should sound great too for not unreasonable outlay.

If anyone sees a Prestige power amp at fair price, that's a good one as well and very powerful - it's Class AB and properly set up with it.

[Bigman80]

The Quad 606 family have never been an 'uber deeeeetailed HiFi amp' as emphasised highs can often lead to listener fatigue. Thing is, younger listeners seem to like an 'upbeat' kind of sound - hence so many younger Naim customers in the early 80's lapping up their then hard toned amps (current Naim is nothing like the old CB era models I feel). Quad was always known as a bit 'pipe and slippers' to many of us youngsters back then. Today, it seems the preamps were Quad's issue as until the grey/chocolate button era 44 and 34 with a good few internal revisions I gather, the sound through the preamps was deadened and constricted slightly, the 34 also adding a kind of 'fog' to the proceedings. I believe the Dada updates do help lift these effects and my 33 was transformed by one of their kits, although it still has a 'sound' to it. The 66 preamp and 77 were much better for reproduction of atmosphere and dynamics, the 77 especially, despite its clunky two-way remote. The sound of 77/707 was more atmosphere, timbres and underpinning 'power' rather than turn-on-a-sixpence dynamic swings and overdone 'clarity' which listeners of any age do get tired of after a while. My only gripe with the 606 based models was the breeze-block shape - it looks crap so sounds it, right? Most owners tended to hide it away, so it just got on with it and these people keep them for years mostly. You want 'precise' and 'clinical,' try LFD, which always tended to leave me stone cold as regards emotional connection with the music played through them...

Quad themselves used to recommend passive preamps, at least with the 405-2. At the time, it was the QED model. Not sure I'd want to run a wide open preamp to a 303 though, as the cap coupled 303 seems to need the band limiting of a 33 at least to perform at its speaker-safest and especially with '57's' as it goes to pieces below 30Hz into that load and 'needs' the sub roll-off in the 33 to perform properly into these (a major explanation as to why the 33 performs the way it does according to a HFN appreciation of the 303/57 combination.

I'm not a fan of the attenuator that Tisbury use and have a couple here which I tried a few years ago, although the bottom of the control's range channel balance was much appreciated. Some amps hum with a passive too, but not others and I admit I haven't tried a passive preamp with a 606 family amp.

I've been lucky enough to hear the current Artera Play and power amp and these are superb in comparison with croft and other well liked alternatives. I need to hear the latest Vena amp which is solidly made, not silly money and 'feels' nice, now with phono stage and if the previous one's anything to go by, should sound great too for not unreasonable outlay.

If anyone sees a Prestige power amp at fair price, that's a good one as well and very powerful - it's Class AB and properly set up with it.Great insight Dave. I enjoy your knowledge!

[walpurgis]

My only gripe with the 606 based models was the breeze-block shape

But some of us like the "breeze block" appearance Dave. I do :).

It makes me laugh when I pick my 707 up, I always think 'how can this little amp weigh so much?'. It's so solid, I doubt you'd break it by dropping it. You'd definitely break your foot though.

[walpurgis]

Why's it not suited to use with Quad amps?

Input sensitivity on the Quads is too high, particularly the 306.

[Light Dependant Resistor]

Input sensitivity is just about perfect IMO, that is if wisely using a passive LDR attenuator

In the circumstance of strangely wanting to change the sensitivity
this can be done via R13 changing from 9R1 to 7R5 should raise sensitivity to 0.775v

[Mikeandvan]

Have you got the same issue when using the Naim amplifier?

If so I'd suggest borrowing a set of speakers just so you can eliminate them as the problem. Usually distortion is amp related or amp/speaker mismatch. But could also be loose connections or a driver issue in the speakers.

Failing that the QUAD plus passive I suggested I guarantee will not sound harsh or hard. Buy them second hand, you won't lose any significant sum if you move them on later. That will at least give you a listenable system

The issue is there with the Naim but not so amplified. The Nait is very weedy compared to the Monarchy, despite being rated the same or very close. I did have a pair of Naim credos once in my current flat, I think they were quite hard sounding as well, I really do think the acoustics in my flat are having a negative effect on the sound. I live in rented accommodation so can't make any long term plans. Steve did suggest hanging a canvas pic with insulation behind it.

[Macca]

The acoustics won't make the sound harsh though. Too bright or too dull depending on how well the room is damped, maybe. But harshness and hardness is due to the amplification. Either mismatched, faulty or just plain crap.

[Mikeandvan]

Why's it not suited to use with Quad amps?
You use the little bear with a 306 right?

[Mikeandvan]

I'm thinking 303 or 306, is there any real difference between the two?

[Mikeandvan]

Here's a refurbed 303 on Ebay, seems too cheap though, recap etc - £165 inc. courier!
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Quad-303-Power-Amplifier-Service-and-Recap-courier-included/264161815711?hash=item3d81456c9f:g:Nd0AAOSwAP9cRlp X:rk:3:pf:0

[Macca]

Here's a refurbed 303 on Ebay, seems too cheap though, recap etc - £165 inc. courier!
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Quad-303-Power-Amplifier-Service-and-Recap-courier-included/264161815711?hash=item3d81456c9f:g:Nd0AAOSwAP9cRlp X:rk:3:pf:0

You missed this bit in the text:

Please note: THIS IS NOT AN AMP FOR SALE, BUT A SERVICE :0)

[Macca]

One here just under £200 with postage. But tatty though.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Quad-303-Power-Amplifier/132935323976?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.M BE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20160323102634%26meid%3D1be7cf 0427944111ad542fe052e7b8bd%26pid%3D100623%26rk%3D2 %26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D264161815711%26itm%3D13293532397 6&_trksid=p2047675.c100623.m-1

[Mikeandvan]

You missed this bit in the text:

Please note: THIS IS NOT AN AMP FOR SALE, BUT A SERVICE :0)
Scammers!

[Mikeandvan]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Quad-303-Power-Amplifier/132935323976?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.M BE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20160323102634%26meid%3D1be7cf 0427944111ad542fe052e7b8bd%26pid%3D100623%26rk%3D2 %26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D264161815711%26itm%3D13293532397 6&_trksid=p2047675.c100623.m-1

There's better ones than that for same or less money. Is there any preference over 303 or 306?

[walpurgis]

You use the little bear with a 306 right?

I've tried those together, it sounds fine, but the gain is too immediate due to the 306 input sensitivity.

When I use the 306, I pair it with a Promitheus TVC pre-amp. Lovely combination.

[walpurgis]

I'm thinking 303 or 306, is there any real difference between the two?

Think of the 303 as a comfy pair of old carpet slippers and the 306 as a neat pair of trainers and you'll get the idea. :)

Personally, I'd have the 306 every time.

[walpurgis]

Here's a refurbed 303 on Ebay, seems too cheap though, recap etc - £165 inc. courier!
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Quad-303-Power-Amplifier-Service-and-Recap-courier-included/264161815711?hash=item3d81456c9f:g:Nd0AAOSwAP9cRlp X:rk:3:pf:0

And there's a very tidy 306 I mentioned on 'Bargains on ebay' earlier: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Quad-306-Stereo-Power-Amplifier/372578098877?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

[Mikeandvan]

And there's a very tidy 306 I mentioned on 'Bargains on ebay' earlier: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Quad-306-Stereo-Power-Amplifier/372578098877?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

Mine is currently the highest bid.

[walpurgis]

Mine is currently the highest bid.

I never bid early on anything. Why tell competing bidders to up their bids?

I decide the max I'm willing to pay and bid that amount eight seconds before the end. That way there's no time for a competing bidder to bid again. Of course, there may be a bigger bid than yours already going in or a bigger snipe bid, but that's a chance you take.

