View Full Version : Raspberry pi and the delights of invisible media!
WESTLOWER
27-04-2019, 22:34
Well, latest little upgrade to the digital side is a pair of new Ethernet cables.
I am not a great believer in ethernet cables making a lot of difference so imagine my surprise when these little beauties blew my socks off! A pair of 5m cables cost under £20, ridiculous.
Where does this madness end? LPSU on the router next?? https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190427/4ec6c52670392a06b971cf09d7603996.jpg
Interesting this ‘upgrade’ on Ethernet cables...I picked the brains of a very well regarded net cable installer and we got chatting about Ethernet cables in relation to hifi.. he reckoned as long as it was cat 5 cable he would bet his house & his kids there wasn’t a sonic benefit to be had anything else. Obviously I asked the question as it’s valid in this community... but there you have it. He works this with this stuff 38 hours a week. He laughed when I told him £££ Ethernet cables in hifi existed.
Bigman80
27-04-2019, 22:37
Interesting this ‘upgrade’ on Ethernet cables...I picked the brains of a very well regarded net cable installer and we got chatting about Ethernet cables in relation to hifi.. he reckoned as long as it was cat 5 cable he would bet his house & his kids there wasn’t a sonic benefit to be had anything else. Obviously I asked the question as it’s valid in this community... but there you have it. He works this with this stuff 38 hours a week. He laughed when I told him £££ Ethernet cables in hifi existed.I'd bet him his house that I could demonstrate it here. Its madness and like you say, there "shouldn't" be a difference but there definitely is.
I'm absolutely convinced.
WESTLOWER
27-04-2019, 23:24
I'd bet him his house that I could demonstrate it here. Its madness and like you say, there "shouldn't" be a difference but there definitely is.
I'm absolutely convinced.
Ok..I don’t doubt you can hear it. Just relaying what a so called expert Ethernet engineer said.
Bourneendboy
28-04-2019, 07:13
I wish the cables all came out the same side of the Pi/hat, if I use an Ethernet cable on my set up it doesn't fit in the small space I have for it:rolleyes:
Bigman80
28-04-2019, 07:33
I wish the cables all came out the same side of the Pi/hat, if I use an Ethernet cable on my set up it doesn't fit in the small space I have for it:rolleyes:Yes!, Great point. Its a bit of a pain but it sounds good enough to forgive lol
Firebottle
28-04-2019, 08:00
I'm thinking of building mine into a half width 'standard' case eventually, should give enough room to allow for all leads to bend round and exit at the rear.
Bigman80
28-04-2019, 08:54
I'm thinking of building mine into a half width 'standard' case eventually, should give enough room to allow for all leads to bend round and exit at the rear.Reboxing the pi? That's a cool idea. You can get the GPIO extender cables for very little.
I'm thinking of reboxing the two LPSU units into one or at least coupling them together with a new faceplate and on of those displays you got for yours. Would that be simple?
Sherwood
28-04-2019, 09:15
I'm thinking of building mine into a half width 'standard' case eventually, should give enough room to allow for all leads to bend round and exit at the rear.
I was thinking of buying the Allo Katana but was put off by how messy it was with so many cables protruding from each and every angle. I posted Andre (then of Allo) to suggest that at its price point the Katana should have the option of a more ergonomic case with most connections on the rear. I am sure there is a market for such a case and probably a bigger market for a similar case for the Allo Boss.
Interesting this ‘upgrade’ on Ethernet cables...I picked the brains of a very well regarded net cable installer and we got chatting about Ethernet cables in relation to hifi.. he reckoned as long as it was cat 5 cable he would bet his house & his kids there wasn’t a sonic benefit to be had anything else. Obviously I asked the question as it’s valid in this community... but there you have it. He works this with this stuff 38 hours a week. He laughed when I told him £££ Ethernet cables in hifi existed.
duronic isnt overly expensive. nice cable tho and sonically it does seem to sound better for some reason. not using mine at moment but will get it plumbed in again when i can
I was thinking of buying the Allo Katana but was put off by how messy it was with so many cables protruding from each and every angle. I posted Andre (then of Allo) to suggest that at its price point the Katana should have the option of a more ergonomic case with most connections on the rear. I am sure there is a market for such a case and probably a bigger market for a similar case for the Allo Boss.
yup, it put me off with all the boards, wires etc and not proper case; especially as its a fair whack of dosh. stick for now with the digione in the nice ali case
mightymonoped
28-04-2019, 09:54
I’m thinking a simple two stack aluminium case would be nice for the Katana?
One side for RPi & Isolator
One side for Katana stack
2 x 5v connectors (clean and dirty)
All connections at rear.
This would allow flexibility in power options for 5V supplies (switched, linear or powerbank).
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The Link might help with ideas when considering a enclosure for a Pi.
https://www.element14.com/community/community/raspberry-pi/blog/2019/04/26/an-industrial-enclosure-for-raspberry-pi
Ok..I don’t doubt you can hear it. Just relaying what a so called expert Ethernet engineer said.
As a computer nerd myself, there is absolutely no reason for it to make any difference. Ethernet is not sending clocked signals, it is sending data to be clocked, with every frame having an FCS (Frame Check Sequence), which drops the frame if an error is detected. These errors are caused by faulty cables or faulty hardware in general. They are *not* caused by functional cables of the defined specification.
People don’t seem to understand how easy it is for data to be passed perfectly. The issues in digital audio are much more around clocks (phase noise) and RFI (often an issue with USB).
I would be happy to spend an afternoon sat behind a computer switching Ethernet cables out if anyone is interested in the differences, but I won’t tell you which cable is being used. ;)
This is an interesting experiment: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-42338067
Sending broadband signals down 2 metres of twine soaked in salt water at 3.5mbps! Enough to send bit perfect CD quality signals, which have a 1.41mbps bitrate.
Agreed, you have to be careful what you are comparing with. IE what cable are you replacing? shielded twisted pair or unshielded etc. I think audible differences noted are not down to the data transfer itself but as you say related to noise and ground plane coupling. There is an argument that correctly made shielded CAT5e maybe the best as it has a lower bandwidth and attenuates higher frequency’s better.
Bigman80
29-04-2019, 10:41
Agreed, you have to be careful what you are comparing with. IE what cable are you replacing? shielded twisted pair or unshielded etc. I think audible differences noted are not down to the data transfer itself but as you say related to noise and ground plane coupling. There is an argument that correctly made shielded CAT5e maybe the best as it has a lower bandwidth and attenuates higher frequency’s better.I replaced 5e with 6a and it definitely altered the sound, although I'm not suggesting it may be anything other than just better shielding etc that's had the effect. But it's definitely, subjectivley, better.
Bigman80
29-04-2019, 10:43
Agreed, you have to be careful what you are comparing with. IE what cable are you replacing? shielded twisted pair or unshielded etc. I think audible differences noted are not down to the data transfer itself but as you say related to noise and ground plane coupling. There is an argument that correctly made shielded CAT5e maybe the best as it has a lower bandwidth and attenuates higher frequency’s better.Why would that matter if the audio signal is not being carried by the cable? I thought it was just 1&0s. You'll have to forgive my ignorance, I'm very new to digital audio
Why would that matter if the audio signal is not being carried by the cable? I thought it was just 1&0s. You'll have to forgive my ignorance, I'm very new to digital audio
You have to consider how the digital information is being sent. Even though it is digital the values are still being transmitted by varying voltage with time, exactly the same as any analogue signal.
People tend to think if the 'bits' are sent perfectly then the sound must also be perfect but in fact whether the bits are perfect or not has no appreciable effect on what you will hear unless there are uncorrected errors of transmission, in which cased you will get drop-outs. Whereas noise and distortion that are not part of the transmitted signal but are 'along for the ride' can have an audible effect heard as grit, hash, hardness, etc
Bigman80
29-04-2019, 11:36
You have to consider how the digital information is being sent. Even though it is digital the values are still being transmitted by varying voltage with time, exactly the same as any analogue signal.
People tend to think if the 'bits' are sent perfectly then the sound must also be perfect but in fact whether the bits are perfect or not has no appreciable effect on what you will hear unless there are uncorrected errors of transmission, in which cased you will get drop-outs. Whereas noise and distortion that are not part of the transmitted signal but are 'along for the ride' can have an audible effect heard as grit, hash, hardness, etcAh, I see!
Well, in all honesty, I never expected anything from this cable change and have been incredibly surprised and further pleased by it.
ianlenco
29-04-2019, 13:01
Hi Oliver,
It's great that you are really enjoying your digital setup but I have a question about this and the ethernet cables. I can sort of understand that the quality of the cable might be important if music is being streamed from the internet but am I right in presuming that if the only reason for having the digital source connected to the router is to pick up metadata for CD rips and allow control of the source over wifi then an ethernet cable won't make any difference to sound quality? I use an Innuos Zen Mini music server and do not stream other than when listening to the radio.
Bigman80
29-04-2019, 13:42
Hi Oliver,
It's great that you are really enjoying your digital setup but I have a question about this and the ethernet cables. I can sort of understand that the quality of the cable might be important if music is being streamed from the internet but am I right in presuming that if the only reason for having the digital source connected to the router is to pick up metadata for CD rips and allow control of the source over wifi then an ethernet cable won't make any difference to sound quality? I use an Innuos Zen Mini music server and do not stream other than when listening to the radio.Yep, I see what you're saying. I'm streaming locally so my chain is this:
Jriver/Media Center/NAS (all in one on laptop) > Ethernet Cable > Router > Ethernet Cable > Volumio
Volumio is just a renderer(?)
I don't stream from any outside sources like Tidal/Spotify.
ianlenco
29-04-2019, 17:11
Jriver/Media Center/NAS (all in one on laptop) > Ethernet Cable > Router > Ethernet Cable > Volumio
Mmm, still don't totally understand this - where's the Raspberry Pi? Presumably the NAS is outputting to the Pi acting as DAC which is running Volumio. In which case can't you go straight from the NAS (connected to internet) to the Pi and miss out the router in the chain or have I totally misunderstood this setup?
I once had a Pi with digiamp connected to a Vortexbox which worked very well as a second system but I'm now happily using a Zen Mini into an Eastern Electric Minimax DAC. Trouble is your Damascene conversion from vinyl to digital is getting me interested in the Pi/Allo combination you've been talking about. :lol:
music goes from pc via ethernet to the router then on to pi running volumio. then on to amp
Bigman80
29-04-2019, 17:20
Jriver/Media Center/NAS (all in one on laptop) > Ethernet Cable > Router > Ethernet Cable > Volumio
Mmm, still don't totally understand this - where's the Raspberry Pi? Presumably the NAS is outputting to the Pi acting as DAC which is running Volumio. In which case can't you go straight from the NAS (connected to internet) to the Pi and miss out the router in the chain or have I totally misunderstood this setup?
I once had a Pi with digiamp connected to a Vortexbox which worked very well as a second system but I'm now happily using a Zen Mini into an Eastern Electric Minimax DAC. Trouble is your Damascene conversion from vinyl to digital is getting me interested in the Pi/Allo combination you've been talking about. [emoji38]I don't know how to explain it better I'm afraid lol
Right.
The music storage and upsampling is done via software called Jriver on the laptop which is connected to the router with the new ethernet cable.
The Pi/Allo Boss is connected to the router by another new Ethernet cable.
I control the Pi via Jriver which turns Volumio into a renderer I believe.
That is how I have them all connected.
I *could* connect the USB storage with the music files directly to the Pi and use Volumio to play back the files BUT it doesn't sound anywhere near as good that way.
USB connection should be absolutely avoided whenever possible IMO.
Yes, you and everyone else should absolutely be interested. Its undeniable once heard. [emoji6]
ianlenco
29-04-2019, 18:34
Thanks Oliver, I understand better your system and reasoning.
Bigman80
29-04-2019, 18:36
Thanks Oliver, I understand better your system and reasoning.No worries. I'm still new to this but usb wasn't optimal and doing the setup this way have far better results.
No worries. I'm still new to this but usb wasn't optimal and doing the setup this way have far better results.
It’s a really nice setup you have. I also agree that USB is not the best way. USB seems to smooth over and lose dynamics compared to good SPDIF or in-DAC clocking. It’s why I switched from USB to SPDIF to an Allo DigiOne Player and a BNC cable. :)
Bigman80
29-04-2019, 19:16
It’s a really nice setup you have. I also agree that USB is not the best way. USB seems to smooth over and lose dynamics compared to good SPDIF or in-DAC clocking. It’s why I switched from USB to SPDIF to an Allo DigiOne Player and a BNC cable. :)Thank You!
Soundstage collapsed here too. I can't remember who said to avoid USB but they were spot on.
I don't know how to explain it better I'm afraid lol
Right.
The music storage and upsampling is done via software called Jriver on the laptop which is connected to the router with the new ethernet cable.
The Pi/Allo Boss is connected to the router by another new Ethernet cable.
I control the Pi via Jriver which turns Volumio into a renderer I believe.
That is how I have them all connected.
I *could* connect the USB storage with the music files directly to the Pi and use Volumio to play back the files BUT it doesn't sound anywhere near as good that way.
USB connection should be absolutely avoided whenever possible IMO.
Yes, you and everyone else should absolutely be interested. Its undeniable once heard. [emoji6]
Once heard Oli, I think most folk listening to digital set ups will appreciate how great this set up sounds.
As you have done with your analogue system you have painstakingly put this together, listening to each addition/improvement on the way and evaluating whether it works or not.
I can vouch for Oliver's set up as I have an exact replica except I use Audirvana as the server software.
The SQ from this set up cannot be underestimated as it can compete with both of our analogue systems and sometimes beat them. And for me it is the analogue nature of this digital system that is the killer deal as I compare it constantly with my vinyl set up.
Bigman80
29-04-2019, 20:01
Once heard Oli, I think most folk listening to digital set ups will appreciate how great this set up sounds.
