View Full Version : Does Your Wife/Partner Like Bass?
Hypnotist
26-12-2018, 23:03
Is it just mine who's hates bass ? every time I think wow listen to that track the wife says whats that muffled sound ? BASS ! Sounds horrible.
If she had her way we would be listening to a cheap radio with a high pitched tinny speaker, with a mono tv.
They just don't seem to get it with quality hifi/surround sound ? must be in their make up ??
Perhaps she is just more critical of bass quality than you are... .. .
walpurgis
26-12-2018, 23:20
Maybe it the bass type she doesn't like.
Rear ported speakers don't work for me. I never got my Dynaudio Contour 1.3 Mk.II's sounding right, just lots of accentuated bass drone (if that makes sense). And they cost me a sight more than any of the big Tannoys I usually opt for, they do good bass slam!
sq225917
26-12-2018, 23:38
Mine's all about the bass.
RobbieGong
26-12-2018, 23:39
Perhaps she is just more critical of bass quality than you are... .. .
:D
Does she work for Linn?
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jandl100
27-12-2018, 06:57
Wifey is not at all keen on deep bass.
She really hates 'subwoofer bass'.
Which is OK with me as it is seldom found in my music choices.
She thinks my system has too much bass.
Which is correct as there is a room resonance bass hump of a few dB that I quite enjoy so leave it unattended to. :eyebrows:
Pigmy Pony
27-12-2018, 12:05
Wifey is not at all keen on deep bass.
She really hates 'subwoofer bass'.
Which is OK with me as it is seldom found in my music choices.
She thinks my system has too much bass.
Which is correct as there is a room resonance bass hump of a few dB that I quite enjoy so leave it unattended to. :eyebrows:
If she says the bass is giving her a headache, it's probably due to the fact that men's brains have a higher mass and so resonate at a lower frequency. :)
Let's face it chaps, we're hobbyists and gear frieaks in addition to hopefully loving the music too. 'We'll' make all manner of excuses for our often shit sounding but blingy stereo's (our rooms usually finish off the cacophony) and our lady? Partners come straight to the point as they couldn't give a stuff about the gear or what it looks like, but often they DO love good music too... Mine was quite happy until we moved here and acquired a bad room for bass (I've discovered :() and has been most vociferous about my speaker shenanigans ever since the active ATC's were sold (there's a moral here I must follow up on in 2019 ;) ).
Maybe the moral is to take our partners to local acoustic music venues regularly so we both get a taste for 'reality' here - the local pub on a jazz night or summat, or a local samba group :D ? Hopefully that'd give both parties an idea of what proper bass should sound like - maybe the sub could be ditched - most are crap with music anyway ime...
There is another solution chaps, let your other half have their own system, it works for me the good lady even has her own listening room as well, she prefers much bigger fuller bass than myself which is why she has four large drivers for the bass in her system.
Bass quality is an interesting thing, many speakers that I have had distorting its dynamic representation.
Many bass waveforms are transient in nature, and then 'tail off' in a slope to zero. But an under BLed, and an underdamped woofer will do two things to alter bass. The former will under excurt, and so not reach the necessary peaks, and the latter will continue the oscillation after the signal has ceased.
This results in an under-represented peak value, and an over represented duration of the note, which combined, is a tendency to 'drone'.
It is for me only recently that I have appreciated this fully with what I currently have, my friend saying there is too much bass, but often there is less as well; my conclusion is that I am getting a more realistic representation of the variations of level with time.
Pigmy Pony
27-12-2018, 13:14
Not sure going to see a band in a pub or wherever will give us an idea what 'proper' bass should sound like, the equipment used is often not much cop, and being surrounded by dozens of bodies will mess with acoustics as well. I've often found the sound at gigs to be quite rough, and it's really the atmosphere that swings it for me, and of course some good trouser-flapping bass. Try to recreate that bass at home, and then you'll get some real complaints.
Pigmy Pony
27-12-2018, 13:21
I'm told that to get a proper 'live' bass that you can feel as well as hear you're going to need big cones that can shift a lot of air, pointing straight at you. Subwoofers are just not going to cut it, not without spending BIG money. This makes sense to me.
