Attempting to Clean Vinyl Records....

[AJSki2fly]

So having too much time on my hands at present and because I have recently been very frustrated when trying to clean Led Zeppelin II and III records and a couple of others, I had recently been given(I do already have good copies of these), I have been examining and experimenting with record cleaning to try and establish what was going wrong.

Warning - Further reading may bore you to tears or you could be at risk of becoming terminally anal with respect to your record collection. (click the links below for more info)

Firstly, I am aware that many will be using record wash/vacuum machines, but not all of us can afford one, or are able to placate the other half in our lives sufficiently to be able to purchase one. So for a lot of use some manual method is needed if we are to clean our precious vinyl.

Secondly, I have tried many methods and cleaning mixtures, some my own mixes, all with varying results, often with stubborn second hand records I have found it necessary to perform multiple cleans using different products. All a bit trial and error and sometimes not very staisfactory.

Thirdly - I have used a Knosti Disco Antistat cleaner in the past, but found results to be haphazard. However what I did establish was that leaving records to drip dry was not a great idea due to residue being left on the record. I found this out after introducing a rinse cycle into the cleaning process using Distilled Water, and noted an improvement. I then went onto buy an old turntable and a wet/dry vacuum cleaner and modified the vacuum wand so I could vacuum records after each clean in the process. This dramatically improved results, but and there always has to be a but, every now and then I would come across some stubborn records that even though they looked good I could not get rid of back ground noise. I hear you saying, well they are just knackered old records damaged by a poor stylus, my view is that out of 900 records I have found only 2 or 2 have actually been damaged due to this.

The reason I am perserveering with these two Led Zeppelin albums is that they come from the same record collection, I know the owner and she was reasonably careful with her records, in fact out of 64 only 4 have been difficult to clean. What I have ascertained is that they were appreciably dirtier from the outset of cleaning, but I suspect even though played on the same equipment as the others were probably played more and therefore were handled more often and also subject to more smoke, dust etc.


So both the aforementioned records looked on the surface(excuse the pun) to be in relatively good condition, no deep scratches, the odd minor surface mark and possibly on III signs of a globuls (probably snot) near the end of track 1 side 1. So I cleaned both using my normal method of putting record on old turntable apply my cleaning solution rotate disc and use cut down flat emulsion wall pad (very fine hairs to get in grooves). Cleaning fluid is 75% distilled water, 25% Isopropyl Alcohol and 2.5ml of ILFORD ILFOTOLhttps://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINYL-RECORD-CLEANER-RECIPE-PLUS-ILFORD-ILFOTOL-WETTING-AGENT-10ML-ENOUGH-FOR-2L/292848133090?epid=2160692260&hash=item442f1be3e2:g:3toAAOSw8d5ZS-LT:rk:3:pf:0 (in 500ml total mix). Then using my adapted wet/dry vacuum I spin the disk and suck off the liquid. Then I apply distilled H2O to rinse and then vacuum again. However after cleaning there was quite bad background hiss and crackles on both records, so I repeated the cleaning and re-listened and there was minimal improvement what looked like fine dust/dirt marks in the grooves, this only showed up under the LED light I have mounted on my turntable shelf. So after a bit of thought I decided to take the plunge and use some other cleaning product, the reason for this was I new that Sandi who gave me the records used to smoke and I suspected that they were badly contaminated with nicotine.

So at risk of polluting the records with other chemicals I mixed a warm strong solution of Fairy liquid with distilled water (yes I know many say do not use it, but it is the one product that I know will get to the dirt, grease and grim). After an intense clean and vacuum I immediately rinsed with copious amounts of distilled water vacuuming all the time, I did this process twice, I completed the process by using my usual cleaning solution and then examined the record on my turntable under the LED light and yes it now looked pretty clean. So onto the acid test, I put the record on and the snap, crackle, pop had now improved by at least 50%, in fact the lead in was near silent. However one of the records I noticed still had tell tale marks on the edge of the record, why where had it come from, what had touched the record, and then I suddenly realised, I had used a micro fibre cloth to pick it up to avoid my fingers touching the surface. I examined the cloth carefully under the light and there were slight dirt marks, so I had a dirty cloth that looked clean on casual inspection but was actually probably greasy from my handling and had minute dust particles clinging to it.

