Advice on Quad power amps.

[walpurgis]

i'm perfectly happy with the Little Bear, so maybe transparency doesn't have to cost a fortune.

The Little Bear is very clear and transparent, unfortunately the 20K pot fitted in mine does not suit the Quad 306, but works OK with my other power amps. It also sounds a sight nicer than the Tisbury I had for a short spell.

[Macca]

Thinking of knocking the Khozmo on the head, I'm thinking its too revealing for my rather budget system. I really want something to take the edge off of that scratchy 60s beat/rock that I love. :scratch:

So that's not working out either? You could try a Marantz CD player. I've got a 67SE here, it practically remixes the recording but there are no hard edges at all. Great for some music, odd with others.

If that doesn't work it's blanket over the speakers time ;)


You're not using some weird speaker cable are you?

[walpurgis]

You could have a look for a NAD 1020 pre-amp. That has a pretty innocuous sound and they can usually be picked up for around £100.

[Mikeandvan]

The Little Bear is very clear and transparent, unfortunately the 20K pot fitted in mine does not suit the Quad 306, but works OK with my other power amps. It also sounds a sight nicer than the Tisbury I had for a short spell.

Geoff, could you possibly make sense of this info I read on another forum about the 306, concerning attenuator loading? I thought it needed a higher rating, like 50K. Thanks.
"I tried mine with a couple of Audio Synthesis passive preamps, which are similarly very high quality stepped attenuators. It works very well. The 306 sensitivity is perfect for passive, the input impedance a little low at 20k IIRC, so assuming nice low impedance sources best to go with a 10k attenuator. Choose low capacitance and ideally short interconnects and you will have a great amp combo.The Khozmos are very good IMHO.

[walpurgis]

Not really. Not having used the passives mentioned I can't say.

I can lend you a 20K Little Bear to try if you like. You'll see what I've been getting at.

[Mikeandvan]

So that's not working out either? You could try a Marantz CD player. I've got a 67SE here, it practically remixes the recording but there are no hard edges at all. Great for some music, odd with others.

If that doesn't work it's blanket over the speakers time ;)


You're not using some weird speaker cable are you?

Sorry I haven't got the Khozmo yet, told Arek to put it on hold. I'm thinking its too hifi for my set up.

[Mikeandvan]

Not really. Not having used the passives mentioned I can't say.

I can lend you a 20K Little Bear to try if you like. You'll see what I've been getting at.

Thanks Geoff, I'll consider that.

[fatmarley]

Thanks Geoff, I'll consider that.

They only cost about £25 delivered. You should get one just to use as a reference for anything else you try.

[Macca]

Sorry I haven't got the Khozmo yet, told Arek to put it on hold. I'm thinking its too hifi for my set up.

My experience has been that if you improve the quality of the system the older, dodgier recordings get better - not in terms of fidelity but they start to make more sense as music. Deliberately hobbling the system in an attempt to make them listenable is not the way to go. Like I said you might as well just put blankets over the speakers and have done with it.

[walpurgis]

They only cost about £25 delivered. You should get one just to use as a reference for anything else you try.

That's why I have one. Sounds decent enough anyway.

[fatmarley]

That's why I have one. Sounds decent enough anyway.

Just wish it had a remote.

[Mikeandvan]

That's why I have one. Sounds decent enough anyway.

What's the model called? Threre seem to be many on Ebay ta.

[walpurgis]

What's the model called? Threre seem to be many on Ebay ta.

The main differences are the cases, some metal and some plastic and some sellers offer different pot values. I have the MC2 plastic cased version with 20K pot.

[fatmarley]

This is the one I have - LINK (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Little-Bear-MC2-XLR-RCA-Balanced-Passive-Preamp-Volume-Controller-converter/292819757955?hash=item442d6aeb83:g:iugAAOSwxAxa3fF l:rk:2:pf:1&frcectupt=true)

[Mikeandvan]

This is the one I have - LINK (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Little-Bear-MC2-XLR-RCA-Balanced-Passive-Preamp-Volume-Controller-converter/292819757955?hash=item442d6aeb83:g:iugAAOSwxAxa3fF l:rk:2:pf:1&frcectupt=true)

Thanks.

[fatmarley]

Just checked. Looks like R13 needs to be 27R for 1.0V input sensitivity on the 306. Nice and easy to reach. What rating resistors did you use?

Just found my notes and it looks like I used 47R.

[Mikeandvan]

This is the one I have - LINK (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Little-Bear-MC2-XLR-RCA-Balanced-Passive-Preamp-Volume-Controller-converter/292819757955?hash=item442d6aeb83:g:iugAAOSwxAxa3fF l:rk:2:pf:1&frcectupt=true)

Just ordered one thanks, is that the pre you use with yours? I think I'll cancel the Khozmo for now, I'm getting completely conflicting advice on the pot value, PFM say 10K, AOS says 50k+!

[Bigman80]

Just ordered one thanks, is that the pre you use with yours? I think I'll cancel the Khozmo for now, I'm getting completely conflicting advice on the pot value, PFM say 10K, AOS says 50k+!Do what makes you happy mate. Geoff is a bit of a tannoy/quad expert in my book.

What did arek say about use with the quad?

[fatmarley]

Just ordered one thanks, is that the pre you use with yours? I think I'll cancel the Khozmo for now, I'm getting completely conflicting advice on the pot value, PFM say 10K, AOS says 50k+!

Yes that's the one.

Out of all the people posting in these threads, here and over at pinkfish, Jez (Arkless Electronics) is probably the most qualified person to answer your question.

[Simon_LDT]

Looks like the Quad has a 20k input impedance so ideally you'll want a 10k attenuator. If your sources are solid state they should be under 100ohm output impedance so you'lll be good to go with that. I know there are different opinions on this subject but imo the basics are that the pot you use needs to have a higher resistance than your source output and lower than the power amps input.

For example, mine currently is 47ohm for my source/s > 10k attenuator > 22k power amp.

[Barry]

Looks like the Quad has a 20k input impedance so ideally you'll want a 10k attenuator. If your sources are solid state they should be under 100ohm output impedance so you'lll be good to go with that. I know there are different opinions on this subject but imo the basics are that the pot you use needs to have a higher resistance than your source output and lower than the power amps input.

For example, mine currently is 47ohm for my source/s > 10k attenuator > 22k power amp.

Agreed - nothing wrong with your reasoning there. :)

[montesquieu]

Ah!

Tom bought an Asian Pass labs amp. That is probably spot on for this.

Can't find a link so maybe tom can chip in?

Pass was sold to Edward :) it’s 20w single ended, quite a beefy 20w but Ruarks though nominally sensitive do need a bit of current up them.

If this were me I’d give the old stuff a miss and think about a Quad Veena mk2 or even a second hand Quad Artera - depending which config suits you best. The mk2 Veena even has a decent MM phono stage ideal for that cartridge.

I never liked the 405 and a lot of these old Quads are getting to need some TLC now. I’m skeptical unless you have sentimental reasons for staying with one.

[mikmas]

If this were me I’d give the old stuff a miss and think about a Quad Veena mk2 or even a second hand Quad Artera - depending which config suits you best. The mk2 Veena even has a decent MM phono stage ideal for that cartridge.

Having followed the very convoluted journey on this thread I would tend to agree ....

The older Quads do require some dedication (and often a fair bit of fettling) and given the confusion Mike is facing over something seemingly straightforward like a pot value ... let alone a matching DAC ... I would be inclined to a much simpler solution.
As he already has a GS phono stage the first generation Quad Vena would be ideal - and in the long run probably cheaper. I have one and the output certainly reaches the same spots as my older iterations - but also has the advantage of a very versatile DAC and aptX Bluetooth.

Can't go far wrong really.

[Mikeandvan]

Having followed the very convoluted journey on this thread I would tend to agree ....

The older Quads do require some dedication (and often a fair bit of fettling) and given the confusion Mike is facing over something seemingly straightforward like a pot value ... let alone a matching DAC ... I would be inclined to a much simpler solution.
As he already has a GS phono stage the first generation Quad Vena would be ideal - and in the long run probably cheaper. I have one and the output certainly reaches the same spots as my older iterations - but also has the advantage of a very versatile DAC and aptX Bluetooth.

Can't go far wrong really.

Well, I've only just bought the 306, so I'll see how I get on with it. A lot of people like it. Can that Vena really be any good at only £600?

[walpurgis]

Can that Vena really be any good at only £600?

It doesn't appeal to me really. I like the British built units, in particular the current dumping power amps. The Vena is built in the far east I believe.

[mikmas]

Can that Vena really be any good at only £600?

