How good should a phono stage be?

[stairpost]

Evenin' all,

The only upgrade I might consider this year is a phono stage. It's more of an 'I wonder' thought at the moment rather than an earnest plan to make a purchase. So my question is, how good does a phono stage need to be to make a worthwhile difference? What sort of budget would I realistically be looking at?

My kit should be in my signature.

Cheers

Rich.

[RobbieGong]

From what I've read, a phono stage can make a very big difference

Thing is like a lot in hi-fi it can be a bit of a mine field in terms of options

I like things simple (not a boxes man), hence I've gone the 'excellent intergrated' amp with 'excellent built in phono stage' route, with very excellent results :D

I'm sure some good recommendations and advice will start to come through :)

[tlscapital]

Preamps for me should always be adjustable on gains, loads and impedance to accommodate better any cartridges. No models of cartridges are exactly the same. Some even qualify as "exotic". Such feature is more and more common on the better end preamps. Then they must the external PSU with long power cords on both ends and a good shielded boxing.

Now I do tend to prefer the 'solid state' amplification (preamp as well) since when they are well build with better end components, they give more dynamic and clarity allowing more depth as well. This gives them still some "organic" feel I have find. Unlike the valve/tube ones that generally qualifies as "warm" (= slow IMO) and "round" (= muffled IMO). That some do seek.

Now such good to decent preamps, at entry level (like mine) are selling from $300 upwards. For about $1.000 you start to get some of the better end ones with (am aiming for one) more depth I understand. Now to truly benefit from that difference in sound, between an entry level preamp and a "better" one, your amp and speakers will have to be able to let that shine through.

The differences after those preamps price range should take you even further in depth and on sound separation, but I am yet to hear the difference with those in real time and place. Yet I am not convince that it should prove necessary or a real worthwhile upgrade in all phono situation, nor to everybody's earbuds and finally to any kind of records and all genre of music if ever...

[WESTLOWER]

Hmmm... Imho there are many examples of dynamic valve phono stages that can deliver it all.
I certainly wouldn’t discount valve phono amps as warm or lacking dynamics and would get to listen to as many phono amps as possible if you want to achieve the best sound for your pound £...

[bob4333]

It all depends on what "flavour" of sound you are looking for, as they all have different characteristics, but don't rule out valves - they're certainly not the high maintenance nuisance some would have you believe and they're definitely not lacking in dynamic range. And for "warm" don't misinterpret this as "soft" or "slow".

I've had both solid state and valve based phono stages. Buying an Icon Audio PS 1 maybe 10 or 12 years ago with both MM and MC inputs (used on ebay for about £500) was a vinyl changing experience for me. Easily bettered all of the solid state stages I'd owned up to then including Tri Chord Diablo, PS Audio and a few others. The PS 1 was so capable I later bought it's bigger brother and haven't looked back. They crop up in many magazine reviewer's reference systems.

I get a warmish but crisp performance from the PS3, lots of detail and sharp attack and decay. Bass lines and instrument placing in music are a delight to follow.

The direct answer to your question is that yes, they can make an incredible difference to what you hear - probably even more so than changing to a different type or make of cartridge.

But it all depends on what you're looking for and what appeals to your ears. It's one area where you can't dodge the auditioning process and any self respecting dealer should be happy to give you a unit to try at home. I know the well respected Graham Slee used to do a postal loan scheme if solid state takes your interest.

[oldius]

Back in the day, when vinyl was king, an integrated amp with a poor phono stage was simply a poor amplifier, because that was the source of choice. As time went on, and digital took over, manufacturers produced line level only and then began to make separate phono stages. It makes sense from a profit persepective and it could always be marketed on quality and demand grounds.

I owned and listened to a number of high-end phono stages, with excellent results, but then scratched an itch and bought a high-end pre-power vintage amp, with integral phono stage. As a whole, I preferred its sound to my separate phono stage that retailed for £3,600 on its own, and used in conjunction with 15k worth of amplification. That got me questioning the improvements that separate phono stages brought when compared to investing the same amount elsewhere.