[DSJR]

I had a severe downer on the 306, but suspect it was the 34 causing the issues with audio 'fog' on percussive music. Great thread here by someone who's sensitively doing up a 306 with what i regard as sensible components.

The 303 is a high output impedance antique now, a charming old relic, but modern speakers WILL be altered sonically by using it. Mine (a rebuilt late one) is soft and velvet into my equally old Spendors but it's very 'wrong' when you try to hear into a music mix and find it difficult compared to modern alternatives..

[walpurgis]

I keep wondering whether to start stockpiling 306 amps as an investment while they can still be bought at somewhat sensible prices. I think the 306 is possibly the best sounding Quad power amp and I anticipate values rising a fair bit before too long. For the excellent build quality and sound, I think they are undervalued in real terms. What else is there that competes at the money? Nothing!

[Macca]

I had a severe downer on the 306, but suspect it was the 34 causing the issues with audio 'fog' ..

You think? ;)

First time I heard a 34 (up against a Croft Micro Basic) I thought it was broken.

[walpurgis]

First time I heard a 34 (up against a Croft Micro Basic) I thought it was broken.

Yes. Tried one in my system many years ago and got much the same impression. Still, some like 'em! (probably never heard a decent pre-amp though)

[DSJR]

Old Quad preamps invert the phase, if that's any help.

[Mikeandvan]

I never bid early on anything. Why tell competing bidders to up their bids?

I decide the max I'm willing to pay and bid that amount eight seconds before the end. That way there's no time for a competing bidder to bid again. Of course, there may be a bigger bid than yours already going in or a bigger snipe bid, but that's a chance you take.

I dunno, I just sit at home bored bidding on stuff. Anyway, it went upto £220, so I saw a bin for £225 and bought that one instead.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Quad-306-power-Amplifier/132922629402?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2648

[walpurgis]

I dunno, I just sit at home bored bidding on stuff. Anyway, it went upto £220, so I saw a bin for £225 and bought that one instead.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Quad-306-power-Amplifier/132922629402?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2648

Looks a nice one. You won't regret buying it, they're a cracking amp for that kind of money.

[fatmarley]

Input sensitivity on the Quads is too high, particularly the 306.

Oh yea, forgot that I changed mine (it's very easy to do).

[fatmarley]

You use the little bear with a 306 right?

Yes, As Geoff said, there's too much gain as standard but you only have to replace one resistor per channel to adjust that. I used Vishay MRS25 resistors.

[walpurgis]

Oh yea, forgot that I changed mine (it's very easy to do).

Been thinking of doing mine. I've got the details somewhere (I think :)).

[walpurgis]

Yes, As Geoff said, there's too much gain as standard but you only have to replace one resistor per channel to adjust that. I used Vishay MRS25 resistors.

Just checked. Looks like R13 needs to be 27R for 1.0V input sensitivity on the 306. Nice and easy to reach. What rating resistors did you use?

[Mikeandvan]

Oh yea, forgot that I changed mine (it's very easy to do).

Aah.

[Mikeandvan]

Now what pre amp/ passive pre amp do I get? Spend up to £300. Ta.

[walpurgis]

Now what pre amp/ passive pre amp do I get? Spend up to £300. Ta.

Put a 'wanted' in the Private Exhibitions section for a Promithieus TVC pre-amp and be amazed at how good it sounds with the 306. It's what I use. I'll bet somebody here has one. They sell for around £200 depending on condition.

[fatmarley]

Just checked. Looks like R13 needs to be 27R for 1.0V input sensitivity on the 306. Nice and easy to reach. What rating resistors did you use?

I honestly can't remember. I know that I used a different value than was suggested by Dada electronics because I was using very efficient speakers.

[Firebottle]

Now what pre amp/ passive pre amp do I get? Spend up to £300. Ta.

I would suggest one of these passives https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Volume-Remote-Control-Relay-128-Steps-Exponential-Constant-input-impedance-4-CH-/143087086421?hash=item2150a7ab55

Only bettered by a switched attenuator.

I have one you can have for £80 + postage.

[walpurgis]

I would suggest one of these passives https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Volume-Remote-Control-Relay-128-Steps-Exponential-Constant-input-impedance-4-CH-/143087086421?hash=item2150a7ab55

Only bettered by a switched attenuator.

I have one you can have for £80 + postage.

I've been looking at those. And they come in black to match the rest of my gear.

There are a couple of non remote controlled versions on offer, which for some reason cost more.

[Bigman80]

https://khozmo.com/stereo_selector.html

[Firebottle]

I would suggest one of these passives https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Volume-Remote-Control-Relay-128-Steps-Exponential-Constant-input-impedance-4-CH-/143087086421?hash=item2150a7ab55

Only bettered by a switched attenuator.

I have one you can have for £80 + postage.

Sorry to say this has just sold.

[Bonky]

I used my DADA-Quad306 with a Schitt Saga (has a remote). A great combination IMHO.
R

[Mikeandvan]

I used my DADA-Quad306 with a Schitt Saga (has a remote). A great combination IMHO.
R

Lovely looking things!

[Mikeandvan]

I would suggest one of these passives https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Volume-Remote-Control-Relay-128-Steps-Exponential-Constant-input-impedance-4-CH-/143087086421?hash=item2150a7ab55

Only bettered by a switched attenuator.

I have one you can have for £80 + postage.

What's a switched attenuator? Is that the Khozmo linked to by Bigman?

[Bigman80]

What's a switched attenuator? Is that the Khozmo linked to by Bigman?Yup

[Mikeandvan]

I'm thinking Khozmo now, but then Bonky went and linked to that rather lovely looking Schitt saga!
Confused. Anybody comment on the different sound signature of the two?

[Bigman80]

I'm thinking Khozmo now, but then Bonky went and linked to that rather lovely looking Schitt saga!
Confused. Anybody comment on the different sound signature of the two?No signature with the Khozmo Stepped Attenuators. It's utterly superb in my opinion. I have one, Steve's had three, Macca has one, Alan bought a similar thing from Acoustic Dimensions. It's high end. If you feel it needs more drive after a listen to a passive, you can add a unity buffer fee very little money.

Seriously, if you buy a schitt over a Khozmo, I will wash my hands of this thread. [emoji23]

The preamp from Khozmo is a great bargain. I suggest it's probably going to do exactly what you want.

[Mikeandvan]

No signature with the Khozmo Stepped Attenuators. It's utterly superb in my opinion. I have one, Steve's had three, Macca has one, Alan bought a similar thing from Acoustic Dimensions. It's high end. If you feel it needs more drive after a listen to a passive, you can add a unity buffer fee very little money.

Seriously, if you buy a schitt over a Khozmo, I will wash my hands of this thread. [emoji23]

The preamp from Khozmo is a great bargain. I suggest it's probably going to do exactly what you want.

Sold!

[Bigman80]

Sold!Good man.

I think it's €299 for the stereo passive. Can't be a bad decision.

If I didn't have my dcb1, I'd probably have one.

[STD305M]

I'm thinking Khozmo now, but then Bonky went and linked to that rather lovely looking Schitt saga!
Confused. Anybody comment on the different sound signature of the two?



Mike

You heard a Khozmo at mine running into a pair of Firebittle mono blocks and also into the Little Monarchy, its obiously not what you need.






Steve...

[Mikeandvan]

Good man.

I think it's €299 for the stereo passive. Can't be a bad decision.

If I didn't have my dcb1, I'd probably have one.

Cheers, just ordered one, hope it doesn't take too long getting here.