Definitely - If I had to choose between my Vena or running my 405-2 with a passive and a DAC, I would probably opt for the Vena over the hassle and cable tangle of the latter.
I have had the first version for 18 months now and have found it to be pretty much faultless in it's musicality and versatility but the Quad Vena II has had improvements on top of that (added phono stage and beefed up trafo for starters).

Don't just take my word for it - PM Grant (struth) and get his opinion. He recently bought the Vena II and seems to be well impressed with its performance.

[Mikeandvan]

Definitely - If I had to choose between my Vena or running my 405-2 with a passive and a DAC, I would probably opt for the Vena over the hassle and cable tangle of the latter.
I have had the first version for 18 months now and have found it to be pretty much faultless in it's musicality and versatility but the Quad Vena II has had improvements on top of that (added phono stage and beefed up trafo for starters).

Don't just take my word for it - PM Grant (struth) and get his opinion. He recently bought the Vena II and seems to be well impressed with its performance.

Thanks Mike, I'll look into it.

[montesquieu]

Definitely - If I had to choose between my Vena or running my 405-2 with a passive and a DAC, I would probably opt for the Vena over the hassle and cable tangle of the latter.
I have had the first version for 18 months now and have found it to be pretty much faultless in it's musicality and versatility but the Quad Vena II has had improvements on top of that (added phono stage and beefed up trafo for starters).

Don't just take my word for it - PM Grant (struth) and get his opinion. He recently bought the Vena II and seems to be well impressed with its performance.

Totally agree. I heard the original Vena at the Bristol show and was really very taken with it. Been pondering ever since.

However, now the MK2 is out and has a phono stage I'm tempted to replace much of the entire second system with one ... my biggest challenge is what CDP or transport to run with it that won't detract from its cool looks. (My Sony CDP555ES just dwarfs it but maybe that's not an issue).

[mikmas]

Thanks Mike, I'll look into it.

:thumbsup:

... forgot to mention ... it also has pre-out so you could run it through your 306 and just use the Vena as DAC/Preamp.... with remote control too :)

If you keep your GS phono stage you should be able to pick up the first model for between £300-400 (last one on here sold for £350 as I recall - was immaculate)

[montesquieu]

:thumbsup:

... forgot to mention ... it also has pre-out so you could run it through your 306 and just use the Vena as DAC/Preamp.... with remote control too :)

If you keep your GS phono stage you should be able to pick up the first model for between £300-400 (last one on here sold for £350 as I recall - was immaculate)

Didn't know it had pre-out. That's handy.

[Mikeandvan]

The little bear has arrived but I cannot connect the speaker cables to the 306 as the speaking sockets are loose, I connect, put lid on, then one or two of the cables come loose again, utter shite.

[walpurgis]

Is it your plugs? That's more likely.

[spendorman]

Some of the Quad 4mm speaker sockets are a bit weak and break. About 1987 I bought the 405-2 upgrade for my 405, it included 4mm sockets to replace the original connector clips. Some years on, when plugging a 4mm plug, one of the sockets gave way and ended up pushed inside the amp. When I fitted the sockets, I did not over tighten the socket securing nuts.

[fatmarley]

If you mean the 4mm banana plugs are loose in the 306 sockets, i'd imagine it's the fault of the banana plugs. Are they Naim plugs? I've messed about with them in the past and got to work properly. IIRC I just pushed something in the end to force the springy bit of metal out (sorry I don't know the technical name).

[Edward]

The little bear has arrived but I cannot connect the speaker cables to the 306 as the speaking sockets are loose, I connect, put lid on, then one or two of the cables come loose again, utter shite.

Don't understand why you are taking the 'lid' off Mike.

For loose speaker post connections obviously best to have them replaced when you can, but in the meantime suggest you use some form of strong tape (e.g. gorilla tape) to keep the banana posts bound to the amp speaker posts.

[Mikeandvan]

Is it your plugs? That's more likely.

no, i can plainly see the sockets in the 306 are loose, and there's no way of getting them secure.

[walpurgis]

I've just had a look at the sockets on my 306. They are an older design with thin walled receptacle tubes. If you open the case you can crimp them gently with narrow nosed pliers to tighten them.

Should you wish to replace them, there is only one seller on ebay with these and there are eight pairs left: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Panel-Mount-Test-Sockets-4mm-Red-Black-banana-plug-chassis-round-solder-tag/113665960752?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

I just ordered myself a couple of pairs actually :).

[spendorman]

Found these

https://www.rapidonline.com/Catalogue/Product?Id=17-1935

[spendorman]

And these

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10Pcs-Brass-4mm-Female-Jack-Chassis-Panel-Mount-Binding-Post-Socket-Connector/32805682243.html

[Mikeandvan]

Thanks to the above replies & links. I've managed to connect the speaker plugs now, although the 306 sockets will need fixing. Listening through the little bear its ok, bit more pronounced than the Nait 5, but there's a slight harshness to the sound. I guess a pre amp costing £25 is never gonna be up to much?

[walpurgis]

My 306 doesn't sound "hard". What speaker cables are you using?

[fatmarley]

I've had Naim amps sound hard or harsh but the 306 with little bear is as smooth as silk. If anything, i'd say the 306 is a little too smooth for some peoples tastes.
Although i've never heard the Ruark Talisman II, they used to get recommended all the time over at Hifiwigwam, so i'd be surprised if they were to blame - very strange...

[Mikeandvan]

My 306 doesn't sound "hard". What speaker cables are you using?

Dunno, got some free from someone on here!

[Mikeandvan]

I've had Naim amps sound hard or harsh but the 306 with little bear is as smooth as silk. If anything, i'd say the 306 is a little too smooth for some peoples tastes.
Although i've never heard the Ruark Talisman II, they used to get recommended all the time over at Hifiwigwam, so i'd be surprised if they were to blame - very strange...

What source do you use?

[fatmarley]

What source do you use?


What source do you use?

Mine's a PS3 into a modified Cambridge Audio Dacmagic. The Avondale or Net-Audio modified Arcam alpha 5 or 5+ is very smooth but not at all dull. How does your record player sound compared to your CDP?

As Geoff said, i'd also find out what cable you are using (RCA and speaker). Some can have a strange affect on the sound, especially if they have silver in them. Flashback sales do good, cheap RCA cables. Chord Chrysilis doesn't do anything odd to the sound IMO, but you can only buy them secondhand. Lots of people swear by Van Damme speaker cable but I found it a touch soft (could have been my imagination). I now use TALK 3 speaker cable but also keep some Belden 8471 for speaker building.

[Mikeandvan]

Mine's a PS3 into a modified Cambridge Audio Dacmagic. The Avondale or Net-Audio modified Arcam alpha 5 or 5+ is very smooth but not at all dull. How does your record player sound compared to your CDP?

As Geoff said, i'd also find out what cable you are using (RCA and speaker). Some can have a strange affect on the sound, especially if they have silver in them. Flashback sales do good, cheap RCA cables. Chord Chrysilis doesn't do anything odd to the sound IMO, but you can only buy them secondhand. Lots of people swear by Van Damme speaker cable but I found it a touch soft (could have been my imagination). I now use TALK 3 speaker cable but also keep some Belden 8471 for speaker building.

I use 2 sets of 'straightwire' rca cables - in and out. I took a photo of the speaker cable, I can't find any brand name on it, might be a good idea if I buy some new decent speaker cable anyway. Your source - ps3, what is that? CD as ever sounds slightly harsher than vinyl, but that just the medium right?

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7836/46322675985_5125b5a1b5.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2dznPHk)IMG_20190228_121208583 (https://flic.kr/p/2dznPHk) by Mike Van (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145505522@N02/), on Flickr
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7881/40272195293_33f68fdb86.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/24mHwAH)IMG_20190228_121203595 (https://flic.kr/p/24mHwAH) by Mike Van (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145505522@N02/), on Flickr

[southall-1998_mk2]

Those speaker cables look like cheap crap!

S.

[STD305M]

Hi Mike
Unless you have changed them since I was over your cable was Naim Nac 5


QED Xt40 will tame any harshness
I have some if you want to try

Steve

[fatmarley]

Your source - ps3, what is that? CD as ever sounds slightly harsher than vinyl, but that just the medium right?


Playstation 3. If CD sounds a bit thin or slightly harsh then it's adding distortion. I had a Naim CD3.5 that could sound rough in a revealing system (was great in a less revealing system). An AAA5 was the answer (Avondale Arcam Alpha 5). My Dacmagic was also a bit rough until I turbo charged it with Teddy Regs on opamps and a pinkfish flea feeding the clock.

[spendorman]

Those speaker cables look like cheap crap!

S.

I hope I don't start an argument, but it looks like suitable copper wire.

[walpurgis]

I hope I don't start an argument, but it looks like suitable copper wire.

Nothing wrong with a bit of multistrand copper. My own cables are no beefier than those and they sound excellent.