Not sure going to see a band in a pub or wherever will give us an idea what 'proper' bass should sound like, .
Very true. Especially if you are listening to a recording where the bass guitar was recorded direct into the desk. I.e most of them.
Starterman
27-12-2018, 17:54
Bass quality is an interesting thing, many speakers that I have had distorting its dynamic representation.
Many bass waveforms are transient in nature, and then 'tail off' in a slope to zero. But an under BLed, and an underdamped woofer will do two things to alter bass. The former will under excurt, and so not reach the necessary peaks, and the latter will continue the oscillation after the signal has ceased.
This results in an under-represented peak value, and an over represented duration of the note, which combined, is a tendency to 'drone'.
It is for me only recently that I have appreciated this fully with what I currently have, my friend saying there is too much bass, but often there is less as well; my conclusion is that I am getting a more realistic representation of the variations of level with time.
Spot on.
Ported speakers are generally a 4th order system at roll off. This means poor transient response - exactly as you describe. Of course if you can tune this group delay to a low enough frequency then the audible effect can be reduced. I think most audiopills are now conditioned to think this "overhung" bass is correct. Their wifes actually know better!!
Hypnotist
27-12-2018, 19:45
Glad I'm not the only one then, my wife likes Tinny Sounds - period
"Ported speakers are generally a 4th order system at roll off. This means poor transient response - exactly as you describe. Of course if you can tune this group delay to a low enough frequency then the audible effect can be reduced. I think most audiopills are now conditioned to think this "overhung" bass is correct. Their wifes actually know better!!"
Yes true, and most speakers are these days ported, with a compromise on transient response. Dr Richard Small sent me a copy of the analysis and synthesis of passive, ('drone cone') design, showing the compromise.
I too, particularly recently have realised that I had conditioned myself to the underdamped overhung bass, (little slam and soggy/plumby), and in retrospect think that many professional systems are better, ATC for eg..
Not big on uncontrolled bass either needs to be tight and not to overpower the rest of music.
I had difficulty finding anything suitable on my budget that fitted my room so built my own full range ones. It worked out very well
fatmarley
27-12-2018, 23:58
I started diy speaker design with sealed boxes because I much prefer the tight, deep (shallow roll-off) bass you get with a sealed speaker, BUT if you want high efficiency then the boxes would have to be MASSIVE or have very limited bass. Scanspeak do small drivers that produce deep bass in a smallish box, but you'd need loads of them to achieve a descent high efficiency design, and they cost a fortune.
There are quite a few reasons why ported speakers can produce a soggy/slow bass. My old 10" 2-way ported speakers would punch you in the chest with super tight bass. They didn't go very deep but it was an experiment to produce a large, efficient speaker that had the punchy bass of a good, small standmount speaker. They were great fun and easily my best design so far --- 12" high efficiency 3-way next. Dynamics, excellent low volume ability and obviously sound quality (flat frequency response) are my goals. They wont go as deep as an equivalent sealed box but that's a compromise i'm willing to take.
Wise not to generalise too much regarding ports. I'd probably agree that at the budget, small speaker level I'd take a sealed box most of the time. But beyond that all bets are off. These JBLs are easily the best passive speaker I've ever heard and the ports are big enough for a badger to get into them:
https://i.imgur.com/ExoNC7T.jpg
Probably fair to say all speakers are a compromise, the point being that we enjoy the music they make, however wrong others may feel it is.
Thankfully we have accommodating ears and brains that smooth out many of the obvious potholes, and love for various musics that impel us to the diverse compromises that make it seem 'right' to us.
Boomy bass is a room issue overwhelmingly, so saying plodding bass is a ported speaker speciality. Yet with classical music it is, to me, a better compromise at socially acceptable volumes than the allegedly more accurate alternative.
So who can tell me which is more 'accurate' to the original musical event given the choice between a dipole at 87dB in room, a ported box speaker at 95db, or a massive sealed box at 110dB, all with the same music playing? *
*excluding those who think louder is by definition better [emoji16]
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Wise not to generalise too much regarding ports. I'd probably agree that at the budget, small speaker level I'd take a sealed box most of the time. But beyond that all bets are off. These JBLs are easily the best passive speaker I've ever heard and the ports are big enough for a badger to get into them:
https://i.imgur.com/ExoNC7T.jpgThey are excellent. The 4367 is better than their much more expensive models. Confusing.