[Bigman80]

Cheers, just ordered one, hope it doesn't take too long getting here.I think he builds to order so keep that in mind.

At least now you'll KNOW what the amplifier sounds like. I'm a big fan of the Khozmo and am convinced of its transparency.

Well done!

[Mikeandvan]

Mike

You heard a Khozmo at mine running into a pair of Firebittle mono blocks and also into the Little Monarchy, its obiously not what you need.






Steve...

Why?

[STD305M]

Mike
You really confuse me.

You heard it the Khozmo at mine through Firebottle monos and the Monarchy SM70 and said it was to harsh.

I took the whole system to yours and you made the same comment , whats all that about.?????

The only thing that wanted changing was your Nak !!!!!

Steve

Really confusing

[STD305M]

What do you mean WHY

You heard the Khozmo at my house running through Firebottle monos and the Monarchy SM70, then I took it to yours and you still said its too hard and harsh,
now you have gone and bought a Khozmo??????
Anyone who has heard the Firebottles or the Little Monarchy will tell you they don't sound hard
And the Khozmo passive or buffered is certainly NOT hard just Transparent.!!!!

Confusing to say the least

Steve

[Bigman80]

I think the Khozmo will help the Quad.

It's a wise purchase, if you don't like the combo, you'll shift it easy.

[struth]

I think the Khozmo will help the Quad.

It's a wise purchase, if you don't like the combo, you'll shift it easy.

inclined to think it will too.

[STD305M]

Ive not heard anything that would better the Khozmo for the same money.
Theats why I've used it for the past 2 years...

Now in my Dual mono dcb1

[Bigman80]

inclined to think it will too.It's a good move, Grant. The Quad isn't renowned for detail so sticking an Alps blue or similar isn't going to help. The Khozmo will enable Mike to hear the true performance of anything he has in the chain. Regardless of what happens when it's all used together, the Khozmo won't be at fault. Not in my opinion anyway.

[STD305M]

Hi Oliver
Agreed

[walpurgis]

The Quad isn't renowned for detail

Where does it say that?

The 306 is very good at detail and has excellent transparency too. I wouldn't have kept mine if it was thick and wooly sounding.

But I do wonder how the passives that have been suggested would actually pair with one. Whereas, I know the Promitheus gives fine results.

[Bigman80]

Where does it say that?

The 306 is very good at detail and has excellent transparency too. I wouldn't have kept mine if it was thick and wooly sounding.

But I do wonder how the passives that have been suggested would actually pair with one. Whereas, I know the Promitheus gives fine results.I Can't recommend a TVC after the Khozmo Geoff. I haven't heard Prometheus but aside from probably the Tributes/Mingda, I'd not go there again.

I didn't specify the 306. I've heard a 405 & 303 (?). Thick, like you say.

No decent TVC's out there for sale currently.

[walpurgis]

I Can't recommend a TVC after the Khozmo Geoff.

It's a combination that works very well, so I can recommend it.

[Bigman80]

It's a combination that works very well, so I can recommend it.I don't doubt you Geoff, as you know, I've listened to your amp advice before and been very impressed.

I just wouldn't go back to TVC from SA.

[walpurgis]

Have you tried a 306? If you haven't, you should.

I'd rate it as being around the capability of the SM-70 Pro soundwise, but with a different tonality and a bit more poke obviously. In fact, I suspect the Quad may even be more open in the mid area.

[karma67]

well if you guys cant agree no wonder mikes getting confused. :D

[southall-1998_mk2]

Old geezers fighting. Very common in the Hi-Fi world ;)

S.

[walpurgis]

Old geezers fighting. Very common in the Hi-Fi world ;)

S.

Just go and do your homework Shane! :D

[southall-1998_mk2]

Just go and do your homework Shane! :D

Done it already :ner:

S.

[Bigman80]

Have you tried a 306? If you haven't, you should.

I'd rate it as being around the capability of the SM-70 Pro soundwise, but with a different tonality and a bit more poke obviously. In fact, I suspect the Quad may even be more open in the mid area.Outrageous statement [emoji38][emoji38]

Ok Geoff, challenge accepted. I will find and audition a Quad 306.

Anyone got one I can borrow?

[Bigman80]

Old geezers fighting. Very common in the Hi-Fi world ;)

S.Old! Bollocks, I'm still in my thirties!


Lol

[karma67]

Old! Bollocks, I'm still in my thirties!


Lol

your hair isnt! :lol:

[Bigman80]

your hair isnt! [emoji38]Lol. Swine.

Yes, balding at 29 was a pain.

[Macca]

At least you're tall.

[Pieoftheday]

I had a lovely example of a quad 306, Jez formally of this parish serviced it, wish I still had it. It won't impress with in your face excitement but it's just a great natural sounding amp, why did I sell.it? Bugger

[Bigman80]

At least you're tall.

Yes, thankfully lol

[southall-1998_mk2]

Some amplifiers that have ''too much swagger'' can be a death sentence to some folks ears. But each to their own!

S.

[Jimbo]

How come the 306 is so well regarded? I have has a 606 and 405-2 and enjoyed using them but always thought the 306 was a lowered powered version of the 606.

[walpurgis]

How come the 306 is so well regarded? I have has a 606 and 405-2 and enjoyed using them but always thought the 306 was a lowered powered version of the 606.

I have the 707 which sounds virtually the same as the 606 and my 306 sounds very different. In my system the 707 gives velvety relaxed power and the 306 is more upbeat and lively in a good way. Both excellent amps though.

[Jimbo]

I have the 707 which sounds virtually the same as the 606 and my 306 sounds very different. In my system the 707 gives velvety relaxed power and the 306 is more upbeat and lively in a good way. Both excellent amps though.

Yes the 606 does have a calm and unflistered ability which is why I kept mine as my main power amp for 25 years! I must try and listen to a 306 sometime.

[Macca]

How come the 306 is so well regarded? I have has a 606 and 405-2 and enjoyed using them but always thought the 306 was a lowered powered version of the 606.

It is.

[Jimbo]

It is.

Maybe I mistakenly thought it would just sound like a lowered power of the 606 but apparently not.

[walpurgis]

The 405 also sounds different.

[Macca]

I don't know, I never heard a 606. But same circuit so they can't be too far apart in character, you'd think anyway. They both need pre-amps so how they sound will depend on that too.

[Jimbo]

The 405 also sounds different.

Yes I had a 405-2 and it certainly sounded different to my 606. Much preferred the 606.

[walpurgis]

Yes I had a 405-2 and it certainly sounded different to my 606. Much preferred the 606.

I like the impression of power you get with the 606/707/909 amps. It's very relaxed but with an underlying potency that is rather appealing. A bit like driving a six litre car on a calm country run.

[Gerry]

I had a 606 for years which sounded great, got upgraded to MK2 by the boys in Huntington...and was still good.
Had a QSP which was a major jump.
Now running QMPs...even better.
I also have a number of valve powers, Beard P101, Rogue Audio mono blocks.....there is still something about the Quads..easy power, no strain, effortless.
I'm driving (always have done) Maggie's, not not the easiest.
I think Quad powers at £300-£600 are exceptional value.

[Jimbo]

I had a 606 for years which sounded great, got upgraded to MK2 by the boys in Huntington...and was still good.
Had a QSP which was a major jump.
Now running QMPs...even better.
I also have a number of valve powers, Beard P101, Rogue Audio mono blocks.....there is still something about the Quads..easy power, no strain, effortless.
I'm driving (always have done) Maggie's, not not the easiest.
I think Quad powers at £300-£600 are exceptional value.