[Bigman80]

Speaker wire:

Fisual S-FLEX 4mm. Was £2.50 per meter.

Unless you spend a fair amount of money (£250+), they are unbeatable.

[karma67]

The fisual is shit in my system (sorry Oliver). I have the Hollywood twist and super pearl. Your welcome to try both.

[Bigman80]

The fisual is shit in my system (sorry Oliver). I have the Hollywood twist and super pearl. Your welcome to try both.[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] is that the S-FLEX?

Got to be honest, it's battered a few higher priced alternatives here.

[struth]

The fisual is shit in my system (sorry Oliver). I have the Hollywood twist and super pearl. Your welcome to try both.

Ive had all 3... may still have, not sure but I did find the latest s-flex the better

[karma67]

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] is that the S-FLEX?

Got to be honest, it's battered a few higher priced alternatives here.

Maybe but I’m only talking about my system, I’ve used van Damme Hifi grade for ages.

[Bigman80]

Maybe but I’m only talking about my system, I’ve used van Damme Hifi grade for ages.Nah, what you hear is what you hear. No argument from me.

[karma67]

actually shit is too strong,i do prefer the van damme ,open to recommendations as always though :)

[southall-1998_mk2]

Van Damme cables are decent.

S.

[Edward]

I'm still using cables I bought more than two decades ago. Quad QLSCF2. Time for a change? :)

[Mikeandvan]

The 306/little bear is definitely sounding a bit rough, not a keeper in its current state. Get a better pre may'be?

[Light Dependant Resistor]

The 306/little bear is definitely sounding a bit rough, not a keeper in its current state. Get a better pre may'be?

With contact-less switching / volume , makes all the difference.

[fatmarley]

The little bear can't add distortion the same way an active preamp can. Passives do sound different but your pre/power is definitely not what's causing the problem you're hearing, unless there's a fault.

[Macca]

The little bear can't add distortion the same way an active preamp can. Passives do sound different but your pre/power is definitely not what's causing the problem you're hearing, unless there's a fault.

Exactly and neither can speakers cables or interconnects. So all that leaves is source and speakers, one or both must have problems.

[Light Dependant Resistor]

The little bear can't add distortion the same way an active preamp can. Passives do sound different but your pre/power is definitely not what's causing the problem you're hearing, unless there's a fault.

This shows otherwise: https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/alps-potentiometers-gain-and-distortion.68076/
Thankfully you do not need contacts involved with attenuation, its just a matter of making the better choice.

[Bigman80]

This shows otherwise: https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/alps-potentiometers-gain-and-distortion.68076/
Thankfully you do not need contacts involved with attenuation, its just a matter of making the better choice.I've been saying for what seems like yonks now, that potentiometers like the Alps (especially the Alps) are the bottleneck in any system. They are fitted because of the cheap cost, reliability and channel balance accuracy. NOT because they are best for the sound. It's understandable. £11 for an Alps blue compared to £200 for a top class stepped attenuator.

Thanks for posting that link.

I'm hoping to get a listen to the Stereo Coffee shortly and will be doing a DCB1 v The Truth preamp bakeoff next week.

[Mikeandvan]

Exactly and neither can speakers cables or interconnects. So all that leaves is source and speakers, one or both must have problems.

Is there anyway I can check my speakers for faults? Apart from listening of course!

[struth]

could be the main amp easily. i agree a passive shouldnt give that effect.

[Macca]

Is there anyway I can check my speakers for faults? Apart from listening of course!

Swap in another pair is the simplest way. Don't need to be anything fancy, just a set that are known to be 100% - it could be a loose connection somewhere in the speakers, it could also be an issue with your cdp so if you can substitute there as well you can narrow down the issue.

[Pepperamip]

Mike am I right in thinking this is the first time you've used both the pre and power in any circumstances? If so you might have a prob with the 306 however unlikely that is with it's tank like build. If you have access to your old amp I'd stick that back in just to pin point it to either of the two newbies.

[zzag]

I've been enjoying reading this thread.

[fatmarley]

Is there anyway I can check my speakers for faults? Apart from listening of course!

Not without measurement gear.

Edit: You can check for voice coil rub by pushing the midbass cone in with your hand to check for scraping.

[Mikeandvan]

Its the same with TT and CDP, may'be the speakers then, or my expectations? May'be my mains supply is dirty, I live above a restaurant. How can the speakers be at fault though? just being 2 sealed units within a wooden enclosure?

[STD305M]

Yo can get issues with the coils if theres any sagging. If there is any rubbing when you gently push in the cone of the speaker there could be a problem.
As Martin suggested try another pair of speaker even if they are cheap and nasty just to check for distortion.
If theres no distortion it would suggest your main speakers are ok.

Steve

[Macca]

Loose connections internally could also cause distortion. Not ripping distortion but a slight rough edge to the sound. I've had that happen.

[Mikeandvan]

Loose connections internally could also cause distortion. Not ripping distortion but a slight rough edge to the sound. I've had that happen.
I just took the alan keys out of the speaker units (tweeter and bass), pulled them both out, but not much to see. Can't see how to get access to the crossovers, if they have them.

[Mikeandvan]

TBH, listening to the Beach boys 'Pet sounds' on vinyl now, there is a clarity yet a slight rawness to the sound, on other stuff like the stones its more pronounced.

[Macca]

I just took the alan keys out of the speaker units (tweeter and bass), pulled them both out, but not much to see. Can't see how to get access to the crossovers, if they have them.

In my case it was loose connections between the binding posts and the crossovers.

[Mikeandvan]

Listening to Moby Grape now ,1 st lp, some tracks sounding mighty fine, the more scratchy gutair driven ones a little bit ruff. I'm thinking the 306 might be worth keeping and tinkering around with , speaker cables, whatever else, pre amp etc. SOme tracks sounding mighty fine, transparency is the most obvious improvement, but still that rawness. Mind you this is all on vinyl, cd is another thing...…..May'be next step cd wise is a new dac. Reccomendations please under £200. Bushford?

[spendorman]

One point, I've only on occasions heard live music (despite working for Boosey and Hawkes in their Tech Office, designing instruments), but when I did hear live music, it's not necessarily smooth, pretty sharp actually.

[fatmarley]

A lot of people seem to like the Baresford Caiman (http://www.homehifi.co.uk/S/tc-7535.htm).

[Edward]

Perhaps Mike your system is now so revealing that you are now detecting poor original recordings?

§

[Mikeandvan]

A lot of people seem to like the Baresford Caiman (http://www.homehifi.co.uk/S/tc-7535.htm).

Thanks.

[donmarrese]

Good amps. The Mk.II is the one to aim for. More than enough power and manages a relaxed sound with smooth top end without being dull.Ditto...last of decent Quad Amps was the 606 MK2 ..were made in UK..had Toroidal's rather than EL_cores..decent caps..rest are like marmite...

Sent from my ONE A2003 using Tapatalk

[mikeyb]

Ditto...last of decent Quad Amps was the 606 MK2 ..were made in UK..had Toroidal's rather than EL_cores..decent caps..rest are like marmite...

Sent from my ONE A2003 using TapatalkOne on eBay right now, not mine, it was there yesterday [emoji6]

[Firebottle]

..May'be next step cd wise is a new dac. Reccomendations please under £200.

You could try a Topping D30 dac, they are less than £100.

Steve STD305? has mine atm, you are pretty close to him I believe, borrow it if you want to try it. I might sell it as well.

[Barry]

Ditto...last of decent Quad Amps was the 606 MK2 ..were made in UK..had Toroidal's rather than EL_cores..decent caps..rest are like marmite...

Sent from my ONE A2003 using Tapatalk

Nothing wrong with bi-limboid transformers or those using EI cores. Toroidal transformers are not the ne plus ultra that some would have you believe.

Agree about the capacitors. The Chinese sourced ones used in the later Quad designs are poor.

[Mikeandvan]

A lot of people seem to like the Baresford Caiman (http://www.homehifi.co.uk/S/tc-7535.htm).

Was bidding on one on Ebay, but it went for £190!! They're only £210 new!

[Mikeandvan]

Just got two 3m lengths of QED XT40 speaker cable, so at least now I know what speaker cable I actually have! I got mine 'virgin', that is I didn't take advantage of the company that sold it to me 'cable run in service', lol. Anyway, see if it makes any difference.....

[spendorman]

I like these quotes, supposedly, and likely by Peter Walker, the founder of Quad.

"When Peter Walker first revealed his Quad ESLs to the audio press he forgot to bring along cables. While his assistants were setting up he dashed out to a local hardware store and grabbed some appropriate cords. He snipped the ends off of, stripped them and connected them. After the presentation many of the reviewers were as curious about the cables as they were about the speakers, thinking that these orange cables they'd never seen before must have had something to do with the marvellous result. And so Walker was queried as to the brand, to which he truthfully replied: "Black and Decker!"


