View Full Version : Which B & O TT for Dad??
Hi
Years after owning the Beogram 1500 system, my father is looking to get back into vinyl and is considering the Audio Technia AT-LP-120-USB to partner with
Edifica R1280T Speakers. While undoubtedly a convenient choice and easy set up, I suspect he may be rather underwhelmed by these modern counterparts. Given his previous experience and love of the B&O brand, I was wondering if there are any reliable 2nd hand B & O models out there that you'd recommend that would require little/no fettling... Oh, and an amp and speakers to boot. He'd like to spend a max of £400, all in, is it doable?? Thanks!
I own 3 or 4 B & O decks because I really like the styling, but to be honest they aren't anything special musically and replacement styli are either impossible to find or very overpriced so my advice is look elsewhere and get him something better and more practical for the money. I've no experience with the Audio Technica, or those speakers, but £400 would easily secure you a nice used 1980s amp, speakers and deck with money left over for a new belt and stylus, that should give you a much higher level of performance than a B & O or the new AT deck.
Beobloke
18-12-2018, 12:53
I would disagree and say that some of the vintage B&O decks can perform very well indeed. The problem is the proprietary cartridges, meaning you're relying on having a worn one rebuilt, buying a NOS one of uncertain condition online, or going for B&O's official replacement supplier, Soundsmith, in the USA. Unfortunately, whilst I have yet to try one myself, one or two people I've spoken with reckon that the Soundsmith ones are voiced somewhat differently to the originals and they've not been that impressed.
If you want to go B&O, though, I'd recommend one of the following:
(1) A Beogram 1700/2200/2400 which will take the MMC20S/MMC20E/MMC20EN/MMC20CL range of cartridges. These are not linear tracking, so are less complicated.
(2) A Beogram 1800/2000/5000/RX2 which will take the MMC1-5 series of later cartridges. The RX2 was also designed for non-B&O systems and so has phono plugs on its outputs, rather than the DIN plugs that all the others will use.
My choice would be (2), as I prefer the MMC1-5 cartridges, but option (1) is by no means a poor relation, and the MMC20x series of cartridges tend to be a bit cheaper.
Do be warned, though, this B&O thing is horribly addictive, and if your dad does go down this route, expect to see him eyeing up Beogram 8000s before long...
The B&O MMC20 range of cartridges are some of the best vintage fixed-coil cartridges made. I have several of them and they rival my ADC25s and AKG P8ES in performance.
They are all high compliance devices, so need a low mass arm. Obviously, the arms on the B&O decks ought to be suitable.
The OP has a £400 budget for everything, unless I'm missing some cheap source for styli a B & O stylus could easily blow half of that or all of it and I definitely wouldn't trust a used stylus of unknown provenance, just saying.
Minstrel SE
18-12-2018, 17:33
Ive never seen a B&O turntable anywhere near the best buys at any price. As far as Im concerned that brand is just about the styling and there are much better buys out there
Beobloke
18-12-2018, 18:54
Ive never seen a B&O turntable anywhere near the best buys at any price. As far as Im concerned that brand is just about the styling and there are much better buys out there
It's a common opinion, so you're not alone!
Out of interest, what didn't you like about the models you have heard?
Minstrel SE
20-12-2018, 10:25
It's a common opinion, so you're not alone!
Out of interest, what didn't you like about the models you have heard?
Yes I'm not alone!
Ok then seeing as you are throwing down the gauntlet...when have you ever seen a B&0 turntable recommended over a Rega at the sensible end or a Moon Audio system at the upper end.......When would that be?? What percentage of AOS readers are buying B&O then.. there's you.....and?.........touche :) I dont want to get personal but come on!
You would rather have some bottom of the range B&O for the styling would you?? Im talking sound value for money here.
Pray enlighten me after 40 years of reading the hi fi press...oh and dont harp on about the hi fi press with an agenda
No Im not alone!
Ok then seeing as you are throwing down the gauntlet...when have you ever seen a B&0 turntable recommended over a Rega at the sensible end or a Moon Audio system at the upper end.......When would that be?? What percentage of AOS readers are buying B&O then.. there's you.....and?.........touche :) I dont want to get personal but come on!
You would rather have some bottom of the range B&O for the styling would you?? Im talking ultimate value for money here.
Pray enlighten me after 40 years of reading the hi fi press...oh and dont harp on about the hi fi press because you would also be calling them idiots:(That's a bit strong. I dont think his message was meant to offend in any way whatsoever!
Minstrel SE
20-12-2018, 11:05
That's a bit strong. I dont think his message was meant to offend in any way whatsoever!