I know quite a few folk who run two 606 power amps in their system as monos. That's effortless power!

[walpurgis]

I know quite a few folk who run two 606 power amps in their system as monos. That's effortless power!

Actually. Running big Tannoys and other sensitive speakers 15 watts does me really, but a grunty amp is fun to play with. :)

[struth]

Liked the 306 I heard a lot. although I would like to here a pair of 405 monos lol. Not likely to hear them but imagine they'd be good.
606 looks interesting and never knew there was 707.thought boing made those

[Gerry]

I know quite a few folk who run two 606 power amps in their system as monos. That's effortless power!

The QMPs are mono block 909s with improved (they say) circuitry.

[Mikeandvan]

What do you mean WHY

You heard the Khozmo at my house running through Firebottle monos and the Monarchy SM70, then I took it to yours and you still said its too hard and harsh,
now you have gone and bought a Khozmo??????
Anyone who has heard the Firebottles or the Little Monarchy will tell you they don't sound hard
And the Khozmo passive or buffered is certainly NOT hard just Transparent.!!!!

Confusing to say the least

Steve

Just call it a Dianne Abbot moment! :lol:

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7895/32045392167_8ca4d9a346_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/QPK1Dv)dianne (https://flic.kr/p/QPK1Dv) by Mike Van (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145505522@N02/), on Flickr

[STD305M]

Just call it a Dianne Abbot moment!

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7895/32045392167_8ca4d9a346_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/QPK1Dv)dianne (https://flic.kr/p/QPK1Dv) by Mike Van (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145505522@N02/), on Flickr

Dianneandvan, Has a certain ring to it :lol: :lol:

Steve...

[Mikeandvan]

I didn't think it mattered too much what passive I bought to match the Quad, I was under the impression they added nothing to the sound, and were just neutral and transparent. I got the Khozmo as it appeared to be of high quality, and the TVC could have taken months to crop up, if at all. Is it a good idea to get the Quad serviced? Then I'll know it sounds as it should, or best to hear it first just in case I don't like it? Have to say its all a bit of a leap in the dark, but I was getting impatient with the Naim, really isn't doing much for me. I need to listen at low volumes now as well, as next door have had a kid and they're getting a bit complainy, not their fault of course, there are times I can listen loud, I just have to make sure the pram is gone from our shared hallway so I know they're out.:lol: I'd like a new dac as well, to improve the Pioneer, but that's for another thread may'be.

[Bigman80]

I didn't think it mattered too much what passive I bought to match the Quad, I was under the impression they added nothing to the sound, and were just neutral and transparent. I got the Khozmo as it appeared to be of high quality, and the TVC could have taken months to crop up, if at all. Is it a good idea to get the Quad serviced? Then I'll know it sounds as it should, or best to hear it first just in case I don't like it? Have to say its all a bit of a leap in the dark, but I was getting impatient with the Naim, really isn't doing much for me. I need to listen at low volumes now as well, as next door have had a kid and they're getting a bit complainy, not their fault of course, there are times I can listen loud, I just have to make sure the pram is gone from our shared hallway so I know they're out.[emoji38] I'd like a new dac as well, to improve the Pioneer, but that's for another thread may'be.A leap in the dark can sometimes be very rewarding. For instance, you tried the NAK, Naim combi, didn't like it. You won't go there again. Now you have a new combo to try. You are building experience and if you buy diligently, you won't lose money. This means you can box swap for very little money, like I did, until you find the direction you seek.

Servicing, well that's debatable. I wouldn't do anything until I was convinced it was something I may like to keep for a while.

You'll need 100hrs on that Khozmo before judging that too. Let it open up sonically and then judge it.

[Mikeandvan]

A leap in the dark can sometimes be very rewarding. For instance, you tried the NAK, Naim combi, didn't like it. You won't go there again. Now you have a new combo to try. You are building experience and if you buy diligently, you won't lose money. This means you can box swap for very little money, like I did, until you find the direction you seek.

Servicing, well that's debatable. I wouldn't do anything until I was convinced it was something I may like to keep for a while.

You'll need 100hrs on that Khozmo before judging that too. Let it open up sonically and then judge it.

Thanks Oliver, I was wondering how long I would have to run it in for, I've only ever bought used.

[Mandryka]

I didn't think it mattered too much what passive I bought to match the Quad, I was under the impression they added nothing to the sound, and were just neutral and transparent. I got the Khozmo as it appeared to be of high quality, and the TVC could have taken months to crop up, if at all. Is it a good idea to get the Quad serviced? Then I'll know it sounds as it should, or best to hear it first just in case I don't like it? Have to say its all a bit of a leap in the dark, but I was getting impatient with the Naim, really isn't doing much for me. I need to listen at low volumes now as well, as next door have had a kid and they're getting a bit complainy, not their fault of course, there are times I can listen loud, I just have to make sure the pram is gone from our shared hallway so I know they're out.:lol: I'd like a new dac as well, to improve the Pioneer, but that's for another thread may'be.

Don't get it serviced for a couple of months -- if you like it I'd post it to Quad if I were you, it won't cost much money but it will take a month probably. Pre amps make quite a difference, the Khozmo has a good reputation.

[fatmarley]

If you like it, another option is a Dada service/upgrade kit. They just bring it up to a later spec IIRC. Or maybe save up for a more modern Quad amp? (don't know what they are supposed to be like though)

[Tea24]

I have a 606-2 & a 306. Run into KEF 104/2s can't say I can tell the difference (old ears?).

The 306 has just returned from Quad after a service (£55 standard service charge plus parts & post; they give a 28 day turnaround but what with Christmas etc. was nearer 2 months).

Both good amps though. Haven't tried the amp since its return as we have just moved house so system not up & running yet. I wonder if the service will show a difference between them. They didn't change any parts so I rather doubt it, in which case might sell the 606.

I am sold on Quad - very under rated generally IMHO; other things are perhaps more 'exciting' but that's not what I seek. Also where in our throw away age can you get most things 28 years old serviced & repaired?

[Tryant]

You'll need 100hrs on that Khozmo before judging that too. Let it open up sonically and then judge it.

What happens after 100hrs? How would a passive pre-amp like the Khozmo open up sonically?

[karma67]

Especially as it’s already been said, it’s transparent.

[Bigman80]

Burn in ist mutually exclusive to active or passive components. Cables regularly demonstrate audible changes throughout the first 100hrs.

The Khozmo is no different. At first things can sound a little tight. Maybe even sharp.

After you've given it a good run, it "relaxes".

Why this happens to any bit of kit is not something I have a definitive answer to

[Bigman80]

Especially as it’s already been said, it’s transparent.It's presentation, not transparency that's affected with the Khozmo.

I've had two, both did exactly the same. Steve's had 3 and his did it too.

I have no idea why it happens but it does.

[Tryant]

Burn in ist mutually exclusive to active or passive components. Cables regularly demonstrate audible changes throughout the first 100hrs.

The Khozmo is no different. At first things can sound a little tight. Maybe even sharp.

After you've given it a good run, it "relaxes".

Why this happens to any bit of kit is not something I have a definitive answer to

Wow. Tell me this is a wind up, right? The only thing that demonstrably changes in the first 100 hours is your imagination. You have no definitive explanation because there's isn't any. I thought these ludicrous claims were debunked years ago.

[Leeken]

Wow. Tell me this is a wind up, right? The only thing that demonstrably changes in the first 100 hours is your imagination. You have no definitive explanation because there's isn't any. I thought these ludicrous claims were debunked years ago.

I really wish you could have heard my quad qsp for the first few hours,unlistenable!