When asked to list some of the best speaker cables, Peter Walker replied:

"The best kind are those that conduct electricity."

[Mikeandvan]

I like these quotes, supposedly, and likely by Peter Walker, the founder of Quad.

"When Peter Walker first revealed his Quad ESLs to the audio press he forgot to bring along cables. While his assistants were setting up he dashed out to a local hardware store and grabbed some appropriate cords. He snipped the ends off of, stripped them and connected them. After the presentation many of the reviewers were as curious about the cables as they were about the speakers, thinking that these orange cables they'd never seen before must have had something to do with the marvellous result. And so Walker was queried as to the brand, to which he truthfully replied: "Black and Decker!"


When asked to list some of the best speaker cables, Peter Walker replied:

"The best kind are those that conduct electricity."

Here we go...………, whatever you do don't start another 'cable war'.:lol:

[spendorman]

Here we go...………, whatever you do don't start another 'cable war'.:lol:

Well, I concede that people hear things differently, I happen to agree with the Peter Walker thoughts. Just think of that ordinary thin copper wire in the speaker coils, and if using a valve amp the copper wire in the primary and secondary of the output transformers.

Now if we are talking microwave frequencies, things happen in a strange way. I worked in Microwave communications for 20 years, things are not quite so simple there.

[Barry]

I like these quotes, supposedly, and likely by Peter Walker, the founder of Quad.

"When Peter Walker first revealed his Quad ESLs to the audio press he forgot to bring along cables. While his assistants were setting up he dashed out to a local hardware store and grabbed some appropriate cords. He snipped the ends off of, stripped them and connected them. After the presentation many of the reviewers were as curious about the cables as they were about the speakers, thinking that these orange cables they'd never seen before must have had something to do with the marvellous result. And so Walker was queried as to the brand, to which he truthfully replied: "Black and Decker!"


When asked to list some of the best speaker cables, Peter Walker replied:

"The best kind are those that conduct electricity."

Peter Walker is also claimed to have said, when asked which were the most important things one should bear in mind when choosing speaker cables:

"Most importantly, they should be long enough to be able to reach the speakers from the amplifier."

and

"The second most important aspect, is that the colour of the cable insulation should match that of the carpet over which they run."

I may have not reported his words verbatim, but you get the drift. :)

[IHP]

I've never entered a cable debate, and never will. In this I am not stating a view...………when I displayed my system at Scalford a few years back (Harbeth P3ESRs, Croft amps, Quad CD) I needed to borrow some cables as mine are under the floorboards. I forgot to post a favour request and on the Saturday before the show bought some 35p a metre bell wire from the local hardware store. The day was a success :)

To get back OT, don't forget the humble 303. I have an Amplabs serviced one and it's my favourite power amp. This is against a 405-2 and 306. I may have posted this earlier, can't remember, but worth considering.

[Mikeandvan]

I've never entered a cable debate, and never will. In this I am not stating a view...………when I displayed my system at Scalford a few years back (Harbeth P3ESRs, Croft amps, Quad CD) I needed to borrow some cables as mine are under the floorboards. I forgot to post a favour request and on the Saturday before the show bought some 35p a metre bell wire from the local hardware store. The day was a success :)

To get back OT, don't forget the humble 303. I have an Amplabs serviced one and it's my favourite power amp. This is against a 405-2 and 306. I may have posted this earlier, can't remember, but worth considering.

How would you compare the 303 to the 306?

[spendorman]

To get back OT, don't forget the humble 303. I have an Amplabs serviced one and it's my favourite power amp. This is against a 405-2 and 306. I may have posted this earlier, can't remember, but worth considering.

I have a 303 in the system at the moment, usually in preference to my 405-2

[IHP]

How would you compare the 303 to the 306?

More fluid, reminds me of a pair of Quad IIs but with more power. That's what I love about it.

[IHP]

I have a 303 in the system at the moment, usually in preference to my 405-2

Ditto, I prefer the 303 over the 405-2, which in itself is a lovely amp. I'm constantly surprised by how little all the old Quad power amps sell for.

[spendorman]

Ditto, I prefer the 303 over the 405-2, which in itself is a lovely amp. I'm constantly surprised by how little all the old Quad power amps sell for.

Price for a 303 has increased, a few years ago just over £100 might buy a good one, now more like £175, still good value though.

[Gordon Steadman]

How would you compare the 303 to the 306?

I run both. The speakers are ESLs and into those, I certainly prefer the 303. I have tried the Kef 101 with similar results. My main amp is a Leak Stereo 20 and the 303 is closer to the sound of that than the 306. Might colour my judgement!

[Mikeandvan]

Thanks all, this 303 fellow might be just what I'm looking for, mind you I'll be collecting a pair of Chario Syntar floorstanders that I got off here, and will see how they sound with the 306, I'm trying to rid my system of strident treble. Certainly doesn't hurt the pocket swapping around some of these Quad amps.

[hifi_dave]

Thank goodness somebody bought those Charios.

[IHP]

Thanks all, this 303 fellow might be just what I'm looking for, mind you I'll be collecting a pair of Chario Syntar floorstanders that I got off here, and will see how they sound with the 306, I'm trying to rid my system of strident treble. Certainly doesn't hurt the pocket swapping around some of these Quad amps.

There's a serviced one for sale over at the 'wam. I'd always advise getting a serviced one or getting one serviced. The amplabs ones are also worth considering.

[walpurgis]

Thanks all, this 303 fellow might be just what I'm looking for, mind you I'll be collecting a pair of Chario Syntar floorstanders that I got off here, and will see how they sound with the 306, I'm trying to rid my system of strident treble. Certainly doesn't hurt the pocket swapping around some of these Quad amps.

I regard the 306 very highly, it's an extremely musical little amp. I've been using mine this morning through big Tannoys and the sound is all one could ask for really. I can't fault it.

[AJSki2fly]

Thanks all, this 303 fellow might be just what I'm looking for, mind you I'll be collecting a pair of Chario Syntar floorstanders that I got off here, and will see how they sound with the 306, I'm trying to rid my system of strident treble. Certainly doesn't hurt the pocket swapping around some of these Quad amps.

Hi Mike,

Not sure if anyone has said this before but your Ruark Talisman II may be the strident treble culprit here, they are known to be a bit bright. Although a Naim Nait 5 can be quite up front, so the combination may not have been great. Having said that the Chario Syntar floorstanders may be a better match with the Naim.

If you do go further with another amp then I would take your speakers with you to listen with what ever amp you are thinking about purchasing, getting a match that works can be tricky, get it right and it will you will be happy, worth the effort.

Hope it works out,

Adrian

[walpurgis]

Hi Mike,

Not sure if anyone has said this before but your Ruark Talisman II may be the strident treble culprit here, they are known to be a bit bright.

That thought crossed my mind too.

[Mikeandvan]

Hi Adrian,
I'm using the Quad 306 at the moment, with a cheap passive - the little bear (£25 posted from China!!), I just bought some decent (or rather 'branded') speaker cable, the system is sounding a bit better, but I need to give it more listening time before I can judge properly, the Charios will land after Kegworth, so look forward to trying those. I listen to vinyl, but also CD, and when I can afford it I will by an offboard DAC such as a Beresford, as I still find cd listening to be the most strident.

[Mikeandvan]

I regard the 306 very highly, it's an extremely musical little amp. I've been using mine this morning through big Tannoys and the sound is all one could ask for really. I can't fault it.

Hi Geoff, is yours standard or modded at all?

[Mikeandvan]

There's a serviced one for sale over at the 'wam. I'd always advise getting a serviced one or getting one serviced. The amplabs ones are also worth considering.

I find the wam classifieds a bit hard to navigate since the site was overhauled.

[walpurgis]

Hi Geoff, is yours standard or modded at all?

Standard.

[IHP]

I find the wam classifieds a bit hard to navigate since the site was overhauled.

Look for where is says Quad 303 for Sale and click on it :)

Edit - :peace: !

[Mikeandvan]

Look for where is says Quad 303 for Sale and click on it :)

Edit - :peace: !

Must have sold, I can't find it.

[spendorman]

Must have sold, I can't find it.

Try here https://hifiwigwam.com/forum/topic/132593-fs-quad-303-serviced-by-quad-uk/

[spendorman]

He says service by Quad was £150, seems a bit high.

[Mikeandvan]

Try here https://hifiwigwam.com/forum/topic/132593-fs-quad-303-serviced-by-quad-uk/

I looked in the megastore, that's what I mean about wam since the relaunch, pita.

[spendorman]

Are you using smart phone or iPhone? might make navigation more difficult?

[IHP]

Retrotech can be a good source too. I wouldn't normally recommend ebay but Rob at Amplabs has this.....