I might get a pair. No really. I might. If I move house next year and the room demands them.
EDIT: let's face it though. They look shit.
Anyway, no, she hated my Martin Logan Descent, now long gone.
The issue appears to be long throw woofers. My main speakers extend to 21 Hz at +/- 0DB in room. That doesn't bother her even with tracks with copious amounts of bass. Why? Very high surface area woofer with low excursion.
Punch deep holes in the air with a long throw sub and she soon complains.
Long throw woofers punch air that is truly room/car 'wall' penetrating.
Bad news for others.
She frequently says 'it is really great that instead of just noise I can now follow the tune in the bass' but she is a bit weird as she loves listening to my systems(s) !!!
This article is pretty good for explaining what is going on, worth reading the whole thing. https://www.stereophile.com/content/basso-profundo-page-4#9Ikso6WfYbZ6cVqU.99
Traditionally, reflex systems have been described as "boomy," yet are often found to provide less power in the low bass than the specifications suggest. Those specifications were based on test-chamber measurements and a rated -3dB rolloff in the bass. However, the important factor turns out to be what happens below rolloff.
The aural sensitivity to changes at low frequencies is great, and we have room gain adding to the available response, helping to counteract the rolloff. A well-damped sealed-box system can have a desirably slow rolloff rate significantly complemented by room gain, thus extending the overall useful response. Below box resonance, the output from a bass-reflex system usually falls rapidly, too quickly for the room boundaries to help out; no low bass is heard.
In addition, the reflex system is likely to have a sharper, squarer response "cover" at rolloff; mild room gain at this frequency can easily turn the corner into an audible lump---the notorious "boom."
Mines likes her's deep and firm...
:bonk:
(Sorry! But it was only a matter of time before someone went there...)
jandl100
28-12-2018, 15:05
Glad I'm not the only one then, my wife likes Tinny Sounds - period
My Mrs definitely couldn't be having with your bk200sub.
Haselsh1
28-12-2018, 18:31
Yeah my other half Sue loves the addition of the new subwoofer. She loves the electronic music as well but prefers stuff like the Mahavishnu Orchestra. Not my kind of thing ;)
Very true. Especially if you are listening to a recording where the bass guitar was recorded direct into the desk. I.e most of them.
I'm talking a local pub playing jazz with an unamplified brass and drum kit! Apologies for not explaining it properly. Back in the summer, our 'carnival procession' had a samba band, a Scots-pipe 'band' and a brass band with big bass drum ;)
Now, not the same as a recorded album I grant you, but to FEEL the pressure of the bass and percussion brought it all back when I had speakers able to so this in-room properly. The huge (by domestic standards) PMC fenestria's do it quite well too - and these things are bloody passive as well - eek!
Most domestic speakers really don't 'do' bass properly and I remain convinced really that you need large drivers to even begin to do this, no matter how these drivers are loaded. sadly, 12" or larger bass units aren't domestically acceptable in 99% of homes and having a separate listening room or rooms is so damned unsociable and 'solitary' in my opinion. Marco once claimed his situation worked as his better half would join him for music sessions, but it doesn't work that way in every case and certainly not mine :(
I'm talking a local pub playing jazz with an unamplified brass and drum kit! Apologies for not explaining it properly. Back in the summer, our 'carnival procession' had a samba band, a Scots-pipe 'band' and a brass band with big bass drum ;)
Now, not the same as a recorded album I grant you, but to FEEL the pressure of the bass and percussion brought it all back when I had speakers able to so this in-room properly. The huge (by domestic standards) PMC fenestria's do it quite well too - and these things are bloody passive as well - eek!
Most domestic speakers really don't 'do' bass properly and I remain convinced really that you need large drivers to even begin to do this, no matter how these drivers are loaded. sadly, 12" or larger bass units aren't domestically acceptable in 99% of homes and having a separate listening room or rooms is so damned unsociable and 'solitary' in my opinion. Marco once claimed his situation worked as his better half would join him for music sessions, but it doesn't work that way in every case and certainly not mine :(
Agree with you about the speakers - to get the depth and the slam you need to move a lot of air very quickly. But with the live band situation you have to take into account that the act of recording it will diminish some of the bass impact you hear and feel live. A recording is unavoidably a degredation of the live event. And high fidelity (in the strictest sense of the term) is trying to be true to the recording of the live event, not the live event itself.