Maybe but he has effectively said I havent heard them so am talking rubbish. Im simply saying who else has recommended them? SME etc might as well go home then yeah. Who are you coming out with a bit strong sir....ooooh dear. Each to their own but what I say stands
Think we need to keep calm folks. No personal attacks please. [emoji3]
Minstrel SE
20-12-2018, 11:18
Ok that is understood but surely a forum is about a consensus of opinion or we are ALL going backwards
Lets put a specific B&O turntable up against others at the money and break it down. lets have a poll :)
I have to say that threads like this can take us backwards....do I ignore them or take it on because it gets ridiculous in my opinion...either we are striving for the art of sound or lets just buy something prettier with a lesser sound
Im relating this the original question. we cant have it both ways on the budget mentioned. Both styling and sound quality have to be paid for.. the lower the price...... the bigger the trade off
walpurgis
20-12-2018, 11:25
a forum is about a consensus of opinion
Hardly. There'd be nothing to discuss if that were the case!
Minstrel SE
20-12-2018, 12:06
Hardly. There'd be nothing to discuss if that were the case!
Well you know what I mean...trying to get a consensus of opinion on certain important things....if there is no real direction in hi fi then what are we all aiming at?..70s amps, digital amps, B&O...many are off on their own tangent. Im not saying they can't but they need to be challenged once in a while when discussing sound quality
You know what I am getting at. If b&0 turntables were the be all and end all, it would make things simpler for me.
Everyone gets in a hissy fit...well dont bring blinkered nonsense up on a open forum then. £400 budget ...B&O as a considered buy? utter nonsense!
Everyone gets in a hissy fit...well dont bring blinkered nonsense up on a open forum then. £400 budget ...B&O as a considered buy? utter nonsense!
Utter nonsense?
Only time will tell ... took me about a minute to find this one on eBay ... with a starting price of £199 and no bids (includes speakers too)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bang-Olufsen-B-O-Beocenter-7000-Tape-Vinyl-Radio-Remote-Speakers/173692964827?hash=item2870e84fdb:g:yocAAOSwSYdbsSs o:rk:40:pf:0
Looks to be the same vinyl set-up as the 1500 mentioned by the OP ;)
again don't call people's opinions nonsense.. that's very important... its not nonsense, its their valid opinion. just as your opinion put better would be valid. if you dont rate b&o then fine, say so, but don't criticize folks pride and joy because you dont happen to like them.
B&O TT's ive heard were pretty good, witout being great. Carts were top quality, and a lot of R&D went into them. I found them to be inclined to amplify any vibrations personally, but no doubt in their day they were good decks, and still are; that said they wont threaten top decks, bar their looks, but they wont shame your music either.
I have never heard a B&O turntable so I have no axe to grind. I do know that I refused to listen to many products because I was told that other products were so far superior.
In the same way many thought that British hifi was the world's best, through its promotion by the British hifi press, many are now discovering that the statement products of the Japanese hifi industry were outstanding and criminally ignored.
I suspect that there are some products made by B&O that were ignored as being style over substance, that were far from it. I know that my own MS150.2 speakers are a 30Kg lump of SEAS drivers, and the earlier 5000 model featured Celestion drivers. I certainly wish that I had known in my teens what I now know regarding hifi.
Beobloke
20-12-2018, 13:10
Maybe but he has effectively said I havent heard them so am talking rubbish. Im simply saying who else has recommended them? SME etc might as well go home then yeah. Who are you coming out with a bit strong sir....ooooh dear. Each to their own but what I say stands
Firstly, please show me where I suggested you have never heard one? My question was a genuine one - you expressed an opinion that all B&O's turntables are 'style over substance'and I was merely interested to know which models you had heard to formulate this opinion? For example, if it was a Beogram 1000 then I would probably see where you are coming from, as it's not the greatest deck in the world, in my opinion. However, if it was a Beogram 8002 with an MMC1 cartridge then I would have to firmly disagree with you.
As to this comment:
You would rather have some bottom of the range B&O for the styling would you?? Im talking sound value for money here.
Pray enlighten me after 40 years of reading the hi fi press...oh and dont harp on about the hi fi press with an agenda
Maybe you need to buy a few back-issues of the A5 issue of Hi-Fi Choice. I was looking through mine after your original comment about 'best buys' and found Beogram 1700 - "Recommended", Beogram 1800 - "Recommended" and Beogram 8002 - "Recommended", so I'm not sure who you think universally panned them? Yes, there was some dissention about the ultra-light arms and the proprietary cartridges, but this isn't unreasonable.
It is also worth remembering that the above "Recommended" Beogram 1800 cost £115 at the time - only a little more than a Dual CS505-4 and less than a Rega Planar 2! Would I have the Beogram over these two? Hell yes!
You don't like B&O - this is clear and that's fine. But to sweepingly dismiss over 40 years worth of turntable designs encompassing belt drive, direct drive, idler drive, linear tracking, radial tracking and three main ranges of cartridges (some designed by Subir Pramanik - you know; the bloke who gave his name to the Pramanik stylus profile that he invented!) is rather short-sighted, in my opinion.
Oh and finally, regarding this comment:
Everyone gets in a hissy fit...well dont bring blinkered nonsense up on a open forum then. £400 budget ...B&O as a considered buy? utter nonsense!
