View Full Version : S/PDIF vs USB
After enjoying the FLAC Files played from the Laptop, through a Bluetooth Speaker.
I am now getting curious about hearing the Laptop and FLAC Files played through the main system.
My DAC has a USB and COAX Input, so I believe I can play the FLAC Files straight into the DAC using a USB Cable.
Is anybody using the USB Cable option as a interface ?.
How is USB Cable rated as a interface, against the more common mentioned S/PDIF interface ?
Are there any recommendations of Brands to be considered ?
This will be my first venture into digital replay beyond CDP/DAC with a Mapleshade COAX Cable interface.
Another experience to be ventured into, during the long dark evenings.
bronzeage
21-12-2018, 13:03
I use USB, and I think a number of other forum members do as well.
The 'better or not' depends on the particular implementation of a given dac, for me, USB sounded the best.
I tried a few different USB cables out, from the cheapo type you use with a printer, a Belkin and tested a few others out at a dealer.
I settled on the Chord C-Line, as I needed 3M, and it was the best I could get for my budget at the time, and certainly a worthwhile improvement against bog standard or Belkin.
You need to try out with your particular kit, some people never hear a difference.
Clive197
27-12-2018, 18:57
Just goes to show we all have our own opinions. I have just spent the afternoon comparing sp/dif & usb from my Aries G1 to my Qutest dac. With both connected and swapping between the two listening for about 20 min each and doing the exercise 3 times, I came to the conclusion that sp/dif sounded better to my ears.
I’m not saying that this is a definitive conclusion, just mine. It maybe we’ll worth others trying the test.
Spectral Morn
27-12-2018, 19:27
Everything comes down to implementation and in some cases Coax is better than USB, but in others USB is better.
Lawrence001
27-12-2018, 21:24
I might be wrong but as I understand it, at some point in the chain the file based output needs to be converted to S/PDIF for most dacs so there is a converter somewhere along the way. High end devices might have a high quality one built in at either end, but for average equipment anything built in is relatively low quality and you are better off getting an external converter from the USB out to the dac S/PDIF in. This often has other advantages in terms of better power supplies (if not driven off the usb power) and electrical isolation.
Sent from my BLN-L21 using Tapatalk
richard51
30-12-2018, 21:59
I think that with the impossibility of a consensus about that usb versus spdif, all the crux of the matter depend of the implementation of the audio system and last but not least, i know that for sure, of the cleaning and filtering of the electrical grid and lines of the audio system...I use different mineral pieces of rock for that with a success astoundingly audible...It seems that the right minerals act like a kind of passive filtering device for the electro-magnetic field of the line and of the system and of the computer(router included)... Usually people laugh, and i usually does not talk about this anymore...But this forum is always civilized and if my remarks can make some curious spirit to try some experiment of his own with minerals he will be surprized and i will be pleased... It is difficult to be silent about that extraordinary case, and the results are so revolutionary that i dont call that a "tweaks" anymore...By the way i use s-pdif..
Happy new year to all of you...
A year ago, with much lesser reading and philosophies learned.
My thoughts on such a suggestion, that to place different minerals around a HiFi System, would have caused huge amusement, and in keeping with the Thread, "I would have thought somebodies taking the S/PDIF here" :lol:.
Today though things are different, I suppose a analogy would be, I have become the flea, that scaled the hair, leaving behind the security of lower environment, to see what the world outside is offering.
The idea of processing materials such as wire, to re-orientate their molecular structure following manufacture processes is acceptable, and seen as a design that could produce results that surpass a standard process of producing wire.
The idea of Natural Dielectric Sheathing, Isolating Cable from contacting synthetic materials, are practices I do not see as unnecessary.
I see them as designs to be tried, when a system is perceived as being at the end point, trying these designs at the interfaces of devices may just eek out the last bit of synergy.
If your use of crystals has been perceived as a method to eek out that last bit of synergy, then I am pleased you have discovered it.
It might be cheaper than uber expensive cable.
For the curious types, who might be enticed to give it a go,
What crystals types do you use ? How large are the crystals used ? Where do you suggest placing them ?
As a response to the answers offered to my original post, it is now my view that I will need a Eitr interface between Laptop and DAC.
Laptop>USB Cable>Eitr > Digital Coax> DAC.