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Quad-303-for-sale-with-1-year-warranty/323728760140?hash=item4b5fbcdd4c:g:dCIAAOSwF1tcFQM W

Obviously you can go to him directly too.

[walpurgis]

I wouldn't normally recommend ebay.

Why not? I've been buying and selling on ebay for fifteen years with very little bother.

[spendorman]

Why not? I've been buying and selling on ebay for fifteen years with very little bother.

Same here, most members seem to be nice people. I was talking to Paypal recently an they told me I was one of their first customers.

There can be issues with damage in the post or by the courier.

[struth]

Why not? I've been buying and selling on ebay for fifteen years with very little bother.

just checked mine.. been on ebay for 16 years this month... 17 years for amazon.

[spendorman]

just checked mine.. been on ebay for 16 years this month... 17 years for amazon.


I've not been with Amazon so long, this was my first purchase, 2007.

It had a faulty power socket (intermittent) I was impressed with their return/ refund process. https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000P6W2DC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[IHP]

Didn't mean from that dimension, I haven't looked for a while but for some time there seemed to be so much vintage Quad stuff that was either utter tat or to say the least over optimistically priced/worked last time I used it sort of thing I drifted away. Perhaps it was just an unfortunate period of listings.

It's certainly great for bird seed and suet pellets :)

[Mikeandvan]

Just wondering what my next move should be pre amp wise, surely a £25 little black box isn't a keeper? (the little bear). II miss remote control as well.

[Light Dependant Resistor]

One of these providing three stereo inputs and remote control, as well as contact- less volume control
and contact-less input switching is suggested.

[Mikeandvan]

Just thought I'd update on my foray into Quadland. The 306 replaced a Naim Nait 5, I have listened to it for about a month now, most pleasingly with my latest acquirement - the Chario Syntars, I plugged the Nait back in for a few days and it was quite obvious that the Quad/Little bear combo was the better amp. So much more presence, weight, clarity. Now looking for a decent pre with remote control. Am thinking of upgrading to a Quad 909 when funds allow, would that be a wise step with the Charios? I love these speakers and want to keep them, a first for me!

[walpurgis]

Just thought I'd update on my foray into Quadland. The 306 replaced a Naim Nait 5, I have listened to it for about a month now, most pleasingly with my latest acquirement - the Chario Syntars, I plugged the Nait back in for a few days and it was quite obvious that the Quad/Little bear combo was the better amp. So much more presence, weight, clarity. Now looking for a decent pre with remote control. Am thinking of upgrading to a Quad 909 when funds allow, would that be a wise step with the Charios? I love these speakers and want to keep them, a first for me!

Don't sell the 306 until you've tried the 909. They sound rather different, 909 is pretty laid back in comparison, which of course you may like......or not!

[Mikeandvan]

Don't sell the 306 until you've tried the 909. They sound rather different, 909 is pretty laid back in comparison, which of course you may like......or not!

I absolutely get what you mean when you say the 306 is 'fleet footed', which I do like.

[hifi_dave]

Can't believe you didn't appreciate the PRAT of the Nait over the Quad..:rolleyes:

[Macca]

Can't believe you didn't appreciate the PRAT of the Nait over the Quad..:rolleyes:

I can.

[walpurgis]

I can.

:lol:

[southall-1998_mk2]

Can't believe you didn't appreciate the PRAT of the Nait over the Quad..:rolleyes:


Dry sense of humour, love it!

S.

[Mikeandvan]

Can't believe you didn't appreciate the PRAT of the Nait over the Quad..:rolleyes:

I don't think 'black' Naim really carried on that sort of Naim sound did it? In my system the 306 with that cheapo passive is much more pleasing, the Nait sounded thin by comparison, the Quad fills the sound out so much more.

[fatmarley]

I think Naim is proof that the pen is mightier than the ear.

[Mikeandvan]

909 has just arrived, ok to run it with the Little bear and chariot syntars?

[Bigman80]

909 has just arrived, ok to run it with the Little bear and chariot syntars?Of course!

[walpurgis]

Of course!

Yup. The 909 is just a big gentle pussycat of an amp. The Little Bear likes Quad amps, it'll sound very good and the Chario's will be just fine.

(I bet the 909 surprises you with its weight :))

[Mikeandvan]

Yup. The 909 is just a big gentle pussycat of an amp. The Little Bear likes Quad amps, it'll sound very good and the Chario's will be just fine.

(I bet the 909 surprises you with its weight :))

Yes it did slightly. All set up now, your description is spot on, smoother than the 306 and not as 'quick', not sure which I prefer yet......

[walpurgis]

The 306 is a bit more transparent through the mid than the 909, but the 909 is perfectly good listened to in isolation. The top end is good on both, but more restrained on the 909, which gives that impression of smoothness. The bass is possibly slightly deeper with the 909, but seems slightly more agile with the 306. Basically, it's six of one and half a dozen of the other.

[Mikeandvan]

The 306 is a bit more transparent through the mid than the 909, but the 909 is perfectly good listened to in isolation. The top end is good on both, but more restrained on the 909, which gives that impression of smoothness. The bass is possibly slightly deeper with the 909, but seems slightly more agile with the 306. Basically, it's six of one and half a dozen of the other.

Yeh, I've only listened to a few tracks, but that sounds spot on. I really like the bass, and I think more extension of detail and decay with the 909, I've a feeling the 909 will deliver more 'wow' hifi moments, but I might prefer the overall presentation and speed of the 306. Probably just keep them both. But one things for sure the 306 is a hooge bargain. Need to find a decent passive now, I'm getting tired of only having one input!!

[mr sneff]

Need to find a decent passive now, I'm getting tired of only having one input!!

I've got a Tisbury (3 inputs) that I'm not using if you're interested.

[deek]

I've been following your system changes with interest for a while now Mike and I'm glad you've found something that works for you :)

Am I right in thinking you had a 72/250 at one point? How would you describe the difference between this setup and the passive/306?

[Mikeandvan]

I've got a Tisbury (3 inputs) that I'm not using if you're interested.

Looking for remote ideally.

[Mikeandvan]

I've been following your system changes with interest for a while now Mike and I'm glad you've found something that works for you :)

Am I right in thinking you had a 72/250 at one point? How would you describe the difference between this setup and the passive/306?

Hi Derek, I had the 72 in my system the longest, with all the power supplies and different boards......I think in the end I realised it was quite a thin sounding amp, and that is the Naim sound really, to me anyway. But I used it mostly with the 140, I did own the 250 briefly, but I found it underwhelming, interestingly the difference between the 250 and the 140 is the same as the difference between the Quad 909 and 306. The 140 was quicker, more fun really. I am a bit more mature now in my hifi and musical tastes, so the 909 will probably be my main amp now rather than the 306, but its early days yet. As far as Quad/Naim comparisons go I'd say the Quad is quite a bit better, more hifi, more of a fuller sound, the 306, as Walpurgis pointed out is 'fleet footed', which is a perfect description. Its been a while since I had the 72, but the Quad - 306 or 909 are the happiest I've been with my system, mind you I have also changed my speakers which I think has also gone a long way to curing my listening woes. The latest most accurate comparison I can confidently make is that of the 306 and the Nait 5, the 306 is much better, quite simply. 306's are very cheap as well, under £200, add to that a cheap passive, no power supply needed! Defo worth a try. I've heard of quite a few people who had much more expensive Naim systems and then tried a passive based system and said it was better or the equal of it, at a much lower price.

[IHP]

Hi Mike,

Really pleased you're happy with the 909 and great to trade. I've had most Quad power amps over the years and we all have our favourites - mine are the 909 and 303, the latter to my mind sounding like a pair of Quad IIs but with more power. Enjoy it ;-)

[deek]

Thanks Mike, that's very helpful.

[Mikeandvan]

Hi Mike,

Really pleased you're happy with the 909 and great to trade. I've had most Quad power amps over the years and we all have our favourites - mine are the 909 and 303, the latter to my mind sounding like a pair of Quad IIs but with more power. Enjoy it ;-)

I might try the 303 one day, very happy with the 909, first real hifi amp I've had I think. Cheers Ian.

[Mikeandvan]

Playing a 90s trip hop LP I haven't played in a while and the 909 is tremendous, loving it. Just bought a Khozmo passive off Ebay used, it came with a 'channel switch', increases the box count, would have preferred a passive with a few more inputs., this Khozmo only has one, but at £177 posted I thought good buy.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/183791273091

[Barry]

Favourite Quad?

Hmmm - hard to say. I've had Quad 22/2 x IIs (twice), 303 and 303Ks, several Quad 405s (with various modifications), a pair of 510 monoblocks and a 520f.

