What can I expect from an upgraded cdp?

[Mikeandvan]

So I've done all the turntable upgrade thing, deck, arm, cart. Now that I'm paying serious attention to cds, I'm wondering about what improvements a 'better', i.e. more expensive cdp would bring. At the minute I am quite happy, but as audiophiles I'm sure you all have that feeling 'am I missing something'? I'm not the most serious audiophile so I'm not interested unless its a big/real upgrade/improvement. I currently use a rather lovely mint Pioneer PD 8700, it cost me £60 and works a dream. So your thinking, no need to scratch that itch then! Well I am wondering what would something like a Sony cdp 338es bring ? Is it worth it, or do I need to go higher? Or is it even worth it considering my rather humble amp? The Naim Nait 5 (with optional power supply!). Bearing in mind the Sony es range/other 80s/90s Jap brands are getting on for 30 years old, is it even worth bothering? Though of course there are fellows out there who can service these items, if parts are still available that is.

[Macca]

With a Naim amp I'd be inclined to go for a Naim CD player.

[Mikeandvan]

With a Naim amp I'd be inclined to go for a Naim CD player.

The amp may not be around that long. Bought it because it was an absolute bargain, and I wanted something serviced, but am thinking the overall sound may not be for me in the long run, though it will certainly do for the time being.

[Jerry B]

Have you considered buying a Dac?
And using your Pioneer PD 8700 as transport, with the optical out?

[MikeMusic]

The 8700 looks like a stable platter so keep it.
How about a DAC as Jerry says
Nice upgrade on my Pioneer going to a Beresford.
Another upgrade with battery or other power supplies.
Starting at the front if you don't already :
Unswitched socket, decent power block, decent mains cables, interconnects, supports like RDC cones are good VFM.
Belles integrated for an amp should stomp on the Naim

[Macca]

I've had a lot of CD players over the years and still have about a dozen of them lying around. There can be quite a difference in presentation between them but there is rarely a difference in quality. The two things are often confused. Some real cheap and nasty jobs aside, quality doesn't tend to vary much. You have to step up to the real 'battleship' designs, in particular the Jap kit from the late 1980s to early 2000s to get an improvement there and even then it isn't a massive jump up.


Amplification plays a big part in getting good digital sound. This always seems to be overlooked. The objections to the sound quality of CD when it first came out I reckon were down entirely to 'flat earth' amplification like Naim and Exposure that a good chunk of the serious UK enthusiasts were using at the time. The rest of the world never had a problem, funny that.

[Firebottle]

Have you tried playing the CD digital output through your N-50K streamer?

Worth a shot before you do anything else.

[DSJR]

A Flatcapped Nait 5 is very fair indeed until it's pushed too hard, especially now it's some years old and the current cosmetic models don't seem to drift off as quickly as older CB and Olive models did. Just that when it clips it tells you NASTILY in my experience!!! The later versions seem a little 'tamer' sonically (in a good way) so don't ditch the Naim automatically just yet until you've heard something 'genuinely' better.. (No, I'm not trying to get back into Naim's good books, but they have moved on - at silly-high prices I admit - and their current rather lovely looking/feeling streamer-amps do sound better/nicer than I remember earlier models sounding even if costs are prohibitive for many of us)

The Naim CD players, whatever you or I think about them, had some quite serious production engineering in them, the hinged 'drawer' almost a work of (possibly clumsy) art if taken apart to change the mechanism for example. You can't, in my opinion, slag them off for just cobbling a few Philips circuit boards into an overpriced case... The old upgrade situation where you add yet more boxes is a pain though, although one Flatcap can power two units (Nait 5 preamp and CD player audio circuit) I seem to remember

Of course there's plenty of well priced alternatives, but the Pioneer you have should make for a splendid transport as suggested above and sound quality aside, the 'feel' of a top-range player is always a joy, bearing in mind most go for peanuts today as everyone seems to stream... DAC's have also become cheaper but you need to be careful what to go for. I have a tiny DAC box from eBay costing well under a tenner depending on the seller and with an external 5V low noise linear supply which can be imported for forty quid from China, it 'sounds' great and on its own you don't hear any shortcomings, though maybe it's no better at all than you have already. Only drawback with this cheapie is the output is lower than usual and unless precisely level matched if A-B comparing, it'll sound worse because it's quieter and you can't switch inputs on it either. Amazing how good cheap DAC engineering can be though and I do believe the higher cost of many otherwise excellent Top End examples over a grand is more intellectual property in the designs than component and case costs..

[Mikeandvan]

Thanks for all replies. It seems to chime with what Steve - STD305M forum member - said today when he came around to buy my Nakamichi pre amp, he ended up recommending I keep it and change my amplification (Naim) ! And to possibly try out a Beresford DAC. So I'll keep the PD8700, and hunt around for a new power amp and possibly DAC. Thanks all.

[Lawrence001]

If you want digital to be a genuine alternative to vinyl in your system I'd consider spending quite a bit more on the dac. From my experience stable platter players can be used with some quite decent dacs without embarrassing themselves.