I now own two vintage integrated amplifiers that contain phono stages of their own and I do not feel I am missing anything whatsoever. They are both solid state designs and were high end at the end of the 1970's.

The key is the whole system, not the individual components, and I question the merit of separate boxes that do the same job, in value terms. Honestly, investing in speakers and amps will deliver far greater results in my opinion.

[JohnG]

Hi Rich
I have spent the last 18 months travelling around the Country auditioning Phonostages.
Combining Hifi Shows and Bake Offs, I have heard 30+ as well as purchasing Two Models, and supplying a set of critical ears for a recent new build model for a friend.
A Phonostage that I purchased and enjoying the use off, was shown its position in a line up at a Bake Off, it sat comfortably in the
£1000 - 2000 bracket, but was not noticeably being outperformed or Outperforming other models in this price bracket.
This lead me to consider other models, and I took a punt on a model that had my attention for a period of time.
This proved to be a ideal choice for me, in a cost to performance ratio, I have taken this for auditions as it has impressed me, it has also impressed others as well. I dropped it off at a Bake Off that I could not attend, the feed back that it punched above its purchase price and that it showed strengths that surpassed expensive branded models and Hi End DIY models, bolstered my belief in my choice.
There are only a few models I have gained knowledge of, through travelling to hear them, that I would like to hear it against.
There are even fewer models I have gained knowledge of, that I would consider to share the same role or become a replacement.
The point I am trying to make, is that a Phonostage, is a very individual choice, and learning how a choice is going to interface with a system, is going to be a time consuming, if a particular presentation is being sought.
I would fear that certain designs may create a Bass Bloom when using horn loaded speakers, this is a sound effect I dislike, something that I lock onto and find it a detractor when present. I can recall from these experiences, the Soundstage feels restricted as well, as if the boundaries of it are perceivable, I like the wings and the depth of a soundstage to seem endless.
Also a Moving Magnet Cartridge can offer the perception of separated performers in a Soundstage, to a point where a believable imagery is present. I find this a attractive in a replay.
I have felt from a few Phonostages, a Cohesive grouping of performers is being perceived in the Soundstage using MM.
If you can hold back on a purchase, attend a Bake Off or two during the year. I feel you will get a much better idea of performance to cost ratio of a device, if you attend a Bake off where your Turntable and Cartridge was able to be put on after the main event, being played through a Phonostage that captured your attention, then Win + Win.
I encouraged a friend to do a Similar thing with SUT's at a Bake Off earlier this year, he learnt a lot, his Phon' as a result become the performer that aroused the biggest applause of the day. The friend now has two AI SUT's purchased as well.
I think it is a case off, " How good should a Phonostage be for me "
If you would like to know about any Bake Off Venues outside off AoS, PM me.

[Jimbo]

Hi Rich
I have spent the last 18 months travelling around the Country auditioning Phonostages.
Combining Hifi Shows and Bake Offs, I have heard 30+ as well as purchasing Two Models, and supplying a set of critical ears for a recent new build model for a friend.
A Phonostage that I purchased and enjoying the use off, was shown its position in a line up at a Bake Off, it sat comfortably in the
£1000 - 2000 bracket, but was not noticeably being outperformed or Outperforming other models in this price bracket.
This lead me to consider other models, and I took a punt on a model that had my attention for a period of time.
This proved to be a ideal choice for me, in a cost to performance ratio, I have taken this for auditions as it has impressed me, it has also impressed others as well. I dropped it off at a Bake Off that I could not attend, the feed back that it punched above its purchase price and that it showed strengths that surpassed expensive branded models and Hi End DIY models, bolstered my belief in my choice.
There are only a few models I have gained knowledge of, through travelling to hear them, that I would like to hear it against.
There are even fewer models I have gained knowledge of, that I would consider to share the same role or become a replacement.
The point I am trying to make, is that a Phonostage, is a very individual choice, and learning how a choice is going to interface with a system, is going to be a time consuming, if a particular presentation is being sought.
I would fear that certain designs may create a Bass Bloom when using horn loaded speakers, this is a sound effect I dislike, something that I lock onto and find it a detractor when present. I can recall from these experiences, the Soundstage feels restricted as well, as if the boundaries of it are perceivable, I like the wings and the depth of a soundstage to seem endless.
Also a Moving Magnet Cartridge can offer the perception of separated performers in a Soundstage, to a point where a believable imagery is present. I find this a attractive in a replay.
I have felt from a few Phonostages, a Cohesive grouping of performers is being perceived in the Soundstage using MM.
If you can hold back on a purchase, attend a Bake Off or two during the year. I feel you will get a much better idea of performance to cost ratio of a device, if you attend a Bake off where your Turntable and Cartridge was able to be put on after the main event, being played through a Phonostage that captured your attention, then Win + Win.
I encouraged a friend to do a Similar thing with SUT's at a Bake Off earlier this year, he learnt a lot, his Phon' as a result become the performer that aroused the biggest applause of the day. The friend now has two AI SUT's purchased as well.
I think it is a case off, " How good should a Phonostage be for me "
If you would like to know about any Bake Off Venues outside off AoS, PM me.