So what was going on, well I think several things. Firstly my usual solution was unable to break down the old nicotine sheen on the record or any other crap, secondly I was contaminating the record with dirt from brushes and clothes. So what is the answer?

It is here if you can be bothered to read it.https://www.analogplanet.com/content/most-comprehensive-record-cleaning-article-ever-0 I came across this when trying to determine what was happening, it confirms my thoughts and also gives a clear process for cleaning a record. It's pretty obvious really, if you touch your records with anything slightly dirty or greasy you are going to contaminate it, and it will then be noisy, if you put any chemical on it some residue will be left, the trick is to use several reducing any residue each time. Also you need to accept that different contamination of a record will require possibly using a different chemical to break that down and get it off.

What I also ascertained after careful inspection was that my carbon fibre brushhttps://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pro-Ject-Brush-IT-Carbon-Fibre-Record-Brush-Genuine-NEW-Vinyl-Dust-Cleaner/232723292729?hash=item362f63a239:g:Bt0AAOSw5nFaxem e:rk:31:pf:0 used for sweeping dust off records was contaminated with grease and muck, and guess what I had been using it on just cleaned records. Why was it dirty, because like a numpty I had been using it to clean dust off of dirty just purchased records before liquid cleaning 😱, how stupid can you be. I new it was dirty as I soaked the bristles in neat Isopropyl Alcohol and then left to air dry, the fluid became dirty and after I was able carefully separate the bristles using another small brush, before they were sticking together in places along the brush. So if you have one of these, CLEAN it or stop using it.

So whats next:-

1. I have ordered a new carbon fibre brush to be used only on freshly cleaned records, the old one will be used to remove loose dust from records before they are cleaned and I will regularly clean the brush to stop grime/grease build up.

2. I will be ordering some Nitty Gritty https://www.analogueseduction.net/record-cleaning-fluid-rinse/nitty-gritty-first-rv-vinyl-record-pre-cleaner.html as recommended to assess

3. I will be throwing out my current Emulsion Paint Pads https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-PART-HARRIS-TASKMASTERS-PAINT-PADS-SET-PAINT-TRAY-FOR-EMULSION-PAINTING-NO-400/320809852447?epid=1505249675&hash=item4ab1c1de1f:g:Z9oAAOSw~AVYnHOr:rk:5:pf:0 and replacing with new, the pads will be used during the second phase of the cleaning process. I could buy the Orbitrac https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/273574310332 but at the moment I think this may be an unnecessary expense, but if I find I am not satisfied with the results using the Emulsion Pads instead then I may buy one.

4. I will be buying some Lint Free Cotton Padshttps://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/900pcs-Cosmetic-Lint-Free-Cotton-Wool-Pads-Face-Nails-Clean-Make-Up-Remover-UK/253870935946?hash=item3b1be30f8a:g:VOEAAOSwks1bm8w F:rk:14:pf:0 for the initial cleaning process

5. I want to asses the Nitty Gritty fluid and other fluids effectiveness and I will use the cleaning process described. I have 4 records with very similar levels of surface noise and I will use these to test the process and using different fluids in phase one of cleaning. As a control I will use Distilled H2O only in phase one and two. For the other 3 records I will use in phase 1 my usual Cleaning fluid mix as above for one record, L’Art Du Son cleaning mix on another, and Distilled Water on another all 3 will be be washed in phase 2 with my usual cleaning fluid mix (75% distilled water, 25% Isopropyl Alcohol and 2.5ml of ILFORD ILFOTOL (in 500ml total mix)).

6. I will be wearing Nitrile Gloves throughout the cleaning process to minimise possible contamination from me, and all cleaning emulsion pads used will be washed thoroughly before and after use with Isopropyl Alchohol.


I will report back on results and hopefully a more successful record clean.

[Jimbo]

I have a fair bit of experience cleaning records Adrian and use a VPI 16.5 RCm vacuum clean machine. I have tried every combination of liquid going including IPA and distilled water etc, i have found the Art d sol cleaning fluid to be good and slightly better than the IPA / Kodac / distilled water solution.

However no matter what chemical solution you use when you remove the liquid either via suction and vacuum or air drying or whatever you are generally always left with some static. I have adjusted my process to including more cleans over a long period and different distilled water wash intervals but never been able to remove all static. Once it is locked in it causes those clicks and pops even though you may have removed all the dirt.