Out of that lot I guess my favourites are a pair of 'monoblocked' 405s, upgraded to Keith Snook Level 3 with improved power supply, and a pair of standard 510 monoblocks. But they all sound pretty good; it is only the preamps which are now longer up to scratch.

[Mikeandvan]

Just tried a Khozmo pre amp with the 909, have to turn the volume up to 12 o'clock before any decent level is reached, is this normal? also makes my 909 run quite a bit hotter than the little bear did. It does however have less glare, although the sound is a bit emmmm, airless? Is that the phrase, not sure whether its a good or bad thing. But very distortion free sound, not quite there though, missing a bit of punch, not sure whether certain aspects of the sound are being held back, slightly 'boxy' sound. Don't know whether I like it or not, but it is of a higher quality - less glare and a clearer sound.

[Macca]

12 o'clock perfectly normal Mike.

[fatmarley]

Probably best to live with it for a while and then swap back to the little bear. Forget detail and all that rubbish, it's the one you enjoy the most that's important. Might be worth trying it on the 306 too.

[Mikeandvan]

Probably best to live with it for a while and then swap back to the little bear. Forget detail and all that rubbish, it's the one you enjoy the most that's important. Might be worth trying it on the 306 too.

Its not only detail, its presence, pace, etc (and things I can't really describe). To be honest, its just such a nice clear sound, I love it, but my 909 is so hot you could fry an egg on it.

[Macca]

That doesn't sound right.

[Mikeandvan]

That doesn't sound right.

Barely even warm now, think I must have been pushing the volume a bit, but felt I had to, to get that visceral feeling from the music, don't think the Khozmo is a good match for the 909, too tinny, no projection to the music, What to try next, Croft pre?

[walpurgis]

What to try next

Alternative speaker cables? You never know, they can affect the balance.

[Mikeandvan]

The Khozmo does do good things mind you. Just a shame its only got 1 input. Might be worth further listening. Would like to try a Croft, though rarely see them used.

[Mikeandvan]

Alternative speaker cables? You never know, they can affect the balance.

No way, I just paid £100 for these QED ones new!

[walpurgis]

No way, I just paid £100 for these QED ones new!

Which QED ones are they?

[Mikeandvan]

Which QED ones are they?
XT-40.

[walpurgis]

XT-40.

Ah. Not tried that one, but the Silver Anniversary sounded awful every time I've used it.

[Macca]

Barely even warm now, think I must have been pushing the volume a bit, but felt I had to, to get that visceral feeling from the music, don't think the Khozmo is a good match for the 909, too tinny, no projection to the music, What to try next, Croft pre?

Nah you want to try a DCB1 passive buffer - keeps the clarity of the passive but adds that little bit of bite and punch.

[Leeken]

Nah you want to try a DCB1 passive buffer - keeps the clarity of the passive but adds that little bit of bite and punch.
That’s what I’ve got with a quad qsp,which is pretty much the same apparently as a 909,sounds amazing to me,far better than I’ve heard in any dem room.

[Macca]

That’s what I’ve got with a quad qsp,which is pretty much the same apparently as a 909,sounds amazing to me,far better than I’ve heard in any dem room.

Results will vary with the power amp. With my Krell it is jaw-dropping, with my XTZ just okay. But worth trying as if the match is good the sound quality is, as you say, on a par with the best you'll hear anywhere.

[Bigman80]

Nah you want to try a DCB1 passive buffer - keeps the clarity of the passive but adds that little bit of bite and punch.I think he did Macca, with his Naim.



Sent from my VKY-L09 using Tapatalk

[Macca]

I thought the Naim was an integrated?

Anyway I don't rate Naim.

[Bigman80]

I thought the Naim was an integrated?

Anyway I don't rate Naim.You could be right. I think Steve took his Firebottle monos round.

Sent from my VKY-L09 using Tapatalk

[Macca]

Can only speak from my own experience but results with the DCB1 do seem to vary depending on the power amp. only way is to try. But if it gels - you're into the high end sound for next to nothing.

[Bigman80]

Can only speak from my own experience but results with the DCB1 do seem to vary depending on the power amp. only way is to try. But if it gels - you're into the high end sound for next to nothing.I'd suggest the results depend more on the amplifier. I've not hear the DCB1 have a negative impact on anything, rather show them up for what they are. However I am totally biased[emoji23]

Sent from my VKY-L09 using Tapatalk

[Macca]

I'd suggest the results depend more on the amplifier. I've not hear the DCB1 have a negative impact on anything, rather show them up for what they are. However I am totally biased[emoji23]



No that could well be what is happening, completely agree.

[Mikeandvan]

I only heard the dcb1 around Steves, with his monoblocks. I'd like to hear one with my Quad, with anybody wants to loam me one. please.

[Bigman80]

I only heard the dcb1 around Steves, with his monoblocks. I'd like to hear one with my Quad, with anybody wants to loam me one. please.There aren't that many in existence!! Lol

Sent from my VKY-L09 using Tapatalk

[Mikeandvan]

There aren't that many in existence!! Lol

Sent from my VKY-L09 using Tapatalk

Made to order?

[Bigman80]

Made to order?They are a DIY kit so yes, a bit exclusive.

Sent from my VKY-L09 using Tapatalk

[Macca]

Pretty much but a built one comes up for sale on occasion.

[Bigman80]

Pretty much but a built one comes up for sale on occasion.One was for sale recently but it was snapped up quickly

Sent from my VKY-L09 using Tapatalk

[Macca]

I thought the design had been around for a while, six or seven years? Or are they earlier versions?

[Bigman80]

I thought the design had been around for a while, six or seven years? Or are they earlier versions?There was a recent revision that makes the board a bit smaller so ours are old now but there was multiple older versions. They were slightly different too.

Sent from my VKY-L09 using Tapatalk

[Macca]

Cheers man.

[Bigman80]

Cheers man.Ours are the same layout I believe but the new boards have reduced track length a little. Not going to make much difference other than cost of getting the pcb made.

Sent from my VKY-L09 using Tapatalk

[STD305M]

Hi oliver and Martin
The newer revised board is identical in layout and components used just a fraction smaller.

I have 3 of the later smaller boards and my last build which i now run sound just the same as the bigger board.

Steve

[Bigman80]

Hi oliver and Martin
The newer revised board is identical in layout and components used just a fraction smaller.

I have 3 of the later smaller boards and my last build which i now run sound just the same as the bigger board.

SteveThanks Steve. I knew you'd be along to clarify [emoji4]

Sent from my VKY-L09 using Tapatalk

[Mikeandvan]

Nah you want to try a DCB1 passive buffer - keeps the clarity of the passive but adds that little bit of bite and punch.

The guys over on PFM seem to like it too, silly question, does it have its own volume control? Or must you get another box?

[STD305M]

Hi Mike
A dcb1has a volume control, you don't need another box.

Forgot to mention, there was a version with 6 input relays too. I never tried that version, never had the need.
S

[Light Dependant Resistor]

Nah you want to try a DCB1 passive buffer - keeps the clarity of the passive but adds that little bit of bite and punch.

Suggesting it is less than accurate ?

[Macca]

Suggesting it is less than accurate ?

Possibly, although doesn't sound like it. Differences in the character of recordings are obvious so it can't be too far off.

[STD305M]

Possibly, although doesn't sound like it. Differences in the character of recordings are obvious so it can't be too far off.

Personally i have found pure passives to lack drive and have a laid back bass presentation.
Just my experience with many passive pre.
NOT so with the dcb1
S

[Macca]

Personally i have found pure passives to lack drive and have a laid back bass presentation.
Just my experience with many passive pre.


IME depends on how good the match is with the power amp. I know on paper it should not matter but in practical reality it does, albeit the effect can be subtle. With a good match you don't get that but seems to be pot luck unless the power amp was specifically designed to be used with a passive. DCB1 seems to negate that issue whilst retaining (most of?) the transparency of a passive.

[Mikeandvan]

Considering the Velleman 8020, valve pre.

[Light Dependant Resistor]

Considering the Velleman 8020, valve pre.

It too has a potentiometer connecting audio signals, consider removing the potentiometer from the audio signal path altogether.

[Mikeandvan]

Velleman on the way, also just got the Khozmo advertised on here, gonna try both in my system for a while, at £200 each, its no big deal.

[Mikeandvan]

Well, the Velleman was cancelled, the Khozmo has been here for a while, too lean me thinks. Anyhow as much as I've been astounded at the 909s ability to produce a truly hi fi sound, I now feel it is lacking slam, and am missing my old gear, possible because I've been playing my rock stuff lately, and the 909 lacks.....Time to plug the 306 back in. Over the next week I'll have the Croft 25 finally arriving, see how I get on with that....

[fatmarley]

The one thing that stood out when I first plugged in the 306, apart from the clean, well projected vocals was the bass slam. Not just powerful, but deep and tight.