You must have missed this part of the OP's first post:
Given his previous experience and love of the B&O brand, I was wondering if there are any reliable 2nd hand B & O models out there that you'd recommend that would require little/no fettling...
again don't call people's opinions nonsense.. that's very important... its not nonsense, its their valid opinion. .
Not necessarily, not all opinions are valid - not unless we are going to go down the 'everyone gets a prize' road and if that's the case I'm getting out of the bus now.
It's good to see people getting a bit fired up about something, frankly. :)
walpurgis
20-12-2018, 13:27
Not necessarily, not all opinions are valid
My opinion is always valid...............In my opinion! ;)
For a long time people would dismiss Bang & Olufsen gear a being "just 'Habitat' hi-fi", that is all style over substance. Well they were wrong. B&O designed some world leading equipment that was recognised by reviewers at the time. Even in the '80, Absolute Sound magazine rated the B&O 4000 turntable ahead of the over-feted Linn Sondek.
In my collection I have a B&O 1700 tuner (sister to the 3000 tuner; regarded by some as being one of the best tuners ever designed) as well a several B&O cartridges, the latter I regard as some of the best cartridge designs ever made. Of course all of this is in my opinion.
I will concede that some of B&O's styling was a bit too futuristic and not to my taste, but to dismiss the entire brand because of it is wrong.
spendorman
20-12-2018, 15:36
For a long time people would dismiss Bang & Olufsen gear a being "just 'Habitat' hi-fi", that is all style over substance. Well they were wrong. B&O designed some world leading equipment that was recognised by reviewers at the time. Even in the '80, Absolute Sound magazine rated the B&O 4000 turntable ahead of the over-feted Linn Sondek.
In my collection I have a B&O 1700 tuner (sister to the 3000 tuner; regarded by some as being one of the best tuners ever designed) as well a several B&O cartridges, the latter I regard as some of the best cartridge designs ever made. Of course all of this is in my opinion.
I will concede that some of B&O's styling was a bit too futuristic and not to my taste, but to dismiss the entire brand because of it is wrong.
I too have a Beomaster 1700 tuner, and a Beolab 1700 amplifier, not their top range, but very good sound.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4087/5047219917_5990c47744_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/8G1jD4)Beolab 1700 (https://flic.kr/p/8G1jD4) by A60man (https://www.flickr.com/photos/41679262@N02/), on Flickr
Spectral Morn
20-12-2018, 15:59
For a long time people would dismiss Bang & Olufsen gear a being "just 'Habitat' hi-fi", that is all style over substance. Well they were wrong. B&O designed some world leading equipment that was recognised by reviewers at the time. Even in the '80, Absolute Sound magazine rated the B&O 4000 turntable ahead of the over-feted Linn Sondek.
In my collection I have a B&O 1700 tuner (sister to the 3000 tuner; regarded by some as being one of the best tuners ever designed) as well a several B&O cartridges, the latter I regard as some of the best cartridge designs ever made. Of course all of this is in my opinion.
I will concede that some of B&O's styling was a bit too futuristic and not to my taste, but to dismiss the entire brand because of it is wrong.
Really! By those who have not heard the top Japanese tuners, Magnum Dynalabs, Revox or even the AudioLab 8000T.
What a contentious thread this has become without need. As far as I can tell, those with some experience of B&O are just saying not to dismiss all their products as without substance.
There is also the nostalgia involved in having something we used to have from years ago (or similar).How many of us would like to replace the kit we started out with ,even though it is likely to be inferior to what we now have.Jus' sayin' _ Mick
Really! By those who have not heard the top Japanese tuners, Magnum Dynalabs, Revox or even the AudioLab 8000T.
In the case of the B&O 3000 - Yes! I did say one of the best.
Beobloke
20-12-2018, 17:40
In the case of the B&O 3000 - Yes! I did say one of the best.
It’s actually the Beomaster 5000 ;)
I know of two people who prefer theirs to the Yamaha CT-7000 and mine came from a little company called the BBC who bought it new and used it, along with a load of others, for 40 years in Broadcasting House to monitor transmitter output quality. Mine was used for LBC, according to the label on the plug!
Thanks - I thought I had made a mistake with the designation. Anyway you understood which B&O model I meant: the one with the sliding tuning cursor.
Yes, I knew of the BBC connection. They also used the Quad FM4 as a representative of a typical high quality tuner with which to monitor broadcast quality.
Spectral Morn
20-12-2018, 20:30
It’s actually the Beomaster 5000 ;)
I know of two people who prefer theirs to the Yamaha CT-7000 and mine came from a little company called the BBC who bought it new and used it, along with a load of others, for 40 years in Broadcasting House to monitor transmitter output quality. Mine was used for LBC, according to the label on the plug!
The Yamaha CT 7000 is over rated. The position it occupies on the Tuner Info Network ratings listings is about right, which is number 55. So many more are better than it, and available for much less money.
I am not saying by the way that a B&O tuner isn't a good one, but up with the top Kenwoods, Sansui, Revox, Accuphase etc, nope, not a chance.
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