Spondylolisthesis

[hifi_dave]

Following on from my Gluteas Maximus thread, I have been seen privately by a Consultant and Physiotherapist. I couldn't get any sense from 3 x GPS who didn't know what pain meds to prescribe because of my Kidney condition, that plus the screaming agony I was in, I went privately to a back/pain management Consultant.

Previous to that, my GP had booked me in for an X-Ray and she + the NHS Physio, decided it was some wear and tear and nothing much to worry about. They didn't think I needed further investigation and it would pass in 6 weeks.

The private Consultant decided it was not just that and booked me in for an MRI scan, where it was found that I have Spondylolisthesis - a slippage of the vertebrae at L4/5, squashing the disc and the Sciatic nerve. This is what is giving me such pain. He prescribed Gapapentin to ease the nerve pain and the Physio has given me exercises to do.

It is now 13 weeks since the agony started and it seems to be easing quite a bit. With the Gabapentin, I can get a good night's sleep and during the day it is reduced to a dull ache. The Consultant says that it will take at least 3 months and he is right. I am looking forward to getting back to normal.

Thing is, once again I have been let down by the NHS. The 3 x GP's and Physiotherapist I saw couldn't/wouldn't help with pain relief, didn't think further investigation was necessary and therefore mis-diagnosed the condition. Thank the Lord for private Consultants..:drugs:

[struth]

ive heard of Spondylolisthesis. its a lower wing vertebrae slipping over another. painful but should be curable dave.:)

ive got spondolosis among other things, and is top of spine and neck. uncurable

[walpurgis]

Blimey, you do go through it Dave. Hope your latest problem eases soon.

[hifi_dave]

ive heard of Spondylolisthesis. its a lower wing vertebrae slipping over another. painful but should be curable dave.:)

ive got spondolosis among other things, and is top of spine and neck. uncurable

Sorry to hear that Grant. I will have to Google that one.

[hifi_dave]

Blimey, you do go through it Dave. Hope your latest problem eases soon.

Yes, I've had a few things lately - Kidneys on the way out, ruptured Achilles leading to double Pulmonary Embolism (thank you NHS), Diverticulitis and now this. Oh well, that's life.

[struth]

Joint between neck and spine. Nerves get interfered with. All I know is its gives huge headaches and sudden pains in brain, although they usually only happen if I bend my neck down and to side

[AJSki2fly]

Sorry to hear you have that. Back pain/injury is terrible and difficult to accurately identify the issue without a MRI scan.

I ruptured my disc at vertebrae at L4/5 in my early 30's and like you the NHS GP mis-diagnosed and I was sent to a physiotherapist who put me on traction and exercises. The exercises she gave me nearly put me in a wheel chair, it all got worse as I ended up with an inflamed Sciatic nerve because of the exercises were causing it rub against the ruptured disc. After 6 months I did the same as you and went private which then got me on the right drugs and an epidural with slow release anti-inflamatories, cortisone and pain relief and rest for 1 month. It made things 60% better and I managed it for several years with drugs until it settled down on its own.

I hope you get better soon and are free from pain.

[Pigmy Pony]

Sounds rather like what my mate's dad had back in the seventies, and I think the treatment then was to "fuse" the affected vertebrae. Don't imagine that being any good with Grant's condition though.

Anyway, it looks like your private folk are sorting it, so that's good news :)

[Wakefield Turntables]

You really need to see an Osteopath, I work alongside 7, as a profession they may not cure you but could keep things at bay, might be worth paying a consultation fee to see if they can help as a profession. Just a suggestion.... !

[hifi_dave]

Thanks for the replies lads.

Grant, I really feel sorry for you, it must be horrible. I suppose you have been seen by a specialist ? Is there anything to be done ?

I have been seeing an Osteopath all along but she was unable to help despite putting all her effort into it. I haven't seen her since I had the proper diagnosis so will give her another go because that might change the things she does.

[struth]

Thanks for the replies lads.

Grant, I really feel sorry for you, it must be horrible. I suppose you have been seen by a specialist ? Is there anything to be done ?

I have been seeing an Osteopath all along but she was unable to help despite putting all her effort into it. I haven't seen her since I had the proper diagnosis so will give her another go because that might change the things she does.

treatment was to rub anti inflammatories into the local area, but as im already on oral version for my hip, i cant have it. so not much else bar exercises and trying to rest neck at right angle in bed. helps a bit but it is getting a little worse. just have to see where it takes me, but it is reducing my mobility on sticks as you push down on them it transfers into shoulders and neck...catch 22 really.
but im not ging to totally lie down to it.

oh and the vena is settling down well. still awaiting speaker cable to try its own power section

[Len Co]

Sorry to hear the problems you guys have, I am getting a worsening of long standing lower back pain and associated problems myself as I age but I have no faith in anyone (private or NHS) so am thinking I will grin and bear it as long as I can.
I have had consultations in both sectors in the past but none proved useful. Best wishes.