A device to replace the Laptop will be chosen in 2019, when I have more understanding, at present,
a Kingdel i7 NUC, at less than $400 has a attraction.
What is Eitr?
By the way in addition to optimising your cables (and philosophies?) also focus on optimising the OS on your computer. Lots to do there especially if you are using Windows. Worthwhile improvements to be had. Maybe you already did.
What would u do Ed, pc wise?
Stratmangler
31-12-2018, 09:56
What is Eitr?
Good question - some folk seem to think everyone is telepathic ;)
Could be one of these http://www.schiit.com/products/eitr
Eitr, as I have used the term generic, is a term used for a device that receives a USB Data and cleans up the noise, before it enters the DAC.
Schitt make a device called a Eitr , that is solely used to clean up the USB Data Noise. There are other comparative devices, from other brands.
In my most basic entry set up, I will use a Hard Connector USB Input, to bypass any cable issues, and a Digital Coax Output.
There are devices that can be used to help support the operation of the Eitr/Device, some put additional USB clean up devices into spare USB Ports, and some put this type of device before the Eitr. For example a iFi Micro USB3.0 or Jitterbug USB Upgrade.
I am just attempting to create a replay set up, that will evolve, so some of these methods will be on hold.
I will ask questions as to how to prepare a OS as I get on the journey, as it looks like at present the AudioLinux Software will be the one that I lean towards.
It has taken a while to get to this position of having a simple understanding of devices to use.
The devices to be used are yet to be selected, but a shortlist is coming together.
John, have you considered going down the Raspberry Pi route? Eliminate all the USB and host OS issues, direct ethernet connection between host and RPi, access and playback via browser on the host using moode or similar on the RPi. You can then focus on the RPi as the end point playback device IE: choice of inbuilt top-hat DAC or SPDIF out to your chosen external DAC. Fancy PSU for the RPi at a later date or a more serious reclocking and low noise PSU setup.
Even further down the line, eliminate the host entirely and use direct attached music store for the RPi or go down the Network attached storage route. Just an idea.
Stratmangler
31-12-2018, 10:26
Eitr, as I have used the term generic, is a term used for a device that receives a USB Data and cleans up the noise, before it enters the DAC
Every day is an education and this one is no different :)
I'd never heard that term being used before.
Good question - some folk seem to think everyone is telepathic ;)
Could be one of these http://www.schiit.com/products/eitrHa! I was wondering how a steam powered Norse game helps in audio rendition only to discover It is a load of quality Shiit.
Mind you I would have thought any half decent dac that has USB input will implement all the necessary reclocking and isolating techniques nagating the need of an outboard converter.
@Grant, I'll come back on your question.
§
Stratmangler
31-12-2018, 10:28
John, have you considered going down the Raspberry Pi route? Eliminate all the USB and host OS issues, direct ethernet connection between host and RPi, access and playback via browser on the host using moode or similar on the RPi. You can then focus on the RPi as the end point playback device IE: choice of inbuilt top-hat DAC or SPDIF out to your chosen external DAC. Fancy PSU for the RPi at a later date or a more serious reclocking and low noise PSU setup.
Even further down the line, eliminate the host entirely and use direct attached music store for the RPi or go down the Network attached storage route. Just an idea.
+1
What would u do Ed, pc wise?
There are various optimisers out there such as Audiophile Optimizer (https://www.highend-audiopc.com/audiophile-optimizer), Fidelizer (http://www.fidelizer-audio.com/) and CAD (http://www.computeraudiodesign.com/computer-setup/). Those are just some examples, many more.
Essentially the aim is get to a point where there is minimal hardware and minimal software running.
So in my case I have a dedicated headless PC with no spinning discs (hard or cd), no fans and with as many options at the BIOS level turned off. And then at the operating system level turn off all services that are not required. I use Win10 pro so I use the 'Services' app to turn things off. But for a quick and dirty way of doing things I run Privacy Repairer (https://www.securilla.com/privacy-repairer) which in addition to protecting your privacy also stops loads of background services. Another quick and dirty method is to uninstall loads of unnecessary apps and programs that come as standard with Windows. Use uninstall within ccleaner as the uninstall app within Windows does not allow deletion of some stuff (e.g. xbox). All this gets you 90% of the way.