So in order to remove the final bit of static i have used a carbon fibre brush - FAIL! Do not use this actually adds static. I use Nagaoko record sleeves - these help over a long period of time.

The best device I have now found only recently that can remove the last bit of static is a Antistat record gun. This has been excellent and I can now get records 95% click and pop free.

[AJSki2fly]

I have a fair bit of experience cleaning records Adrian and use a VPI 16.5 RCm vacuum clean machine. I have tried every combination of liquid going including IPA and distilled water etc, i have found the Art d sol cleaning fluid to be good and slightly better than the IPA / Kodac / distilled water solution.

However no matter what chemical solution you use when you remove the liquid either via suction and vacuum or air drying or whatever you are generally always left with some static. I have adjusted my process to including more cleans over a long period and different distilled water wash intervals but never been able to remove all static. Once it is locked in it causes those clicks and pops even though you may have removed all the dirt.

So in order to remove the final bit of static i have used a carbon fibre brush - FAIL! Do not use this actually adds static. I use Nagaoko record sleeves - these help over a long period of time.

The best device I have now found only recently that can remove the last bit of static is a Antistat record gun. This has been excellent and I can now get records 95% click and pop free.

Thanks for your advice James, I would concur with your view, it is not an easy process. I am hoping that the Nitty Gritty might give more consistent results with more records of varying degrees of dirtiness, I can hope at least. All the reviews of it are pretty positive, so maybe it has the right ingredients to do a good job, we shall see. The noise I am referring to on these two records is definitely not static IMO, as I have other records that have been cleaned in exactly the same way and are virtually silent.

I have also found that more cleans and taking longer does improve matters, as does using a variety or cleaning fluids in cases and being careful to rinse after every application of a cleaning product with distilled water. I have not had what I would call a static issue after cleaning, which is why I had thus far held off from purchasing a Zerostat. I agree they are very effective a good friend of mine has one and has found it pretty good. I minimise static by using a https://www.analogueseduction.net/record-cleaning-arms/analogue-studio-anti-static-record-cleaning-arm.html which is earthed and it definitely removes and stops static build up, maybe worth a try.

[YNWaN]

I’ve got all the gear to do ultrasonic bath cleaning of my records, including the cleaning solution. Despite having it for months now I still can’t be bothered to actually do it...

[AJSki2fly]

I’ve got all the gear to do ultrasonic bath cleaning of my records, including the cleaning solution. Despite having it for months now I still can’t be bothered to actually do it...

Myself and a friend had been considering buying the gear between us and sharing it, but not sure how effective it is or if it could possible damage records if frequency/power is too high.

[alphaGT]

I use a Pro-Ject VC-S vacuum machine, with amazing results. I cheat and use the MoFi Super Record Wash, and it does a good job. I too have found that excessively soiled Records May require several cleanings before they reach nirvana. And records with visible crud in the grooves, I use an Enzyme formula, I spread it on the record, basically just keeping the record covered, no hard scrubbing, and let it stay wet for several minutes. Once it has had time to soak for 5 or 10 minutes then I use the scrub brush, vacuum. And then a rinse wash with the standard fluid. And I also buy the replacement covers for the record brushes, and replace them when it seems appropriate, but not too often really. Vinyl sleeves are a must! I’ve stuck perfectly cleaned records into paper sleeves and was shocked at the instant contamination. If you thoroughly wash your hands before handling records it should be enough to keep from soiling them. I do my best to never touch the surfaces, only the edges, an old habit I guess.

Russell

[tapid]

Whats paper sleeves v vinyl sleeves thingy ?. Sorry for ignorance.

[struth]

inner sleeves i think..

[tapid]

inner sleeves i think..
Yeah, inner sleeves Russeli talking about but I thought all inners were papery type ?. Hope to buy R.C.M myself so interested in subject.

[struth]

these are the mofi ones.. expensive but top quality... https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mobile-Fidelity-Original-Master-Sleeves/dp/B001LQSFKY/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1545214144&sr=8-3&keywords=vinyl+inner+sleeves

plenty others that are cheaper tho. you also get paper ones that have vinyl/poly linings. paper always leaves a bit of detritus and also can leave paper scratches on vinyl record...then there is the static build up with paper

[tapid]

Useful. Thanks Grant

[rmcin626]

I’m thinking of obtaining an RCM, so interested in all the comments

[fiddlemaker]

Myself and a friend had been considering buying the gear between us and sharing it, but not sure how effective it is or if it could possible damage records if frequency/power is too high.