A friend has bought some second hand JBLs originally costing £30k, and they use a 15" woofer going up to a very high frequency, and with a 4" voice coil. They do tight bass.
I used to listen to Don Partridge playing live in our Broad St, and my home speakers never got near the sound of his kick drum, they made it 'woolly'.
jandl100
29-12-2018, 08:08
Anyway, no, she hated my Martin Logan Descent, now long gone.
The issue appears to be long throw woofers. My main speakers extend to 21 Hz at +/- 0DB in room. That doesn't bother her even with tracks with copious amounts of bass. Why? Very high surface area woofer with low excursion.
Punch deep holes in the air with a long throw sub and she soon complains.
Long throw woofers punch air that is truly room/car 'wall' penetrating.
Bad news for others.
Hmm, interesting theory.
To my mind, there is something different about "subwoofer bass", which I find a bit oppressive/impressive and wifey objects to, and maybe that is it.
Hypnotist
29-12-2018, 08:09
When I have the surround sound on a movie my wife keeps asking whats that cracking noise ? Chap walking up the drive on gravel, whats that creaking noise ? key in the castle door opening and so on, she don't like noises. Thats why I said she would be perfectly happy with a black and white mono tv, and a old manual tune radio, music and sounds are not her thing lol
fatmarley
29-12-2018, 08:29
Most domestic speakers really don't 'do' bass properly and I remain convinced really that you need large drivers to even begin to do this, no matter how these drivers are loaded. sadly, 12" or larger bass units aren't domestically acceptable in 99% of homes and having a separate listening room or rooms is so damned unsociable and 'solitary' in my opinion.
Agree. I'd have 18" drivers if I could get away with it.
Haselsh1
29-12-2018, 09:37
You still have to have a room large enough though.
;)
fatmarley
29-12-2018, 10:10
You still have to have a room large enough though.
;)
Yes, large enough to fit them in, and to be able to sit far enough back for the drivers to integrate.
Haselsh1
29-12-2018, 11:29
I don't think they'd make very good nearfield monitors.
Frazeur1
29-12-2018, 13:44
Like Meghan Trainor says, It’s all about that bass.....
dave2010
29-12-2018, 20:22
Anyway, no, she hated my Martin Logan Descent, now long gone.
The issue appears to be long throw woofers. My main speakers extend to 21 Hz at +/- 0DB in room. That doesn't bother her even with tracks with copious amounts of bass. Why? Very high surface area woofer with low excursion.
Punch deep holes in the air with a long throw sub and she soon complains.
Long throw woofers punch air that is truly room/car 'wall' penetrating.
Bad news for others.Interesting theory, though I’m not convinced it’s right.
Sloop John B
30-12-2018, 00:12
https://assets.catawiki.nl/assets/2012/6/6/c/d/0/cd0402f0-921d-012f-8ff0-005056960006.jpg
my good lady wife is not a fan of lager at all :)
.sjb
https://i.imgur.com/PUWOUdO.jpg
Pigmy Pony
30-12-2018, 09:52
What's it all about, Alfie?
It's all about the bass, 'bout the bass, no treble.
jandl100
30-12-2018, 09:58
Yeah, well .... youse guys live in a different musical world to me. :scratch:
Pigmy Pony
30-12-2018, 10:06
Yeah, well .... youse guys live in a different musical world to me. :scratch:
Not really my musical world either, though I sometimes get a glimpse with me big telescope.
i wont be popular but if you listen to a stereo and your impression is one of awesome bass, then there is something amiss with it.:whistle:
Pigmy Pony
30-12-2018, 10:16
No of course it shouldn't be drawing attention to itself - but if my impression was "no bass" then I wouldn't be happy with that either.
Well my Beta bass does draw attention to itself, both because it needs a little adjustment, controls on back, but because it is so different, not bloomy plumby like so many speakers, and tuneful with correctly presented harmonics, and the transient response is incredible.