As you have done with your analogue system you have painstakingly put this together, listening to each addition/improvement on the way and evaluating whether it works or not.
I can vouch for Oliver's set up as I have an exact replica except I use Audirvana as the server software.
The SQ from this set up cannot be underestimated as it can compete with both of our analogue systems and sometimes beat them. And for me it is the analogue nature of this digital system that is the killer deal as I compare it constantly with my vinyl set up.
It's superb and a ridiculous bargain.
Yes, we've kind of gone in tandem on this journey and whilst i accept one could get swept up with enthusiasm, i genuinely feel a little bit sick when i think of the performance i get from this digital rig for the cost Vs what my Analogue system provides for nearly 11x the price. Both have an area they do that the other can't but i am serious when i say, has i heard this Pi setup 5 years ago, Vinyl would never have got off the ground here.
I'll always play vinyl but this is the future for investment and searching for improvements for my money.
BTW the "analogue sound" transfers as Fluidity to me. This rig has the ability to trick you into forgetting its digital at all. Wizardry.
It's superb and a ridiculous bargain.
Yes, we've kind of gone in tandem on this journey and whilst i accept one could get swept up with enthusiasm, i genuinely feel a little bit sick when i think of the performance i get from this digital rig for the cost Vs what my Analogue system provides for nearly 11x the price. Both have an area they do that the other can't but i am serious when i say, has i heard this Pi setup 5 years ago, Vinyl would never have got off the ground here.
I'll always play vinyl but this is the future for investment and searching for improvements for my money.
BTW the "analogue sound" transfers as Fluidity to me. This rig has the ability to trick you into forgetting its digital at all. Wizardry.
I agree Oli, it can certainly trick you into forgetting its digital. Having spent quite sometime listening to a fair number of digital systems this one is up there with the best.
Took delivery of the Boss 1.2 the weekend and it does indeed sound fantastic.
Quite happily alternate between digital and vinyl now.
Bigman80
29-04-2019, 21:05
Took delivery of the Boss 1.2 the weekend and it does indeed sound fantastic.
Quite happily alternate between digital and vinyl now.Well done Wayne!
What's your setup looking like? There's a lot to be had from this rig for under £300!!!!
Bigman80
29-04-2019, 21:08
I agree Oli, it can certainly trick you into forgetting its digital. Having spent quite sometime listening to a fair number of digital systems this one is up there with the best.It is the best I have heard. I mean that literally. It is the best digital playback I have heard anywhere.
Chord Dave included.
I'm really impressed with it.
Under £300 all in!!!!!!
Allo Boss 1.2
Allo Isolator 1.3
Raspberry Pi 3+
Allo case
2x Linear PSUs
2x Cat6a Ethernet cables.
Madness. Its the end of Hi-End.
Just running the boss on its own at the moment Oli.
I sent the isolator back like you advised as it was indeed the first version.
Going to order the v3 version tomorrow.
Would you say it makes a good difference?
Bigman80
29-04-2019, 21:18
Just running the boss on its own at the moment Oli.
I sent the isolator back like you advised as it was indeed the first version.
Going to order the v3 version tomorrow.
Would you say it makes a good difference?It just makes life easier. No Master/slave settings to worry about. I believe optimally you power the DAC via the Isolator on the V1 with a 6v battery pack? According to Allo anyway.
With the V1.3 you power the DAC directly with 5v. No messing about with more PSU or battery packs.
There are no cases available afaik for the stack with the V1 either.
From the website:
"This version V1.3 is specifically developed and improved for the Allo Katana and Allo Boss DACs"
I am happier with specifically developed bits of kit for my kit lol
It just makes life easier. No Master/slave settings to worry about. I believe you power the DAC via the Isolator on the V1. With the V1.3 you power the DAC directly.
There are no cases available afaik for the stack with the V1 either.
From the website:
"This version V1.3 is specifically developed and improved for the Allo Katana and Allo Boss DACs"
I am happier with specifically developed bits of kit lol
Cheers Oli,
I'll keep you posted on impressions once I receive it
Bigman80
29-04-2019, 21:31
Cheers Oli,
I'll keep you posted on impressions once I receive itNo worries,
Let me know when you're ready to unleash it's potential!
Shovel_Knight
29-04-2019, 21:42
At the moment my main system is fully analogue — I have no digital sources whatsoever. When I want to listen to my digital files, I plug my headphones into a cheap DAC/amp combo I use with my Mac mini :eyebrows:
I probably will get a couple of Raspberry Pis, one will get a Boss and the other will get a Kali -- I want to experiment with using the Kali to feed I2S signal to a Chinese PCM1794 board (there are many of them on eBay and some look to be rather well made). I will probably build a couple of Sigma11 power supplies to power the whole thing.
I won't be too surprised if the Boss ends up sounding better though :D
Firebottle
30-04-2019, 06:37
[QUOTE=Bigman80;1083208]There are no cases available afaik for the stack with the V1 either. /QUOTE]
There is a case for the stack, I have supplied one to Steve with his stack.
@Wayne. If you haven't ordered a case i have a spare.
Bigman80
30-04-2019, 06:59
[QUOTE=Bigman80;1083208]There are no cases available afaik for the stack with the V1 either. /QUOTE]
There is a case for the stack, I have supplied one to Steve with his stack.
@Wayne. If you haven't ordered a case i have a spare.Oh! Is it the same one I have for mine?
Firebottle
30-04-2019, 07:25
Not sure, I haven't looked at at your case closely.
Is it smoked perspex with black pillars and turn nuts top and bottom?
Bigman80
30-04-2019, 07:35
Not sure, I haven't looked at at your case closely.
Is it smoked perspex with black pillars and turn nuts top and bottom?Sounds similar? Cool!
Thanks Alan... Yeah I'll take that off you mate.
Gonna set up a direct debit to you 😊😊😊
Sounds similar? Cool!
Oli,
Because of how much your enjoying your digital setup, is it making you reevaluate your spending on records?
Sherwood
30-04-2019, 15:44
I am very pleased with my Allo Digione into a Caiman SEG/Dorado, but I am contemplating buying a new streamer for a second system. On the Pi front, I am considering the latest Allo Boss, but also tempted by the Katana (though I would have to rehouse the boards somehow).
Has anyone on this forum done a direct Boss - Katana comparison and what were the results?
I am very pleased with my Allo Digione into a Caiman SEG/Dorado, but I am contemplating buying a new streamer for a second system. On the Pi front, I am considering the latest Allo Boss, but also tempted by the Katana (though I would have to rehouse the boards somehow).
Has anyone on this forum done a direct Boss - Katana comparison and what were the results?
Boss 1.2 is defo a step up. Just upgraded myself.
Would also be interested in the Kantana comparison.
Sherwood
30-04-2019, 15:54
Boss 1.2 is defo a step up. Just upgraded myself.
Would also be interested in the Kantana comparison.
The Digione is not a DAC so not directly comparable.
Bigman80
30-04-2019, 16:22
Oli,
Because of how much your enjoying your digital setup, is it making you reevaluate your spending on records?Its made me re-evaluate my whole perspective on vinyl
If I didn't have sentiment in 50% of my collection (were my dad's vinyl,) I'd flog the lot.
ive thought about getting rid of my vinyl and tt a few times, but it still does something digital can never do. feed my soul.
its just getting difficult to use now
Hi Oliver
Thanks to Alan i now have my pi.
Having no time at all at the moment I'd really like to thank both Alan (Firebottle) and Oliver (bigman80). For all there help and input.
Real Gents indeed.
Will get the chance to have a listen in the next few days and if it's as good as when i heard Oliver's it might be a case or selling my tt and albums.
What a bummer.
Steve
Its made me re-evaluate my whole perspective on vinyl
If I didn't have sentiment in 50% of my collection (were my dad's vinyl,) I'd flog the lot.
Fair play.
I ordered one of the latest blue note tone poet releases from France. Came yesterday and its a faulty pressing which cost me £30. Its going back but just makes you wonder if its worth the hastle sometimes.
Bigman80
30-04-2019, 16:46
Hi Oliver
Thanks to Alan i now have my pi.
Having no time at all at the moment I'd really like to thank both Alan (Firebottle) and Oliver (bigman80). For all there help and input.
Real Gents indeed.
Will get the chance to have a listen in the next few days and if it's as good as when i heard Oliver's it might be a case or selling my tt and albums.
What a bummer.
SteveYou're more than welcome mate and when you're ready to get the software up and running, well talk that through too.
Bigman80
30-04-2019, 16:53
ive thought about getting rid of my vinyl and tt a few times, but it still does something digital can never do. feed my soul.
its just getting difficult to use nowI've not missed the Vinyl, Grant.
I actually feel free from it like it was a chain around my neck because I was absolutely obsessed with getting the best out of it and spent hours listening, auditioning and comparing every component in the box. I bought everything I could get my hands on and tried everything.
What the Pi/Boss setup has done, is allow me to just get back to listening to the music. Not only that, the performance of it gives any vinyl I've heard anywhere a good taste of its own medicine. Its fluid, soulful and delightfully intricate but it does that foot stomping, face contorting (think guitar solos) connection with with music as well.
I'm enamoured with the Allo Boss and there is a Pecan Pi on the way too. I'll be comparing that and giving it a critical listen for Leo @OrchardAudio. I'd love to put a Katana into the mix too but I just can't spend at the minute.
In the last few weeks, I've amassed a digital library, 10x that of my Vinyl library and it's cost approximately £10. Yes, ethically it's questionable how I attained that library, but I couldn't care less, it's Fantastic that so much new music is available to me.
Imagine the cost of that on Vinyl!!!
Bigman80
30-04-2019, 17:01
Fair play.
I ordered one of the latest blue note tone poet releases from France. Came yesterday and its a faulty pressing which cost me £30. Its going back but just makes you wonder if its worth the hastle sometimes.Its not.
I *was* a die hard vinyl guy. There are so many flaws in the medium, warps, misalignment, vibration, wear and tear, off centre pressings, atmospheric deviation causing the cantilever to stiffen or loosen, to name a few.
Pi Digital has the edge on all of that and more. It's cheaper, easier to obtain and to be perfectly honest, in a good system, it performs better than Vinyl for those reasons alone.
I was spending a fortune and I've equalled (at least) the analogue performance for £300.
Vinyl still has that little bit of *something* I call intimacy, that I wouldn't want to give up just yet but I haven't played any vinyl for two months now. I was playing at least 2 hours a night previously.
It is the end of Hi-End. I'm absolutely convinced.
Its not.
I *was* a die hard vinyl guy. There are so many flaws in the medium, warps, misalignment, vibration, wear and tear, off centre pressings, atmospheric deviation causing the cantilever to stiffen or loosen, to name a few.
Pi Digital has the edge on all of that and more. It's cheaper, easier to obtain and to be perfectly honest, in a good system, it performs better than Vinyl for those reasons alone.
I was spending a fortune and I've equalled (at least) the analogue performance for £300.
Vinyl still has that little bit of *something* I call intimacy, that I wouldn't want to give up just yet but I haven't played any vinyl for two months now. I was playing at least 2 hours a night previously.
It is the end of Hi-End. I'm absolutely convinced.
Any chance of that ethical source link Oli? Could do with creating a digital library now :)
brian2957
30-04-2019, 17:11
I've been using the music server Gary ( gazjam ) built me since 2011 and it still throws up some surprises . I installed two Duronic patch cables , which you guys recommended , this morning and have been rewarded by a very audible improvement in SQ . I've now ordered the 15m I need to complete the feed from my router to the music server . I have a telecoms engineer in the family who will complete the installation for me :)
My turntable has been relegated to the loft and might be there for a while . Other plans for my money at the moment means trying the Pi setup may be a little while in to the future . I've been reading this thread , and all the developments , with interest for a while now though . Hopefully get down to yours for a listen in the near future Oli :)
I'm probably not as obsessed with perfection as you so I've not spent so much time chasing nirvana. But I know why you do, as I've been there.
I didn't enjoy it so much so accept nothing is perfect.
Being poor helped [emoji23]
My vinyl isn't aa1 but it's pretty decent. As is my digital. I can see the day soon when I won't be able to use deck safely, so will have digital already set. I've over 800 albums on digital file. Got another 400 on vinyl which I will transcribe to digital as my phono does this well at 24/96
Shovel_Knight
30-04-2019, 17:19
In the last few weeks, I've amassed a digital library, 10x that of my Vinyl library and it's cost approximately £10. Yes, ethically it's questionable how I attained that library, but I couldn't care less, it's Fantastic that so much new music is available to me.
But do you actually have time to listen to all that music?
I have discovered that even with the whole Spotify library at my disposal, I tend to listen to mostly the same things... I go into the exploration mode once in a while and usually add some new artists to my roster, but I'd say it happens 1-2 times a month at most.
Bigman80
30-04-2019, 17:30
Any chance of that ethical source link Oli? Could do with creating a digital library now :)Come and see me. Bring storage.
Bigman80
30-04-2019, 17:35
But do you actually have time to listen to all that music?
I have discovered that even with the whole Spotify library at my disposal, I tend to listen to mostly the same things... I go into the exploration mode once in a while and usually add some new artists to my roster, but I'd say it happens 1-2 times a month at most.Well,, I'm currently listening to The Scorpions and I'm three albums into some pretty inoffensive 80s like rock.
Yesterday I discovered Mike Bloomfield
And Leo Kottke
I've enjoyed most of what I've heard but obviously there's a few lemons.
But just on to Linda Ronstadt (Whoever that is) and enjoying that too.
Its refreshing and yes, via vinyl I mainly listened to the same stuff. I'm LOVING the new library and I'm in absolutely no rush to get through all of it. I have a time to listen so I will.
BTW, this Linda Ronstadt MO-FI file is magnificently recorded.