[hifi_dave]

treatment was to rub anti inflammatories into the local area, but as im already on oral version for my hip, i cant have it. so not much else bar exercises and trying to rest neck at right angle in bed. helps a bit but it is getting a little worse. just have to see where it takes me, but it is reducing my mobility on sticks as you push down on them it transfers into shoulders and neck...catch 22 really.
but im not ging to totally lie down to it.

oh and the vena is settling down well. still awaiting speaker cable to try its own power section

Have you tried Osteopathy ? My Osteopath has put right many of my very painful problems over the years. Sometimes it's muscles going into spasm with the pain and making things much worse. With my current problem, the pain is making all my bum muscles (technical term), such as the Gluteus, go into spasm and these squash the Sciatic nerve, giving me pain. I have exercises to stretch and relax these muscles, which seems to help.

[struth]

Have you tried Osteopathy ? My Osteopath has put right many of my very painful problems over the years. Sometimes it's muscles going into spasm with the pain and making things much worse. With my current problem, the pain is making all my bum muscles (technical term), such as the Gluteus, go into spasm and these squash the Sciatic nerve, giving me pain. I have exercises to stretch and relax these muscles, which seems to help.

I asked about that but was warned not to, as it could easily make things a lot worse Dave. i guess i'm just gonna have to put up with it, and my hip as the wont replace that either.
Think im on a knife edge sometimes :D bollocks to them all...i will survive as gloiria used to say

[mightymonoped]

Not really specific to the particular conditions being discussed but worth mentioning anyway I think...you might also want to consider spending a bit of time in a swimming pool if there is one accessible?

I have suffered from neuropathic problems for nigh on twenty years and have found that even just standing in a swimming pool can offer both immediate and longer terms help with mitigating some of the joint and nerve damage accrued through continual use of crutches.

My left femur was completely removed from the hip socket (hip disarticulation) in 2000 and the resulting clump of nerves (Sciatic being the biggie) and scar tissue results in sporadic and intense bouts of neuropathic pain, usually lasting between 5-8 hours and nearly always kicking in just as I am about to sleep. This usually finds me desperately trying to distract myself from short but intense pain deep inside the stump/ pelvis area for most of the night until it gradually wears off.

The pain is usually one of two types, the most common being an 'electric shock' to the nerve, which often causes yelping out loud. The other type is a brief burning, more like having a cigarette lighter held under my stump for a second or so. Neither type responds to normal painkillers, although they can sometimes take a little bit of the edge off.

From what I understand, only opiates will deal with this kind of pain immediately, so that's not really an option given that the episodes are sporadic. I know that anti-convulsive drugs such as carbamazepine helps with this kind of thing, as I was treated with it for phantom limb pain in hospital in the early days. Having said that, I don't really want to be on long term medication for an occasional or sporadic issue. The anti-convulsive drugs do work though, but take a week or so to really do their thing.

What I try to do instead is allow my body to 'unwind' as much as possible and some floating and gentle swimming is a great, low impact way of undoing some of the damage that gravity and continual crutch use does over the course of the week.

Tony

[hifinutt]

so good to hear things a re improving , thank goodness for gabapentin and other such drugs for neuropathic pain

[hifi_dave]

I'm not sure how much of an effect that is having. I am on 100 mG because of my Kidneys - the usual dose is 2400 mG but whatever, my condition is not as bad as it was. Maybe the Gabapentin helps me sleep and the exercises are helping the condition. The Consultant did say it would be a long job.

[struth]

Not really specific to the particular conditions being discussed but worth mentioning anyway I think...you might also want to consider spending a bit of time in a swimming pool if there is one accessible?

I have suffered from neuropathic problems for nigh on twenty years and have found that even just standing in a swimming pool can offer both immediate and longer terms help with mitigating some of the joint and nerve damage accrued through continual use of crutches.

My left femur was completely removed from the hip socket (hip disarticulation) in 2000 and the resulting clump of nerves (Sciatic being the biggie) and scar tissue results in sporadic and intense bouts of neuropathic pain, usually lasting between 5-8 hours and nearly always kicking in just as I am about to sleep. This usually finds me desperately trying to distract myself from short but intense pain deep inside the stump/ pelvis area for most of the night until it gradually wears off.

