View Full Version : So what is a grounding box
paulf-2007
07-01-2019, 18:44
As the title what is a grounding box.
Good question. I guess it depends on the box. Some seem to go to mains ground. Most don't.
Either way they seem to produce a reaction
MikeMusic
07-01-2019, 18:57
They seem to be made differently. All say they improve sound quality.
My Coherent RTZ is a solid lump of metal
A grounding box is (usually, but not always) a passive box of mixed compounds that attaches to unused input and/or output sockets on the back of ones equipment. The concept is that it provides a low impedance route to 'ground' for the signal, as opposed to the mains.
However, there are a number of conceptual problems with the above aims. The two primary issues, as I see them are 1/ at some point in any hi-fi system the mains and signal grounds are tied together or the signal ground would be completely floating (this is true in the UK at least where every 13A wall socket has a link directly to ground (the earth pin). 2/ This parasitic ground box would have to have a lower impedance than that presented by the mains earth and this seems unlikely given the compact dimensions of all these accessories.
Bear in mind though that this a new type of accessory for the audio market (the only market such a thing exists for) and so 'what it is' and 'how it works' are not very well defined concepts.
paulf-2007
07-01-2019, 20:15
Sounds like foo, I won't trouble myself any further, thank you gentlemen
I alway try to keep an open mind to these types of things. As much as I doubt they do anything more than just bunging a wire on to your gear to ground them, but the thing remains that they might. If I had one to try I would but not buying one to try
If one comes my way I will try it out - but I'm not yet at the point where I am actively seeking the loan of one and I'm nowhere near a place where I would consider buying one out of interest.
paulf-2007
07-01-2019, 21:19
My set up sounds so good I don't think I could handle an improvement ;)
I have a Russ Andrews 'Power Purifier' grounding box with various additional modules which in addition to grounding also claims to to reject RFI and other stuff. Can't say I notice much/any difference.
Maybe I have very clean power and negligible RFI or maybe it is all foo.
I designed a mains filter which was copied and sold by a man with initials RA when I bought the components from him.
I think it was called 'the silencer' by him.
The simple answer to the OP's question:
A method of extracting large amounts of money from the gullible!
And, no, I haven't tried one. However, I always find that line of reasoning (you have to try something before you can comment on it, etc) specious. After all, I've never tasted a dog turd but I'm very sure I wouldn't like it, howoever well it's marketed :)
dave2010
09-01-2019, 16:45
The simple answer to the OP's question:
A method of extracting large amounts of money from the gullible!
And, no, I haven't tried one. However, I always find that line of reasoning (you have to try something before you can comment on it, etc) specious. After all, I've never tasted a dog turd but I'm very sure I wouldn't like it, however well it's marketed :):) :)
paulf-2007
09-01-2019, 20:13
The simple answer to the OP's question:
A method of extracting large amounts of money from the gullible!
And, no, I haven't tried one. However, I always find that line of reasoning (you have to try something before you can comment on it, etc) specious. After all, I've never tasted a dog turd but I'm very sure I wouldn't like it, howoever well it's marketed :)
I asked what a grounding box was because I hadn't heard of them until recently. I suspected it was foo and as you say a method of separating audiophools from their money. Anything by RA is snake oil and anyone foolish enough to pay vast sums of money for a shiny fuse deserves what they get. Now RA sells grounding boxes, had I known that I wouldn't have bothered to ask.
Discopants
13-01-2019, 19:51
If one comes my way I will try it out - but I'm not yet at the point where I am actively seeking the loan of one and I'm nowhere near a place where I would consider buying one out of interest.
I read some interesting reviews of the entreq ones a few months ago , but the prices seemed bonkers. I did find a DIY you tube video for one that i actually started buying a few bits to pit together, but i got bogged down in researching the minerals to fill it. Then i splurged on a new amp with vastly improved signal to noise and a built in streamer and ive not taken the project any further. I think the theory of lower noise floor sounds plausible to me. I dont think i would notice amything on my current system though.