Bigman80
30-04-2019, 17:42
I've been using the music server Gary ( gazjam ) built me since 2011 and it still throws up some surprises . I installed two Duronic patch cables , which you guys recommended , this morning and have been rewarded by a very audible improvement in SQ . I've now ordered the 15m I need to complete the feed from my router to the music server . I have a telecoms engineer in the family who will complete the installation for me :)
My turntable has been relegated to the loft and might be there for a while . Other plans for my money at the moment means trying the Pi setup may be a little while in to the future . I've been reading this thread , and all the developments , with interest for a while now though . Hopefully get down to yours for a listen in the near future Oli :)Glad to hear the guys recommendation for Duronic has had the same effect there as it has had here. I think Jimbo offered that link first so full credit to him!
You'll be very welcome here when/if you get down to the West of Middle England.
Bigman80
30-04-2019, 17:44
I'm probably not as obsessed with perfection as you so I've not spent so much time chasing nirvana. But I know why you do, as I've been there.
I didn't enjoy it so much so accept nothing is perfect.
Being poor helped [emoji23]
My vinyl isn't aa1 but it's pretty decent. As is my digital. I can see the day soon when I won't be able to use deck safely, so will have digital already set. I've over 800 albums on digital file. Got another 400 on vinyl which I will transcribe to digital as my phono does this well at 24/96I was totally obsessed lol, but my system, in its totality, is far better for it.
Sure it is, and it's worthwhile when u get the eventual result. It justa hurts all along the rd. Duronic might have been me. I've been using it for a while.
Ps I've a linda ronstadt mofi cd which is very good. Quite a singer
Gonna try this Duronic cable
Gonna try this Duronic cableNo idea why it's better but it just sounds better. Both my laptop a have it as does the rpi
brian2957
30-04-2019, 18:10
I have no-name Cat6 and Cat7 cables plumbed in at the moment and this Duronic Cat6a cable sounds much better than them both . As Grant says , haven't a clue why . Cheap enough to try though :)
Bigman80
30-04-2019, 18:21
Sure it is, and it's worthwhile when u get the eventual result. It justa hurts all along the rd. Duronic might have been me. I've been using it for a while.
Ps I've a linda ronstadt mofi cd which is very good. Quite a singerAh, credit to you then!
No credit. Just a lucky find mate. Jim was asking about cable a while ago and I lin ked him to duronic. Think that's where it came from originally.
Can't explain why it works but it seems to. Just glad I'm not hearing things
Bigman80
30-04-2019, 18:39
No credit. Just a lucky find mate. Jim was asking about cable a while ago and I lin ked him to duronic. Think that's where it came from originally.
Can't explain why it works but it seems to. Just glad I'm not hearing thingsNo you're not imagining mate, it's definitely better than it was before.
mightymonoped
30-04-2019, 20:05
Boss 1.2 is defo a step up. Just upgraded myself.
Would also be interested in the Kantana comparison.
I recently upgraded from an Allo Boss to a Katana & Isolator stack (the Sound Quality version).
The Katana is just PHENOMENAL. It keeps surprising me in a good way with every listening session.
Resolution and instrumental separation abound. It’s pulling controlled bass out of my speakers in a way I didn’t think possible and unravels complex vocal mixes in a natural, engaging and untiring way.
As much as I love the Boss, this thing is just another level altogether.
All my very much subjective opinion of course.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Bigman80
30-04-2019, 20:37
I recently upgraded from an Allo Boss to a Katana & Isolator stack (the Sound Quality version).
The Katana is just PHENOMENAL. It keeps surprising me in a good way with every listening session.
Resolution and instrumental separation abound. It’s pulling controlled bass out of my speakers in a way I didn’t think possible and unravels complex vocal mixes in a natural, engaging and untiring way.
As much as I love the Boss, this thing is just another level altogether.
All my very much subjective opinion of course.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkGreat insight and hopefully one I'll experience first hand soon!
I recently upgraded from an Allo Boss to a Katana & Isolator stack (the Sound Quality version).
The Katana is just PHENOMENAL. It keeps surprising me in a good way with every listening session.
Resolution and instrumental separation abound. It’s pulling controlled bass out of my speakers in a way I didn’t think possible and unravels complex vocal mixes in a natural, engaging and untiring way.
As much as I love the Boss, this thing is just another level altogether.
All my very much subjective opinion of course.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Is the Katana easy enough to setup?
Cheers
mightymonoped
30-04-2019, 21:56
Is the Katana easy enough to setup?
Cheers
I bought the Katana stack, Isolator and case and just rehoused the RPi (with Volumio installed) minus the Boss board.
Took about twenty minutes to put together, power up and just change the DAC choice in the Volumio settings.
Wasn’t complex or tricky at all. Only two jumpers to check and they were already defaulted into the correct position for the two 5v supplies I was using.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I bought the Katana stack, Isolator and case and just rehoused the RPi (with Volumio installed) minus the Boss board.
Took about twenty minutes to put together, power up and just change the DAC choice in the Volumio settings.
Wasn’t complex or tricky at all. Only two jumpers to check and they were already defaulted into the correct position for the two 5v supplies I was using.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk\\
Thanks :)
Hi Oliver,
I *was* a die hard vinyl guy. There are so many flaws in the medium, warps, misalignment, vibration, wear and tear, off centre pressings, atmospheric deviation causing the cantilever to stiffen or loosen, to name a few.
Pi Digital has the edge on all of that and more. It's cheaper, easier to obtain and to be perfectly honest, in a good system, it performs better than Vinyl for those reasons alone.
I was spending a fortune and I've equalled (at least) the analogue performance for £300.
Interesting comments, no doubt backed up by your experiences so far and what you're hearing... However, my experience with streaming is a little different. Yes, the RPi, used with a good DAC, combined with the right (as noise-free as possible) 'infrastructure', gives amazing SPPV (sound-per-pound value), but does it sound as good as the best vinyl pressings (which ultimately is what you must judge things with) do on my T/T?
No, not quite. It gets about 85% of the way there, at (as you say) a mere fraction of the cost, along with again as you say, lots of practical and operational advantages, but if I play a mint audiophile pressing of any kind of music on my Techy, I'm left in no doubt whatsoever as to where that extra 15% has gone....
Also, of the flaws you mention with vinyl, few are unavoidable, especially warps and off-centre pressings. If you're talking about brand new stuff, then send it back as defective! That's what I do. No way would I settle for anything that was sub-standard, when paying top Dollar for new records. And if it's second-hand vinyl, inspect it properly and don't buy it in the first place!:eyebrows:
Seriously though, I know what you mean, and you make some good points, but for me any serious hi-fi enthusiast and music lover, worthy of the name, will own a quality turntable (and a substantial record collection to play it on), together with a quality CDP/DAC and streamer, and possibly also some form of tape machine [even a tuner], simply to allow themselves access to music on all formats, some of which just isn't available on others.
Essentially, you don't restrict yourself to having only one 'tool' to carry out the task that's necessary...! And if you look around the forums, you'll soon spot the 'serious guys' who qualify as such;)
Marco.
Hi Oliver,
Interesting comments, no doubt backed up by your experiences so far and what you're hearing... However, my experience with streaming is a little different. Yes, the RPi, used with a good DAC, combined with the right (as noise-free as possible) 'infrastructure', gives amazing SPPV (sound-per-pound value), but does it sound as good as the best vinyl pressings (which ultimately is what you must judge things with) do on my T/T?
No, not quite. It gets about 85% of the way there, at (as you say) a mere fraction of the cost, along with again as you say, lots of practical and operational advantages, but if I play a mint audiophile pressing of any kind of music on my Techy, I'm left in no doubt whatsoever as to where that extra 15% has gone....
Also, of the flaws you mention with vinyl, few are unavoidable, especially warps and off-centre pressings. If you're talking about brand new stuff, then send it back as defective! That's what I do. No way would I settle for anything that was sub-standard, when paying top Dollar for new records. And if it's second-hand vinyl, inspect it properly and don't buy it in the first place!:eyebrows:
Seriously though, I know what you mean, and you make some good points, but for me any serious hi-fi enthusiast and music lover, worthy of the name, will own a quality turntable (and a substantial record collection to play it on), together with a quality CDP/DAC and streamer, and possibly also some form of tape machine [even a tuner], simply to allow themselves access to music on all formats, some of which just isn't available on others.
Essentially, you don't restrict yourself to having only one 'tool' to carry out the task that's necessary...! And if you look around the forums, you'll soon spot the 'serious guys' who qualify as such;)
Marco.
Interesting reading your comments Marco as you were one of the first serious Pi advocates way back a few years ago and on a number of occasions during that period your spoke about the excellent results that could be had from this little computer. I believe you even compared it enthusiastically too your vinyl set up and indeed found *on some recordings* you could equal or even better your vinyl performance? This was probably all dependent on the mastering of both mediums.
I have been evaluating the exact same Pi set up Oliver has been using and found it to be a wonderful and very cost effective route to great digital performance but I have been a little cautious as I have been here before many many years ago with CD and as a consequence my enthusiasm for the new technology resulted in me abandoning vinyl, like many on this forum have done, and selling all my analogue equipment and vinyl!:eek: I then spent a long time in the digital wilderness before returning to vinyl 5 years ago.
Digital can always sound immediately exciting and its technical benefits are easily apparent and this time round with streaming audio and FBA things have definitely moved on especially as the technology has been improved and many of the digital nasties have been slane. We now understand what is needed to get the best from those digital recordings with judicious care taken of clock timing and power supplies in both the digital and analogue parts of the DAC.
I agree digital audio can now sound good, I have it laid bare for me to hear for myself in my own system. I hear all it can do as indeed I can hear by contrast as Oliver mentioned all the anamolies and imperfections of vinyl.
However having listened to many digital audio set ups and arriving with something acceptable in my own system I am with you on its abilities in that it probably gets you only 85% of the way in sound satisfaction compared to the best vinyl performance. Yes I have swung one way and the other and have indeed thought on *some * occasions digital sounded better but this was usually as a result of an acceptional recording or well mastered piece of music.
If I had to choose to own only one system it would still be vinyl but that is not to say all other systems are useful and nice to have as a route to gaining more musical experience!:)
But do you actually have time to listen to all that music?
I have discovered that even with the whole Spotify library at my disposal, I tend to listen to mostly the same things... I go into the exploration mode once in a while and usually add some new artists to my roster, but I'd say it happens 1-2 times a month at most.
Very good point Pavel. All converts to digital at some time usually brag about the size of their digital library but I compare it to modern TV. Yes you may have 800 channels but most of it is Sh1t!
I don't want to own the whole worlds music library. I have a very carefully selected choice of music which I enjoy and am happy to play it over and over again as I get some much pleasure from it.
I don't want to be just amassing a vast collection of music some of which I probably don't even know I have got and then jump around endlessly jabbing at a phone or iPad trying to find stuff to listen too and spending more time looking for it and collecting it rather than listening to it.
No credit. Just a lucky find mate. Jim was asking about cable a while ago and I lin ked him to duronic. Think that's where it came from originally.
Can't explain why it works but it seems to. Just glad I'm not hearing things
I only bought it because it conformed to Cat6a standard and was cheap!:)
Firebottle
01-05-2019, 05:59
Yes, the RPi, used with a good DAC,
Marco.
The Dacs available to use directly with the Pi have moved on considerably since you set yours up Marco, you would be pleasantly surprised.
I am also using the same setup as Oli and Jimbo and can confirm it spanks most other stuff.
Bigman80
01-05-2019, 07:28
Hi Oliver,
Interesting comments, no doubt backed up by your experiences so far and what you're hearing... However, my experience with streaming is a little different. Yes, the RPi, used with a good DAC, combined with the right (as noise-free as possible) 'infrastructure', gives amazing SPPV (sound-per-pound value), but does it sound as good as the best vinyl pressings (which ultimately is what you must judge things with) do on my T/T? No, not quite. It gets about 85% of the way there, at (as you say) a mere fraction of the cost, along with again as you say, lots of practical and operational advantages, but if I play a mint audiophile pressing of any kind of music on my Techy, I'm left in no doubt whatsoever as to where that extra 15% has gone....
Also, of the flaws you mention with vinyl, few are unavoidable, especially warps and off-centre pressings. If you're talking about brand new stuff, then send it back as defective! That's what I do. No way would I settle for anything that was sub-standard, when paying top Dollar for new records. And if it's second-hand vinyl, inspect it properly and don't buy it in the first place!:eyebrows:
Seriously though, I know what you mean, and you make some good points, but for me any serious hi-fi enthusiast and music lover, worthy of the name, will own a quality turntable (and a substantial record collection to play it on), together with a quality CDP/DAC and streamer, and possibly also some form of tape machine [even a tuner], simply to allow themselves access to music on all formats, some of which just isn't available on others.
Essentially, you don't restrict yourself to having only one 'tool' to carry out the task that's necessary...! And if you look around the forums, you'll soon spot the 'serious guys' who qualify as such;)
Marco.
I don't realistically intend to forego the joys of Vinyl due to my new found Pi lust, but I a have no doubt that as soon as I stick a Katana in the mix, its going to further my opinion on this Pi/Allo combination.
Vinyl is a romance to many, myself included but I cannot and will not deny its ability to absolutely compete with Vinyl and surpass it in many ways. I will have the Pecan Pi here in a few days so this will be the first real "cost upgrade" I will try and if the results are as expected, I'll be a customer
Interesting the idea that vinyl should be the benchmark to which digital has to rise. In the studio they record on digital equipment and play back on digital equipment. No turntables involved. But then you transfer the recording onto vinyl with its lower dynamics, higher noise, higher distortion, crosstalk etc etc and that somehow now becomes the benchmark that the digital master has to rise up to?
How does that work then?
Interesting the idea that vinyl should be the benchmark to which digital has to rise. In the studio they record on digital equipment and play back on digital equipment. No turntables involved. But then you transfer the recording onto vinyl with its lower dynamics, higher noise, higher distortion, crosstalk etc etc and that somehow now becomes the benchmark that the digital master has to rise up to?