The pain is usually one of two types, the most common being an 'electric shock' to the nerve, which often causes yelping out loud. The other type is a brief burning, more like having a cigarette lighter held under my stump for a second or so. Neither type responds to normal painkillers, although they can sometimes take a little bit of the edge off.

From what I understand, only opiates will deal with this kind of pain immediately, so that's not really an option given that the episodes are sporadic. I know that anti-convulsive drugs such as carbamazepine helps with this kind of thing, as I was treated with it for phantom limb pain in hospital in the early days. Having said that, I don't really want to be on long term medication for an occasional or sporadic issue. The anti-convulsive drugs do work though, but take a week or so to really do their thing.

What I try to do instead is allow my body to 'unwind' as much as possible and some floating and gentle swimming is a great, low impact way of undoing some of the damage that gravity and continual crutch use does over the course of the week.

Tony

good your getting relief from the pool. my wife used to like it, and i and my daughter took her. i held her in pool etc but needed daughter for the changing room.lol

used to love swimming and in fact was a champion at one time. was on telly too :ner: but i couldnt manage the changing room now. can barely get dressed at home :lol:
its great therapy as it lightens the skeletal load.

[struth]

so good to hear things a re improving , thank goodness for gabapentin and other such drugs for neuropathic pain

i use tramadol and diclofenac with paracetamol flung in to top up.

[AJSki2fly]

i use tramadol and diclofenac with paracetamol flung in to top up.

Be careful with the diclofenac. I took it for around 8 years for lower back injury only find out recently it and other related drugs, Ibuprofen, Voltarol and so on can cause hardening of the arteries and increased risk of Heart problems. It can lead to cardio vascular disease (heart disease), which I developed 10 years on from stopping taking Ibuprofen for pain relief, could be a coincidence but probably a contributory factor.

[TheMooN]

Naproxen is an alternative to Diclofenac with fewer side affects

[struth]

Be careful with the diclofenac. I took it for around 8 years for lower back injury only find out recently it and other related drugs, Ibuprofen, Voltarol and so on can cause hardening of the arteries and increased risk of Heart problems. It can lead to cardio vascular disease (heart disease), which I developed 10 years on from stopping taking Ibuprofen for pain relief, could be a coincidence but probably a contributory factor.

yup, it can cause internal bleeds too, but without it i'd have topped myself a long time ago.

[struth]

Naproxen is an alternative to Diclofenac with fewer side affects

interesting, i used to be on naproxen for a while but when hip got bad it didnt touch it for some reason. thats when i tried diclofenac as a last resort; it helps a bit and all i can expect

[mightymonoped]

yup, it can cause internal bleeds too, but without it i'd have topped myself a long time ago.

Sorry to hear your having such a bad time with it all Grant. I know how insufferable it can get when it's relentless like that, just have to do whatever you can to get relief. :-(

[AJSki2fly]

Naproxen is an alternative to Diclofenac with fewer side affects



interesting, i used to be on naproxen for a while but when hip got bad it didnt touch it for some reason. thats when i tried diclofenac as a last resort; it helps a bit and all i can expect

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diclofenac , I just went there to check I was not confused about Diclofenac. Also as you can see naproxen is also in the list. I believe someone else on AoS had heart issues from these drugs as well.


Diclofenac consumption has been associated with significantly increased vascular and coronary risk in a study including coxib, diclofenac, ibuprofen and naproxen.[18] Upper gastrointestinal complications were also reported.[18] Major adverse cardiovascular events (MACE) were increased by about a third by diclofenac, chiefly due to an increase in major coronary events.[18] Compared with placebo, of 1000 patients allocated to diclofenac for a year, three more had major vascular events, one of which was fatal.[18] Vascular death was increased significantly by diclofenac.[18]

[struth]

Cheery bassa [emoji23]

[hifi_dave]

You have to weigh up the possible side effects against the improvements in your condition. I am constantly on 7 meds + the Gabapentin I am currently on. When I read the side effects of any of them it is scary but without them I'd be dead..:deceased:

[struth]

im on 12 at moment i think. used to be more. trouble is of course they all have consequences and they add up.

[hifi_dave]

There are interactions which the professionals don't always know about.

[struth]

There are interactions which the professionals don't always know about.

very true. they put me on an new all singing, dancing inhaler and it gave me an itch all over body...terrible; i looked at the sheet and it said this is possible, but when i told doc he said it didnt, :doh: i told him too check it out and i was right, when i came off it it faded away...