[Bigman80]

Wow. Tell me this is a wind up, right? The only thing that demonstrably changes in the first 100 hours is your imagination. You have no definitive explanation because there's isn't any. I thought these ludicrous claims were debunked years ago.Yes. Of course its my imagination. I'd like to see you demonstrate demonstrably.

Same imagination as KLE (and multiple others) who recommend 100hrs on their plugs before evaluation.

A lot of us are delusional.

Feel free to continue your (incorrect) belief.

[Bigman80]

I really wish you could have heard my quad qsp for the first few hours,unlistenable!It was your imagination. Tyrant said so. He's an authority on the subject apparently.

[Spectral Morn]

Wow. Tell me this is a wind up, right? The only thing that demonstrably changes in the first 100 hours is your imagination. You have no definitive explanation because there's isn't any. I thought these ludicrous claims were debunked years ago.

This is a subjective forum and while objectivists are welcome, views must be expressed in a less dismissive and rude manner. Your experiences/opinions discount such things others don't share your experiences or views.

I suggest strongly you read the site Ethos https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?17-The-basics-of-Ethos

[Marco]

Wow. Tell me this is a wind up, right? The only thing that demonstrably changes in the first 100 hours is your imagination. You have no definitive explanation because there's isn't any. I thought these ludicrous claims were debunked years ago.

Erm, excuse me, Jesse, we don't address each other here in such a terse and dismissive manner, so kindly desist from behaving that way in future.

AoS is also staunchly 'ears first', so people's valid subjective experiences will always be given due consideration and shown the respect that they deserve, not rudely dismissed out of hand because they don't appear to fit with someone's scientific belief system.

Marco.

[DSJR]

Wow. Tell me this is a wind up, right? The only thing that demonstrably changes in the first 100 hours is your imagination. You have no definitive explanation because there's isn't any. I thought these ludicrous claims were debunked years ago.

You're a new member, so I can understand your disbelief at these things and most of the time, you'd probably be absolutely right!

However -

For some years I ran a system with three identical power amps (two as bridged stereo pair and the third for headphones) run from the same preamp together. I used two good quality sets of interconnects (no need to say yet again what they were), one admittedly made by myself, although my soldering isn't bad imo. When new, I swore I could hear a slight difference between them, one set having a slightly 'plump' characteristic and observed by others who'd used this cable. The other set sounding possibly slightly 'livelier' to me and just maybe not as 'gracious' in it's music presentation (forgive my description). I regularly swapped these cables from one amp set to the other (amps were stacked) and felt the difference (using headphones) was repeatable - for a while... Both cables carried the same signal at the same volume at any one time.

Some months later, I attempted to do this comparison again and was damned if I could tell any difference between them whatsoever. Now, this is obviously NOT a scientific comparison or feeling and of course physical changes in me and/or my ears could well have played a large part - I NEVER trust my ears as so many here seem to do!

Anyway, the only thing I can say is to keep an open mind to some of these things. The cable I thought had the slight plumpness is often regarded as this, or safe and not as 'clear' as some by many peeps who've tried it. I can see where that observation comes from and I'm damned if I know why these changes happen to installed cables that are left pretty well alone and not messed around with over the course of six months... I've had mine made up for a few years now and just forget it's there, so I'm happy!

I have other cables that don't change their sound at all in any way, like 'em or not...

To be honest, my decades around and about this industry have shown that ancilliaries like wires, plugs and so on are the least thing to bother about if the gear itself isn't matched properly. As for 'grounding boxes,' measurably 'they' appear to make the situation worse and the whole 'grounding' idea is totally mis-understood out there in audiophile-land anyway it would appear as the only 'ground' we have is the planet we live on, not a wooden box full of magic ingredients and a couple of metal plates. Let's see if they're a passing fad or gain credence over the next few years as they become better understood.. So many 'best since sliced bread' fads have come and gone in my time, so we'll see!

Oh by the way, I've done unscientific comparisons with carbon pots, film pots as a genre and stepped attenuators, either ladder type or shunt. The cheapo film pot I know 'feels' nice and bottom of scale variable balance aside, allows atmosphere and reverb effects to come through quite nicely. The old carbon pots in my power amps are slightly dry in sound and seem not quite as clear (yes I know!). Replacement film pots of the same log value I replaced them with on one amp pair seemed to restore this. Stepped attenuators (each step with precise L-pad) obviously have an advantage in precise exact channel matching, but the real 'difference' comes in shunt types and in my opinion, this entirely depends on what they're used with as to whether this works or not (one fixed value in series and different 'shunt' resistors on each step to vary the volume). Some power amps don't mind the source impedance changing with ever volume step and others do. Same goes for the source item, although many modern sources don't seem to mind (apart from cheaper Rega CD players that need to see around 50k all the time apparently).

Don't totally disbelieve some of the things 'we' come out with. Not all of it is bullsh*t I assure you and there are genuinely objective reasons as to why *some things* make a slight objective difference.

[DSJR]

I said it earlier, I like the Dada Quad updates which can be quite comprehensive, yet true to the original design goals I feel.

The main limitation with a 306 is power. 50W isn't much these days with higher dynamic range sources available and with some conventional speakers, it'll become breathless if pushed I think (old Naim 50 Watters hard clipped nastily, but when the listener is a young rocker, this gives a kind of 'frisson' to the music playback experience - is that the right term?).

The one amp I'd be careful of is the 303. Its high output impedance and almost total lack of control at very low bass WILL have an audible effect on any speakers connected to it and this is one reason why the old 33 preamp was *deliberately* rolled off quickly below 35Hz I gather.

[Tryant]

Ooops, sorry fellas. I'll get me hat.

[Bigman80]

You're a new member, so I can understand your disbelief at these things and most of the time, you'd probably be absolutely right!

However -

For some years I ran a system with three identical power amps (two as bridged stereo pair and the third for headphones) run from the same preamp together. I used two good quality sets of interconnects (no need to say yet again what they were), one admittedly made by myself, although my soldering isn't bad imo. When new, I swore I could hear a slight difference between them, one set having a slightly 'plump' characteristic and observed by others who'd used this cable. The other set sounding possibly slightly 'livelier' to me and just maybe not as 'gracious' in it's music presentation (forgive my description). I regularly swapped these cables from one amp set to the other (amps were stacked) and felt the difference (using headphones) was repeatable - for a while... Both cables carried the same signal at the same volume at any one time.

Some months later, I attempted to do this comparison again and was damned if I could tell any difference between them whatsoever. Now, this is obviously NOT a scientific comparison or feeling and of course physical changes in me and/or my ears could well have played a large part - I NEVER trust my ears as so many here seem to do!

Anyway, the only thing I can say is to keep an open mind to some of these things. The cable I thought had the slight plumpness is often regarded as this, or safe and not as 'clear' as some by many peeps who've tried it. I can see where that observation comes from and I'm damned if I know why these changes happen to installed cables that are left pretty well alone and not messed around with over the course of six months... I've had mine made up for a few years now and just forget it's there, so I'm happy!

I have other cables that don't change their sound at all in any way, like 'em or not...

To be honest, my decades around and about this industry have shown that ancilliaries like wires, plugs and so on are the least thing to bother about if the gear itself isn't matched properly. As for 'grounding boxes,' measurably 'they' appear to make the situation worse and the whole 'grounding' idea is totally mis-understood out there in audiophile-land anyway it would appear as the only 'ground' we have is the planet we live on, not a wooden box full of magic ingredients and a couple of metal plates. Let's see if they're a passing fad or gain credence over the next few years as they become better understood.. So many 'best since sliced bread' fads have come and gone in my time, so we'll see!