How does that wok then?
Stir fry?
I guess its what your brain says it likes rather than what the stats says; that is if you listen to your brain. But of course everyone is looking for different things from presentation, so its all cool
Bigman80
01-05-2019, 07:51
Interesting the idea that vinyl should be the benchmark to which digital has to rise. In the studio they record on digital equipment and play back on digital equipment. No turntables involved. But then you transfer the recording onto vinyl with its lower dynamics, higher noise, higher distortion, crosstalk etc etc and that somehow now becomes the benchmark that the digital master has to rise up to?
How does that wok then?Well, I'm not sure about the dynamics part but yes, I did question the Ultimate terms in which Vinyl was regarded in Marcos post. Are the finest pressings on par with the best HiRes files in terms of information collected? I dont know but I suspect not
Its a flawed medium for many reasons but again, such wonderful results can be garnered from it.
In a realistic world, the "Ultimate Media" should be as free from imperfections as possible. Bit perfect digital replay MUST therefore be regarded as one such method. That's disregarding the method of which playback is obtained of course, which can create problems on their own.
As for CD players In to DACs, well that's another area of contention.
The Dacs available to use directly with the Pi have moved on considerably since you set yours up Marco, you would be pleasantly surprised.
I am also using the same setup as Oli and Jimbo and can confirm it spanks most other stuff.
Hi Alan,
Sure, however I've used the RPi with a variety of different DACs, and also heard it with such in the systems of friends, which I know almost as well as mine, and it never fails to impress. As you know, with a streaming set up, the DAC is king, as that's essentially what you're listening to, thus its inherent sonic qualities are critical.
However, whilst better DACs will always improve the quality of the results you get with the RPi, ultimately it's still digital, with the inherent limitations of digital music reproduction, and of course vinyl has its own issues, some of which Ollie had outlined, but when I compare the best sounding vinyl pressings I have, played on my T/T, against the finest sounding digital files [24-bit and others], reproduced on the RPi, with any DAC I've heard so far, the former to my ears still sounds superior - and simply musically more believable and real.
I think some, or if not most, of that is down to accurately reproducing, on vinyl, the best all-analogue recordings, from the late 50s to early 60s, when everything in the recording chain from start to finish was analogue [with valve mics and mixing desks, etc], and some of the jazz and classical recordings (even Elvis!) I have from that era, sound utterly stunning and LIFELIKE in a way that I've yet to hear from *any* digital set-up, streaming or otherwise.
Indeed, it's interesting comparing some of those very same recordings, now available in a digital format, which I have available to stream on my hard-drives, against the original vinyl versions.
Yes, the streamed versions sound superb, and I can clearly hear the analogue qualities (and what that brings to the sound) produced in the first stages of the recording process, but something is always lost in the final part of that process, when ultimately the recording is being reproduced digitally. In old-school parlance, it's effectively 'AAD' vs. (theoretically) 'AAA', if one remembers how early CDs were marked, in order to define how sections of the recording were derived, in either the analogue or digital domain.
Now, I don't know about you, but I invariably preferred my 'AAD' CDs, to any of the (at the time) often highly lauded 'DDD" versions, as they always had a more 'natural' sound.. And *that* difference is essentially what I always hear, and clearly revealed, in the best set-ups, where both high-quality digital and analogue sources exist, and which is why no matter what DAC is used with the RPi, or indeed any other streamer, it will always be governed by the limitations of digital recordings.
Perhaps, as technology moves ever forward, in both the recording and playback chain, that gap will close, but at the moment, to my ears it hasn't, and that's why for 'serious listening', I'll always return to vinyl. Indeed I'm sure that many reel-to-reel aficionados would say the exact same with tape. Now, when that's done well, and reproducing the finest studio master recordings, *that* is where it's *really* at, if you want top-notch sound!
Jim (and Ollie), I'll get to your posts after breakfast, as right now I need my caffeine hit!:cool:
Marco.
I guess its what your brain says it likes rather than what the stats says; that is if you listen to your brain. But of course everyone is looking for different things from presentation, so its all cool
This is true but it's the proposition that vinyl is the benchmark that I have trouble with. You're taking what they made in the studio, putting it through a process that degrades it, no matter that it might be benign degradation, then saying that the original has to live up to that.
This is true but it's the proposition that vinyl is the benchmark that I have trouble with. You're taking what they made in the studio, putting it through a process that degrades it, no matter that it might be benign degradation, then saying that the original has to live up to that.
certainly not the benchmark, on paper, but probably is to the brain. its the sound most would say fires the endorphins of pleasure. Digital replay(and in the end its replay we are concerned with here) has come a long way, and the sterility that its critics clubbed it with has mostly gone now, so, yes its appoaching vinyl endorphin wise i'd say. 90% of my listening is digital. but i still get that first cigarette feel when i stick a good record on.
Bigman80
01-05-2019, 08:08
Very good point Pavel. All converts to digital at some time usually brag about the size of their digital library but I compare it to modern TV. Yes you may have 800 channels but most of it is Sh1t!
I don't want to own the whole worlds music library. I have a very carefully selected choice of music which I enjoy and am happy to play it over and over again as I get some much pleasure from it.
I don't want to be just amassing a vast collection of music some of which I probably don't even know I have got and then jump around endlessly jabbing at a phone or iPad trying to find stuff to listen too and spending more time looking for it and collecting it rather than listening to it.A good point but my intention wasn't to brag, it was to highlight that it may have taken 10 years to accumulate 600 pieces of vinyl but in only a couple a week's, I have accumulated a large library.
I also agree that I don't want a global collection and as such delete anything that doesn't work for me. The idea being that i get to hear loads of new music and can keep or delete without feeling like I've wasted my money, as the library was free to me.
This is true but it's the proposition that vinyl is the benchmark that I have trouble with. You're taking what they made in the studio, putting it through a process that degrades it, no matter that it might be benign degradation, then saying that the original has to live up to that.
That's only significant if the recording is digital to begin with, in which case I would agree, as it's impossible to disagree. In that scenario, reproducing a digital recording on vinyl can only result in sonic degradation, which is why to hear vinyl properly, it must be from an all-analogue source, and which is why such invariably sounds better than so much vinyl today, produced from a digital source.
I don't buy that stuff, as it's pointless, unless I can't obtain the music any other way!
My point is essentially that in order to hear all-analogue recordings at their best, they *must* be reproduced by an analogue source, and subsequent associated playback equipment, thus keeping it analogue throughout the chain, otherwise something intrinsic to the original sound is lost, and which is why in that scenario, vinyl, or indeed (R2R) tape, is the benchmark.
Marco.
Regardless of source or recording technique/method, I cannot see how a medium which has such obvious measurable and well established technical compromises can be regarded as a reference.
Yes, but as we all know Dennis, it's not all about 'best measurements', otherwise none of us would be using valves, vintage loudspeakers, or vinyl...;)
I've heard plenty of systems built around 'best measurements', and most have left me cold, and certainly weren't among the best sounding or most enjoyable I've heard. There's much more to it than that, not least of which is ensuring that the right measurements are being applied correctly, when forming your opinions.
However, in my experience, as simply an end user, not a designer, getting overly hung up on measurements is more a road to musical dissatisfaction, than the opposite. Good ears and judgement is ultimately what matters most.
Marco.
(Baulks at the minefield he is about to enter).
I agree, but they are often an indicator of a reliable way of dismissing equipment; some measures very badly, and usually these sound dreadful.
It is hard to remain objective in the torrent of types, opinions and views, and I accept that many 'objectivists', actually hide behind figures, using them as an indomitable shield, in their own minds at least.
We can be upset at a new improved SQ as well, as has just happened to me, thinking the new sound is actually seriously flawed, and much long term work on one's own personal psychology has to be undertaken to work out whether the SQ is better or not. This results in an inner internal correction and 'recalibration' as required.
I am now fairly sure that a divide which I have had for a long time, is I hope, being resolved. from the 80s onwards I bonded with polyprop cones, having previously been exposed to them with the Beeb, and subsequently forming the view that paper cones were coloured with harmonic distortion.
Those against this view were saying that the poly was slow and masking upper detail, and that paper was revealing those harmonics because it was a lighter material able to respond to them.
I then went through four sets of ATCs, with paper cones, not particularly disliking the bass, but changed to the ESSs because largely of the Heil, and implicitly these had poly bass cones, which I eventually changed for Rogers mid woofers, still poly.
I think, though I am not sure, that poly does mask detail, and present a smooth sound, but is a little slow, and with details of bass guitar missing.
The drivers used in the ESSs, were not producing an accurate speaker, the Rogers was better, but what I hear now on my latest acquisition, is an absence of certain colorations, and a revealing of more detail. (I think).
This implicitly means I have to upgrade my 'personal software' - a re-calibration, if my conclusions are right.
That's only significant if the recording is digital to begin with, in which case I would agree, as it's impossible to disagree. In that scenario, reproducing a digital recording on vinyl can only result in sonic degradation, which is why to hear vinyl properly, it must be from an all-analogue source, and which is why such invariably sounds better than so much vinyl today, produced from a digital source.
I don't buy that stuff, as it's pointless, unless I can't obtain the music any other way!
My point is essentially that in order to hear all-analogue recordings at their best, they *must* be reproduced by an analogue source, and subsequent associated playback equipment, thus keeping it analogue throughout the chain, otherwise something intrinsic to the original sound is lost, and which is why in that scenario, vinyl, or indeed (R2R) tape, is the benchmark.
Marco.
But with an analogue recording the open-reel master is the benchmark; again by transferring that to a vinyl record you are degrading it. Granted not to any degree where it is worth worrying about but from a purist's point of view (mine) it seems to me that vinyl cannot be the benchmark for either analogue or digital recordings.
What seems to be the thrust of this thread is people whose preferred source is/was analogue discovering that digital can sound 'as good' from a subjective point of view, but this subjective preference is being confused with an objective standard of fidelity to the original recording, as though digital is the poor relation in that respect and has had to catch up.
Or maybe it is just me reading that into it?
Hi Jim,
Interesting reading your comments Marco as you were one of the first serious Pi advocates way back a few years ago and on a number of occasions during that period your spoke about the excellent results that could be had from this little computer. I believe you even compared it enthusiastically too your vinyl set up and indeed found *on some recordings* you could equal or even better your vinyl performance? This was probably all dependent on the mastering of both mediums.
Yes, and of course the last bit is crucial. It wasn't so much about equalling or bettering my vinyl performance, but getting digital music reproduction to the stage where it lost its hard edge, or 'glare' [as I've often referred to it, and I believe is present to some degree in ALL digital equipment], which is the case with streaming, when done well, thus in that respect bringing it closer to the sound of vinyl.
Digital can always sound immediately exciting and its technical benefits are easily apparent and this time round with streaming audio and FBA things have definitely moved on especially as the technology has been improved and many of the digital nasties have been slane. We now understand what is needed to get the best from those digital recordings with judicious care taken of clock timing and power supplies in both the digital and analogue parts of the DAC.
Indeed, and that last bit is crucial in order to hear digital audio at its best. Noise is essentially what limits the potential of digital (analogue is intrinsically quieter, in terms of not generating the type of noise that can make music sound 'hard' or in yer face), therefore minimising it, where possible, is paramount.
However having listened to many digital audio set ups and arriving with something acceptable in my own system I am with you on its abilities in that it probably gets you only 85% of the way in sound satisfaction compared to the best vinyl performance. Yes I have swung one way and the other and have indeed thought on *some * occasions digital sounded better but this was usually as a result of an acceptional recording or well mastered piece of music.
If I had to choose to own only one system it would still be vinyl but that is not to say all other systems are useful and nice to have as a route to gaining more musical experience!:)
As I said, for me it's not *all* about what sounds best, but also having access to as much of the music I want to hear as possible, and that goal simply isn't best served by having only one way of playing it... That's why I *need* to be able to stream music, as well as play vinyl.
Digital can indeed often sound better than vinyl, and vice versa, which as you say is mainly to do with the respective qualities of the recordings used. However, as I said, given a level playing field in that respect, then to my ears vinyl still trumps digital, whether music is streamed or accessed via CD.
Marco.
I don't realistically intend to forego the joys of Vinyl due to my new found Pi lust, but I a have no doubt that as soon as I stick a Katana in the mix, its going to further my opinion on this Pi/Allo combination.
Vinyl is a romance to many, myself included but I cannot and will not deny its ability to absolutely compete with Vinyl and surpass it in many ways. I will have the Pecan Pi here in a few days so this will be the first real "cost upgrade" I will try and if the results are as expected, I'll be a customer
Can't dispute any of that, and good luck with your current upgrades and discoveries:)
Digital, done well, undoubtedly *will* surpass vinyl in some areas, but in your excitement to hear new things and experiences with digital music streaming, don't lose sight of what vinyl does well, because I guarantee that when the 'honeymoon period' wears off, and you stick your first record on, after an extended analogue hiatus, you'll instantly hear what it was that attracted you to vinyl in the first place [somewhat like reacquainting oneself with an old friend], and what you've been missing, musically, which NO digital source can replicate!;)
Marco.
But with an analogue recording the open-reel master is the benchmark; again by transferring that to a vinyl record you are degrading it. Granted not to any degree where it is worth worrying about but from a purist's point of view (mine) it seems to me that vinyl cannot be the benchmark for either analogue or digital recordings.
Absolutely, but vinyl is still more of a benchmark than digital, in that respect, when playing all-analogue recordings, and so when reproducing the latter, if done properly, it's always going to sound better playing an all-analogue produced piece of vinyl on a quality turntable, than a disc of the same recording on a CD player, simply because the final stage in the digitisation process robs the music of some of its intrinsic analogue sound.
This sort of stuff becomes immediately apparent when you play around with ripping vinyl to CD, or to hard-drives, as Grant has done recently. The rips can sound great, but never quite as good as the original vinyl itself!