I bought mine from a guy called Tim on the WAM forum, who'd put a lot of thought/research into optimum power/frequency. It works very well and I've encountered no evidence whatsoever of damage or deterioration to records. The only downside I can see is that if you just leave records to air dry you can sometimes have some contamination left behind. This has only happened to me a couple of times, but I guess the ideal solution would be to use 2 machines, an ultrasonic followed by a vacuum clean/dry.
The ultrasonic cleaner really comes into its own with very dirty records, and has mede several charity shop basket cases perfectly playable.

[AJSki2fly]

I bought mine from a guy called Tim on the WAM forum, who'd put a lot of thought/research into optimum power/frequency. It works very well and I've encountered no evidence whatsoever of damage or deterioration to records. The only downside I can see is that if you just leave records to air dry you can sometimes have some contamination left behind. This has only happened to me a couple of times, but I guess the ideal solution would be to use 2 machines, an ultrasonic followed by a vacuum clean/dry.
The ultrasonic cleaner really comes into its own with very dirty records, and has mede several charity shop basket cases perfectly playable.

That's very useful information makes me feel a bit more comfortable giving it a go. We came across one for a reasonable price that has adjustable power/frequency and also is heated with adjustable setting, I think it takes up to 5 records. I will have to chat with my friend.

[alphaGT]

these are the mofi ones.. expensive but top quality... https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mobile-Fidelity-Original-Master-Sleeves/dp/B001LQSFKY/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1545214144&sr=8-3&keywords=vinyl+inner+sleeves

plenty others that are cheaper tho. you also get paper ones that have vinyl/poly linings. paper always leaves a bit of detritus and also can leave paper scratches on vinyl record...then there is the static build up with paper

Yes I use the MoFi inner sleeves, they aren’t the cheapest. But are thick enough to keep their shape while stuffing them into an album cover. Actually I got a kit when I bought an RCM, that had the Super Record Wash fluid, the MoFi scrubber brush, and these sleeves. So, it was kind of by chance that I got this brand, but I’ve been pleased with them.

Russell

[fiddlemaker]

That's very useful information makes me feel a bit more comfortable giving it a go. We came across one for a reasonable price that has adjustable power/frequency and also is heated with adjustable setting, I think it takes up to 5 records. I will have to chat with my friend.

Might be worth contacting Tim (user name "spider") on the wam forum. The unit he sells is very well thought out, although it only does one record at a time.

[Jac Hawk]

I’ve got all the gear to do ultrasonic bath cleaning of my records, including the cleaning solution. Despite having it for months now I still can’t be bothered to actually do it...

I also have an ultrasonic bath and fan drying system that i bought from ebay as a vinyl cleaning kit, i use the distilled water, IPA, Ifotol mix and find that it does a decent job on most records, i think some of the problems i've found with certain records being noisy even after a cleaning cycle is more to do with the vinyl, for instance i have an original pressing of Elton John "Captain Fantastic" i inherited it from my dad (i was only 6 when it was released) it's as noisy as hell so i cleaned it and it made a difference but not as good as i expected, so since the original clean i've bought 3 more copies of the album in an attempt to get a good one, they all sound the same, this got me thinking, i've got other LP's from that era and earlier that have cleaned up like new, my dad was quite anal with his vinyl, he handled and stored it correctly, so why is this LP so bad and why are all the 1975 / 76 pressings of this album in much the same state, can it be that i've just be unlucky with all the copies i've bought, my feeling is that it might be the particular vinyl or batch of vinyl used for these pressings?

[AJSki2fly]

i've got other LP's from that era and earlier that have cleaned up like new, my dad was quite anal with his vinyl, he handled and stored it correctly, so why is this LP so bad and why are all the 1975 / 76 pressings of this album in much the same state, can it be that i've just be unlucky with all the copies i've bought, my feeling is that it might be the particular vinyl or batch of vinyl used for these pressings?

I would agree that this can sometimes be the issue with some records production runs, poor control of quality of the process and/or the vinyl, or a run that is extended too far. I came across this very issue with a copy of Genesis - and Then There Were Three, a challenging pressing anyway as it is well over the optimum 22 minutes each side. The first copy I had came fro ma long run and I presume towards the end or possibly poor vinyl and it was noisy and distorted in in parts. I purchased a Canadian pressing from CA which was a small run and the difference was like chalk and cheese.