Oh by the way, I've done unscientific comparisons with carbon pots, film pots as a genre and stepped attenuators, either ladder type or shunt. The cheapo film pot I know 'feels' nice and bottom of scale variable balance aside, allows atmosphere and reverb effects to come through quite nicely. The old carbon pots in my power amps are slightly dry in sound and seem not quite as clear (yes I know!). Replacement film pots of the same log value I replaced them with on one amp pair seemed to restore this. Stepped attenuators (each step with precise L-pad) obviously have an advantage in precise exact channel matching, but the real 'difference' comes in shunt types and in my opinion, this entirely depends on what they're used with as to whether this works or not (one fixed value in series and different 'shunt' resistors on each step to vary the volume). Some power amps don't mind the source impedance changing with ever volume step and others do. Same goes for the source item, although many modern sources don't seem to mind (apart from cheaper Rega CD players that need to see around 50k all the time apparently).

Don't totally disbelieve some of the things 'we' come out with. Not all of it is bullsh*t I assure you and there are genuinely objective reasons as to why *some things* make a slight objective difference.It's easy to demo the effects here. I have components I KNOW change after time passed. It's happened multiple times.

[walpurgis]

Having kept an eye on second hand Quad amplifier values (amongst others) for quite a while, it's clear that there is a steady upward trend in asking prices. I anticipate this continuing, so if anybody is contemplating a Quad purchase, I'd suggest this is a good time, otherwise I think you'll be paying a fair bit more soon.

[spendorman]

Having kept an eye on second hand Quad amplifier values (amongst others) for quite a while, it's clear that there is a steady upward trend in asking prices. I anticipate this continuing, so if anybody is contemplating a Quad purchase, I'd suggest this is a good time, otherwise I think you'll be paying a fair bit more soon.

Price of 303's seems to have about doubled in a few years.

[struth]

Mate has a 33/303 and tuner combo. He wanted to sell it a few years ago and value had dropped dramatically. So what they up to now?

[Bigman80]

Ooops, sorry fellas. I'll get me hat.

The subject of "burn in" is a bit of a debatable one so i understand the viewpoint.I

I have heard it happen and have repeated it with the same components. It's also been reported with the same component in other threads by impartial users, without prompting.

I'm a believer, you're not. No harm done.

[walpurgis]

Mate has a 33/303 and tuner combo. He wanted to sell it a few years ago and value had dropped dramatically. So what they up to now?

I'd say £350 to £450 for the set depending on condition, but some ask more.

[struth]

I'd say £350 to £450 for the set depending on condition, but some ask more.A lot more then than they were. Sure he will be pleased

[spendorman]

A lot more then than they were. Sure he will be pleased

A well set up 303 can sound very good, yes the output impedance can be a bit high, leading to uncontrolled bass with some speakers, but with the right speakers this is not much of a problem. The midrange of the 303 is excellent.

[spendorman]

I've been stocking up!

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8125/29704091785_5b6e030a3f_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/MfReBx)DSCF2277 (https://flic.kr/p/MfReBx) by A60man (https://www.flickr.com/photos/41679262@N02/), on Flickr

[walpurgis]

Show off! :D

[spendorman]

Show off! :D
Really just shows how mad I am.

[walpurgis]

Really just shows how mad I am.

Strikes me as sensible, you can never have too many :).

[spendorman]

Strikes me as sensible, you can never have too many :).

In fact they were bought over many years, first one second hand in 1974. It's actually one of the very early 303's, low serial number. It's still completely original. The output and power supply electrolytics seem better quality than later production.

[southall-1998_mk2]

What's the power rating of 306 driving 4 ohm speakers?

Just out of curiosity does the 306 have internal bias adjustments?

S.

[spendorman]

What's the power rating of 306 driving 4 ohm speakers?

Just out of curiosity does the 306 have internal bias adjustments?

S.

I don't know about the 306 performance in to 4 Ohms, but one of the points about current dumping was that there are no adjustments like bias setting needed. I never fully understood the dumping design.

[walpurgis]

What's the power rating of 306 driving 4 ohm speakers?

S.

70 watts before clipping. Driving the 306 hard into 4 ohms may trip the protection relay. It does no harm though and resets.

[southall-1998_mk2]

70 watts before clipping. Driving the 306 hard into 4 ohms may trip the protection relay. It does no harm though and resets.

Well plenty enough power for small - medium rooms.

S.

[mikmas]

I'd say £350 to £450 for the set depending on condition, but some ask more.


Don't know where those prices are from but based on eBay prices you'd be very lucky to get anywhere near those sort of sales for the 33/303 combo ... about £300 tops - maybe add £50 for the FM3 (all in near mint with original packing etc.)

Been waiting for an upsurge to sell a refurbished and Quad serviced 33 for over a year but prices remain stubbornly low.

Similar story for the 34/405-2 combo I bought a few years back, still pretty much at the same prices now. So much so that I'm hanging on to them.

[walpurgis]

Don't know where those prices are from

ebay.

[mikmas]

ebay.

Weird - over the last 3 months for the 33/303/FM3 set nothing really over £365 bar one exception at £725 (which looks to be a bidding war gone silly ....)

Many well below that.

Maybe I need a new search engine :lol:

[Mikeandvan]

Just been reading a bit more on passive pre amps. I read an article that said - if I remember correctly something about how you might encounter problems with having enough gain from a phono stage, a problem not encountered with active pre amps. Just wondering how well my Graham slee era V will work with the Khozmo/306. I just sold my Nak, which would have enabled me to increase the gain, doh! Oh well, may'be that won't be needed, but just trying to get a bit more info for going forward. Khozmo will be shipped in 2-3 days. Ebay seller said Quad was fine and not in need of service in their opinion, was a hifi dealer not a personal seller.

[Bigman80]

No issue generally. I've only experienced issues with really like output carts like the Denon 304.

What are you using?

[walpurgis]

Just wondering how well my Graham slee era V will work with the Khozmo/306

I reckon it'll work just fine. I really like the Era Gold V by the way, it's a very musical little unit, I should have kept mine, I preferred it to the more expensive Graham Slee Reflex M that replaced it..

My main concern would be the matching of the Khozmo with the rather sensitive input on the 306. There are ways to deal with a mismatch should it occur though. I'm reducing the input sensitivity on my 306 once the parts arrive.

[mikmas]

Just been reading a bit more on passive pre amps. I read an article that said - if I remember correctly something about how you might encounter problems with having enough gain from a phono stage, a problem not encountered with active pre amps. Just wondering how well my Graham slee era V will work with the Khozmo/306. I just sold my Nak, which would have enabled me to increase the gain, doh! Oh well, may'be that won't be needed, but just trying to get a bit more info for going forward. Khozmo will be shipped in 2-3 days. Ebay seller said Quad was fine and not in need of service in their opinion, was a hifi dealer not a personal seller.

Not had a problem with a lack of power using 'pot-in-box' passives into my Quad 405-2 and a Cambridge Audio CP2 phono stage - or anything else I've plugged in for that matter.

If anything there is too much (i.e. very little travel on the pot before it gets too loud)
The CP2 has a nominal 300mv output - no idea what the Era V does.

[walpurgis]

Not had a problem with a lack of power using 'pot-in-box' passives into my Quad 405-2 and a Cambridge Audio CP2 phono stage - or anything else I've plugged in for that matter.

If anything there is too much (i.e. very little travel on the pot before it gets too loud)
The CP2 has a nominal 300mv output - no idea what the Era V does.