What seems to be the thrust of this thread is people whose preferred source is/was analogue discovering that digital can sound 'as good' from a subjective point of view, but this subjective preference is being confused with an objective standard of fidelity to the original recording, as though digital is the poor relation in that respect and has had to catch up.
Or maybe it is just me reading that into it?
Well I can't speak for others, but that's certainly not my view, which if you read my posts on the matter properly, should be obvious:)
Marco.
I agree, but they are often an indicator of a reliable way of dismissing equipment; some measures very badly, and usually these sound dreadful.
Well, personally I'd never dismiss any equipment out of hand until I'd first heard it on a familiar system, as measurements can often be misleading, although I do agree that if something measures truly woefully, then it'll almost certainly sound like it.
In some situations, I'd certainly use measurements as a guide for ascertaining how something *may* sound, but no more. The proof of the pudding is always in the listening.
As I've said, I've heard plenty of anodyne sounding systems, near bereft of musical merit, which were claimed to measure impeccably, and be 'transparent', but to my ears were anything but! So what does that say about how reliable measurements sometimes are in the real world?;)
At the end of the day, ALL that matters is what sounds best to your ears, in your room, and with your music.
Marco.
At the end of the day, ALL that matters is what sounds best to your ears, in your room, and with your music.
That's true, in fact it is pretty much a truism but it does tend to kill the discussion.
As someone who wants to get as close to the studio recording as possible I will still pick a digital copy of the digital master or a digital copy of the analogue master ahead of a vinyl version of either which is really adding too much of its own sound. Whether that gives the 'best sounding' replay is irrelevant to me and in any case 'best sounding' is entirely subjective and down to the individual's preference whereas 'most accurate' is not.
As someone who wants to get as close to the studio recording as possible I will still pick a digital copy of the digital master or a digital copy of the analogue master ahead of a vinyl version of either...
That's your choice, but how can a digital copy of the analogue master ever be faithful to it? Quite simply it can't, as you're introducing digital processes that rob the sound of some of its analogue qualities, as indeed I've already mentioned. And the effect is easily heard when you experiment in that area, which I don't believe you have done, in terms of ripping vinyl to CD?
...which is really adding too much of its own sound.
Yes, but so does the process of digitizing an analogue music signal. That also adds its own sound (intrinsic coloration). The process isn't transparent; it imparts an indelible 'digital signature' - one that is audible. The fact is Martin, there is no 'free lunch' here, so as ever it's simply of a case of choosing your compromises, and in that respect, I know which I'd rather have!;)
Marco.
Ah well - I'm of the opinion that the digital copy is identical, that nothing is lost or added, so that's where we differ.
Fair enough. I know differently because I've heard what happens when ripping vinyl to a digital format, and sonically, what's lost in the process. If it was truly transparent, I'd have flogged all my vinyl years ago (save some of sentimental value) and made a fortune!;)
Marco.
Fair enough. I know differently because I've heard what happens when ripping vinyl to a digital format, and sonically, what's subtly lost in the process. If it was truly transparent, I'd have flogged all my vinyl years ago (save some of sentimental value) and made a fortune!;)
Marco.
something ive been playing with of late is ripping vinyl. It takes patience to get right, but also some records dont work as well as others; might be the frequencies involved I dont know...Bass can be an issue I find, but 24/96 is the way to go. Getting the levels right is another, plus you have to filter in the adc involved and the noise chain(not to mention the tt)
but as good as you can get it, its not quite as good as the original vinyl
Exactly my experience, and as you've said, experimenting (understanding the settings to adjust and input levels properly), and having the patience to do that is the key:)
Ultimately though, you're governed by the limitations of the 'sound card', or whatever device/circuitry is being used to digitize the analogue signal, which no matter how good, can never perform the task 100% accurately. Nothing is ever as good as the original (of anything), so a copy of such, no matter how well done, will to an extent always be diluted.
Are you using Audacity? I found that a great tool/piece of software when I was ripping vinyl to CD, but things may have moved on since then.
Marco.
Exactly my experience, and as you've said, experimenting (understanding the settings to adjust and control properly), and having the patience to do that is the key:)
Ultimately, you're governed by the limitations of the 'sound card', or whatever device is being used to digitize the analogue signal, which no matter how good, can never perform the task 100% accurately. Quite simply, nothing is ever as good as the original (of anything), so a copy of such, no matter how well done, will to an extent always be a diluted version of the original.
Are you using Audacity? I found that a great tool/piece of software when I was ripping vinyl to CD, but things may have moved on since then.
Marco.
Vinyl Studio Pro. its very good and well laid out. makes it much easier and as all the work you do is non distructive its easy to change it later if not happy. you might find it better that Audacity to use. The soundcard is in the Phono stage, and is pretty good.
A screenshot as I'm doi g one at moment
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190501/bb7eb57981d796d5468278fef8fe5865.jpg
Bigman80
01-05-2019, 15:14
Giving the Vinyl a run out and I have to say, it's better than I think it is. I don't know why but it's like getting out of jeans and putting some comfy shorts on.
I think putting my own phonostage in had meant me listening in an over critical manner. The time away has allowed me to forget all about it and just play some music. Sitting here now, just listening to the music, and it's great lol.
Thoroughly enjoying the Vinyl. Two sources, who'd have thought it was possible!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190501/56e08c34cc5ded5332ec14c7a04f3dc7.jpg
Giving the Vinyl a run out and I have to say, it's better than I think it is. I don't know why but it's like getting out of jeans and putting some comfy shorts on.
I think putting my own phonostage in had meant me listening in an over critical manner. The time away has allowed me to forget all about it and just play some music. Sitting here now, just listening to the music, and it's great lol.
Thoroughly enjoying the Vinyl. Two sources, who'd have thought it was possible!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190501/56e08c34cc5ded5332ec14c7a04f3dc7.jpg
:thumbsup::thumbsup:
Nice one, mate! Well, what did I say?:)
Switching off your 'analytical head', after recently carrying out critical comparisons, and simply relaxing with some music, is crucial not only in terms of chilling out and enjoying yourself, but also getting your head properly around what's happening, and separating real differences from those that are likely to have been imagined...;)
This hobby of ours can be a trifle too geeky and intense sometimes, to the extent that we can take our eyes off the ball, in terms of what really matters: the MUSIC. Your SP10's looking good, btw!
Marco.
Bigman80
01-05-2019, 16:08
Nice one, mate! Well, what did I say?:)
Switching off your 'analytical head', after recently carrying out critical comparisons, and simply relaxing with some music, is crucial not only in terms of chilling out and enjoying yourself, but also getting your head properly around what's happening, and separating real differences from those that are likely to have been imagined...;)
This hobby of ours can be a trifle too geeky and intense sometimes. Your SP10's looking good, btw!
Marco.Definitely have been hyper critical on the Vinyl and forgetting that the phonostage is still new with little to no burn in.
The pi does everything I've said it does and I definitely stick with my opinion on it.
Vinyl may not be as dead on its feet as I thought but it's definitely bon the ropes. As soon as the pi and DAC hat capabilities get better known, I think it's going to be hard for any real audiophile to ignore.
Yes, the SP10 is still the jewel in the crown and it'll be even better once I get my thicker Panzerholtz plinth on it (32mm [emoji3][emoji3])
More to be heard I think but this pi is some serious kit for beer money.
Firebottle
01-05-2019, 16:16
Yeaaaaahhhh.
The vinyl re-awakens :mex:
Every time I put Nublano on and demonstrate it to folk they want a copy, such is the magic of the vinyl copy of a hi-res recording :D
Bigman80
01-05-2019, 16:33
Yeaaaaahhhh.
The vinyl re-awakens :mex:
Every time I put Nublano on and demonstrate it to folk they want a copy, such is the magic of the vinyl copy of a hi-res recording :DLol, I'm secretly pleased [emoji23]
The Pi is a wonderful thing, I'm pleased with that too.
Many Years ago - 80s and 90s, there was much discussion in Hi-Fi News about recordings done on a Sony digital machine, and the mad praised that technology saying that it was itself inaudible.
Yeaaaaahhhh.
The vinyl re-awakens :mex:
Every time I put Nublano on and demonstrate it to folk they want a copy, such is the magic of the vinyl copy of a hi-res recording :DNublano? What's that then?
The recordings I've been making to play on pi are24/96 from the tt. Only thing or issue is a slight perceptible hum on headphones.
Think I'm gonna have to get the mafia round and strip all the cables and start again.
Some of the stuff down there isn't even connected. [emoji23]
Maybe get my regen back too
Definitely have been hyper critical on the Vinyl and forgetting that the phonostage is still new with little to no burn in.
The pi does everything I've said it does and I definitely stick with my opinion on it.
Vinyl may not be as dead on its feet as I thought but it's definitely bon the ropes. As soon as the pi and DAC hat capabilities get better known, I think it's going to be hard for any real audiophile to ignore.
Yes, the SP10 is still the jewel in the crown and it'll be even better once I get my thicker Panzerholtz plinth on it (32mm [emoji3][emoji3])
More to be heard I think but this pi is some serious kit for beer money.
Tell me about it, mate. I was one of the first to introduce it to AoS, as one of our stock 'SPPV' product reccos. Set up properly, with a decent DAC, you don't need anything else for file-based audio.
Try not to think along the lines of anything 'winning' between the RPi and your SP10, but rather in finding another source, aside from you T/T, which delivers the same standards (or more) of musical pleasure. In that sense, I can happily listen to music either via my RPi, CDP or T/T - it doesn't really matter, as they all tick that very important box:)
Marco.
Many Years ago - 80s and 90s, there was much discussion in Hi-Fi News about recordings done on a Sony digital machine, and the mad praised that technology saying that it was itself inaudible.
Sorry, Dennis, that last bit makes no sense, even after re-reading it several times. Could you clarify your point please?:)
Marco.
Bigman80
01-05-2019, 17:59
Tell me about it, mate. I was one of the first to introduce it to AoS, as one of our stock 'SPPV' product reccos. Set up properly, with a decent DAC, you don't need anything else for file-based audio.
Try not to think along the lines of anything 'winning' between the RPi and your SP10, but rather in finding another source, aside from you T/T, which delivers the same standards (or more) of musical pleasure. In that sense, I can happily listen to music either via my RPi, CDP or T/T - it doesn't really matter, as they all tick that very important box:)
Marco.You should stick an Allo boss and isolator on your Pi. I think you'd be shocked.
It may give your Sony a run for its money [emoji6]
Don't doubt it mate, as Andre knows his stuff. If I get into tweaking mode again, I'll defo give it a go:)
Marco.
Sorry, I don't know what happened there, should be "they praised".
It has been an interesting exercise implementing and assessing the Raspberry Pi 3+ Boss 1.2 + Isolator 1.3 as a digital renderer in my system. I have used, listened too and evaluated many other DACs either in my system or heard them in others but this combination of the Pi3 + Boss 1.2 has been the best and most convincing digital equipment I have heard to date.
Using Audirvana and Audirvana+ as the file server and controller on my iPad /iphone makes this £350 system the bargain of the digital audio world. Its sheer musicality, analogue sound quality and handling of soundstage and detail is remarkable. Where the Pi3 + Boss 1.2 really scores is in the bottom end where it does a great job of providing ample controlled bass and weight to the music. This is often lacking in digital audio where some DACs can sound a bit thin and just chase detail.
The Pi3 + Boss 1.2 does not go down the absolute detail avenue, rather it pursues a more nuanced and subtle route accenting more on the whole overall sonic picture from top to bottom. This ability gives it a very smooth presentation and hence an analogue type sound quality. It is non fatiguing but highly revealing of source material. Don't give it crap ripped material or poorly mastered material as it will just throw it back in your face. Give it some great mastered digital bit perfect music and it will sound absolutely stunning.
I think Oliver will come along sometime when he is not too busy making cables:) and put together a complete A-Z guide of set up we have used and how to implement it. Digital gurus will find it easy but for those of us not adept at configuring different software applications and building a digital system it does require some explanation. This is definitely not a 1 box plug and play but it is straight forward, like anything when you know how.
Just an idea of what is needed.
Software set up and implementation of a Music Server.
Ripping software for bit perfect CD rips and implementation with server software.
Volumio or software of your choice for running the RPi3 - this also has to integrate with Music server.
Build of Pi3 + Boss 1.2 + Isolator + Case ( This can be bought already built)
Set up of 2 X LPSU with correct USB cables.
Ethernet Cat 6a cables for Pi3 to router and from computer to Router.
We are talking computer digital audio here so it is by its nature slightly complex but the results are worth it. The chaps at ALLO and all those other very helpful digital audio gurus on the internet have worked out what is needed to get amazing results from the Pi. One chap who has been most helpful and a guiding light in this digital complexity has been Hans Beekheysan. His knowledge and plain speaking videos have been extremely helpful. I would urge anyone who either has a digital system or none at all to give this combination a go.
Sorry, I don't know what happened there, should be "they praised".
Ok, but just to clarify, what exactly did they claim was "inaudible"?
Marco.
Great review, Jim. It makes the process seem very appealing indeed, and should tempt all but the most intransigent neanderthals, lol, to dip their toes into the world of computer audio;)
TBH, you should post that review in the Strokes of Genius area and add a few pics, describing which bits do what, and I'd gladly sticky it, to act as a valuable reference for our members:)
Marco.
Great review, Jim. It makes the process seem very appealing indeed, and should tempt all but the most intransigent neanderthals, lol, to dip their toes into the world of computer audio;)
TBH, you should post that review in the Strokes of Genius area and add a few pics, describing which bits do what, and I'd gladly sticky it, to act as a valuable reference for our members:)
Marco.
Cheers Marco. Either Oliver or myself will sort this and post up in Strokes of Genius. I think there maybe 4-5 AOS folk now using this configuration so it is gaining interest and approval. :cool:
Bigman80
02-05-2019, 07:46
Yes, when I get a minute away from the soldering iron ([emoji38]) I will do a step by step guide with links etc
It really is very straight forward once you get going.
