Rega Planar 1 anti-skating issue.

[Akod]

Hi!

My name is Andrey. I'm a newcomer at this forum and actually in a world of analogue equipment. When I've decided to purchase a TT I did not know much about it and a quick research lead me to Rega Planar 1 as a good choice for beginner for a reasonable price , so I baught it with Rega Fono MM. I was happy with the quality of sound, but as usuall appetite comes with eating, so rather quickly I began to think about upgrading cartridge. The most obvious choice was Rega Elys 2 cartridge, cause of its good reviews and full compatibility with a TT, as it was said in a manual. I aquired it, but a very annoying problem revealed, that made me think that upgrade descision was a bit premature. The problem is pre-set anti-skating of RB110 tonarm, which is set for 2g without ajustment ability. It is perfect for Rega Carbon with 2,5g recommended downforce, but too much for Elys 2 with 1,75g, so when setting counterwheight to this value, the tonarm begins to slide to the right, which causes playback problems and, as I can guess, exessive pressure to one side of the groove, which cannot be good for records. Of cause, afterwards, when I searched the internet, I read, that it is a well known issue of Planar series and that people solve it by unmounting the anti-scating magnet which is glued inside the tonarm, but for now I think this measure is too radical.

Maybe someone already dealt with changing cartringe on Planar TTs ?

How did you solved anti-skating mismatch issue ?

Thank you!

[Spectral Morn]

Hi!

My name is Andrey. I'm a newcomer at this forum and actually in a world of analogue equipment. When I've decided to purchase a TT I did not know much about it and a quick research lead me to Rega Planar 1 as a good choice for beginner for a reasonable price , so I baught it with Rega Fono MM. I was happy with the quality of sound, but as usuall appetite comes with eating, so rather quickly I began to think about upgrading cartridge. The most obvious choice was Rega Elys 2 cartridge, cause of its good reviews and full compatibility with a TT, as it was said in a manual. I aquired it, but a very annoying problem revealed, that made me think that upgrade descision was a bit premature. The problem is pre-set anti-skating of RB110 tonarm, which is set for 2g without ajustment ability. It is perfect for Rega Carbon with 2,5g recommended downforce, but too much for Elys 2 with 1,75g, so when setting counterwheight to this value, the tonarm begins to slide to the right, which causes playback problems and, as I can guess, exessive pressure to one side of the groove, which cannot be good for records. Of cause, afterwards, when I searched the internet, I read, that it is a well known issue of Planar series and that people solve it by unmounting the anti-scating magnet which is glued inside the tonarm, but for now I think this measure is too radical.

Maybe someone already dealt with changing cartringe on Planar TTs ?

How did you solved anti-skating mismatch issue ?

Thank you!

I was not aware that Rega made an arm without Anti Skating adjustment. I hate to say this but, without that ability I think you have to stick with Rega's cart of choice for that arm. I get it cuts costs to omit anti skating adjustment, but to do so basically makes that arm incompatible with so much, I could not myself personally recommend that arm.

There is no tweak that I can think of that would sort this design omission.

[Akod]

Thanks! I see....another question then: based on your experience, how critical is setting higher downforce for the cart then recommended ? What kind of problems could setting it for example to 2-2,1g (while recommended is 1,75) cause ?

[topoxforddoc]

Andrey,

I suggest that you contact Paul Darwin, the managing director of Rega, on PinkFish Media (PFM). PFM is another UK hi-fi forum and Paul will normally answer queries directly and offer to help.

Charlie

[topoxforddoc]

Just posted this for you on PFM

https://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/query-for-paul-darwin-anti-skate-on-rp1-with-elys-2-cartridge.223822/

[Akod]

Wow! Thanks a lot!)

[Akod]

Hm. Paul's answer looks veeeery confusing.

Here are the specifications from Rega official site:

http://www.rega.co.uk/uploads/carbon-leaflet-eng.pdf
http://www.rega.co.uk/uploads/elys-2.pdf

Also, I have electronic scales and I have checked the downforce, when the counterweight is pushed all the way to the collar. It is 2,5g....

It becomes stranger and stranger...

[topoxforddoc]

Andrey
I have sent Paul darwina private message on PFM
Charlie

[Akod]

Thank you so much! I hope he will clarify the situation.

[hifi_dave]

Using stylus scales you can set the tracking weight with the Elys-2 to the recommended 1.75/1.8 weight. The pre-set bias is an approximate value but perfectly suitable for the Carbon and/or Bias-2 or Elys-2.

What I believe you are saying is that when setting the tracking weight, the arm swings outwards. If that is what you are experiencing, then that is perfectly normal. It's a bit annoying because you can't disable the bias, but is not a problem when playing records at the recommended tracking weight and it won't cause any "playback problems".

