Trying to find Freeview TV channels

[dave2010]

I'm trying to figure out whether it's worth getting Freeview set up in a difficult (IMO) reception area.
According to the post code checker, the signals should be good, and includes HD reception - but in reality I'm pretty sure they're not.

http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/coveragechecker/

A check on transmitters also indiicates "good" reception - http://www.bbc.co.uk/receptionsearch

Plugging any simple aerial into a TV gives absolutely zilch, nul points, with a channel scan. Not even a sniff of a signal. Big Zero = 0.

A few neighbours in the area do have Freeview working, so it's possible, though I don't know how good the results are. I think adequate at least.

I looked at various scanning devices to see if they might help.
So far I've found some really cheap ones - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Kreema-Digital-Terrestrial-Strength-Reception/dp/B07CYMLQDQ/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1546501210&sr=8-1-fkmr1&keywords=compass+tv+scanner

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Labgear-27866R-Signal-Strength-Freeview-Grey/dp/B002L1YPVG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1546501293&sr=8-1&keywords=labgear+27866r+dvb-t+signal+strength+finder+freeview+hd+tv+aerial

and also some slightly more expensive ones -

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fringe-fringetvsat-Electronics-Satellite-Finder/dp/B00LGWN87S/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1546501356&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=fringe+dvb+tv+scanner

and mention of the signal measurement kit from Horizon, which seems in a completely different league, typically costing around £400

Some of the scanners seem to do satellite TV and some seem to do both terrrestrial and satellites.
One cheap satellite scanner is this one - https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00O0YA868/ref=psdc_528568031_t3_B00LGWN87S

Of the cheapish ones, the simplest seem to have a needle and dial, while some have a few lights (say 4-5). For low signal areas advice seems to be to go for one with more lights (say around 12). There also seem to be lots of anomalies in trying to pick up DVB-T signals, perhaps due to signal reflections and also to the way signals from different transmitters combine to provide service. See http://www.aerialsandtv.com/awkward-aerial-installation.html for examples.

I have got satellite TV working, as well as TV via internet, but I'd like to get Freeview working if at all possible.

I'm prepared to try with one or two pieces of scanning kit up to £30. Any recommendations?

[Firebottle]

For any terrestrial reception the better the antenna (highest gain) and the higher it is is critical.

Put you money into that. If you neighbours have long masts then get a longer one.

I used to do amateur television on UHF and SHF (microwaves), now that was chasing minute signals. A colleague once said 'When it is stormy weather and you are not worried about your antennas they are not high enough' :eyebrows:

[walpurgis]

I use only Freeview and get good reception in West London. I have a modest aerial at approximately chimney height on an exterior wall mounted mast.

(the Radio Times online Freeview TV guide is quite good if anybody is interested)

[StanleyB]

I used to do amateur television on UHF and SHF (microwaves), now that was chasing minute signals. A colleague once said 'When it is stormy weather and you are not worried about your antennas they are not high enough' :eyebrows:
You bring back fond memories of absent friends when I lived in the tropics.

I did quite a bit of work on freeview aerials about 15 years ago, but only the outdoor aerials managed a good signal. the DTV expectations and promises were that indoor aerial signals would improve once the analogue channels were switched off. Well, that was a pack of lies.

[struth]

Yup an outside roof aerial is best. a loft one is minimum really with modern TV tuners and digital free view.
I can nearly see the mast and need one

[mikmas]

I got a local guy to remove an old one and install an aerial for DB about 10 years ago and it works brilliantly (includes HD reception)
Didn't really fancy scrambling around the roof of our typical semi :(
Cost was about £120 all in - which I think very reasonable.
He was also a great bloke to chat to and repaired our flat screen TV a couple of years later when the PSU went (charged very little too..)
Worked so well that I also asked him back a couple of years ago to add an FM/DAB aerial.

He brought his own meter to get the best setup angle so I have no suggestions. ;)

[mikmas]

Yup an outside roof aerial is best. a loft one is minimum really with modern TV tuners and digital free view.

Yep, I put one of these loft jobbies in the rafters of our (single storey) garage, works a treat for £16.99 .. but no HD:

https://media.screwfix.com/is/image//ae235?src=ae235/33455_P&$prodImageMedium$

https://www.screwfix.com/p/labgear-yagi-mast-uhf-wideband-aerial/33455

[Pharos]

I'm pleased that you have raised the issue Dave, I have been having trouble with DVB ever since I got it. Readily identifiable is that my reception of the 'lower down the list' of freeview channels are often lost as a result of weather patterns.

This particularly irks me because I am not a fan, (despite my past), of the BBC, and ITV. So, I was considering Freesat which most around where I am seem to opt for. However a friend in Torquay says that he also often loses stations with freesat.
Also I live on the seafront, and a high (Ron Smith type) aerial is precluded because of storms.