Nice one, guys. That would be really useful:thumbsup:
High-SPPV stuff like this deserves to be praised from the rooftops! AoS: fighting the war against overpriced [and often underperforming] badge-fi.......
Marco.
Why does the version 1.3 of the isolator only seem to appear on the Audiphonics
site and not on the manufacturer’s (Allo)?
R.
Why does the version 1.3 of the isolator only seem to appear on the Audiphonics
site and not on the manufacturer’s (Allo)?
R.
Don't think they have updated their site.
mightymonoped
02-05-2019, 11:46
Why does the version 1.3 of the isolator only seem to appear on the Audiphonics
site and not on the manufacturer’s (Allo)?
R.
Looks like 1.2 and 1.3 are the same to me! If you look at the images on Allo and other sites, they are marked as HW Rev. 1.3
Bourneendboy
02-05-2019, 15:53
I'm currently using an Ifi Ipower with the jumper in place, what benefits has adding another and removing the jumper bring?
Bigman80
02-05-2019, 16:12
I'm currently using an Ifi Ipower with the jumper in place, what benefits has adding another and removing the jumper bring?Hi Bill,
Are you asking what benefits a second LPSU has brought to the party with the Boss?
Bourneendboy
02-05-2019, 16:19
Hi Bill,
Are you asking what benefits a second LPSU has brought to the party with the Boss?
Yes, sorry my post wasn't very clear.
Yatsushiro
02-05-2019, 17:20
Looks like 1.2 and 1.3 are the same to me! If you look at the images on Allo and other sites, they are marked as HW Rev. 1.3
Indeed. The currently available Isolator is V1.2, using boards with hardware Revision 1.3. So Audiophonics and Allo are selling/listing the same item.
Bigman80
02-05-2019, 18:34
Indeed. The currently available Isolator is V1.2, using boards with hardware Revision 1.3. So Audiophonics and Allo are selling/listing the same item.Yep, I knew I'd seen 1.3rev.
Bigman80
02-05-2019, 18:39
Yes, sorry my post wasn't very clear.No worries!
The second LPSU just seemed to increase and thoroughly improve the fluidity and open the soundstage to demonstrate even more acoustic information. I can hear the sound reflecting off the wall of the venue when listening the live Peter Schneider album. It also gives a cavernous feel to Eva Cassidys Songbird. The information was there before, it must have been but it just wasn't as available.
Getting rid of any SMPS in this rig is an absolute must.
The overall tonal balance of the unit has not changed, which I was slightly concerned about. I didn't want it to become shrill for instance, which has happened when installing LPSUs
For £50, it's a no brainer.
Bourneendboy
02-05-2019, 18:58
No worries!
The second LPSU just seemed to increase and thoroughly improve the fluidity and open the soundstage to demonstrate even more acoustic information. I can hear the sound reflecting off the wall of the venue when listening the live Peter Schneider album. It also gives a cavernous feel to Eva Cassidys Songbird. The information was there before, it must have been but it just wasn't as available.
Getting rid of any SMPS in this rig is an absolute must.
The overall tonal balance of the unit has not changed, which I was slightly concerned about. I didn't want it to become shrill for instance, which has happened when installing LPSUs
For £50, it's a no brainer.
Thanks for your thoughts.
Could two PSUs be better than one with a splitter cable?
Bigman80
02-05-2019, 19:03
Thanks for your thoughts.
Could two PSUs be better than one with a splitter cable?I tried that with mine as it has two 5v outputs. It was good, but two is better. Noticeably, was the verdict Jimbo and I came too.
Yes using a second LPSU bought about even less grain and a smoother fluidity to the sound.
Oli, see what you mean about those Duronic cables......I would never have believed it.
Nice suggestion.
Also, with your two LPSU, does one go to the pi and one to the isolator?
Cheers
Bigman80
02-05-2019, 19:26
Oli, see what you mean about those Duronic cables......I would never have believed it.
Nice suggestion.
Also, with your two LPSU, does one go to the pi and one to the isolator?
CheersHa! Another positive outcome. No, I didn't expect it either but happily, they really are superb and make a difference.
No, 1 LPSU to the DAC and 1 to the Pi. The one for the Pi runs warmer so if you stack them, put the Pi one in top.
That if you have the 1.3 isolator.
Ha! Another positive outcome. No, I didn't expect it either but happily, they really are superb and make a difference.
No, 1 LPSU to the DAC and 1 to the Pi. The one for the Pi runs warmer so if you stack them, put the Pi one in top.
That if you have the 1.3 isolator.
Cheers Oli
Bigman80
02-05-2019, 19:33
Cheers Oli[emoji4]
Bigman80
02-05-2019, 19:48
Just bought another two Duronic Ethernet cables for the TV streaming setup. A quick swap with the ones on the audio rig convinced me the picture improved.
These could be another great find. Well done those who recommended them.
We need a new forum section entitled
"Absolute bargains"
Yes, the email I have just received from Allo would appear to confirm this.
Time to order...
R
Indeed. The currently available Isolator is V1.2, using boards with hardware Revision 1.3. So Audiophonics and Allo are selling/listing the same item.
Edit... OK, ordered. Now the vexed question about the two power supplies needed. I already have an iFi PS supplying my RPi2 and Boss. I don’t like the fuss of battery packs. Am I better off getting another iFi , another Chinese LPS, or will the RPi power supply do for the “dirty side”?
Thanks,
R.
killie99
03-05-2019, 15:49
Out of curiosity I wondered what brand of ethernet cables I had used for my streamer as I had bought them a few years ago. Trawled through my purchase history on Amazon and found this:
https://i.postimg.cc/SNnVp9h8/ethernet-cable.jpg
Bigman80
03-05-2019, 16:25
Out of curiosity I wondered what brand of ethernet cables I had used for my streamer as I had bought them a few years ago. Trawled through my purchase history on Amazon and found this:
https://i.postimg.cc/SNnVp9h8/ethernet-cable.jpgHaha, superb!!!
They are a total bargain. I'm well happy
Bourneendboy
03-05-2019, 21:30
Yes, the email I have just received from Allo would appear to confirm this.
Time to order...
R
Edit... OK, ordered. Now the vexed question about the two power supplies needed. I already have an iFi PS supplying my RPi2 and Boss. I don’t like the fuss of battery packs. Am I better off getting another iFi , another Chinese LPS, or will the RPi power supply do for the “dirty side”?
Thanks,
R.
I have a second Ipower arriving tomorrow, so will report back.
Bourneendboy
04-05-2019, 12:50
I have a second Ipower arriving tomorrow, so will report back.
Well that was £50.00 well spent:)
Well that was £50.00 well spent:)
Interesting, thanks.
So you have 2 iFis, correct? One serving the isolator and the other to the
RPi?
Thanks again.
R
Bourneendboy
04-05-2019, 14:50
Interesting, thanks.
So you have 2 iFis, correct? One serving the isolator and the other to the
RPi?
Thanks again.
R
Yes, 2x iFi iPower, one on the Pi the other be on the Boss ( I have the Allo aluminium case, so no space for the isolater).
Very impressed with the improvement this brings:)
Bigman80
04-05-2019, 15:19
Yes, 2x iFi iPower, one on the Pi the other be on the Boss ( I have the Allo aluminium case, so no space for the isolater).
Very impressed with the improvement this brings:)Told ya. [emoji6]
Yes, 2x iFi iPower, one on the Pi the other be on the Boss ( I have the Allo aluminium case, so no space for the isolater).
Very impressed with the improvement this brings:)
Thanks.
R
Bourneendboy
04-05-2019, 18:02
Is it possible that files streamed from Onedrive sound better than a USB memory stick plugged into the Pi or am I imagining things?
I think I may need to rethink my storage needs.
Bigman80
04-05-2019, 18:07
Is it possible that files streamed from Onedrive sound better than a USB memory stick plugged into the Pi or am I imagining things?
I think I may need to rethink my storage needs.NAS to Pi sounds far better than USB. In comparison, USB sounds rather flat in terms of imaging
Yatsushiro
04-05-2019, 18:16
Is it possible that files streamed from Onedrive sound better than a USB memory stick plugged into the Pi or am I imagining things?
Yes. Avoid using Pi USB if possible, especially if the Pi is connected by ethernet.
Self powered hdds fair better than usb powered ones
Bourneendboy
04-05-2019, 18:19
NAS to Pi sounds far better than USB. In comparison, USB sounds rather flat in terms of imaging
Only used USB up until trying Onedrive this evening.
Does anyone want to explain the simplest NAS set up please? I don't have a USB port on my router if that makes any difference.
You could just send it via router from your pc.
Bourneendboy
04-05-2019, 18:53
You could just send it via router from your pc.
I don't keep my PC turned on. Think I may be able to get 1TB of Onedrive storage as I work part time at a college - fingers crossed.
OK, next silly question... iFi power supply or Chinese LPS?
Richard
Bigman80
04-05-2019, 20:50
OK, next silly question... iFi power supply or Chinese LPS?
RichardI've had my cheap Chinese LPSU since January, absolutely no issues whatsoever.
I've had my cheap Chinese LPSU since January, absolutely no issues whatsoever.
Thanks. I was wondering if there was any difference in SQ. There’s anecdotal evidence that the iFi is good at producing clean output but at the expense of increased RFI which could be picked up by ancillary equipment.
As both the iFi and the Chinese LPS are about the same price I was wondering which I should go for. There are also websites that say that the original RPi PS is a good one and will power the RPi satisfactorily and that the only benefit is using a clean supply for the DAC and or Isolator..
Ho Hum....
R
Thanks again Oli, you are always one step ahead of me. I have been studying and reading up on the Raspberry Pi 3+ and how it works, trying to get geared up to do exactly as you’ve done. Getting the files on the tiny memory card, and all that such thing can be a bit intimidating. But I’m an old computer guy so I’m sure I can handle it. The choice of the audio board seems to be the most important decision.
And I’ve seen some nice battery powered solutions, a Lithium battery the same size as the board, made especially for it, and should provide many hours of use. Much like my battery powered phono pre, the benefits of battery outweigh its drawbacks. Can a power supply approach the purity of a battery? At any cost? I’m inclined to doubt it, and I don’t have it in front of me, but I think it was under $50.
I’d be curious how you think this has changed your listening habits? Are you listening to more new music because of it? Or more music in general? Suddenly having access to every record ever made could cause a man to get giddy, and loose sleep trying to hear it all? For years, I was so dismayed, that the Internet was having a negative effect on music, MP3’s were going to ruin music forever! But from what you say, it has come full circle, and now best quality is out there in the Ether. And I’ll agree that network cables making SQ differences is maddening. A quick reminder of just how little we know about the Universe. Something in the Quantum Foam no doubt, dicking with reality. Thanks again for some excellent reporting and motivational speaking!
Russell
Bigman80
05-05-2019, 07:32
Thanks again Oli, you are always one step ahead of me. I have been studying and reading up on the Raspberry Pi 3+ and how it works, trying to get geared up to do exactly as you’ve done. Getting the files on the tiny memory card, and all that such thing can be a bit intimidating. But I’m an old computer guy so I’m sure I can handle it. The choice of the audio board seems to be the most important decision.
And I’ve seen some nice battery powered solutions, a Lithium battery the same size as the board, made especially for it, and should provide many hours of use. Much like my battery powered phono pre, the benefits of battery outweigh its drawbacks. Can a power supply approach the purity of a battery? At any cost? I’m inclined to doubt it, and I don’t have it in front of me, but I think it was under $50.
I’d be curious how you think this has changed your listening habits? Are you listening to more new music because of it? Or more music in general? Suddenly having access to every record ever made could cause a man to get giddy, and loose sleep trying to hear it all? For years, I was so dismayed, that the Internet was having a negative effect on music, MP3’s were going to ruin music forever! But from what you say, it has come full circle, and now best quality is out there in the Ether. And I’ll agree that network cables making SQ differences is maddening. A quick reminder of just how little we know about the Universe. Something in the Quantum Foam no doubt, dicking with reality. Thanks again for some excellent reporting and motivational speaking!
RussellHi Russell,
Yes, you are right. I too felt the internet, iTunes, and all that crap was ruining music. Diluted to a poxy little metal box and earphones with only MP3 for company seemed like a tragedy to me.
I have been aware of Flac and lossless audio for some time but they were only files for my phone. At least the sq on the move was good. The idea of playing file based audio had been trialed here to mediocre results. An M2tech young DAC hooked up to an old laptop sounded "ok" but never convinced me to pursue that avenue. I'd tried a Valab DAC and one of those Chi-Fi valve DACs everyone loved but again, as good as it was, it didn't make me want to listen.
I can't remember how it came about but Mikeyb (the Godfather of Pi) offered to loan me some gear when I was pondering a Pi setup. He sent a few bits down and there came the first piece of digital audio that I felt *could* be worth pursuing.
All I have done, with Jimbo's help, is push this Pi lark as far as possible in terms of additional hardware. There's guys over on TAS who are playing with code! They are truly ahead of the curve.
The effect:
What I do now, is listen to a more varied selection of music. I'm no longer confined to the Vinyl collection, that I can't afford to invest in currently, after a long layoff at work. Its given me the ability to try any album without fear of wasting money and that is a great thing. I've been put off trying a few artists due to the price of vinyl. I'm not a collector, I like to listen to what I buy so from that POV, it's a roaring success.
Bigman80
05-05-2019, 07:36
Thanks. I was wondering if there was any difference in SQ. There’s anecdotal evidence that the iFi is good at producing clean output but at the expense of increased RFI which could be picked up by ancillary equipment.
As both the iFi and the Chinese LPS are about the same price I was wondering which I should go for. There are also websites that say that the original RPi PS is a good one and will power the RPi satisfactorily and that the only benefit is using a clean supply for the DAC and or Isolator..