You have a sensitivity mismatch between the signal through the passive to the 405-2 input. You may have a 20k or 50k pot (for instance) in the passive. Fitting a 500k may deal with this. It's something I intend to try myself.

[mikmas]

You have a sensitivity mismatch between the signal through the passive to the 405-2 input. You may have a 20k or 50k pot (for instance) in the passive. Fitting a 500k may deal with this. It's something I intend to try myself.


Yep - I did try a Keith Snook attentuator mod on the 405-2 for a while and that did the trick. In the end I prefer the Q 34 as phono/pre either way so the attenuation was no longer required (and removed)

[Mikeandvan]

No issue generally. I've only experienced issues with really like output carts like the Denon 304.

What are you using?

Nag MP 200

[Bigman80]

Nag MP 200Na, fine that is.

[Mikeandvan]

I reckon it'll work just fine. I really like the Era Gold V by the way, it's a very musical little unit, I should have kept mine, I preferred it to the more expensive Graham Slee Reflex M that replaced it..

My main concern would be the matching of the Khozmo with the rather sensitive input on the 306. There are ways to deal with a mismatch should it occur though. I'm reducing the input sensitivity on my 306 once the parts arrive.

How will I know if its mismatched?

[Mikeandvan]

Not had a problem with a lack of power using 'pot-in-box' passives into my Quad 405-2 and a Cambridge Audio CP2 phono stage - or anything else I've plugged in for that matter.

If anything there is too much (i.e. very little travel on the pot before it gets too loud)
The CP2 has a nominal 300mv output - no idea what the Era V does.

Me neither' I should read the box.

[Mikeandvan]

Na, fine that is.

The first cart I had I really like, and replacement styli are only £100 from Japan, good if your clumsy or like playing records drunk.

[Bigman80]

The first cart I had I really like, and replacement styli are only £100 from Japan, good if your clumsy or like playing records drunk.Lol

[Light Dependant Resistor]

I'm reducing the input sensitivity on my 306 once the parts arrive.

Unnecessary to change the input sensitivity, as the 306 is perfect already with passives.

[walpurgis]

Unnecessary to change the input sensitivity, as the 306 is perfect already with passives.

No. I've tried five pre-amps with the 306 including two passives. Each gives too much gain for convenient use.

[walpurgis]

How will I know if its mismatched?

The volume may roll in too sharply. It'll work, but perhaps rather abruptly.

[spendorman]

Quad 306 spec. is 0.375 V input for 50 W output into 8 Ohms.

[Bigman80]

The Khozmo has 48 steps and there is suitable control to listen in the evening without disturbing the nippers. Not sure how the Quad compares to the Krell in that sense but i cant foresee it being an issue. When i tried TVC/AVC, i couldnt get the volume low enough. Hence the decision to try something else.

[walpurgis]

Quad 306 spec. is 0.375 V input for 50 W output into 8 Ohms.

Yes. I plan to change that to 1.0 V. Shouldn't take long to do, the resistors are easy to reach.

http://i67.tinypic.com/16h1a54.png

[spendorman]

I sometime use this with the 303 if I want to reduce it's input sensitivity.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Audio-Controller-Universal-Car-Audio-Amplifier-Remote-RCA-Volume-Control-2018/183512155644

Interestingly the input sensitivity of the 303 is 0.5V for 45 W into 8 Ohms.

[walpurgis]

I sometime use this with the 303 if I want to reduce it's input sensitivity.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Audio-Controller-Universal-Car-Audio-Amplifier-Remote-RCA-Volume-Control-2018/183512155644

Interestingly the input sensitivity of the 303 is 0.5V for 45 W into 8 Ohms.

Ah yes. The cheapest passive pre-amp money can buy. I've used and made similar, they work.

[walpurgis]

Three quid for a passive pre-amp that works!

Here's a current listing: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Car-Home-Audio-Amplifier-Bass-RCA-Gain-Level-Volume-Control-Knob-LC-1-Black-X9N2/283023465577?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

[spendorman]

Three quid for a passive pre-amp that works!

Here's a current listing: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Car-Home-Audio-Amplifier-Bass-RCA-Gain-Level-Volume-Control-Knob-LC-1-Black-X9N2/283023465577?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

The channel balance of this pot seemed pretty good for such a cheap item.

[walpurgis]

The channel balance of this pot seemed pretty good for such a cheap item.

Did you check the pot value? It's not quoted. Bet it's around 20k.

[spendorman]

Did you check the pot value? It's not quoted. Bet it's around 20k.

Oh dear, yes I did and I can't remember the figure! I do remember that I thought it suitable. Also, not sure where I put the little device, might have to buy another! I'll look for it later today as I have to go out soon.

Using a Technics SU-V303 at the moment

http://www.audiovintage.fr/leforum/download/file.php?id=47466

[spendorman]

Did you check the pot value? It's not quoted. Bet it's around 20k.

Found it, twas plugged into the back of the Technics, lol!

Measures around 50K Ohms.

These may be of use with the attenuator.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Straight-AV-RCA-Male-to-Male-Connectors-Couplers-Adapters-6-Pcs-X5A1/202371065279

[walpurgis]

Found it, twas plugged into the back of the Technics, lol!

Measures around 50K Ohms

Should be OK with most power amps.

[Pepperamip]

I started looking for a 405-2 or 306 about a year ago and stumbled across a seller on ebay who completely reworks the internals, adds decent binding posts and resprays each unit. Picked up my 306 for £300 which is on the expensive side but worth it for the work done. There's no way I'd sell it on, it's a great little amp.

[Mikeandvan]

Quad 306 arrived today in very nice condition.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7854/47004807251_37aa1d90c6.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2eBDVze)IMG_20190206_115654023 (https://flic.kr/p/2eBDVze) by Mike Van (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145505522@N02/), on Flickr

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7841/46091056985_f2aed469b1_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2ddUHsi)IMG_20190206_115649873 (https://flic.kr/p/2ddUHsi) by Mike Van (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145505522@N02/), on Flickr

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7804/46091058525_875a034e54.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2ddUHUR)IMG_20190206_115510482 (https://flic.kr/p/2ddUHUR) by Mike Van (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145505522@N02/), on Flickr

[Bigman80]

Looks tidy.

[southall-1998_mk2]

Has anyone tried the BTE Designs Passive Pre with their 306? Good results?

S.

[Mikeandvan]

I sent Arek from Khozmo a quick email

"Hi Arek,
I plan to use this with a Quad 306 power amp. Sources are a Cd player, and a Turntable via a Graham Slee Era Gold V phono amp, I also have a streamer for occasional use. Would all this be ok? I was a bit worried the phono stage compatibility with the Khozmo concerning gain.
Thank you."

His reply

Hi Michael


I this case I would use the series type attenuator which has constant input impedance.

Best regards
Arek Kallas

What does he mean?!

[Bigman80]

I sent Arek from Khozmo a quick email

"Hi Arek,
I plan to use this with a Quad 306 power amp. Sources are a Cd player, and a Turntable via a Graham Slee Era Gold V phono amp, I also have a streamer for occasional use. Would all this be ok? I was a bit worried the phono stage compatibility with the Khozmo concerning gain.
Thank you."

His reply

Hi Michael


I this case I would use the series type attenuator which has constant input impedance.

Best regards
Arek Kallas

What does he mean?!He's right.

It's how the source sees the load. It's what I use.

50K is a good "all round" value.

[Mikeandvan]

He's right.

It's how the source sees the load. It's what I use.

50K is a good "all round" value.