I'm surprised that London is not well covered, but it may just be an obstacle local to you; when in London 24 years ago my FM reception was good with only an internal dipole on the curtain rail on the ground floor.

Recently my view has become, that if the media are so poor, I cannot bother with it, and put on the radio for the odd few good tracks, surfing instead.

So what are the deficiencies if any. of your Freesat Dave? IMO a roof aerial is essential if high def. matters to you, and I do get it intermittently, but as stated before, if you are eating poison, does it matter if the spoon is clean?

[DSJR]

Living on the Suffolk coast, we're often the last to get anything here, including an unreliable postal service (you miss days and get a pile on the following day...). Our freeview isn't that wonderful, but we get the obvious stations plus HD as well with very little breakup, but some of the other stations do break up and 'glitch' to the point that when atmospherics come into play, I seriously considered looking at freesat (I pay enough for fibre broadband and phone, i'm damned if I'm paying more).

Interesting, the cheapo receivers I have here are often better than the 'reference' Humax and Sony freeview receivers of a decade ago, such is progress.

Thing is, for people like me, the 'pixillation' on freeview pictures is horrible on a bigger screen set (many modern flat TV's are shit for my eyes as well, but that's changing for the better each year it seems). We only have small tellies here at home so it's not so bad, but go over 32" and it becomes awful from what I've seen (loads of lo-res TV channels of low rent content, rather that fewer stations of better broadcast quality)... I'm told freesat is better and the Sky boxes seem good on quality too. Hopefully I'm not totally out of my tree on this...

[struth]

not had tv for a few months now and dont miss it one bit:D

[dave2010]

He brought his own meter to get the best setup angle so I have no suggestions. ;)Professional installers may well use one of the fancy meters from Horizon, or similar. I think they are very different from the cheapie things that mere amateurs will consider.

THey've probably only got to do about 30 installations to break even on the cost of the kit, and the saving in time will more than offset the costs.

[dave2010]

I'm pleased that you have raised the issue Dave, I have been having trouble with DVB ever since I got it. Readily identifiable is that my reception of the 'lower down the list' of freeview channels are often lost as a result of weather patterns.Sorry to hear about your reception problems. I hope that this thread will eventually cover some of the issues, and maybe point towards solutions.

I'm surprised that London is not well covered, but it may just be an obstacle local to you; when in London 24 years ago my FM reception was good with only an internal dipole on the curtain rail on the ground floor.The London area is not badly covered, though reception can be patchy. Our house there is outside the M25. The current discussion relates to a couple of houses in Scotland near Inverness which belong to family members.
So what are the deficiencies if any. of your Freesat Dave? One house has old cable, and not enough cable links to drive multiple tuners, including a PVR. Apart from that, I have got it working, and the quality is quite good. To date I have not detected any FreeView signals at all. The post code checker suggests it ought to be possible, as also does the transmitter checker - a tool which is perhaps more use.

Postcode service checker - broad brush - limited use - http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/operations/about_the_coverage_checker

Transmitter checker - worth trying this one - http://www.bbc.co.uk/receptionsearch

This gives maps, showing locations of transmitters, which may be different for DVB-T, FM and DAB, so the tool has several uses.

[willbewill]

Last place we lived had zero terrestrial digital so used Freesat which was much the same, however I think it lacks some of the HD channels.

[tapid]

Lost 3 HD channels here in nth London that we used to receive without a problem, no idea why ?. Get some wonderful Radio 3, 2, FM broadcast though through
a modest Rotel tuner despite not having a dedicated FM aerial ( just ordinary tv rooftop one ), so well pleased with that.

[dave2010]

Last place we lived had zero terrestrial digital so used Freesat which was much the same, however I think it lacks some of the HD channels.Mostly they are the same, but there are a few channels which are not in both. Some are the delayed (+1) channels, which will only affect a few people, who may discover a programme after it's started, or want to create a more complex recording schedule for a PVR if there are several programmes of interest on different channels within the same time frame. Some may be HD channels (e.g. BBC News - with the local news omittd), and nowadays some may actually only be HD with the SD version removed from the mix. That doesn't always matter, though can have an effect on the installation (some cabling might not be quite good enough for HD) and also storage space if a PVR is to be used. This can also vary from region to region. Regional variations obviously affect DVB-T (Freeview), but may affect satellite to a lesser extent, as its possible to receive channels from different regions with satellite technology. It is also possible to do that to a small extent with Freeview by looking at adjacent regions, though there's no way that someone in the south of England could receive a channel which is limited to the north of Scotland. That option might be possible with satellite broadcasts.