[Mikeandvan]

The one thing that stood out when I first plugged in the 306, apart from the clean, well projected vocals was the bass slam. Not just powerful, but deep and tight.

Yeh, I look forward to reusing the 306, just have to get around to soldering new speaker posts on....Meanwhile I got a Croft 25 pre on the way, see how that changes things.

[walpurgis]

I enjoy my two 306's, more so than the larger Quads really, but you may have fun comparing one to this.

http://i68.tinypic.com/mcpu2a.jpg

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Digital-Power-Amplifier-TPA3116-50Wx2-HIFI-2-0-Stereo-Output/281537861307?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

I have two of these as well. :)

Plus suitable power supplies, which are unfortunately nearly seven quid each!

[Mikeandvan]

I enjoy my two 306's, more so than the larger Quads really, but you may have fun comparing one to this.

http://i68.tinypic.com/mcpu2a.jpg

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Digital-Power-Amplifier-TPA3116-50Wx2-HIFI-2-0-Stereo-Output/281537861307?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

I have two of these as well. :)

Plus suitable power supplies, which are unfortunately nearly seven quid each!

Do you use them as mono blocks? I am seriously impressed with the 909 and its hifi credentials, but I do miss slam, I might just swap it with the 306 every few months and change music taste accordingly!

[Mikeandvan]

Well, the Croft is here, listened for a few hours, won't make any judgments yet, but its making my 909 very hot, even hotter than the Khozmo did. Somebody mentioned changing a resistor in the Quad, or summut or other! I dunno.

[thingfish]

Well I bought a pair of new Monarchy Audio SM70 Pros on the back of all the hype and being HiFi+ product of the year etc etc etc......

Found them shit to be honest.

[Bigman80]

Well I bought a pair of new Monarchy Audio SM70 Pros on the back of all the hype and being HiFi+ product of the year etc etc etc......

Found them shit to be honest.Mad isn't it. I rate them highly.

[Light Dependant Resistor]

Well, the Croft is here, listened for a few hours, won't make any judgments yet, but its making my 909 very hot, even hotter than the Khozmo did. Somebody mentioned changing a resistor in the Quad, or summut or other! I dunno.

A 909 I am assisting a friend with, is crying out for heatsinking compound between each side of the transistor bracket for each channel and the casework heatsink
I would suggest without delay you spend an hour or so doing the same preferably today. The result guaranteed by not doing this is failure of any of the six transistors per channel.
The reasons for this are the choice Quad made with using 0.1R emitter resistors, that are border-line with needed resistance at the transistor emitter.
Fitting 0.2 or 0.3 ohm resistors to each emitter is a better choice. But if you don't want to go to that trouble, adequately cooling the amp by applying heatsinking compound
to the top and bottom side of each transistor bracket will save you a costly repair bill. Note there are simple precautions with skin contact & the chemicals within heatsinking compound

The resistor you refer to is R11 normally a 7R5 which sets the sensitivity to be as I recall for the 909 @775mv. As such the 909 really suits passives, including LDR types very well.

[Mikeandvan]

A 909 I am assisting a friend with, is crying out for heatsinking compound between each side of the transistor bracket for each channel and the casework heatsink
I would suggest without delay you spend an hour or so doing the same preferably today. The result guaranteed by not doing this is failure of any of the six transistors per channel.
However applying heatsinking compound will save you a costly repair bill. Note there are precautions with skin contact & the chemicals within heatsinking compound

The resistor you refer to is R11 normally a 7R5 which sets the sensitivity to be as I recall for the 909 @775mv. As such the 909 suits passives, including LDR types very well.

Thanks Chris, the 909 was serviced by the last owner back in 2017, wouldn't Quad have ensured enough heatsink compound?

[Light Dependant Resistor]

Thanks Chris, the 909 was serviced by the last owner back in 2017, wouldn't Quad have ensured enough heatsink compound?

Hi Mike
All the images I have seen of the internals of the 909 miss out on having heatsinking compound. If you want a second opinion, maybe
ask Rob Flain at Quad, but it is common sense IMO and advised here: http://sound.whsites.net/heatsinks.htm#s9 to aid the transfer of heat
to the external heatsink in every circumstance. If we observe the Quad 405 heatsink bracket it always used heatsink compound. Barry i am sure will
have an opinion on this too.

[Mikeandvan]

Anyone use the phono stage on the Croft 25 ? I think my Graham slee era v beats it.

[fatmarley]

Well, the Croft is here, listened for a few hours, won't make any judgments yet, but its making my 909 very hot, even hotter than the Khozmo did. Somebody mentioned changing a resistor in the Quad, or summut or other! I dunno.

How you finding the Croft compared to the Khozmo or Little Bear?

[Barry]

Hi Mike
All the images I have seen of the internals of the 909 miss out on having heatsinking compound. If you want a second opinion, maybe
ask Rob Flain at Quad, but it is common sense IMO and advised here: http://sound.whsites.net/heatsinks.htm#s9 to aid the transfer of heat
to the external heatsink in every circumstance. If we observe the Quad 405 heatsink bracket it always used heatsink compound. Barry i am sure will
have an opinion on this too.

I have no direct experience of the 909; the amps I use are various 405s and the 500 series (the 510 monoblocks and the 520). I would be very surprised if Quad had not provided adequate heat sinking, including the use of metal oxide silicone grease between the surfaces. It is possible that they use 'dry' insulating washers, as mentioned in the link provided.

If in doubt have a word with Quad at their service department in Huntingdon: they are very knowledgeable and helpful with enquiries.

[Mikeandvan]

How you finding the Croft compared to the Khozmo or Little Bear?

Hi Matt,
Haven't had much chance to listen lately, being busy at work. But first impressions are that I was finding the Khozmo passive a bit lean, and not great with more basic rock music. The croft has more body and 'air' to it. Not really sure which I prefer yet, but I will keep the Croft in and may'be change a few valves or something, and concentrate on my sources like TT set up. Oh and of course put the 306 back in when I get around to soldering new speaker sockets in. Actually quite looking forward to trying the 306 again, I think it has more punch than the 909.

[Mikeandvan]

I have no direct experience of the 909; the amps I use are various 405s and the 500 series (the 510 monoblocks and the 520). I would be very surprised if Quad had not provided adequate heat sinking, including the use of metal oxide silicone grease between the surfaces. It is possible that they use 'dry' insulating washers, as mentioned in the link provided.

If in doubt have a word with Quad at their service department in Huntingdon: they are very knowledgeable and helpful with enquiries.

Thanks Barry, I thought the same, it was only serviced 2 years ago.

[fatmarley]

Hi Matt,
Haven't had much chance to listen lately, being busy at work. But first impressions are that I was finding the Khozmo passive a bit lean, and not great with more basic rock music. The croft has more body and 'air' to it. Not really sure which I prefer yet, but I will keep the Croft in and may'be change a few valves or something, and concentrate on my sources like TT set up. Oh and of course put the 306 back in when I get around to soldering new speaker sockets in. Actually quite looking forward to trying the 306 again, I think it has more punch than the 909.

Thanks for the update Mike. Keep us posted...

[Mikeandvan]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48275875506_7fea7bca16.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2gxYtT9)IMG_20190713_230920394_HDR (https://flic.kr/p/2gxYtT9) by Mike Van (https://www.flickr.com/photos/145505522@N02/), on Flickr

To give my 909 more air I moved it to my Ikea shelf, which is pretty solid. Doing so I had to use a longer interconnect (Straight wire chorus) between it and the Croft pre, a 1m rather than a .50m, I then used the 0.50m between the cdp and pre. Just played a cd and it sounded great. Then played a record and it sounded about the same. Improvement in cd playback. Thinking of changing the tonearm on my Notts analogue TT, still haven't got around to trying the 401 I got off here months ago, need to drill a hole in the SME plinth! Gonna try some sort of mains regenerator/conditioner when funds allow. Also really glad the Croft pre I got has single volume control!!

[Mikeandvan]

Now starting to grow tired of the Quad 909 with rock music, as others have said here it just doesn't rock it. It has been lovely in providing some real hifi moments, with real insight and clarity, but now thinking of changing it for something with more punch. I was playing with an old Harmon kardon decentish integrated earlier, and whilst it was a bit rough sounding in comparison it did have more 'air', presence and punch, not a viable amp though, as I said too rough sounding. Of course changing the pre - currently a Croft micro might change things, but not sure how much. I literally cannot play stuff like the Stones anymore, just no life to the music. With other things though its great, just need the hifi sound - which I love - with a bit more punch.