Ho Hum....
RI can only say that the Chinese LPSU is performing faultlessly. I spent my money there, as did Jimbo and I believe we are both very happy with its performance.
As for clean Vs dirty,
I tried the following:
1 SMPS
1 SMPS & 1 LPSU
1 LPSU
2 LPSU'S
the best sound quality was with 2 LPSUs
The single LPSU was also used with both 5v outputs but did not sound as good as two separate LPSU.
Bourneendboy
05-05-2019, 08:15
The single LPSU was also used with both 5v outputs but did not sound as good as two separate LPSU.
I tried powering both with a Longdog Audio LPSU and splitter cable and actually preferred it powering the Boss with the jumper left in place.
Moved the Longdog on and tried a single ifi and now two. Two PSU's is the best to my ears by far.
I tried powering both with a Longdog Audio LPSU and splitter cable and actually preferred it powering the Boss with the jumper left in place.
Moved the Longdog on and tried a single ifi and now two. Two PSU's is the best to my ears by far.
Thats what we found Bill.:thumbsup:
Thanks everyone. Another LPS to be ordered later today.
R
Thats what we found Bill.:thumbsup:
mightymonoped
05-05-2019, 12:49
Curious as to why second power is into RPi rather than into the Isolator (then feeding the RPi)?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Well I just bought all the bits for this set up.
I currently have a LDA LPS running an rpi2/hifberry set up and have a spare Squeezebox Ifi power in a drawer somewhere.
Q, will my current LDA LPS work as is with this new set up or need adjustment?
T
Edit; both are 5v so should be fine :)
Firebottle
06-05-2019, 14:53
Curious as to why second power is into RPi rather than into the Isolator (then feeding the RPi)?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The isolator doesn't feed the Pi. The V1 isolator can be powered (6.2 to 12V) which feeds the DAC, or 5V direct to the DAC, which feeds the isolator (subsequent versions also).
mightymonoped
06-05-2019, 14:58
The isolator doesn't feed the Pi. The V1 isolator can be powered (6.2 to 12V) which feeds the DAC, or 5V direct to the DAC, which feeds the isolator (subsequent versions also).
I’m using a Katana & Isolator stack Alan, the Tech guide gives instructions for powering the RPi from the Isolator with the other power supply into the MC.
This is how I’ve got it set up and seems to work just fine.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190506/37a3dbfe3027e2e0cdd1bc68297e9300.jpg
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Bigman80
06-05-2019, 15:04
I’m using a Katana & Isolator stack Alan, the Tech guide gives instructions for powering the RPi from the Isolator with the other power supply into the MC.
This is how I’ve got it set up and seems to work just fine.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190506/37a3dbfe3027e2e0cdd1bc68297e9300.jpg
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkWe're using the Boss.
Firebottle
06-05-2019, 17:16
Ah, OK it is different with the Katana.
mightymonoped
06-05-2019, 18:59
Ah, OK it is different with the Katana.
Yes, I was wondering if it was possible to configure the Boss so that the Boss power input could be used for clean supply and the Isolator could be used for dirty (powering the RPi)?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Bigman80
06-05-2019, 19:20
Yes, I was wondering if it was possible to configure the Boss so that the Boss power input could be used for clean supply and the Isolator could be used for dirty (powering the RPi)?
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI power the Boss and Pi, no power directly into the Isolator. That's the way Allo say to do it.
mightymonoped
06-05-2019, 20:56
I power the Boss and Pi, no power directly into the Isolator. That's the way Allo say to do it.
Must be different for the Boss then (I haven’t looked at Boss docs).
The Katana + Isolator defaults from Allo are for connection via MC board + Isolator when the Isolator is in the stack.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190506/5d2f599e6cf629115c717bca352feed3.jpg
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yes. Avoid using Pi USB if possible, especially if the Pi is connected by ethernet.
I used to use either flash or ssd via USB because setting up a NAS via ethernet was a bit of a pain (would need a bigger hole in the wall...).
Now use a partitioned micro SD card instead via the built in SD reader (a small partition for the OS and the other for albums)
Quality is markedly better - storage is limited but I only have about 50 albums I listen to regularly so it's a no brainer for me :thumbsup:
Yes. Avoid using Pi USB if possible, especially if the Pi is connected by ethernet.
I currently have two USB sticks directly in the pi. So would it sound better to use a spare pi as a NAS to hold these USBs, then link both to the router with Ethernet cables?
Or buy a 256gb micro SD and put my music on that?
Would both option likely improve on my current set up?
Pepperamip
08-05-2019, 16:23
I currently have two USB sticks directly in the pi. So would it sound better to use a spare pi as a NAS to hold these USBs, then link both to the router with Ethernet cables?
Or buy a 256gb micro SD and put my music on that?
Would both option likely improve on my current set up?I wouldnt buy a pi soley as a storage device. I use a standard portable hdd straight into one of the USB ports. You need to be giving the pi a decent amount of current for this to work correctly so the psu you are using will dictate whether or not this is feasible. You'll want at least 2.5a and probably nearer 3a psu to work well.
However some have reported benefits to listening to stored music off the SD card. Do a test and if you like this option buy as big a one as you can afford and stick your music on there.
Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk
I use a second PI as a NAS server (openvaultmedia) with a 6TB USB drive (separately powered) to stream my music to my other PI using IQaudio DAC Plus.
It sounds spot on to my ears and for the cost, a bargain (been using a PI as a music streamer for around 5 years now)
I used to run 2rpis with a hdd attached to only one. Using volumio I could easily send it to the other. I heard no difference.
But I use a self powered hdd which I recommend
Bigman80
08-05-2019, 18:39
I use a second PI as a NAS server (openvaultmedia) with a 6TB USB drive (separately powered) to stream my music to my other PI using IQaudio DAC Plus.
It sounds spot on to my ears and for the cost, a bargain (been using a PI as a music streamer for around 5 years now)This is where I will end up eventually.
Thanks all for the good thoughts.
I have a spare Pi lying around so a DIY NAS could be the way to go for the cost of some network cable.
For around £30 a 256gb micro SD card appeals for its neatness if SQ is equal between those two options.
It seems generally agreed that direct from USB is probably marginally inferior SQ.
Thanks all for the good thoughts.
I have a spare Pi lying around so a DIY NAS could be the way to go for the cost of some network cable.
For around £30 a 256gb micro SD card appeals for its neatness if SQ is equal between those two options.
It seems generally agreed that direct from USB is probably marginally inferior SQ.
If you pay volumio it can act as a nas for you to a point but there is a software that is set up to be a nas. OpenMediaVault software
I use a second PI as a NAS server (openvaultmedia) with a 6TB USB drive (separately powered) to stream my music to my other PI using IQaudio DAC Plus.
It sounds spot on to my ears and for the cost, a bargain (been using a PI as a music streamer for around 5 years now)
Is this easy to do? Does it work over wifi or only via Ethernet?
I have a second pi and a couple of spare usb drives.
Thanks
DIY NAS, Good idea if you have the parts knocking about, instructions here: https://thepi.io/how-to-use-your-raspberry-pi-as-a-nas-box/
For something plug n play and a bit neater with hot plug drive support I'd go for an all in one NAS already setup like this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Personal-Storage-Remote-Access-Streaming/dp/B07GQWVC67/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=Zyxel+Personal+Cloud+Storage&qid=1557399972&s=computers&sr=1-4-catcorr
Still need the drives though...
Is this easy to do? Does it work over wifi or only via Ethernet?
I have a second pi and a couple of spare usb drives.
Thanks
If you have the latest board with the Wifi built-in even easier but you could also add a USB WiFi dongle if you choose and would work. But to be honest the NAS is better if you use Ethernet.
Is it easy? - I would say fairly easy. Download the software and install onto an SD card of your choice (greater then 4Gb) using the relevant tool to copy the image and make the SD card bootable then boot it up and sniff it out on the network.
Login with the default admin account and either follow the helpfull tutorials on the net or if you have a rough idea of how file shareing works then even easier (I have nearly 40 years IT experience so a piece of cake for me ;) )
Easy to setup so your smart TV can access it to so all areas are catered for (also use it to back up my MAC and phone).
Again, I use a self powered USB drive (cheap as chips) - need to get another one so I have a backup as most of my other USB drives are not large enough now.
Thanks for info guys, I will give it a go when I have minute. The only problem I see is getting it to work with moode. At present I have my pi connected via WiFi to my ZyXEL NSA310 NAS in the computer room, this works very well but is getting a little low on space and a bit long in the tooth.
Just assembled a Rpi/Isolater/Boss kit and discovered that the isolator and Boss do not use the same micro c connector as the rpi and therefore I need an adapter for my LPSU.
I've searched ebay and amazon but not entirely sure what connector I need.
Can anyone advise please?
Bigman80
09-05-2019, 15:14
Just assembled a Rpi/Isolater/Boss kit and discovered that the isolator and Boss do not use the same micro c connector as the rpi and therefore I need an adapter for my LPSU.
I've searched ebay and amazon but not entirely sure what connector I need.
Can anyone advise please?This for pi
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190509/2aaf10bfe9e017d746f6c5fdf4915655.jpg
Bigman80
09-05-2019, 15:17
This for DAC
If you have the above connections, you can buy one of these Belkin adapters:
https://www.belkin.com/us/p/P-F2CU058/https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190509/24de2b89d8400547f6d0739e830e6918.jpg
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Female-Type-C-USB-C-to-Male-Micro-USB-B-Data-Charging-Cable-Adapter-Converter/163667779650?var=&hash=item261b5c2042&enc=AQADAAADEFjVrDbVsZ8oH%2F8PNHtt9VX4%2Fw7FZcmMuq sX8uaFEduV8T1%2F6hy2W6v7Z%2B1WkbieQesEiQxqGoWVGL46 4huyLZWvC4r%2F8S3BAHt6P%2B0OLgBCyNWDnYCUfays%2BqAO fMQGWfMkZN4HFHhXxN%2FFoj%2BIeTs1%2FisPaYZc0rnedAiE w1K30AHTuyS8pt7ViW5%2FK69PsRoDHF74yvPVqHNPd3YMxHcy u3hEupvp8d8OxnXAmIlu0%2BW3%2FLyNsw83uI5uSc2lM0jfD7 YdqkUUCULv2EI48tfOVl7RgApaYXVB%2FdvNRR0Cdw8pGMVlME 9qO8Ibna9%2BgagfgGLKz5Q7ZmiipiAZ1%2Bc%2BbphUvMbNyE lsANge7h5iRp4MCnO2RxsudllCQ12M%2FXGob8DzoGgIpV%2BB W4YavAQWmFVQoCdrem6iHI8jPBaheQrpgIr7B5coHXpKNixaOK IUaAZi0QF0ZtiAmUPzBMy4lp%2FB5Vl7WEMwmMZWdc6VC%2FqA o%2BEc3fQj0vW5Owu0YJMa49EKGFOAPgK3XmElzNk6nPlE8JuF Iw8vTKAz5ii%2FNWvaoPk2pPY4htzoZrtp%2FusOhIei6plmNv 7ZnYmmzC5HuMOj9pdgZAuX7N7tkTEP1KqwHszPjgN%2FxHY0UI Vgzqy2WPgQ2wxTg1UOI9aKvas%2Fd67WAyAygkXvDdrdetEA3% 2B%2BymqDr1iBqmFLv3gULSq9EJ9kI0AH7IRf%2FN9BTOsCI%2 Boneb6N7Z6HcbB3dLGKKROD8aQWRNRPr75uLAI7hz5C0btQaMj f1GsOzE6SW%2Bn0JyxsyjhWcyDqiTv5A96MhP2JGsWVLA23b06 6Z9vvKC36APMad6OtFAlS%2Ba38lMtqlswqHGPFCEFSqJj8GJB xfZawCwPPuChEPLoEVB5gklCVDhe3XfO5jPA9DLeXuZdvaLvvR dcOzEgIvS9grNudBxa7yiKZIw68XnDPKz2GR9cd7Zsw9m4fGyv qKtDkbVi9NdUYT2EKnoMjQyRo1zEGXevBZogjFSn9%2Fti3w0x 2jVT0FAwXiRfsr9RTSXwnI7Vs%3D&checksum=163667779650efeaaea65ca444b79e2794c0a401d c54&frcectupt=true
summat like this probably
Thanks got this one from Amazon
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07DNT8T8D/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
mightymonoped
09-05-2019, 15:30
These little adaptors work a treat..
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B072X3TZ15/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
approx £5.91 for a pack of 4
The RPi uses USB-Micro, The Boss uses USB-C
These adaptors will convert USB-Micro to USB-C and are currently in use in my RPi/Allo setup.
OK, so that's the connectors sorted.
Just waiting for a new SD card now.
I'm currently using Max2play on my current rpi set up.
I see that many are running with volumino.
Is this now the preferred way to go?
Bigman80
09-05-2019, 15:38
OK, so that's the connectors sorted.
Just waiting for a new SD card now.
I'm currently using Max2play on my current rpi set up.
I see that many are running with volumino.
Is this now the preferred way to go?I like Volumio however, newer versions don't appear to like working with JRiver. I still have an old version which works perfectly but I just cannot get the new one to play ball.
If anyone knows of Pi software that allows this, I'd be interested to know.
I like Volumio however, newer versions don't appear to like working with JRiver. I still have an old version which works perfectly but I just cannot get the new one to play ball.
If anyone knows of Pi software that allows this, I'd be interested to know.
yup i had to go back to old version a while ago. dont know if it was an oversight or deliberate. i stopped paying them because of it.
I wont update mine.
Bigman80
09-05-2019, 16:52
yup i had to go back to old version a while ago. dont know if it was an oversight or deliberate. i stopped paying them because of it.
I wont update mine.No idea but I've just spent an hour trying to use moode and that is not happening for reasons I don't understand. Looks like I'm stuck like you
I like Volumio however, newer versions don't appear to like working with JRiver. I still have an old version which works perfectly but I just cannot get the new one to play ball.