Been trying to make sense of these for a while, but it's only the coherent one that sparks my interest - and not at RRP
MikeMusic
17-01-2019, 10:04
Been trying to make sense of these for a while, but it's only the coherent one that sparks my interest - and not at RRP
Don't try the Coherent if you don't want to spend money
You won't be able to let it go away after you have heard it
:)
Make your own one 'Blue Peter' style. You'll need a cardboard box, some wire, an empty Fairy Liquid bottle (make sure you ask permission before you take it) some sticky-back plastic and a metal coat hanger.
hifi_dave
17-01-2019, 12:47
Exactly. If you believe these boxes improve the sound, then make your own for a couple of quid.
I can't fathom how they can charge hundreds for these boxes. The other ones are the grounding leads - a phono plug, bit of wire and a mains plug for hundreds of pounds.
Hi Mike,
i've seen some of your previous posts on the grounding box, have you tried it on any other system or at a bake-off, if so did it make the same differences or are the differences not immediately obvious ?
kind regards,
Julian
earsopen
17-01-2019, 20:15
This is a cheap shot from a dealer -
"Exactly. If you believe these boxes improve the sound, then make your own for a couple of quid.
I can't fathom how they can charge hundreds for these boxes. The other ones are the grounding leads - a phono plug, bit of wire and a mains plug for hundreds of pounds."
The same could be said of any cable you sell, or any speaker. Just cobble some up with old bits from the shed, bell wire and old car speaker drive units, and wood from an old wardrobe.
The comments add nothing to the debate, especially if you have not tried a decent grounding box.
It still astounds me that so many people will not try something which other people have used and reported positively about, because they know it will not work.
With such closed minds, do not try a round the world cruise because as you know the world is flat and you could fall off the edge.
To answer a question above, when a friend first installed a grounding box it was then tried in two other systems - now we all have them.
walpurgis
17-01-2019, 20:26
I'm sure you could have avoided the patronising tone had you tried.
What would be good is if a dealer of such a grounding box would lend a demo unit which could do the rounds of AoS members. Then a debate on real world usage could be had. And the dealer may even get more sales. So a win win.
§
I'm very seriously thinking of buying a grounding box.
Have been in contact with Andrew at Signal Ground Solutions regarding one of his.
Berni217
17-01-2019, 22:22
This is a cheap shot from a dealer -
"Exactly. If you believe these boxes improve the sound, then make your own for a couple of quid.
I can't fathom how they can charge hundreds for these boxes. The other ones are the grounding leads - a phono plug, bit of wire and a mains plug for hundreds of pounds."
The same could be said of any cable you sell, or any speaker. Just cobble some up with old bits from the shed, bell wire and old car speaker drive units, and wood from an old wardrobe.
The comments add nothing to the debate, especially if you have not tried a decent grounding box.
It still astounds me that so many people will not try something which other people have used and reported positively about, because they know it will not work.
With such closed minds, do not try a round the world cruise because as you know the world is flat and you could fall off the edge.
To answer a question above, when a friend first installed a grounding box it was then tried in two other systems - now we all have them.
+1
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Berni217
17-01-2019, 22:23
What would be good is if a dealer of such a grounding box would lend a demo unit which could do the rounds of AoS members. Then a debate on real world usage could be had. And the dealer may even get more sales. So a win win.
§
Maybe you could contact one yourself! Tony at Coherent is a nice guy.
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hifi_dave
18-01-2019, 16:31
This is a cheap shot from a dealer -
"Exactly. If you believe these boxes improve the sound, then make your own for a couple of quid.
I can't fathom how they can charge hundreds for these boxes. The other ones are the grounding leads - a phono plug, bit of wire and a mains plug for hundreds of pounds."
The same could be said of any cable you sell, or any speaker. Just cobble some up with old bits from the shed, bell wire and old car speaker drive units, and wood from an old wardrobe.
The comments add nothing to the debate, especially if you have not tried a decent grounding box.
It still astounds me that so many people will not try something which other people have used and reported positively about, because they know it will not work.
With such closed minds, do not try a round the world cruise because as you know the world is flat and you could fall off the edge.
To answer a question above, when a friend first installed a grounding box it was then tried in two other systems - now we all have them.
I guess that is aimed at me. If so, I can confirm that I have tried a couple of grounding boxes and a grounding lead, both courtesy of a customer considering purchase.
