Balanced amp / output ?

[Audio Al]

Hi People

Some questions for the more knowledgeable than me :)

How many hifi items have balanced outputs ?

How many amps have balanced in's / out's , TT's not that I have seen ?, Cassette players , not that I have seen
Tuners ? not that I have seen ? R2R yes some have the 3 pin connecters but are they balanced ?

I have a CD player with balanced out's but dont have a amp with balanced connections

Is the sound quality much improved if you use balance instead of RCA's :scratch:

Fanks in advance :D

[RMutt]

I wonder if you can get a balanced grounding box?

[Spectral Morn]

Not everything with XLR outputs or inputs is actually balanced. A true balanced design has dual differential circuit layout, so the left and right channels in the pre etc is doubled up. These are more expensive and some will argue overly complex with single ended being superior, because they are less complex. Both are valid designs, but to my ear balanced designs sound better, than most single ended designs I have heard, hence much of my system is made up of true balanced designs.

True balanced designs generally have a lower noise floor than single ended designs.

[Audio Al]

My CD player is a Toshiba SD 9500 is this true balanced :scratch:

In the manual is says "Balanced output 4.0V 100ohm,XLR (L.R) X 1

[CageyH]

If you have really long cable runs, then balanced may sound better.

[Audio Al]

If you have really long cable runs, then balanced may sound better.

Hum , may does not sound convincing and make me want to go out and buy a balanced amp :(

[CageyH]

It all depends on the length of cables, and the environment that said cables are in.

[Radford Revival]

Balanced interconnects' sole purpose are for hum and noise reduction - if this currently isn't an issue then going to balanced connections will be of no benefit. Most of the time in domestic setups the cable runs and short enough that hum loops / noise pickup aren't really an issue (obviously with the occasional exception, usually down to equipment with odd earthing / shielding or strange interconnects)

Well designed equipment works perfectly fine connected together with unbalanced with low levels of noise and hum in a sensibly wired system (most of the time)

[Audio Al]

Thanks Will , I have zero hum so looks like I have saved some money :)

[Light Dependant Resistor]

Hi People

Some questions for the more knowledgeable than me :)

How many hifi items have balanced outputs ?

How many amps have balanced in's / out's , TT's not that I have seen ?, Cassette players , not that I have seen
Tuners ? not that I have seen ? R2R yes some have the 3 pin connecters but are they balanced ?

I have a CD player with balanced out's but dont have a amp with balanced connections

Is the sound quality much improved if you use balance instead of RCA's :scratch:

Fanks in advance :D

Balanced audio finds use where you have need for long cable runs, it has ability to reject noise and offer wider dynamic range than unbalanced audio.
However unbalanced can be made to similarly reject noise intrusion where opto coupling is used, and provide just as good, if not better ability for silence,
in the process improving signal to noise ratio. The NSL32SR3 LDR for instance offers this ability, however requires much care with how it is powered.
Marco might provide a review of a unit I sent to him late last year... if we are all good :)

Some equipment that benefits from balanced audio includes phono stages, seen in the Audio Synthesis ADEQ product of the 1990's. Also headphones can be
rewired for balanced audio and some amplifiers are provided with balanced inputs. Traditionally though balanced audio is used in recording studios and for live concerts.
http://www.aviom.com/blog/balanced-vs-unbalanced/

Whether balanced sounds better than unbalanced requires comparison using identical equipment. There is far more complexity with balanced audio. IMO the same advantages
it offers can be attained with unbalanced, as explained above. That said some stages like phono benefit from being arranged with RIAA eq being balanced and turntables wired for balanced
- which is due to the very small voltages involved. Taking this purist path requires attaining or building a balanced phono stage

Generally converting unbalanced to balanced can be done with a THAT 1646 http://www.thatcorp.com/1600-series_Balanced_Line_Driver_ICs.shtml
noting you need to regulate the current to each polarity of the devices power supply ( LM317/337 )

[Pharos]

balanced systems were developed by pro audio because they are much more manageable from the S/N point of view, where in pro setups. frequent connecting and disconnecting are the norm, and often with long cable runs. They don't want to faf around with hum problems while a band is waiting to record for example.

There are true balanced systems and also other variations which approximate to balanced. ATC active speakers for example have balanced I/Ps. As has been said, the circuits have twice the elements in them, and usually about twice the distortion, bt in reality it is probably still insignificant.

I am happy with balanced pre and speakers, but FM O/P has an unbalanced O/P, and also my CD player, but it is very much more usual to feed a balanced I/P from an unbalanced O/P, than the other way round.

[Audio Al]

Balanced audio finds use where you have need for long cable runs, it has ability to reject noise and offer wider dynamic range than unbalanced audio.
However unbalanced can be made to similarly reject noise intrusion where opto coupling is used, and provide just as good, if not better ability for silence,
in the process improving signal to noise ratio. The NSL32SR3 LDR for instance offers this ability, however requires much care with how it is powered.
Marco ( The Headmaster ) ;) might provide a review of a unit I sent to him late last year... if we are all good :whippin::)

Some equipment that benefits from balanced audio includes phono stages, seen in the Audio Synthesis ADEQ product of the 1990's. Also headphones can be
rewired for balanced audio and some amplifiers are provided with balanced inputs. Traditionally though balanced audio is used in recording studios and for live concerts.
http://www.aviom.com/blog/balanced-vs-unbalanced/

Whether balanced sounds better than unbalanced requires comparison using identical equipment. There is far more complexity with balanced audio. IMO the same advantages
it offers can be attained with unbalanced, as explained above. That said some stages like phono benefit from being arranged with RIAA eq being balanced and turntables wired for balanced
- which is due to the very small voltages involved. Taking this purist path requires attaining or building a balanced phono stage

Generally converting unbalanced to balanced can be done with a THAT 1646 http://www.thatcorp.com/1600-series_Balanced_Line_Driver_ICs.shtml
noting you need to regulate the current to each polarity of the devices power supply ( LM317/337 )

Thanks Chris for the detailed reply :)

[Spectral Morn]

Subjectively I feel that balanced designs sound better, even when using short cable runs 1m. In saying that there is a positive benefit using long cable runs.

I doubt the Toshiba 9500 has true balanced outputs, more likely just XLR outputs and it does not have a dual differential circuit. I can't be bothered opening mine up to look.

[joolz]

In my experience, they both sound very much the same, but i have only used 1 metre runs of cable. If i have the option, at the same price point, i would go the balanced option.

[losepete]

Hi All

The Meridian G series amplifiers have both balanced xlr inputs and unbalanced rca inputs. Of possible interest is that when using the unbalanced rca inputs the signal is converted to balanced before the signal gets any amplification.

I have a G55 - some detail here http://www.meridian-audio.info/show.php?compid=22 - using the rca inputs.
It sounds much cleaner than the Meridian 205 monoblocks I was using and the 605 monoblocks a friend brought round to compare with the G55.

[Clive197]

Without getting too technical XLR outputs are higher than RCA which in effect will lower the noise floor. Most of us will not readily be able to hear that but you pays your money and takes your choice.
I use XLR connections in the main as I like the ability to lock cables securely in place. I have in the past experienced RCA cables working loose and hate having to get to the back of kit and giving the cable a wiggle.