If anyone knows of Pi software that allows this, I'd be interested to know.
Try DietPI Oli.... Really good and there's lots of additional options on it like turning your pi into a squeezebox player, Spotify connect etc.
There's also Rune and Picoreplayer
Volumio even in an older version works fine tho. Just a matter of not updating.
I like it's layout and it's bombproof build.
Bigman80
09-05-2019, 20:04
Try DietPI Oli.... Really good and there's lots of additional options on it like turning your pi into a squeezebox player, Spotify connect etc.
There's also Rune and PicoreplayerAh, ok. Will do. I now have a spare card so can play about.
killie99
09-05-2019, 20:39
PiCorePlayer with Squeezelite is superb and super stable. Runs completely in memory so damn near impossible for the image on the SD card to get corrupted, even if you have a power failure. I use it with my DigiOne and have a 2nd RPi (with 1TB SSD) running PiCorePlayer with LMS as the music server. It just never fails to work. All controlled by iPeng on the iPhone.
PiCorePlayer with Squeezelite is superb and super stable. Runs completely in memory so damn near impossible for the image on the SD card to get corrupted, even if you have a power failure. I use it with my DigiOne and have a 2nd RPi (with 1TB SSD) running PiCorePlayer with LMS as the music server. It just never fails to work. All controlled by iPeng on the iPhone.
Yup, recently moved from max2play to picoreplayer should have done it ages ago, having to have a ‘licence’ to be able to write protect the SD card pissed me off especially when the ‘licence’ runs out! Piecoreplayer is rock solid and has great support. I run LMS on my zyxel NAS.
Yatsushiro
10-05-2019, 08:53
My journey through the RPi audio OS's took me from Rune (a firm favourite initially), various unsuccessful trials of Volumio, Moode and Archphile, back to Rune and then to PiCorePlayer.
I have one RPi 3 on Raspbian Stretch Lite running solely LMS, with a 2TB HDD. This serves my music files to a current total of 6 RPi's running PCP (including 2 in the garden, one in our polytunnel, one in our pergola). I don't use spotify, tidal etc, but listen to my music, Radio Paradise and Radio 4 and 4 Extra for comedies and dramas.
PCP has proved both faultless and foolproof, despite my best attempts. For the cost of an SD card and a little time, it really is worth a try...
Download and more info here: https://www.picoreplayer.org/
Support forum here: https://forums.slimdevices.com/
i had pcp and squeezelite,(i think that was the combo) running. Chris(stratmangler) gave me a lot of his time in walking me through it, but i found it complicated and being older, and having memory issues with this kind of thing until its become second nature, i kept getting lost. Graphically it left a lot to be desired as well, although if i had found it easier to use i would probably still be using it. Hence the ready made suit of volumio for me ticks enough boxes....until something betters it
Thanks for info guys, I will give it a go when I have minute. The only problem I see is getting it to work with moode. At present I have my pi connected via WiFi to my ZyXEL NSA310 NAS in the computer room, this works very well but is getting a little low on space and a bit long in the tooth.
Openvaultmedia now up and running on my second pi with a 1TB usb drive, mounted in moode 5.1 and running well, thanks guys.
Well I've installed PCP/Squeezelite.
Very straightforward install and has connected to my Tidal sub well.
I can access the LMS from my laptop easily.
Just waiting for amazon to deliver my Boss DAC connector adaptor and I should be good to go.
It will be interesting to seek how it fairs against my current setup of rpi2/hifiberry hat to Xiang Sheng 01DAC......
Yatsushiro
10-05-2019, 13:16
Graphically it left a lot to be desired as well...t
This has largely been addressed by the recent introduction, and ongoing development, of the 'Material Skin' by a PCP user, Craig Drummond. It is a UI that automatically adapts to phone, tablet, TV, PC screen etc.
https://github.com/CDrummond/lms-material/raw/master/screenshots/browse.png
https://github.com/CDrummond/lms-material/raw/master/screenshots/now-playing.png
https://github.com/CDrummond/lms-material/raw/master/screenshots/queue.png
The above screenshots of an earlier version. Later versions have more functionality, flexibility and ease of use.
certainly better than it was:)
Bigman80
10-05-2019, 15:12
Just downloaded Picore. Any tips on use with the Jriver software?
Sent from my VKY-L09 using Tapatalk
Bigman80
10-05-2019, 16:11
Well that was an absolute waste of time. JRiver just will not find the pi so i am back to the Volumio version i have that works.
kodi or plex should be dlna compliant
think when i had it running it was pcp and lms(logitech media) and there was a plugin for dlna for lms
Bigman80
10-05-2019, 16:59
think when i had it running it was pcp and lms(logitech media) and there was a plugin for dlna for lmsWell, I've just downloaded Volumio v1.5 and put it in the PecanPi and it's working perfectly, just like my Allo Boss does.
This has been a real pain in the arse. The PecanPi came with the latest Volumio version which only allowed me to play one track at a time from Jriver and then had to reboot the lot.
I am now going to see how many versions I can go before losing the ability to play via Jriver lol
Right, now I can sit down and really get my ears into it!
Sent from my VKY-L09 using Tapatalk
Be inter eating to see where it stopped
Bigman80
10-05-2019, 17:17
Be inter eating to see where it stoppedI agree, very inner eating. [emoji39]
Sent from my VKY-L09 using Tapatalk
This has been a real pain in the arse.
And you wonder why I don't want to get into it!
Bigman80
10-05-2019, 17:25
And you wonder why I don't want to get into it!Hahahaha, yes I totally understand but once done, it's epic.
Also, if I wasn't demoing a PecanPi, I'd not have had any issues at all.
Sent from my VKY-L09 using Tapatalk
Bourneendboy
10-05-2019, 18:48
I wish I had left alone!
Wasted an evening trying to get a second Pi working with Openmediavault, gave up and have sent that back. Faffed around trying a 128GB SD card and can't get the Pi to boot with it, in the meantime now my Pi won't load my USB stick!
Now all I can source is Tidal and that works perfectly!
Maybe I should just forego £20 a month for simplicity and an unlimited music library!
Well that was a performance trying to get it all to work with picoreplayer just couldn't get it to output any sound with it.
Got fed up and slapped on max2play and worked 1st time!
SQ is certainly very impressive!
I'm using an ifi power plug for the rpi and a LDA LPSU for the Boss.
I wonder if it will improve further with a little use?
Very pleased with this set up...
Bigman80
10-05-2019, 19:32
I wish I had left alone!
Wasted an evening trying to get a second Pi working with Openmediavault, gave up and have sent that back. Faffed around trying a 128GB SD card and can't get the Pi to boot with it, in the meantime now my Pi won't load my USB stick!
Now all I can source is Tidal and that works perfectly!
Maybe I should just forego £20 a month for simplicity and an unlimited music library!Hmm, I want to try omv but I am not sure I'd get it working either lol.
Sent from my VKY-L09 using Tapatalk
Bigman80
10-05-2019, 19:33
Well that was a performance trying to get it all to work with picoreplayer just couldn't get it to output any sound with it.
Got fed up and slapped on max2play and worked 1st time!
SQ is certainly very impressive!
I'm using an ifi power plug for the rpi and a LDA LPSU for the Boss.
I wonder if it will improve further with a little use?
Very pleased with this set up...Definitely. The clock gets more accurate with hours put into it. No idea why but that's what I read.
Allo also recommend two weeks solid listening before it's fully burned in.
Sent from my VKY-L09 using Tapatalk
Bourneendboy
10-05-2019, 19:55
The Pi is a proper pain in the arse - I hate it FFS!
Bigman80
10-05-2019, 19:58
The Pi is a proper pain in the arse - I hate it FFS![emoji23][emoji23]
Sent from my VKY-L09 using Tapatalk
Definitely. The clock gets more accurate with hours put into it. No idea why but that's what I read.
Allo also recommend two weeks solid listening before it's fully burned in.
Sent from my VKY-L09 using Tapatalk
Well I can already hear an improvement over the previous set up with a more dynamic, detailed yet sweeter sound...
Excellent value for money!
Bigman80
10-05-2019, 19:59
Well I can already hear an improvement over the previous set up with a more dynamic, detailed yet sweeter sound...
Excellent value for money!I totally agree
Sent from my VKY-L09 using Tapatalk
Shovel_Knight
10-05-2019, 20:00
My Pi, Allo Boss and related bits and pieces were supposed to arrive today -- well, that didn't happen because DPD screwed up the delivery, as usual.
Bummer.
My Pi, Allo Boss and related bits and pieces were supposed to arrive today -- well, that didn't happen because DPD screwed up the delivery, as usual.
Bummer.
Ah well, trust me it will be worth the wait.
The thrill of putting together the kit reminds of my mechano days and the SQ is very very good!
Hi Oliver
The pi will be running tomorrow, the Ethernet cable arrives tomorrow, lets hope my next post isn't full of expletives.
I've waited a long time to get it running.
Let's hope it's worth it !!!!
Will update with a further post and my initial thoughts if i get it running...
Bigman80
10-05-2019, 20:39
Cool!,
Yes, more to be had from it but you will need to go back to an old version of Volumio if your plan is still to use Jriver.
I'm sure you'll love it
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mightymonoped
10-05-2019, 20:46
It’s worth every second invested in it. There’s so much enjoyment on the horizon [emoji4]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Shovel_Knight
10-05-2019, 21:18
Ah well, trust me it will be worth the wait.
The thrill of putting together the kit reminds of my mechano days and the SQ is very very good!
I was hoping to get it fully set up this weekend, but now it will have to wait until next Saturday.
Oh well, patience is a virtue.
beermaniac
11-05-2019, 06:26
Hi all
I am also trying out the Allo Boss Isolator set up but cant get Volumio to work on my Pi - anyone had any issues with a message like this
Failed to open "alsa" [alsa]; Failed to open ALSA device "hw:1,0": No such file or directory
Ive tried rebooting and changing SD card but no success - any help much appreciated.
Dave
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Have you configured your Allo Boss in the sound output menu Dave?
beermaniac
11-05-2019, 06:35
Yes i followed the Volumio start up steps and configured the Allo Boss as the DAC , and disabled then reenabled but no success. Are there any other settings i need to have ?
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Yes i followed the Volumio start up steps and configured the Allo Boss as the DAC , and disabled then reenabled but no success. Are there any other settings i need to have ?
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Was it working OK before you installed the isolator Dave or is this an entirely new setup?
beermaniac
11-05-2019, 06:50
I didnt try it before adding the Isolator and just set this up from scratch- maybe i should see if it works without the isolator ?
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I didnt try it before adding the Isolator and just set this up from scratch- maybe i should see if it works without the isolator ?
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Yes, I would suggest trying it without the isolator first. Also, the isolator has a switch for master or slave and should be set according to how your boss dac is set.
How are you powering your setup?
Spent a couple of hours comparing Tidal to HD files on the SSD and CD Rips in Flac on the SSD.
Tidal is not floating my boat. It sounds like all the horrid digital stuff i have tried and avoided previously. I emailed Tidal and they called me with some advice to improve the quality but it made little if any difference. Impressed with the customer service.
HD Files via SDD are superb. I can't find a fault with it so on we go.
There you go. I will be using a Pi3+ via SSD to play stored files and control it via Volumio, connected to the Wifi.
Well I never, I've been streaming via Tidal and remotely from my laptop for a while now.
Just tried some flac files on a USB stick directly connected to the pi and yes you are right it sounds much better!
Edit; Actually, having listened a bit more I'm not so convinced and using the LMS in the rpi is snail pace slow!
beermaniac
11-05-2019, 07:00
Yes, I would suggest trying it without the isolator first. Also, the isolator has a switch for master or slave and should be set according to how your boss dac is set.
How are you powering your setup?
Ah ok, so how the isolator be set up for the Boss then ? And how i make any changes to slave master ? Im using an Audiophonics PSU with 2 USBs to power the Pi and Boss separately.
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Ah ok, so how the isolator be set up for the Boss then ? And how i make any changes to slave master ? Im using an Audiophonics PSU with 2 USBs to power the Pi and Boss separately.
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The boards themselves have switches on for master/slave. Its usually just plug and play though so doubt that's your problem. Also when powering up, the dac should be done first and then the pi. What isolator version is it Dave?
beermaniac
11-05-2019, 07:18
The boards themselves have switches on for master/slave. Its usually just plug and play though so doubt that's your problem. Also when powering up, the dac should be done first and then the pi. What isolator version is it Dave?
Ah ok - its the latest version 1.3. Trying to set up again now!
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Ah ok - its the latest version 1.3. Trying to set up again now!
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Just checked and the 1.3 defo needs to be set up in master mode, but as I say, should be plug and play already.
beermaniac
11-05-2019, 07:32
Ok trying to get sound from the Pi now - what should be the output settings?
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Ok trying to get sound from the Pi now - what should be the output settings?
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select i2s as sound output and then pick Allo boss from the drop down menu
beermaniac
11-05-2019, 08:06
select i2s as sound output and then pick Allo boss from the drop down menu
Sorry for being such a numpty but i am still trying to get a grip of this computer audio! Ok i have it working without the isolator fitted.
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Bigman80
11-05-2019, 08:11
Well I never, I've been streaming via Tidal and remotely from my laptop for a while now.
Just tried some flac files on a USB stick directly connected to the pi and yes you are right it sounds much better!
Edit; Actually, having listened a bit more I'm not so convinced and using the LMS in the rpi is snail pace slow!Ah, things moved on again after that to using files from a local NAS. I no longer recommend using the USB port.
Bigman80
11-05-2019, 08:12
Yes, I would suggest trying it without the isolator first. Also, the isolator has a switch for master or slave and should be set according to how your boss dac is set.
How are you powering your setup?The 1.3 isolator doesn't have a switch? . Its only compatible with master dacs.
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