[AJSki2fly]

very true. they put me on an new all singing, dancing inhaler and it gave me an itch all over body...terrible; i looked at the sheet and it said this is possible, but when i told doc he said it didnt, :doh: i told him too check it out and i was right, when i came off it it faded away...

Yep the medics often don't listen to their patients.

When my heart problems came to light and I had stents to stop the heart attack I was dumped on the usual 6 drugs, beta blocker, ACE inhibitor, aspirin, anti-platelet, statin, and anti angina. within 2 weeks I had skin rash, I had terrible headaches and was on the edge of passing out and my legs just hurt, so much I could hardly walk.

It took 8 weeks for them to work out that the beta blocker was screwing my pulse up and as a result my resting heart rate was dropping to 40-45 bpm, hence why I was nearly passing out. The Ramipril was causing the skin rash, but the GP didn't want to give me an alternative because of cost but the surgeon prescribed it in the end, within 3 days the rash had gone. I had to go through 5 different statins until I found one that I could tolerate at a low level, and they gave me another drug to compensate that gets the cholesterol out through the bowel. I have since had to change to a stronger stating and am gradually increasing the dose, which so far is OK. I have been warned that nearly all the drugs will become ineffective within 10 years as my body will become used to them and will adjust so they will have to be changed. Hey ho!

[hifi_dave]

I wondered how long it takes for drugs to stop working as the body becomes used to them. Some of mine I have been on for 12 years now.

[AJSki2fly]

I wondered how long it takes for drugs to stop working as the body becomes used to them. Some of mine I have been on for 12 years now.

A good friend had first heart attack when he was 46, he had another one a year later, he is now 59, he had two stents fitted. He was on the usual cocktail of drugs, as me above for about 8 years, then they started changing them as he was getting blood pressure issue, and othe poroblems, they left him alone for a few more years and then about 2 years ago reduced his drugs and he now only take 3 I believe. They said the others were having no effect anymore.

[hifinutt]

You have to weigh up the possible side effects against the improvements in your condition. I am constantly on 7 meds + the Gabapentin I am currently on. When I read the side effects of any of them it is scary but without them I'd be dead..:deceased:

loads of people take gabapentin and similar types and seem reasonably ok

[hifinutt]

Yep the medics often don't listen to their patients.

When my heart problems came to light and I had stents to stop the heart attack I was dumped on the usual 6 drugs, beta blocker, ACE inhibitor, aspirin, anti-platelet, statin, and anti angina. within 2 weeks I had skin rash, I had terrible headaches and was on the edge of passing out and my legs just hurt, so much I could hardly walk.

It took 8 weeks for them to work out that the beta blocker was screwing my pulse up and as a result my resting heart rate was dropping to 40-45 bpm, hence why I was nearly passing out. The Ramipril was causing the skin rash, but the GP didn't want to give me an alternative because of cost but the surgeon prescribed it in the end, within 3 days the rash had gone. I had to go through 5 different statins until I found one that I could tolerate at a low level, and they gave me another drug to compensate that gets the cholesterol out through the bowel. I have since had to change to a stronger stating and am gradually increasing the dose, which so far is OK. I have been warned that nearly all the drugs will become ineffective within 10 years as my body will become used to them and will adjust so they will have to be changed. Hey ho!

mmm a severe case of iatrogenics [is when a treatment causes more harm than benefit. As iatros means healer in Greek, the word means “caused by the healer” or “brought by the healer.”] so much of illness is caused by sidefects sadly . merck have still not recovered from their having to remove fantastic drugs like Viox and celebrex which caused heart attacks sadly

https://www.spine-health.com/treatment/pain-medication/understanding-cox-2-inhibitor-side-effects

[hifi_dave]

Had my first one to one Pilates session this morning. Seems quite interesting and building on the years of Alexander I used to do. Alexander has a teacher to move you, so that you get used to having free moving muscles and less tension and to become what they call 'body aware'. Pilates does a similar thing but you move your own body.

Just now she is concentrating on freeing up my immobile lower back and building my core muscles. Gotta go some because I don't think I have any muscles there..:rolleyes:

[mightymonoped]

Had my first one to one Pilates session this morning. Seems quite interesting and building on the years of Alexander I used to do. Alexander has a teacher to move you, so that you get used to having free moving muscles and less tension and to become what they call 'body aware'. Pilates does a similar thing but you move your own body.

Just now she is concentrating on freeing up my immobile lower back and building my core muscles. Gotta go some because I don't think I have any muscles there..:rolleyes:

Nice! Best physio I ever had was with a Pilates specialist. She also used the reformer to great effect (isolating muscle groups).