All these variances can make cleaning records a torturous process.:doh:

[Oddball]

Just my silly 2 pennyworth!

I have a noisy copy of Then there were 3 too- hmmm

I buck the trend by washing my records in the sink . Dried on dirt needs a good soaking in my opinion ,and I wash the record in the sink in one of my Knosti baths!
I dont use any of my record cleaning mix fluid to start with - just filtered (preferably) hot water and a wool wash soap liquid . Its preferable to leave them for a minute or 2 out of the bath and go again .
usually theres loads of hottish water and loads of soap , so changing it frequently is the way to go !
Then I rinse them with plain water , and then into my second bath with the proper solution in it!

Agree about the letting them drip dry not good , you can sometimes see a faint line of stuff in that bottom area ! Vacuum good

Sorry ,it might sound tight ,but its the way I have done it :eyebrows:

[AJSki2fly]

Just my silly 2 pennyworth!

I have a noisy copy of Then there were 3 too- hmmm

I buck the trend by washing my records in the sink . Dried on dirt needs a good soaking in my opinion ,and I wash the record in the sink in one of my Knosti baths!
I dont use any of my record cleaning mix fluid to start with - just filtered (preferably) hot water and a wool wash soap liquid . Its preferable to leave them for a minute or 2 out of the bath and go again .
usually theres loads of hottish water and loads of soap , so changing it frequently is the way to go !
Then I rinse them with plain water , and then into my second bath with the proper solution in it!

Agree about the letting them drip dry not good , you can sometimes see a faint line of stuff in that bottom area ! Vacuum good

Sorry ,it might sound tight ,but its the way I have done it :eyebrows:

I don't think it's tight at all. I think that whatever you put on a record there is a risk of leaving some residue behind, the key IMO is to rinse the record as much as possible with distilled water at the end of whatever process you follow and then to vacuum off. An as you say some records are stubborn to get clean due to the contamination that they have been subjected to over many years.

[sbank]

Here's the best comprehensive discussion including recommendations for a moderately inexpensive(it's all relative!) approach to ultrasonic cleaning that has been very effective for me and a number of friends. The author, Rush Paul, is a very discerning audiophile who doesn't make suggestions lightly. As a cost saving measure vs. using a vacuum cleaning machine for the rinsing, I built a cheap manual vacuuming station which is also detailed in the discussion thread with pics on my system page.
I think Jac bought the same or similar pump/filtering to allow you to clean 50-60 LPs before needing to change out the fluids in the tank.
I've been using this combo of US cleaning and rinse/vacuum for a couple of years and it strongly beats the VPI machine I used before in concert with most of the commercially available cleaning fluids, the best of which was the 4 step process from Walker Audio which includes enzyme powder that you activate a batch-at-a-time for very stubborn old records.

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/rushton-s-diy-approach-to-ultrasonic-record-cleaning-published-by-posit

[AJSki2fly]

Here's the best comprehensive discussion including recommendations for a moderately inexpensive(it's all relative!) approach to ultrasonic cleaning that has been very effective for me and a number of friends. The author, Rush Paul, is a very discerning audiophile who doesn't make suggestions lightly. As a cost saving measure vs. using a vacuum cleaning machine for the rinsing, I built a cheap manual vacuuming station which is also detailed in the discussion thread with pics on my system page.
I think Jac bought the same or similar pump/filtering to allow you to clean 50-60 LPs before needing to change out the fluids in the tank.
I've been using this combo of US cleaning and rinse/vacuum for a couple of years and it strongly beats the VPI machine I used before in concert with most of the commercially available cleaning fluids, the best of which was the 4 step process from Walker Audio which includes enzyme powder that you activate a batch-at-a-time for very stubborn old records.

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/rushton-s-diy-approach-to-ultrasonic-record-cleaning-published-by-posit

Spencer, thank you very much for this info, it is very helpful and as I suspected the cleaning products/chemical and the combination used is very important, as is the rinsing of the records. I will look into obtaining what is required and trying this process out.

[hifistokie123]

Well chaps, it probably says much about me but I have found the whole thread fascinating.
I use a solution from Vinyl Shelter and a simple old Knosti.
Works pretty well in truth but plenty of info here to think about.