One of the biggest sonic improvements I experienced was to have music stored on another machine and connected via ethernet. Thus the music rendering machine was freed up from spinning discs, library management and so forth. Another boost was implementing Roon in this server/client model as Roon does all its processing at the Server level so the transport layer to the end point and to the DAC is optimised.
I built a machine some time ago for a friend using Linux which worked well. I may try that again using some of the latest tricks being mentioned.
anyway just some thoughts. as usual ymmv.
There are various optimisers out there such as Audiophile Optimizer (https://www.highend-audiopc.com/audiophile-optimizer), Fidelizer (http://www.fidelizer-audio.com/) and CAD (http://www.computeraudiodesign.com/computer-setup/). Those are just some examples, many more.
Essentially the aim is get to a point where there is minimal hardware and minimal software running.
So in my case I have a dedicated headless PC with no spinning discs (hard or cd), no fans and with as many options at the BIOS level turned off. And then at the operating system level turn off all services that are not required. I use Win10 pro so I use the 'Services' app to turn things off. But for a quick and dirty way of doing things I run Privacy Repairer (https://www.securilla.com/privacy-repairer) which in addition to protecting your privacy also stops loads of background services. Another quick and dirty method is to uninstall loads of unnecessary apps and programs that come as standard with Windows. Use uninstall within ccleaner as the uninstall app within Windows does not allow deletion of some stuff (e.g. xbox). All this gets you 90% of the way.
One of the biggest sonic improvements I experienced was to have music stored on another machine and connected via ethernet. Thus the music rendering machine was freed up from spinning discs, library management and so forth. Another boost was implementing Roon in this server/client model as Roon does all its processing at the Server level so the transport layer to the end point and to the DAC is optimised.
I built a machine some time ago for a friend using Linux which worked well. I may try that again using some of the latest tricks being mentioned.
anyway just some thoughts. as usual ymmv.
thanks Ed; interesting stuff. not sure i have the courage to mess with pc that much. but might try it with an old one first. getting win 10 to talk with each other is hard enough these days.
i have been doing similar by getting my laptop and audirvana to do the work then ethernet it to my rpi's. that works well.
I have been through various 'mental blocks' coming to terms used with all the hardware and software choices, to get to a position, that I can see options to create a digital file replay set up, that will work with my other ambitions.
My situation is such that the replayed files won't be my main music source, that will be the Vinyl Front End.
Those moments will be set aside for those serious non distracted listening sessions.
CD replays are only a recent choice of front end, beginning in 2017, the value that can be had for a small outlay in relation to collecting music, has been a attraction. The CD has certainly gained favor and has become a device that is taken seriously.
Then I started a collection of FLAC Files. To get the most from the CD's and FLAC Files, I added a custom built Valve Regulated/Valve Output DAC in mid 2018. So the CD's are at present very positively improved by the DAC interface. The FLAC Files are waiting in the wings for their treatment.
The route I am considering is one that will end up being a multi functioning set up.
Hence the NUC, for its portability and Software interface capabilities. Music File replays, Movie replays and 4K capability, as the next selection of a device, will also be intended to serve as my low workflow Photo Editing Computer, and 4K is becoming the go to monitor upgrade, with the increased refresh rates in modern 4k TV's, I am sure a IPS Screen 4K TV will soon be available, if it is not already, to meet many basic monitor functions.
I like the idea of the Digital replay, so that the home can be filled with music from a random playback through the second system for hours on end while other tasks take place around the home.
At present, most of the many hours of listening done in the home is through a Laptop > FLAC File/Internet Radio > 5KPlayer ( Previously VLC ) > Bluetooth Speaker.
John, are the the same JohnG who will be having a room at the Wam show in Kegworth? The one with the Argiriadis custom amp and the ESLs?
Yes, that is me, if all goes well I will be at Kegworth.
Cool, I think I read that you may be going for a stacked double pair of ESLs. That and the amp made by Theo should sound pretty awesome. Wall of sound.
The Second Pair of 57's refurbed to the spec I require have not showed up yet.
The single pair I have got, do much to impress, with the latest speaker cables used, they have met their master with the 845's.
The Stacked pair recently on ebay, were the ones I had the pleasure to audition at Xmas 2017.
They were OTEC Treble Panels, I believe OTEC Bass Panels all matched to 0.5db.
The American Black Walnut Custom Built stands alone cost £600.
They were not on sale when I heard them, it was a kind offer from the owner, to invite me over to Oxford to hear them.
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