[Bigman80]

Now starting to grow tired of the Quad 909 with rock music, as others have said here it just doesn't rock it. It has been lovely in providing some real hifi moments, with real insight and clarity, but now thinking of changing it for something with more punch. I was playing with an old Harmon kardon decentish integrated earlier, and whilst it was a bit rough sounding in comparison it did have more 'air', presence and punch, not a viable amp though, as I said too rough sounding. Of course changing the pre - currently a Croft micro might change things, but not sure how much. I literally cannot play stuff like the Stones anymore, just no life to the music. With other things though its great, just need the hifi sound - which I love - with a bit more punch.Buy either a Krell KSA50s or a Neurochrome 286, put a DCB1 Turbo on it and stop messing around and wasting your time.

[Macca]

Buy either a Krell KSA50s or a Neurochrome 286, put a DCB1 Turbo on it and stop messing around and wasting your time.

Good advice!

[walpurgis]

The 306 has more life and verve than the 909. Good little amp with enough power for most systems.

[Light Dependant Resistor]

The 306 has more life and verve than the 909. Good little amp with enough power for most systems.

Yes one of their best, a masterpiece one could say. Can benefit from a few tweaks to how T2 is biased, but out of the box is a great hifi investment

[Mikeandvan]

Buy either a Krell KSA50s or a Neurochrome 286, put a DCB1 Turbo on it and stop messing around and wasting your time.

Well, I used to use Naim, then got tired of the thin sound, so went the opposite way with Quad, as much as the Quad beats the Naim stuff I had in terms of separation and detail, with some of my favourite music - like the Stones - it kinda sucks. So now I've better sorted my turntable set up, I think there are loads of options, just want a decent quality amp - pre/power or integrated - but would prefer integrated as my instincts tell me the sound coheres better rather than 2 separate boxes with interconnects, that delivers the hifi qualities of the 909 but with a slightly different sonic signature, a bit more punch.

[Mikeandvan]

The 306 has more life and verve than the 909. Good little amp with enough power for most systems.

I have a 306 but its poorly at the minute so I cannot compare, should be up and running again soonish.

[Bigman80]

Well, I used to use Naim, then got tired of the thin sound, so went the opposite way with Quad, as much the Quad beats the Naim stuff I had in terms of separation and detail, with some of my favourite music - like the Stones - it kinda sucks. So now I've better sorted my turntable set up, I think there are loads of options, just want a decent quality amp - pre/power or integrated - that delivers the hifi qualities of the 909 but with a slightly different sonic signature, bit more punch.I worry for you Mike. Following your progress closely and it seems you don't really know what sou d you want other than not wanting the one you have.

Naim don't give you transparency, they give PRaT and leading edge, the idea of excitement, a bit like trying doing your daily commute in a formula one car. It's not fun every single day . The quad gives you warm and cuddly, easy listening.......boring.

If you want transparency and neutrality, delivered with power, body and soul that makes you feel alive, then do as I've advised, and Martin backed up.

Honestly, I can't remember what speakers you're using or cables or source but if you get the amplification right, it's easier to get the rest right.

The fact I can hear what the quad amps do, means it would grate on me. I shouldn't hear it in use. Hence the reco of Krell KSA50S

BTW, I'm not saying anyone shouldn't like Quad amps, just that I don't like what I've heard.

[Mikeandvan]

I worry for you Mike. Following your progress closely and it seems you don't really know what sou d you want other than not wanting the one you have.

Naim don't give you transparency, they give PRaT and leading edge, the idea of excitement, a bit like trying doing your daily commute in a formula one car. It's not fun every single day . The quad gives you warm and cuddly, easy listening.......boring.

If you want transparency and neutrality, delivered with power, body and soul that makes you feel alive, then do as I've advised, and Martin backed up.

Honestly, I can't remember what speakers you're using or cables or source but if you get the amplification right, it's easier to get the rest right.

The fact I can hear what the quad amps do, means it would grate on me. I shouldn't hear it in use. Hence the reco of Krell KSA50S

BTW, I'm not saying anyone shouldn't like Quad amps, just that I don't like what I've heard.

I think its very dependent on what music you listen to, hence why I cannot listen to some of my favourite rock stuff anymore with the 909, which is admittedly the very scratchy/distorted 60s stuff! But with other genres I really love the 909. But I don't think its a keeper for me. Have you actually heard Naim stuff or are you just going off its reputation? As the chrome bumper stuff is quite different to the current 'black' range.

[Bigman80]

I think its very dependent on what music you listen to, hence why I cannot listen to some of my favourite rock stuff anymore with the 909, which is admittedly the very scratchy/distorted 60s stuff! But with other genres I really love the 909. But I don't think its a keeper for me. Have you actually heard Naim stuff or are you just going off its reputation? As the chrome bumper stuff is quite different to the current 'black' range.I heard a Naim amp and CD player, couldn't tell you the model number but when it was done, I had to paint new eyebrows on.

Transparency is what you need, Mike. It's the key to unlocking your entire music collection and making it enjoyable.

I know you'll nip off to ebay or wherever and do what you want to, and rightly so, but eventually you'll realise that any amplifier with a "characteristic" will intrinsically wear on you.

If I were you, and you want to put that theory to the test, go and find some Hypex amplifiers. Not Nord or anyone using the boards, a proper pair. They are transparent and neutral and usually sell for about £700 for the pair.

As an experiment, you can't go wrong. Orchard Audio have a loan pair of the BOSC in the UK at the minute. Ask for a loan.

See what happens to your listening habits with them in.

[Mikeandvan]

If I were you, and you want to put that theory to the test, go and find some Hypex amplifiers. Not Nord or anyone using the boards, a proper pair. They are transparent and neutral and usually sell for about £700 for the pair.

As an experiment, you can't go wrong. Orchard Audio have a loan pair of the BOSC in the UK at the minute. Ask for a loan.

See what happens to your listening habits with them in.

Thanks I'll check it out.

[Mikeandvan]

I been on Ebay again, got a pair of Kef reference 2s. Got a feeling they're gonna make my ears bleed, and probably not suit my room, if so I might consider moving flat, tired of being restricted by my listening room! :sofa:

[Bigman80]

I been on Ebay again, got a pair of Kef reference 2s. Got a feeling they're gonna make my ears bleed, and probably not suit my room, if so I might consider moving flat, tired of being restricted by my listening room! :sofa:Speakers?

Lol, youre killing me Mike.

TBH, your best bet is to keep going untill you're happy. You've gone past the stage of help lol

[Mikeandvan]

Speakers?

Lol, youre killing me Mike.

TBH, your best bet is to keep going untill you're happy. You've gone past the stage of help lol

Judging by other forum members lists of 'gear they've owned' I'm quite moderate!

[Opti-cal]

I've been where Mike is (still there to a certain extent) . . . but its taken about 3 or 4 system builds to get to a satisfactory setup.

Agreed, it does sound like you should keep going, staying within the realms of spouse/budget sanity!!

If present company in this thread are recommending neurochrome, I would take note (in fact I have!).

However if you don't want to do the DIY or get someone to do it for you this may be of interest. Don't own one myself but have heard similar typologies and if you want a very well rounded amplifier with a helping of all virtues, this might be worth a punt.

Might take a while to get here though . . .

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HYPEX-UCD-180-AMPLIFIER-WITH-NORATEL-TOROIDAL-110V-240V/253529018459?hash=item3b0781d05b:g:AtAAAOSwPhRavbA U

All I can suggest is finding some speakers you really like and sticking with them. I have done so with my Quads and now will not entertain any bit of equipment unless it has a proven or (at least) theoretically technical synergy with them. Might mean selling everything if I change speakers but I accept that.

I still get it wrong even following these stipulations though so nothing is foolproof.

Reviews and recommendations only make up a small percentage of my decision process now . . . although they certainly used to have more of an influence.

[deek]

Mike, have you considered an Exposure amplifier? I'm currently considering an old Farlowe-era integrated to pair with some old ProAc Tablettes. I'm led to believe they have the propulsive quality of Naim but without any harshness. Sounds ideal for rock.

[Macca]

KEF Reference series are very revealing speakers, so this should put the cat amongst the pigeons.

[Bigman80]

Judging by other forum members lists of 'gear they've owned' I'm quite moderate!

HAHAHAHAA, yes, like me lol

[Mikeandvan]

KEF Reference series are very revealing speakers, so this should put the cat amongst the pigeons.

Which ones? These are the old ones. Reviews say the treble is fairly tame. I want a bigger sound stage, like I said if these prove too much for my room, I'll seriously consider moving flat, as I rent.

[Mikeandvan]

Mike, have you considered an Exposure amplifier? I'm currently considering an old Farlowe-era integrated to pair with some old ProAc Tablettes. I'm led to believe they have the propulsive quality of Naim but without any harshness. Sounds ideal for rock.

Yeh, I mean there's literally thousands one could try. Exposure are popular in the UK because they're a British brand like Naim, Rega etc.