I am listening to an old copy of "Feelin Alright" by Joe Cocker at the mo,bought for a quid last Saturday,cleaned as described and in fairness it sounds great.Just a little hint of static on the quiet start to "With a little help from my friends".
Might try a gun at some point.

Anyway,thanks and "Merry Christmas" to all.

(I must try to check in here more often :stalks:).

[fiddlemaker]

Here's the best comprehensive discussion including recommendations for a moderately inexpensive(it's all relative!) approach to ultrasonic cleaning that has been very effective for me and a number of friends. The author, Rush Paul, is a very discerning audiophile who doesn't make suggestions lightly. As a cost saving measure vs. using a vacuum cleaning machine for the rinsing, I built a cheap manual vacuuming station which is also detailed in the discussion thread with pics on my system page.
I think Jac bought the same or similar pump/filtering to allow you to clean 50-60 LPs before needing to change out the fluids in the tank.
I've been using this combo of US cleaning and rinse/vacuum for a couple of years and it strongly beats the VPI machine I used before in concert with most of the commercially available cleaning fluids, the best of which was the 4 step process from Walker Audio which includes enzyme powder that you activate a batch-at-a-time for very stubborn old records.

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/rushton-s-diy-approach-to-ultrasonic-record-cleaning-published-by-posit

Great info, thanks!
By the way, the most "challenging" record I've ever had to clean has been a brand new, heavyweight vinyl copy of Leonard Cohen's last album. It was absolutely filthy and took 3 ultrasonic cycles to get shiny!

[JohnG]

I discovered this link, when looking at ways to avoid buying a Zerostat.
It might be relevant to removal of static on a Vinyl LP.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPHUAaoHv04

[Mike Reed]

JIMBO mentions static with his 16.5 (or any wet-vac. machine?). There is no static; nor does it come back if the LP is stored in new poly-paper of Nagaoka-type inners. Something's wrong if you get static after a wet-vac.

[Bksabath]

I bought mine from a guy called Tim on the WAM forum, who'd put a lot of thought/research into optimum power/frequency. It works very well and I've encountered no evidence whatsoever of damage or deterioration to records. The only downside I can see is that if you just leave records to air dry you can sometimes have some contamination left behind. This has only happened to me a couple of times, but I guess the ideal solution would be to use 2 machines, an ultrasonic followed by a vacuum clean/dry.
The ultrasonic cleaner really comes into its own with very dirty records, and has mede several charity shop basket cases perfectly playable.

Got mine from Tim as well and agree whit you a vacuum clean dry after and it be perfect I was thinking about getting in touch whit him about it …

[Audio Al]

I tried all sorts during my 40 + years for vinyl love

Ended up with a Loricraft PRC3 and yes it sucks , Its is supposed to , does a great job cant fault it :christmas:

[AJSki2fly]

So having too much time on my hands at present and because I have recently been very frustrated when trying to clean Led Zeppelin II and III records and a couple of others, I had recently been given(I do already have good copies of these), I have been examining and experimenting with record cleaning to try and establish what was going wrong.

Warning - Further reading may bore you to tears or you could be at risk of becoming terminally anal with respect to your record collection. (click the links below for more info)


.......................

So whats next:-

1. I have ordered a new carbon fibre brush to be used only on freshly cleaned records, the old one will be used to remove loose dust from records before they are cleaned and I will regularly clean the brush to stop grime/grease build up.

2. I will be ordering some Nitty Gritty https://www.analogueseduction.net/record-cleaning-fluid-rinse/nitty-gritty-first-rv-vinyl-record-pre-cleaner.html as recommended to assess

3. I will be throwing out my current Emulsion Paint Pads https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-PART-HARRIS-TASKMASTERS-PAINT-PADS-SET-PAINT-TRAY-FOR-EMULSION-PAINTING-NO-400/320809852447?epid=1505249675&hash=item4ab1c1de1f:g:Z9oAAOSw~AVYnHOr:rk:5:pf:0 and replacing with new, the pads will be used during the second phase of the cleaning process. I could buy the Orbitrac https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/273574310332 but at the moment I think this may be an unnecessary expense, but if I find I am not satisfied with the results using the Emulsion Pads instead then I may buy one.