Sent from my BLN-L21 using Tapatalk

[walpurgis]

I spent a good few years going through many DAC's, aiming for an improvement in CD replay each time. I finally started getting where I wanted to be once I tried Theta DACs, which kept me happy enough for a few years until I discovered the Monarchy Audio M22 series. They blew away everything I'd tried or heard up to that point. I now stick with an M22B and also an M22C and no longer feel a need to experiment further as the sound quality is amazing.

Different CD players do sound different, even when using them as transports as I do. I own four, which I am happy with.

I tried Toslink optical connections many times, but ended up concluding that SPDIF digital coax (digital phono lead) was superior, although many leads of either type are not up to much. I now make my own digital phono cables specifically for CD to DAC use, which I find superior to most and as good as any (in other words, extemely good).

I have a few of these cables in 0.8m length and may consider loaning one to established UK members to try if interested.

[karma67]

Steve - STD305M forum member - said today when he came around to buy my Nakamichi pre amp, .

sweet as! he liked mine a lot. well done steve enjoy :cool:

[Mikeandvan]

sweet as! he liked mine a lot. well done steve enjoy :cool:

He didn't buy it Jamie, he recommended I keep it, as we tried it in pre amp mode and it was better, something I didn't really try before. He's gonna bring me around a power amp so I can hear the Nak better, as putting it through my Nait 5 isn't ideal as I'm sure you'll agree! A really helpful guy. I'd now love to try a Nak pa-5 or 7 to complete the look!

[Jerry B]

If looking at a Dac, the Beresford Seg is a pretty cheap option.
Performs well above its price.
Throw in the Dorado power supply at some stage to lift performance.

[karma67]

He didn't buy it Jamie, he recommended I keep it, as we tried it in pre amp mode and it was better, something I didn't really try before. He's gonna bring me around a power amp so I can hear the Nak better, as putting it through my Nait 5 isn't ideal as I'm sure you'll agree! A really helpful guy. I'd now love to try a Nak pa-5 or 7 to complete the look!

ah,well you welcome to try it through my john wood amp too,any weekend.
sticking it through a pa-5 or 7 would be bliss i reckon.

[Mikeandvan]

ah,well you welcome to try it through my john wood amp too,any weekend.
sticking it through a pa-5 or 7 would be bliss i reckon.

Cheers Jamie, will arrange a meet up soon, be great to hear your KT88, as I've never heard valves. And of course your rather legendary Jap TT's!

[joolz]

Shoutout for any of the PS audio DACS. I have upgraded to a Directstream, but had some of their earlier offerings before, and they are very good

[Mikeandvan]

Just bought an old Misson pcm 7000 CDP off Pinkfish, only £70, worth a try I thought.

[Lawrence001]

Saw that I thought the early TDA1541 crown chip looked interesting.

Sent from my BLN-L21 using Tapatalk

[Mikeandvan]

Saw that I thought the early TDA1541 crown chip looked interesting.

Sent from my BLN-L21 using Tapatalk

Yes, I've never heard this legendary chip. Hopefully will be worth the effort.

[Mikeandvan]

Saw that I thought the early TDA1541 crown chip looked interesting.

Sent from my BLN-L21 using Tapatalk

Yes, I've never heard this legendary chip. Hopefully will be worth the effort.

[Theadmans]

Just bought an old Misson pcm 7000 CDP off Pinkfish, only £70, worth a try I thought.

I bought one of those new in 1987 - was a very nice sounding player.

I had previously had a 14 Bit Phillips CD150 and the Mission was a definite improvement...

....loved the big digit blue screen (you could read from miles away)

https://auctions.c.yimg.jp/images.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/image/dr000/auc0303/users/8/9/8/8/soba2400-img600x450-14898983241489898324.02773271874kvzf32718.jpg


....does your still have the quite swanky remote control?

I bought a Bitstream Mission next and that was no real improvement on the PCM7000 (possibly actually a downgrade).

[Mikeandvan]

I bought one of those new in 1987 - was a very nice sounding player.

I had previously had a 14 Bit Phillips CD150 and the Mission was a definite improvement...

....loved the big digit blue screen (you could read from miles away)

https://auctions.c.yimg.jp/images.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/image/dr000/auc0303/users/8/9/8/8/soba2400-img600x450-14898983241489898324.02773271874kvzf32718.jpg


....does your still have the quite swanky remote control?

I bought a Bitstream Mission next and that was no real improvement on the PCM7000 (possibly actually a downgrade).

Hasn't arrived yet, but yes comes with remote thank God, wouldn't buy a cdp without a remote! I currently use a Pioneer pd8700 so we'll see how it sounds compared to that. The display is definite 80s hifi porn.

[alphaGT]

Hasn't arrived yet, but yes comes with remote thank God, wouldn't buy a cdp without a remote! I currently use a Pioneer pd8700 so we'll see how it sounds compared to that. The display is definite 80s hifi porn.

I recall when the Missions came out, they were favorably reviewed. And Yes on the remote control! Isn’t it amazing just how many people have lost their remotes? Literally half of all used stereo components that came with remotes, no longer have one! And leads me to the thought that, “if they can’t take care of the remote, what condition is the player in?” Which may or may not be relevant? But it does cross my mind.

Nice looking player! Congrats!

Russell