Well considered post John and Happy New Year. In particular I agree with your point about individual taste and about MM cartridges and their Imaging and soundstage, something i am particularly sensitive too. I don't know if MM do this better than MC but i like what mine does.
I think it is best as you have done to try and listen too as many phono stages both valve and SS as possible and also decide is MC important or are you happy with a good MM.
I also like the 'live' aspect of some phono stages - does it take you to the performance or are you just listening to a recording?

[JohnG]

Happy New Year Jim :wave:

Make a bit of time, put on brew and have a look at the Video posted in my Abstract Chat thread.
It is a pleasant surprise.

[ReggieB]

The simple answer is try one and find out. I'd highly recommend seeing if Firebottle (https://theartofsound.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?96-Firebottle) has a lone unit.

Personally, I think cartridge and phono amp are THE main elements you need to get right in a turntable system. Those two make the biggest difference to the sound IMO. And as with most hi-fi, the only way to get the sound you want is to try a few different ones.

[Bigman80]

The simple answer is try one and find out. I'd highly recommend seeing if Firebottle (https://theartofsound.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?96-Firebottle) has a lone unit.

Personally, I think cartridge and phono amp are THE main elements you need to get right in a turntable system. Those two make the biggest difference to the sound IMO. And as with most hi-fi, the only way to get the sound you want is to try a few different ones.Yup, can't argue that the phonostage can only deliver what's being fed into it. A good front end or TT and Cart will help you get the best results.

Ultimately, the phonostage needs to deliver what the individual is looking for. I recently bought a phonostage that is heard at a bakeoff. It sounded great there but under closer scrutiny, failed to deliver what I wanted, which was insight.

It's all about what you want. Most of the journey JohnG went on will have mainly shown him what he doesn't want and then you end up knowing what will work for him. That's what I did a couple of years back. I listened to everything I could get my hands on. Delved into the design and worked out that the phonostages that employed Feedback, didn't tickle my fancy. There are other things along the way which you start to hear or recognise.

The only way to get to the destination is to take the journey.

[Firebottle]

I have an OTP Mk2 available for loan with no obligation.
This should give you a flavour of what an external phono stage can achieve.

[Nonnegativ]

Nice gear you have gathered :)

As to your question: "How good should a phono stage be?" It depends on how deep you want to "look" into the recording/music, your taste and wallet/ strategy.

I have been through a lot af phonestages over the years and have ended up with a Phonostage which is generally considered amoung the top 5 available. Phonostages can make a HUGE difference, but the silly prices of today (when new) is a showstopper for most - myself included.

So I advise you to have a look at the used marked and here are some affordable gems which I could happily live with:

NLE 17/ DACT CT100: When released there were serious doubts whether a Riaa could be any better in the future - the constructor actually made a NLE 22 which was better before going into retirement. A NLE 17 goes for 350 pounds and up on the used marked.