OK I see from his website, there are 3 types of attenuators, shunt, ladder, series. I don't know what type comes with the pre amp I ordered, doesn't say in the product description. https://www.khozmo.com/stereo_selector.html

[Bigman80]

OK I see from his website, there are 3 types of attenuators, shunt, ladder, series. I don't know what type comes with the pre amp I ordered, doesn't say in the product description. https://www.khozmo.com/stereo_selector.htmlThat's ok, just request a series. Arek is a good guy. He'll send what you ask for.

[walpurgis]

50K is a bit low for use with the 306. I've tried it. My 20K Little bear passive is more or less unusable with one.

I'll be ordering a 500K pot or stepped attenuator for a try-out, should do the job I think.

[Bigman80]

50K is a bit low for use with the 306. I've tried it. My 20K Little bear passive is more or less unusable with one.

I'll be ordering a 500K pot or stepped attenuator for a try-out, should do the job I think.Fair enough. I was thinking for Valve or SS. Not sure of the individual merit with the Quad.

[Mikeandvan]

50K is a bit low for use with the 306. I've tried it. My 20K Little bear passive is more or less unusable with one.

I'll be ordering a 500K pot or stepped attenuator for a try-out, should do the job I think.

Hi Geoff, thanks for your advice. To a novice 500k seems quite a jump from 50k, can you explain it for me please?

[walpurgis]

Hi Geoff, thanks for your advice. To a novice 500k seems quite a jump from 50k, can you explain it for me please?

Just a shot in the dark on my part. I'll find out how well it works when I try it. I may order a pot in the next day or so. I could get a 500k stepped attenuator, but they cost rather more. A pot will show me if the value suits for not much money (I'm a tight git :)).

[Mikeandvan]

Just a shot in the dark on my part. I'll find out how well it works when I try it. I may order a pot in the next day or so. I could get a 500k stepped attenuator, but they cost rather more. A pot will show me if the value suits for not much money (I'm a tight git :)).

Is it 500 steps on the volume? or just 10x more gain? This may be another Dianne abbot moment.:scratch:

[STD305M]

Hi Mike

Yep, another Dianne Abbot moment:)

The pot in your preamp when it arrives, if you ordered the standard setup, will be 20k to 50k.

It states it when you order.

[walpurgis]

Is it 500 steps on the volume? or just 10x more gain?

10x less gain. Progessively more resistance to the signal.

[STD305M]

The attenuator in the preamp you bought is not the usual 50k series.
Not the same as mine or Olivers.
Its basically a stripped down version,
Caddock Mk132 + Vishay/Dale RN55.
They still sound good but are only between 20 and 50k.
There was an option to get upto 200k if you selected it.

The one you ordered is a series attenuator..
Steve

[Mikeandvan]

The attenuator in the preamp you bought is not the usual 50k series.
Not the same as mine or Olivers.
Its basically a stripped down version,
Caddock Mk132 + Vishay/Dale RN55.
They still sound good but are only between 20 and 50k.
There was an option to get upto 200k if you selected it.

The one you ordered is a series attenuator..
Steve

No actually I ordered a 10k one, I had no idea when ordering there was this option! I have emailed Arek!

[Bigman80]

The attenuator in the preamp you bought is not the usual 50k series.
Not the same as mine or Olivers.
Its basically a stripped down version,
Caddock Mk132 + Vishay/Dale RN55.
They still sound good but are only between 20 and 50k.
There was an option to get upto 200k if you selected it.

The one you ordered is a series attenuator..
Steve
Spec:

Inputs:*3;*Outputs:*2 (for biamping)*
Dimensions:*W255mm x H70mm x D210mm;*Weight:*2,5kg*
Attenuator:*48 steps; Input selector switch:*Lorlin UK*
Resistors:*AMRG Trans+ Vishay SMD;Wiring:*Solid silver

[Mikeandvan]

Managed to get hold of Arek, he recommends 50k, said there's no such thing as 500K!

[walpurgis]

Managed to get hold of Arek, he recommends 50k, said there's no such thing as 500K!

Seems he doesn't know what he's talking about if that's so.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Japan-ALPS-RK27-500KAX2-LOG-Stereo-Volume-Potentiometer-Dual-500K-Slotted-Shaft/232308142690?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/500KAX2-DALE-23-Step-DIY-Attenuator-Dual-500K-Stereo-HiFi-Volume-Potentiometer/232309101000?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

[Firebottle]

But neither of those are Khozmo stepped attenuators.

[Mikeandvan]

Seems he doesn't know what he's talking about if that's so.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Japan-ALPS-RK27-500KAX2-LOG-Stereo-Volume-Potentiometer-Dual-500K-Slotted-Shaft/232308142690?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/500KAX2-DALE-23-Step-DIY-Attenuator-Dual-500K-Stereo-HiFi-Volume-Potentiometer/232309101000?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

Well, he said he doesn't make them anyway.

[Bigman80]

50k has worked into 5 different Amps here. I expect it to be fine.

[STD305M]

Managed to get hold of Arek, he recommends 50k, said there's no such thing as 500K!

HiMike
I never said there was.

I said there was an option for 200k

Steve

[Mikeandvan]

HiMike
I never said there was.

I said there was an option for 200k

Steve

I was referring to a post by Walpurgis. Arek recommends 50k, but I don't know whether it would be better requesting 100k or 200k.

[Mikeandvan]

Seems he doesn't know what he's talking about if that's so.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Japan-ALPS-RK27-500KAX2-LOG-Stereo-Volume-Potentiometer-Dual-500K-Slotted-Shaft/232308142690?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/500KAX2-DALE-23-Step-DIY-Attenuator-Dual-500K-Stereo-HiFi-Volume-Potentiometer/232309101000?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
What would you recommend Geoff? 50, 100 or 200k? I use a g slee which doesn't have adjustable gain, as well as the usual cdp and streamer.

[walpurgis]

What would you recommend Geoff? 50, 100 or 200k? I use a g slee which doesn't have adjustable gain, as well as the usual cdp and streamer.

I'm not recommending anything until I've done a few try-outs.

[walpurgis]

50k has worked into 5 different Amps here

Maybe, but how many of them had 0.375V input sensitivity?

[Bigman80]

Maybe, but how many of them had 0.375V input sensitivity?Hmm, probably none.

[walpurgis]

Hmm, probably none.

Anyway. I decided a 500k pot was possibly too radical, so I've ordered a 250k one. I'll see how that shapes up when it gets here. If that works OK, I may order a stepped attenuator of the same value.

[Mikeandvan]

I'm not recommending anything until I've done a few try-outs.

Fair enough. I'll just order 50k then. What's the case with passive pre amps and Quad? Is 50k the norm?

[Mikeandvan]

Maybe, but how many of them had 0.375V input sensitivity?

Is o.375v the same as 375mV ? I just want to let Arek know, in case he has no experience of Quad 306.

[Firebottle]

Yes the same.

[Mikeandvan]

Thinking of knocking the Khozmo on the head, I'm thinking its too revealing for my rather budget system. I really want something to take the edge off of that scratchy 60s beat/rock that I love. :scratch:

[fatmarley]

Thinking of knocking the Khozmo on the head, I'm thinking its too revealing for my rather budget system. I really want something to take the edge off of that scratchy 60s beat/rock that I love. :scratch:

The 306 should take the edge off (it's mainly down to the carbon resistors in the signal path). I'd personally want to have the most transparent preamp I could get because that is often the weak link. Saying that, i'm perfectly happy with the Little Bear, so maybe transparency doesn't have to cost a fortune.

I'm not familiar with your CDP but they can often give a digital sound (thin or a bit etched in the high frequencies). The Avondale Arcam CDP has quite a nice analogue sound.