I have done just this on a couple of occasions and had a few customers upgrading their cartridge on a P1 or P2 and there are no problems with these combinations.

[topoxforddoc]

Here's the reply from Paul Darwin

https://vgy.me/58e0FI.png

[Akod]

Playback problem, I'm talking about, is that some of the records start skipping (Sorry, I'm not sure about the right term to use for this, they just stuck repeating the same part again and again), when the counterweight is set for 1,75g. It doesn't happen with the same ones, when it is set for 2,1 g for example. As to arm swinging, I'll better shoot a small video of this. Basically, it just always moves to the right always when going down to the plate, so I need to hold it with my fingers to make it go down perpendicularly.

[Akod]

So, that is what happening:

1. Let's check the scales with a test plummet:

https://i.ibb.co/mT0r0XZ/test-weight.jpg (https://ibb.co/3dv5vM6)

Almost perfect.

2. Then test the weight of Elys 2, when a counterweight is pushed to the end:

https://i.ibb.co/GMw4tmt/Counter-full.jpg (https://ibb.co/KsZpLnL)

https://i.ibb.co/5xj1xtC/Counter-full-Elys.jpg (https://ibb.co/VpCLprb)

I was wrong before. It's almost 3g, not even 2,5.

3. Now let's check how will the cart go down while I push the lever:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1F4ayh174JyxFpTn1CrzO_lR96Er8QL-N/view

It goes ok.

4. Then I move the counterweight to set downforce to recommended value:

https://i.ibb.co/vD3McHB/Counter-back.jpg (https://ibb.co/stKXg2P)

https://i.ibb.co/5KcH26H/Counter-back-Elys.jpg (https://ibb.co/7kymbXm)

5. And that is what happens after that:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aqymMY_v5R_7doP32S2JS7LNt_NhurT7/view


I guess it should not be this way. So, maybe I'm doing something wrong. But what ?

[Cas]

This got me searching on information on the RB110 tonearm,

I found a thread on Pink Fish media regarding how the bias works on this arm. Under the arm is a cylindrical magnet, this magnet should be preset in its housing but if you
turn and pull/push this magnet it can be moved backwards/forwards thus adjusting the arms bias.

This magnet should be fixed in someway in its housing, I assume a glue of some sort would be used, or is it just a tight fit ?

Now what if and I mean what if this magnet has been been set incorrectly at factory level or the turntable has been knocked, banged
or jarred in some way enough to move that magnet, this would cause problems with the bias.

Link to a thread on Pink Fish Media showing this magnet under the arm, along with information on how to change the setting of it, something I
would not do unless you feel adept at doing so - https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/rega-rb-110-anti-skating-bias-adjustment.205514/

[Akod]

Thank you. Magnet looks OK, so I'm beginning to assume, that maybe bias is not an issue at all....Any ideas (when looking at videos), what else could it be ?

[fletchdirect]

there is another solution if you are not happy generally with all of this, put the carbon back on - and change the stylus for this....its at least an elliptical stylus vs

https://www.lpgear.com/product/LPGCFN3600LE.html

even better, but may only be available on ebay NOS

https://www.thakker.eu/en/replacement-stylus/atn-91-he-stylus-for-audio-technica-at-91-generic-stylus/a-9511/

not sure this guy is still trading, but this would be good

https://snvinyl.co.uk/Rega-Carbon-Shibata-Replacement-Stylus

[DSJR]

I should have dived in earlier!!

Rega have always set the bias slightly high and in past years, I always set the slider then fitted to RB arms at '1' or even less for 1.75g tracking force using an elliptical stylus. Rega are trying to make a Planar 1 as easily fit and forget as possible for non-enthusiasts and it works a treat for these people. The current Planar 2 also has fixed bias I believe. It's an arbitary setting at best, so only ever an approximate setting as many styli need different settings in my experience.

What I'd have done is obtain a (Jico made?) EPO-E stylus from Thakker for the Carbon and left everything else as-is - I dislike Rega's higher MM's, sorry, although I love their MC's which sound totally different. Staying with Audio Technica, I'm thinking an AT530 or even 540 (latter especially with fine line tip) would have preferred Rega's naturally higher fixed bias setting - this fixed high bias also discussed at length on VE threads I believe and can be an issue once you start changing cartridges.

With vinyl this works - DECK FIRST, then the ARM, then the CARTRIDGE, followed by the phono stage. The bearings in the arm fitted to a Planar 1 or 2 aren't as good as the RB330 for example. Just saying. For an AT91 based Carbon or cartridge up to an AT530 (VM95EN is more likely for cost considerations though), a Planar 1 should be fine.

[steve-z]

Check out this vid on YouTube.
https://youtu.be/bb8STonWhg4


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