View Full Version : Conical cartridge needle & tracking error
If this Q has been threaded somewhere else in AOS, sorry for asking again.
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Starting from the simple fact that conical tips have always the same surface contact with groove's sides even when the tonearm is near the center of the record, I just wonder if this reduces the tracking error effetcs, making a conical needle a better choice than elliptical one is, when you have a 9'' tonearm.
Any thoughts?
hifi_dave
02-05-2010, 11:34
Set up with a conical stylus isn't as critical as with an elliptical but the problem arises that the broad conical stylus doesn't trace the fine, high frequency wiggly bits as well...:doh:
Yep, however the fact is that everything in audio is a compromise, so although cartridges with conical styli (due to the laws of physics) behave as Dave says, in my experience, the good ones make up for it in other ways, such as better tone and timbre, and often a deeper, richer bass and more communicative and expressive midrange.
It's all a trade-off, Giovanni - so you simply have to choose your compromises.
Me? I'll gladly trade a very sight loss of high frequency detail retrieval to obtain the latter, above, which is why I love the DL-103SA through the A23 SUT, and into the fabulous all-valve MM stage of my Croft preamp - the resultant sound is absolutely sublime! :)
Incidentally, how is the HA-500 performing? :cool:
Marco.
@Marco,
everything in life is a compromise (not only about audio issues), I know very well that :( . But I'm lucky, since I learned how to be happy inside compromises :eyebrows:.
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@Marco & Dave,
I'm aware conical tips are not tracking very well high frequencies. Infact my Q was about "Error Tracking". As rule of thumb, a conical tip should be less affected of such prob, but not experimentally sure.
What you think?
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@Marco
Dave Cawley hadn't the DL 103SA in stock (he had a good price at that time), but last week I found it in Italy at a better price, and I'm just waiting for seller shipping to me. So far, I couldn't use the HA 500, but sure I'll let you know when I do.
BTW: I need the cables connecting the HA 500 to the pre-phono and the pre-phono to the ampli. I wonder if 2 couple of MG HD1000 of 0,50 cm each should fit this need. What you suggest me?
Hi Giovanni,
Yes they would work very well. When you order them from Mark Grant, ask him to fit them with Neutrik plugs, which to my ears give a considerable improvement over the stock Canare type.
There will be a small surcharge for this, but I'm sure you can afford it ;)
Enjoy!
Marco.
Hi Giovanni,
Yes they would work very well. When you order them from Mark Grant, ask him to fit them with Neutrik plugs, which to my ears give a considerable improvement over the stock Canare type.
There will be a small surcharge for this, but I'm sure you can afford it ;)
Enjoy!
Marco.
Thank you for your suggestion Marco, I'll sure will follow it.
I didn't know Mark could supply beter phono plugs as it didn't appear to be an option at the time - it may be a good idea for me to ask him as I'm prevented using the Croft at the moment due to a plug and socket issue on one input which doesn't apply with either cheap or expensive neutrik phono plugs into the same socket...
Unlike Marco, I'd rather have a clear but un-exaggerated treble to an all-out punchy bass with gentler top end. if I want more punch and weight, I'd get a bigger pair of speakers as Marco has done - you can over-egg the pudding you know..... :D
jandl100
02-05-2010, 13:32
Conical stylus?
Well, my re-bodied Denon 103 has one .... and after a month or so of life with a Dynavector DV17D3 and its 'micro-ridge' stylus ... whatever that is! - but I assume it's something fairly fancy ... I have now sold the DV and gone back, with increased happiness, to the 103 with its conical stylus.
I have found that there is more to life (and music) than a fancy stylus profile! :ner:
Unlike Marco, I'd rather have a clear but un-exaggerated treble to an all-out punchy bass with gentler top end. if I want more punch and weight, I'd get a bigger pair of speakers as Marco has done - you can over-egg the pudding you know..... :D
Lol, Dave. I get all the above (apart from a "gentler top end", which sounds to me like 'rolled off' - and that defo ain't what I'm after), and much more! ;)
All that's missing with the DL-103SA in my system, when compared to a top-notch MC cart, equipped with a fine-line stylus, is a teensy weensy bit less (read as miniscule), top-end extension, which results in marginally less fine detail retrieval - *but* with it, shed loads more emotion, tonal colour, expressiveness and drive than almost any soulless and forensic sounding modern cartridge I've heard so far............ And, btw, I consider Deccas as 'classic' cartridges, too.
So, conical shmonical, muchacho! :eyebrows:
System synergy and optimising equipment set-up is far more important than what stylus profile your cartridge uses.
Marco.
I've gone even more retro and dug out a Shure V15III with a special fitting for the Dual (the 701 was counterweight tuned for this pickup).
I'm having an M3D moment all over again... :eek:
I've gone even more retro and dug out a Shure V15III with a special fitting for the Dual (the 701 was counterweight tuned for this pickup).
I'm having an M3D moment all over again... :eek:
I was thinking of having a 'retro' session using some '70s fixed coil cartridges:
ADC 10E Mark IV,
ADC 25 (with either a spherical or elliptical tip: it came with three stylii),
ADC 26 (with either a spherical or elliptical tip, though it should be identical to the ADC 25),
Shure M55E (elliptical), (I no longer have any of the V15's (II Improved and III)),
and the
B&O SP6 (spherical tip) (This was the cartidge I wanted to use 40 years ago.
Couldn't get hold of one at the time, so had to make do with a Shure M3D, pace Marco and Dave ;)).
This endeavour will take some 'faffing about' to set up properly, as a well as making necessary changes to the RIAA amplifier, but is something I would like to try. Will report in due course.
I believe there is a post somewhere on one of the other audio fora by a Swiss guy, who presents good theoretical reasons why a spherical tip might be better overall. There is some renewed interest in spherical tips - witness the Swiss Gyger sapphire (?!) tip.
Regards
Sounds interesting Barry_(The new shortened Moniker version ;)) look forward to reading the report.
The Grand Wazoo
02-05-2010, 23:52
Ah, so you have a new streamlined go-faster name, Barry!
Sounds interesting Barry_(The new shortened Moniker version ;)) look forward to reading the report.
Congratulations Alex, you are the first to have noticed! But then my new moniker is only two hours old.
Now I will have to do that comparison. It will take some time (it will probably involve the use of three different arms: the ADC25/26 have an absurdly high compliance), so don't hold your breath!
Regards
The 'new' me
Ah, so you have a new streamlined go-faster name, Barry!
Yes, I have always regarded by previous name as being somewhat prosaic. I was resigned to using it as my preferred choice had already been taken. A bit of 'behind the scenes' lobbying has resulted in the new user-friendly moniker; it is after all my first name and by what everybody knows me.
'Go-faster'? Not sure about that, but things could have been worse: I was thinking of "Sonic Screwdriver"!
Next step will be for me to request a change of title. I'm too unimaginative to think of anything appropriate, and am for the moment quite content with 'Senior Member'. All suggestions will however be considered.
Regards
jandl100
03-05-2010, 07:03
and am for the moment quite content with 'Senior Member'.
Yes, well, my member is getting a bit senior as well .... :lol:
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