Holfi battriaa/batt2riaa/super battriaa: Made by a fantastic constructor and some of the most musically Riaa's out there. Sadly Holfi doesn't exist anymore, but I often hear that the constructor (Peter Holstein living in DK) still supports his products. A used Holfi Riaa starts at
600 pounds.

For both these phonestages one advise: Grab em fast - there are many takers out there and you can always flip them on if they don't live up to your expectations.

[tlscapital]

It all depends on what "flavour" of sound you are looking for, as they all have different characteristics, but don't rule out valves - they're certainly not the high maintenance nuisance some would have you believe and they're definitely not lacking in dynamic range. And for "warm" don't misinterpret this as "soft" or "slow"...

Only presenting my preferences after a real direct comparison afternoon session in a shop with my turntable and some of my records I did years ago. And I was going in with the intention to buy a valve amp... Came out with a solid state amp double the price of that my initial budget. A valve amp/preamp may not 'lack' dynamic, I agree but can't achieve what some of the better build PCB amps can do there. Different beasts on their own both are.

So I presented my preferences and not merely some beliefs that I had still some 20 years ago. True ! Long time crate digger for records, I have always been in the quest of the proper phono system for my old MONO 45's. Without the funds, knowledge and or the elder advisers around on such phono matters, I struggled for too long with second hand DJ gear and alike prior. Later got my still now amp and preamp and later a MONO cartridge...

So when I quote my preferences, I specify 'IMO' not to be 'judgmental' on others. Understanding that in the pure analog approach, the sound colouration are defined between 'cold' - 'neutral' - 'warm' and by the listeners in general as 'bright' - 'neutral' - 'muffled'. In real live comparison dynamic will only shine through the high frequencies evidently. These are evidently less present in the 'warm' colouration. And I acknowledged and respect that some prefer that.


...The direct answer to your question is that yes, they can make an incredible difference to what you hear - probably even more so than changing to a different type or make of cartridge.

But it all depends on what you're looking for and what appeals to your ears. It's one area where you can't dodge the auditioning process and any self respecting dealer should be happy to give you a unit to try at home. I know the well respected Graham Slee used to do a postal loan scheme if solid state takes your interest.

Indeed, a "poor" preamp can never do justice to whatever phono gear stands before and after it's position of the chain. It's the bit that is way too often overlooked (the integrated amp makes this bit invisible to the eye) and since some sell such minimalistic preamp PCB devices for little bucks, they can seem rather irrelevant for many to invest more than that. And yes, real direct test is the best way to compare any phono gear that suits one's ear best.

Yet the real combo is not so much the amp and preamp but more the cartridge and preamp combo/match that is the key. The specs match for the amp is with the speakers and the turntable with the tonearm logically. That is why an adjustable preamp is no luxury in my experience to accommodate good to better cartridge accordingly and doing so by the ear instead of 'by the book' can prove impressive I have find as well. The preamp is the cartridge revealer !

[AJSki2fly]

Evenin' all,

The only upgrade I might consider this year is a phono stage. It's more of an 'I wonder' thought at the moment rather than an earnest plan to make a purchase. So my question is, how good does a phono stage need to be to make a worthwhile difference? What sort of budget would I realistically be looking at?

My kit should be in my signature.

Cheers

Rich.

In answer to your question directly, as good as you can afford and what sounds best to you in your system. For what it is worth the phono should be as transparent as possible or it will colour audibly what the cartridge is producing, this in its self can imho be misleading as you can then go down the road of changing cartridges to compensate for a characteristics of he phono stage, others who know better than me and are more experienced advise avoiding this.

From a practical point of view I use a LFD MMC phono stage which is well recognised as very transparent, however the current edition of this is not cheap, but I recently reviewed the Renaissance RP02 phono-stage mm/Mc for the manufacturer as they wanted some direct feedback and comparison as I have there monoblock amplifiers and are familiar with my set up. I found the RP02 to be very good and very nearly as good as my £2000 phono stage, but the Renaissance RP02 is 1/3 the cost. They do a loan service so I would try it out if it’s in your price range.