4. I will be buying some Lint Free Cotton Padshttps://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/900pcs-Cosmetic-Lint-Free-Cotton-Wool-Pads-Face-Nails-Clean-Make-Up-Remover-UK/253870935946?hash=item3b1be30f8a:g:VOEAAOSwks1bm8w F:rk:14:pf:0 for the initial cleaning process

5. I want to asses the Nitty Gritty fluid and other fluids effectiveness and I will use the cleaning process described. I have 4 records with very similar levels of surface noise and I will use these to test the process and using different fluids in phase one of cleaning. As a control I will use Distilled H2O only in phase one and two. For the other 3 records I will use in phase 1 my usual Cleaning fluid mix as above for one record, L’Art Du Son cleaning mix on another, and Distilled Water on another all 3 will be be washed in phase 2 with my usual cleaning fluid mix (75% distilled water, 25% Isopropyl Alcohol and 2.5ml of ILFORD ILFOTOL (in 500ml total mix)).

6. I will be wearing Nitrile Gloves throughout the cleaning process to minimise possible contamination from me, and all cleaning emulsion pads used will be washed thoroughly before and after use with Isopropyl Alchohol.


I will report back on results and hopefully a more successful record clean.

So just before Christmas the new Project Carbon Brush and the Nitty Gritty cleaning fluid arrived and the other bits and pieces I already had available.

As I said in point 5 I tested with 4 records that I had already tried cleaning and had very similar background noise issue with the occasional pop, as I have already said I am pretty certain that this is not static as they have already been washed.

The results are as follows.

1 Control of 2 washes using just distilled water, final rinse with distilled water basically this had little improvement IMO, if there was it was minimal.

2 My Cleaning Fluid Mix (75% distilled water, 25% Isopropyl Alcohol and 2.5ml of ILFORD ILFOTOL) phase 1 and 2, and final rinse with distilled water. There was an improvement, which is as I expected although it was not much probably only 10-15% better.

3 L'Art du Son used in phase 1 and 2, and final rinse with distilled water,. Once again a there was an improvement and interestingly this time it was a bit better that in 2, I suspect that the enzyme cleaning agent may be better at freeing up dirt stuck in whatever is left in the grooves.The improvement was a definite 20-25%.

4 Nitty Gritty in Phase 1, follow with distilled water in phase 2 and 3. Now what was interesting here was that when I inspected the cotton pads they were pretty clean, only very slight discolouration which in my mind indicates that the record which had been washed previously at least 4 times with my mix, LArt du Son and bleach, with rinsing was on the surface at least pretty clean. But there was a noticeable improvement on replay, somewhere around 35% with less pops and background noise. So this implies to me that, as others report, there is some chemical agent in the Nitty Gritty that is able to free the crap in the grooves better. Don't get me wrong it was a eureka moment but it was certainly better than the previous 3.

Encouraged by the above I went on the try different combinations but using the Nitty Gritty in phase 1(it would be generally far too expensive to use in phase 2 unless on a very valuable record).

5 I tried Nitty Gritty followed by my mix, then final rinse with distilled water, this gave a similar result to 4.

6 Next Nitty Gritty followed by my L'Art Du Son, then final rinse with distilled water, this gave a better result to 5, improving things by as much as 50% I would say.

7 Final Nitty Gritty followed by my L'Art Du Son, a distilled water rinse, and another wash my mix then final rinse with distilled water, this gave a slightly better result to 6.

Please note the the records were vacuumed after each application of a liquid, the only exception was the Nitty Gritty which evaporates rapidly.

So the final result whilst not perfect was encouraging, I would say that the play back quality in terms of getting rid of pops and background noise had improved by at least 50-60%, the best results being achieved with 6 or 7.

My conclusion is that Nitty Gritty certainly does help in the cleaning process, but it is not the Holy Grail of cleaning fluids. As I have said before I believe that getting a noisy record clean and to play acceptably quietly will vary from record to record dependant upon what it has been subject to it in terms of dirt and nasty sticky substances, obviously you are not going to get rid of noise from scratches or damage caused by damaged styli, if the music/record is that important and it damaged buy another good copy. With cleaning think about it this way, if you spilt red wine on your jumper then you would not expect to squirt some fluid on it give it a rub and presto it is clean and looks as good as new, definitely not it may take several attempts with different cleaning products and more than likely at least one good wash in a machine with an appropriate cleaning product. It is no different with records.