I stand by my query at the prices when all that is necessary is some wire or copper strip, a mains plug, phono plug and a terminal or two. Maybe they work for some people, it's the price I find difficult to swallow.
Similarly with exotic cables. I know how little some of these cost and the manufacturer's/distributor's markup is often bordering on the obscene.
I won't bother to comment on your home made speaker idea.
MikeMusic
18-01-2019, 16:43
Hi Mike,
i've seen some of your previous posts on the grounding box, have you tried it on any other system or at a bake-off, if so did it make the same differences or are the differences not immediately obvious ?
kind regards,
Julian
Hi Julian
Have offered to demo and for a bake off against an SGS
No takers so far.
My recent test was with the boss in place next to me.
3 cables disconnected from the RTZ grounder
Test
Back again
Test
She had no idea what was going on
"The second one was better"
Confirming what I heard
:)
Differences are immediately obvious
Firebottle
18-01-2019, 17:00
I would love to hear a demo but Surrey is a bit of a long way :(
earsopen
18-01-2019, 21:58
Somebody earlier in this thread mentioned that they had a Russ Andrews Power Purifier. That is not a grounding box, but a filter.
As far as I know, RA does not have a grounding box as such, but has a system for grounding using his 'RF Router'. If all casework is linked using grounding cables, then to the RF Router, it can then be linked to an external ground spike and comply with current electrical regulations.
sq225917
19-01-2019, 09:23
He doesn't have a pointless box full of beach scraping and roof repair cut offs but he does sell many bits of grounding gear based on good science.
What would be good is if a dealer of such a grounding box would lend a demo unit which could do the rounds of AoS members. Then a debate on real world usage could be had. And the dealer may even get more sales. So a win win.
§
But why should they?
Why can’t you or anyone who wants to try, buy one and just return it if you don’t like it and get your money back.
The sense of entitlement on these threads is astonishing on occasions.
As I have said on many a thread, what someone chooses to spend their hard earned money on is up to them.
Just because someone doesn’t ‘believe’ it’ll make a difference, doesn’t mean it won’t for others.
If I chose to try one of these grounding boxes, I will comment on how good or bad it is and not before.
But why should they?
Why can’t you or anyone who wants to try, buy one and just return it if you don’t like it and get your money back.
The sense of entitlement on these threads is astonishing on occasions.
You would need to buy it mail order so that you are covered by the distance selling regs which give you 14 days to return it for any reason. If you go to a shop and buy it you have no right of return.
Berni217
27-01-2019, 15:15
You would need to buy it mail order so that you are covered by the distance selling regs which give you 14 days to return it for any reason. If you go to a shop and buy it you have no right of return.
It’s down to whether the shop has a return policy or not. Some shops will accept returns ...
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You would need to buy it mail order so that you are covered by the distance selling regs which give you 14 days to return it for any reason. If you go to a shop and buy it you have no right of return.
I hear of many people 'trying' out expensive kit (not necessarily audio kit) and returning it under the distance selling regs. This does not seem fair on dealers/sellers who then have a used piece of equipment which they can only sell at a steep discount. A used demo unit seems far more fair. No dealer/seller is obliged of course to offer such used demo units.
I wouldn’t buy off any dealer who didn’t offer sale or return, and surely you have 28 days to return anything under UK law?
nope. buy in a shop and you dont like it or change your mind, tough.legally. you get 14 days from date you receive online goods to request a return and then 14 more to actually return it
Face to face selling has different regulations as the customer gets to see/look/feel listen to what ever they are buying before parting with any funds same as its ever been however most dealers / shop owners are usually human and will come to an happy medium for customers except for special order items
Distance selling is very different customer can change their minds for any reason virtually and return for a full refund less postage, however their are caveats depends on the sellers terms and conditions
So if you return the equipment it was sent out in turn you have nothing to worry about, taking the piss like most eBay specialists can leave you a specified percentage less than your purchase price all perfectly legally read the T&C's
Remember you are responsible for the return of the equipment until it is physically delivered same as the dealer is when it's shipped to you
Play the game and pretty much 99% of dealers will be the same no problem
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