Hope this helps

[Pigmy Pony]

I bought a Yaqin MS-22b phono stage as a temporary measure, and six years later I'm still using it. Although I'm happy with how everything sounds, I can't help wondering just how much the little Yaqin may be holding back. At £110 it cost less than a quarter of what my cartridge cost, so a change is on the cards this year, funds permitting.

I'd love to be able to bring it to a bake-off so I can see how it compares with other kit SQ wise, but I'll have look out for others hosting one as my listening room is on the teeny-tiny side of small.

[Idlewithnodrive]

There are some extremely good lesser known Phono's out there that can happily run SQ wise with the big boys at half the cost.

I am planning to downsize to an integrated amp / phono in the imminent future and my major concern, by a long chalk, is that I will not be able to equal my current valve phono.

[karma67]

i was lucky enough to have a paradise phono stage made,its skinted me this month and ive had a very plain christmas. was it worth it? too bloody right it was!

[Jimbo]

i was lucky enough to have a paradise phono stage made,its skinted me this month and ive had a very plain christmas. was it worth it? too bloody right it was!

The Paradise is one of the best phono stages I have heard Jamie, very wise decision buying that as it is probably an end game piece of kit. Only Phono stage I have heard that beats it was Nick Gorhams but that was I think about £10,000.

To the OP this should be what your aiming at.:)
http://www.longdogaudio.com/project/music-first-audio-reference-mm-phono-amplifier/

[martinjohn308]

I used a Naim 32.5 for over 25 years till I took the plunge about 10 or so years ago and bought the Graham Slee Fanfare phono stage then upgraded to his PSU 1 supply.

At the time I used straight through boards in the 32.5 was it better marginally some recordings I preferred the Naim boards.

I finally took the plunge and bought an Whest Audio 30R which was a leap forward I had this unit for 3 years and I spoke to James Herriot who advised me to upgrade to his 30 RDSE model even with the trade in of the 30R was going to cost me £2.8K !

Then read an article on the Paradise phono stage about 3 years ago by Mark ( YNWAN) and Simon Clark. I got in touch with Simon and ordered a Paradise. I’ve had the unit in my system ever since an amazing phono stage, a keeper. Simon lives in Sheffield and I live near Bexleyheath and he drove down to South Mimms service area to drop off the Paradise.

Simon goes to great lengths in building these phono stages sourcing components matching them and his build quality is second to none. He still makes them to order but sourcing the boards is the headache. Should you be able to get one you won’t be disappointed.

Regards,

Martin

[YNWaN]

The Paradise is one of the best phono stages I have heard Jamie, very wise decision buying that as it is probably an end game piece of kit. Only Phono stage I have heard that beats it was Nick Gorhams but that was I think about £10,000.

To the OP this should be what your aiming at.:)
http://www.longdogaudio.com/project/music-first-audio-reference-mm-phono-amplifier/

I’ve heard Nick’s stage versus a Paradise and preferred the Paradise. The NG had big dynamic swings but I wasn’t so convinced by the micro dynamic - in truth, it didn’t do a great deal for me.

[JohnG]

I’ve heard Nick’s stage versus a Paradise and preferred the Paradise. The NG had big dynamic swings but I wasn’t so convinced by the micro dynamic - in truth, it didn’t do a great deal for me.

Mark words, say it all, his listening experiences, as well as a collection of time served acquired preferences, as to what he perceives as a valuable presentation in a replay, are being fulfilled by a certain type of Device, and as stated, not from a device that persons would usually place as the top of their wish list, if hype only is followed as a recommendation.
Devices need to be auditioned !
It just goes to show how making a choice of a Phonostage Model, is very individualistic, to steer away from opportunities to make a assessment of a device, to mimic others in their choice, may prove to be a great experience lost for a prospective Phonostage Purchaser .
From my own experiences, certain devices performances are indelible to the memory, once a fully satisfying device is heard, the experience remains deep rooted, even if the device is way beyond a affordable purchase, the measure of what one wishes for is set, the process of elimination of non matching performances from devices becomes very easy.
Then every so often a little gem of a performer turns up, fitting closely to all perceptions and the recognition of earlier experiences come to the fore, reminding one, they are in the right ball park, closer to
their wish. If it is within Budget, then "Voila" Job Done.
The Search is over, all other discussion on such a subject, can go straight over ones head.
" Talk to the Hand, this dudes beyond further persuasion".