It is possible, though by no means certain, that "zero terrestrial digital", tested by connecting a simple aerial to a TV might actually be OK, if a good aerial, with suitable booster, and proper installation is used - but of course if the indications are poor to start with then one might be reluctant to try, particularly if a satellite option is available. Sometimes one inherits a satellite dish from previous owners, and that can be brought back into life (even if it's not strictly the "correct" dish), and that's what I did in one of the two houses mentioned. I replaced the original LNB, which may have been faulty, with a new one, and that brought the satellite into operation very easily. Since the house is a bungalow I didn't even have to climb on the roof!

[dave2010]

Lost 3 HD channels here in nth London that we used to receive without a problem, no idea why ?. Get some wonderful Radio 3, 2, FM broadcast though through a modest Rotel tuner despite not having a dedicated FM aerial (just ordinary tv rooftop one), so well pleased with that.Did you do a rescan after you lost the channels? Sometimes the broadcasters shift things around, and a reinstall fixes the issue.

Are you using a splitter for the signal, if you are using the TV aerial for the FM? We used to have a house in the Chilterns, and we ended up with two aerials - one for TV, one for FM. The fitter used a diplexer to feed the signals down one cable, and I assume a corresponding device at the bottom of the cable. Perhaps however, all that is required at the down end is a splitter - as maybe the individual devices (TVs, radios etc.) will sort out the signals they need - not sure about this. It was worth having the FM aerial, as without it the radio was pretty poor. With it the reception was pretty good, though not outstanding. A good FM aerial can push the hiss level down to almost inaudible levels - though that's probably irrelevant for most people now with DAB or internet services.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Way-Port-Connector-Diplexer-Satellite/dp/B00L4D25B4 Diplexer example.

[spm]

In my last house freeview signal was poor, but a signal amplifier worked very well. I found also that putting the amplifier in the loft (I had power in the loft) close to the aerial was better than simply having it next to the tv but in both instances there was a marked improvement in being able to receive stations.

[Pieoftheday]

I use an indoor digital Arial for the bedroom tv,it works but takes 10 to 15 seconds to change channels .ZZzzź...

[dave2010]

Yep, I put one of these loft jobbies in the rafters of our (single storey) garage, works a treat for £16.99 .. but no HD:

https://media.screwfix.com/is/image//ae235?src=ae235/33455_P&$prodImageMedium$

https://www.screwfix.com/p/labgear-yagi-mast-uhf-wideband-aerial/33455I have now bought one of these sicnal detectors -
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fringe-fringetvsat-Electronics-Satellite-Finder/dp/B00LGWN87S/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1547558688&sr=1-2&keywords=Fringe+TV
and it has just managed to sniff out a signal - right at the bottom of the scale. I noticed the aerials in Screwfix, and also Wickes at a very similar price. The Wickes one includes a 4G filter. Both seem to be log aerials, though the Wickes one has fancy shaped elements - similar to the one I had previously - and that one was pretty good IIRC.

https://www.wickes.co.uk/Ross-48-Element-Outdoor-Indoor-Aerial-with-4G-Filter/p/164573

I don't think either come with fittings. Screwfix do have clamps and a mast for fitting available fairly cheaply.

Screwfix also do a Triboom aerial which has better gain, though I think Amazon has a very similar (same?) model at a lower price.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/labgear-tri-boom-mast-digital-aerial/60215

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=labgear+triboom

Looking at the specs of the aerials, it looks as though the gain for the cheapest is claimed to be around 13 dBi, whereas the more expensive Triboom models are at 16.5dBi. So I suppose the next question is "is it worth paying a lot more for an extra 3.5dB?". I'm guessing I might need to put a booster amp in anyway - or indeed I may already have one in the loft from a previous owner.

Doing a neat job would really require proper fixing, but I guess I could check things out very quickly without the fixings. My gut feeling is that I should be able to find out quite quickly whether this is going to work at all using either the Screwfix or the Wickes offerings.

With our now old (but still very usable) Sharp 42 inch TV we still get a very good picture when viewed from the front. However, when used directly connected to an aerial (usually we go via a PVR or nowadays an internet box) the picture quality is significantly higher with an extra amplifier booster put in the input line. That was indeed something mentioned in the original review of our 42 inch set - that it could have done a better job with the input signals. Different TVs seem to have different sensitivity - and that one is relatively poor.

I notice though that you didn't manage to get HD with the cheap aerial [maybe you should try an amp to boost the signal - might pull those in], so perhaps it is worth paying for the extra 3.5 dB!

Are there any other aerials which are good for loft mounting? I had one from Wickes before - may still have it somewhere perhaps in the garage - it was pretty good, but ultimately the signal available is a limiting factor. If signal strength is a problem, then cable runs can also affect the outcome at the TV end, though previously I found that using better cable didn't really make much difference. Given the current wiring in this house, I think the approach is to see if I can detect any signal in the loft, then think about cabling later. There is already cable installed, but perhaps not the best.

PS: How did you get the image of the aerial into your posting? Did you link directly to a vendor site, or did you copy and put it up on a photo site, such as imgur?