Amplification plays a big part.
At the start I had thin bass. Weak bass. Bass that got sand kicked in its face at the beach.
Upgraded, got meatier bass.
Upgraded again - less bass! But bass now starts to sound like the thing making it as opposed to just being a bass 'sound'
Upgrade again - bass meaty and sounds like the thing that is making it.
It's a sort of a rollercoaster.
Pigmy Pony
31-12-2018, 08:23
For me it'll be like a roller coaster at Alton Towers where you have to queue all day. After reading about them on this thread, I looked into those JBL 4367's and they look like just the ticket. But first I will need to sell the old speakers, my bike, the car, and my body. Then I will find that my puny SET amp needs changing too, because that roller coaster needs a bigger motor to drag it up the hill.
Oh and get myself a bigger listening room.
With perseverance and money we'll get there eventually, if we don't die first.
Pigmy Pony
31-12-2018, 08:25
And persuade Mrs. P that they're not ugly.
For me it'll be like a roller coaster at Alton Towers where you have to queue all day. After reading about them on this thread, I looked into those JBL 4367's and they look like just the ticket. But first I will need to sell the old speakers, my bike, the car, and my body. Then I will find that my puny SET amp needs changing too, because that roller coaster needs a bigger motor to drag it up the hill.
Oh and get myself a bigger listening room.
With perseverance and money we'll get there eventually, if we don't die first.
The picture I posted is of the 4365 which are 10 grand so you might have to sell Mrs Pony too. Although that would kill two birds with one stone.
Women probably have forums where they complain about men not being able to smell flowers
women are always talking to each other about their flowers;)
Pigmy Pony
31-12-2018, 14:43
women are always talking to each other about their flowers;)
It may seem that way, but sometimes they may be discussing Harry Potter films when they talk about wizards' sleeves. Or the quickest way out of Liverpool when they mention the Mersey tunnel. Or that film starring Jason Statham, Brad Pitt and Vinnie jones. Can't remember its name.
Minstrel SE
03-01-2019, 19:53
I dont understand this because it just has to be a good quality bass relative to the sound.....when the bass goes low it can really enhance the record....Im thinking James Blake off the top of my head or any track where that bass hits 20hz in a more subtle way if I can put it like that.
Im not talking brash thumping bass or some subwoofer units which are often tweaked up far too much. I have PA speakers with 12" drivers...yes they go brash at extremes but at lower levels they are very good. You can have 12" drivers in your home as they dont take up that much more room than a mid sized speaker with stand
The Royd Minstrels put out superb bass for what they are so the bass doesnt even have to come from big drivers to give a feel of satisfaction. The thing with the minstrels is that the bass doesnt feel artificially enhanced which some smaller speakers are guilty of.
Bass is needed and recording tech has got better. Ok some people dont like boom boom dance music but the lower registers in a good pop or classical track really make it.
Even at my budget level I can get a sense of bass done properly. It doesnt have to be overwhelming in a bad way
Mrs Gaz has one of those wedge shaped Pure clock/radio/CD alarms on her bedside table, according to her the only difference between that and my system is that mine is louder.
FFS:doh:
Pigmy Pony
04-01-2019, 07:15
Mrs Gaz has one of those wedge shaped Pure clock/radio/CD alarms on her bedside table, according to her the only difference between that and my system is that mine is louder.
FFS:doh:
Yeah but does yours tell the time?
jandl100
04-01-2019, 07:31
Mrs Gaz has one of those wedge shaped Pure clock/radio/CD alarms on her bedside table, according to her the only difference between that and my system is that mine is louder.
FFS:doh:
At least my Mrs does appreciate the sound of my system.
She says she's been spoiled by my system and that if I snuff it a cheap setup wouldn't be good enough
I'm kind of pleased with that unsolicited review!
At least my Mrs does appreciate the sound of my system.
She says she's been spoiled by my system and that if I snuff it a cheap setup wouldn't be good enough
I'm kind of pleased with that unsolicited review!I take that to mean that when you snuff it she'll get the Xtremes:D:wink:
jandl100
04-01-2019, 08:15
:lol:
No, I don't think she meant it like that.
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