[Jimbo]

I’ve heard Nick’s stage versus a Paradise and preferred the Paradise. The NG had big dynamic swings but I wasn’t so convinced by the micro dynamic - in truth, it didn’t do a great deal for me.

But did you hear them back to back with the same material? I heard them both in the same system with the same recording and NG phono was stunning. The Paradise was very good too but i would not say it was better than Nicks.

[Bigman80]

But did you hear them back to back with the same material? I heard them both in the same system with the same recording and NG phono was stunning. The Paradise was very good too but i would not say it was better than Nicks.That's coz were valve phonostage fans Jim.

I haven't heard a SS Phonostage that out performs a valve phonostage.

I've heard SS Phonostages that do some hints better but overall, I always prefer the valve ones because of my taste.

[paulf-2007]

Back in the day, when vinyl was king, an integrated amp with a poor phono stage was simply a poor amplifier, because that was the source of choice. As time went on, and digital took over, manufacturers produced line level only and then began to make separate phono stages. It makes sense from a profit persepective and it could always be marketed on quality and demand grounds.

I owned and listened to a number of high-end phono stages, with excellent results, but then scratched an itch and bought a high-end pre-power vintage amp, with integral phono stage. As a whole, I preferred its sound to my separate phono stage that retailed for £3,600 on its own, and used in conjunction with 15k worth of amplification. That got me questioning the improvements that separate phono stages brought when compared to investing the same amount elsewhere.

I now own two vintage integrated amplifiers that contain phono stages of their own and I do not feel I am missing anything whatsoever. They are both solid state designs and were high end at the end of the 1970's.

The key is the whole system, not the individual components, and I question the merit of separate boxes that do the same job, in value terms. Honestly, investing in speakers and amps will deliver far greater results in my opinion.
I picked up a Sony STR6055 receiver with on board phono stage for £69 and its that good I sold all my valve amps and valve stages. The only valve amp I have now is a Chinese 6P3P modified by John Howes to triode mode, I wouldn't sell it simply because John did it for me for free when I worked at his house and besides I sounds bloody good. Sounded very good into his voxativ ampeggio due speakers....I digress no more

[struth]

still use my emotiva stage. its pretty decent for money. only thing i would realistically change it for now would be a variable gained stage, as im bluetoothing my vinyl a lot and the extra gain would help. not much extra needed mind... a few db probably

[Jimbo]

That's coz were valve phonostage fans Jim.

I haven't heard a SS Phonostage that out performs a valve phonostage.

I've heard SS Phonostages that do some hints better but overall, I always prefer the valve ones because of my taste.

:) Yes we are Oli. Some would say that SS is more accurate but I like the distorted valve sound!:lol:

[Bigman80]

:) Yes we are Oli. Some would say that SS is more accurate but I like the distorted valve sound![emoji38]Yep. Distortion in music to my ears [emoji23]

[YNWaN]

But did you hear them back to back with the same material? I heard them both in the same system with the same recording and NG phono was stunning. The Paradise was very good too but i would not say it was better than Nicks.

Yes, I heard them immediately one after the other with the same music and supporting equipment. The NG unit made a very impressively big sound but I didn’t think it actually hung together as well as some of the cheaper units played on the day.

[Jimbo]

Yes, I heard them immediately one after the other with the same music and supporting equipment. The NG unit made a very impressively big sound but I didn’t think it actually hung together as well as some of the cheaper units played on the day.

Fair enough.

[stairpost]

Thanks to all for your input.