I conclude that you can get a pretty good result but need to be prepared to preserve with a stubborn record. Nitty Gritty is a good starting point, but you may need to clean the record many times to get rid of all the dirt.

[Audio Al]

What soak time did you allow ?

[Jimbo]

JIMBO mentions static with his 16.5 (or any wet-vac. machine?). There is no static; nor does it come back if the LP is stored in new poly-paper of Nagaoka-type inners. Something's wrong if you get static after a wet-vac.

A wet vac machine primarily gets rid of dirt in the grooves and to some extent it does remove some static but if you have the vacuum type that I have when you use the vacuum to remove the excess liquid static can be introduced from the vacuum tube rubbing against the record. Their are soft strips on the tube to prevent the tube damaging the record surface but if you run it for too many revolutions to dry the record surface you will cause some static build up.
This is why I would recommend a Zero stat gun to be used afterwards.

I have been cleaning records a long time and this has been the best solution for removing static that I have found.

[Jimbo]

Must try some of that Nitty gritty solution Adrian as it seems to have worked well in combination with the other stuff?

[struth]

I need to start zero-statting myself again :doh: at this time of year i become a static magnet. I use my stick against one of my amps to discharge it before i can touch anything that is earthed or i get a crack. you can see the spark off the stick :eek:

[Jimbo]

I need to start zero-statting myself again :doh: at this time of year i become a static magnet. I use my stick against one of my amps to discharge it before i can touch anything that is earthed or i get a crack. you can see the spark off the stick :eek:

Almost a Wizard!:)

[Audio Al]

I need to start zero-statting myself again :doh: at this time of year i become a static magnet. I use my stick against one of my amps to discharge it before i can touch anything that is earthed or i get a crack. you can see the spark off the stick :eek:

Bri-Nylon under pants ( if you use them ) or jumpers excellent electrical chargers :)

[Macca]

Almost a Wizard!:)

:lol:

[sbank]

I screwed around like this for years. Audio Intelligent and even more so, Walker Audio (4 step), work marginally better than any of those you mention. However, changing to ultrasonic machine following Rushton method in Positive Feedback & Audiogon is world's apart more effective.
IMHE the comments about why to follow with Zerostat is spot on!

[AJSki2fly]

What soak time did you allow ?

The overall clean time for each record was around 10 minutes, 5 per side, I would say in phase 2 of the clean it was on for about 2 minutes which could be extended for a dirty or stubborn to clean record, but not allowing the liquid to evaporate and dry creating a further problem. If the record required longer soaking then I would result to bath method such as the Knosti leaving it soaking for a least 5 minutes and then rotating for the other half. I have done this in the past when needed.

[Mike Reed]

A wet vac machine primarily gets rid of dirt in the grooves and to some extent it does remove some static but if you have the vacuum type that I have when you use the vacuum to remove the excess liquid static can be introduced from the vacuum tube rubbing against the record. Their are soft strips on the tube to prevent the tube damaging the record surface but if you run it for too many revolutions to dry the record surface you will cause some static build up.
This is why I would recommend a Zero stat gun to be used afterwards.

I have been cleaning records a long time and this has been the best solution for removing static that I have found.

I have the 16.5 and the recommended vac. rate is two revolutions max.. You achieve nothing by overrunning this except to reintroduce static (as you mention). Extra rev's don't dry the record; only evaporation does that. Depending on your fluid (alcohol or other) and ambient temperature, I'd say 1 to 3 min's per side before sleeving.

On countless threads on pfm and in my and friends' experience, there's been no mention of static remaining after a wet-vac. clean but lots of claims that static is banished for very long periods thereafter, assuming good anti-static inner sleeving.

[Jimbo]

I have the 16.5 and the recommended vac. rate is two revolutions max.. You achieve nothing by overrunning this except to reintroduce static (as you mention). Extra rev's don't dry the record; only evaporation does that. Depending on your fluid (alcohol or other) and ambient temperature, I'd say 1 to 3 min's per side before sleeving.

On countless threads on pfm and in my and friends' experience, there's been no mention of static remaining after a wet-vac. clean but lots of claims that static is banished for very long periods thereafter, assuming good anti-static inner sleeving.

Your absolutely right Mike. 2 revs is enough and more does increase static. I must stick to the rule!:)