I've decided to follow Jimbo's advice, so I'm selling my hifi and record collection to fund buying the Music first phono amp, it's the only sensible option :lol:

I think that when the time comes to look more seriously at making a purchase, I'd be silly not to try a Firebottle at home. And maybe get out and see what else I can have a listen to.

Adding a phono stage would mean my vinyl buying budget being redirected, so it's going to take a bit of thinking about.

Cheers

Rich.

[Jimbo]

Thanks to all for your input.

I've decided to follow Jimbo's advice, so I'm selling my hifi and record collection to fund buying the Music first phono amp, it's the only sensible option :lol:

I think that when the time comes to look more seriously at making a purchase, I'd be silly not to try a Firebottle at home. And maybe get out and see what else I can have a listen to.

Adding a phono stage would mean my vinyl buying budget being redirected, so it's going to take a bit of thinking about.

Cheers

Rich.

:lol: I would look at either the Firebottle Vivant / Bigbottle phono(when it's finished):)
Or Croft RIAA R and maybe a Paradise. I am sure one of these would definitely tick all your boxes. I recon the Bigbottle would probably be the best bang for bucks!

[YNWaN]

That's coz were valve phonostage fans Jim.

I haven't heard a SS Phonostage that out performs a valve phonostage.

I've heard SS Phonostages that do some hints better but overall, I always prefer the valve ones because of my taste.

Well I have certainly heard SS stages that outperform valve ones and I’ve heard SS ones bettered by valve stages. Things become more complicated still when one considers that some valve stages are actually hybrids that use SS power supplies. The technology used makes less difference than the specific circuit and implementation IMO.

[walpurgis]

Well I have certainly heard SS stages that outperform valve ones and I’ve heard SS ones bettered by valve stages..

Same here.

[goraman]

I am lucky to have owned the best one I have ever heard a simple Audion Silver night using 2x 2269 tubes.
A good Phono amp is critical.
David Chesal got that one right for sure. That and a Sumiko Black bird is all you need.

Not the Silver Night but I don't see that made now. https://www.audion.co.uk/pre-amps/Premier%20MM%20phono.html

[topoxforddoc]

Well I have certainly heard SS stages that outperform valve ones and I’ve heard SS ones bettered by valve stages. Things become more complicated still when one considers that some valve stages are actually hybrids that use SS power supplies. The technology used makes less difference than the specific circuit and implementation IMO.

+1

[Vrajbasi]

Well I have certainly heard SS stages that outperform valve ones and I’ve heard SS ones bettered by valve stages. Things become more complicated still when one considers that some valve stages are actually hybrids that use SS power supplies. The technology used makes less difference than the specific circuit and implementation IMO.

I tottaly agree wisely said, I have heard fantastic valve phono stages and the superb solid state units its the sum of the parts and the implementation that matters you can more certainly pick out a manufacturer who carefully selects parts and listens as most things in hifi nothing is easy.

[Floyddroid]

Reply to thread self removed due to censorship.Very disappointed in AOS here!

[CageyH]

I know the well respected Graham Slee used to do a postal loan scheme if solid state takes your interest.

They still do. It is run through his forum.

[da2222]

A Valab LCR MKIII is worth consideration...incredible detail and silent as a mouse

[chrisph]

A Valab LCR MKIII is worth consideration...incredible detail and silent as a mouse

I have been thinking about purchasing one of these based on the reviews I have read but it does not appear to be available via the ebay site at the moment. I have written to the seller about a month back but not yet received a reply. Hopefully it will become available again soon.

[da2222]

I have been thinking about purchasing one of these based on the reviews I have read but it does not appear to be available via the ebay site at the moment. I have written to the seller about a month back but not yet received a reply. Hopefully it will become available again soon.

Kevin's comms are virtually zero, but he's not the only one unfortunately...

[AJSki2fly]

Kevin's comms are virtually zero, but he's not the only one unfortunately...

LFD MMC the [emoji219] balls as far as I’m concerned. Totally silent, incredibly detailed, you know when a record us good or bad, not cheap but worth every penny


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