View Full Version : AT33PTG
Ammonite Audio
26-04-2010, 20:06
Audiocubes have informed me that the AT33PTG is no longer available. I've immediately ordered one from an eBay supplier in Japan, but I wonder what's going on. Does anyone know if it's been discontinued? My Japanese is for some reason not good enough to navigate AT's Japan website!
The Vinyl Adventure
26-04-2010, 20:49
Google translator in chrome might help with that
There is one up for grabs on PFM right now, seller reckons it's only had a couple of hours use.
http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=79181
Oh, not good news at all. Are there any variants of the AT33 still available?
Ammonite Audio
27-04-2010, 21:24
Oh, not good news at all. Are there any variants of the AT33 still available?
Loads - but they are all more expensive!
There are two available on eBay:-
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Audio-Technica-AT33PTG-Prestige-MC-Stereo-Cartridge-/390178118617?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ad86d9bd9
Ammonite Audio
30-04-2010, 11:59
My AT33PTG arrived from Japan today. Fantastic service and communication from eBay seller "fromjpnpro" ( http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/fromjpnpro/ ) who I can't recommend highly enough. A weekend of tinkering and listening beckons!
Has anyone actually looked at the AT33 range in detail? The PTG was a sort of special IIRC and UK based sites tended to push it over the others. The dearer ones may well be better for all I know (it was developed in the eighties, so they've had long enough to refine it :)).
The AT33EV sells in the USA but I've never found any information that compares the two. Spec-wise they look almost identical. Audiocubes also sell an AT33R, which comes with a headshell.
Ammonite Audio
30-04-2010, 21:18
Martin, my AT33PTG sounds rather artificial and brittle. I presume that's because it's new and needs some running-in time. Did yours need much time to start performing as well as it does now?
Please double check the alignment, as the ML tip which I think you have fitted is very sensitive. I'd also suggest the arm ever-so-slightly-down at the back (a smidge only) rather than slightly high, as I used to do "first-time."
You could also check the damping in the Jelco and make sure the tip is kept spotless too. What's the tracking weight?
Apologies if I'm doing a granny-sucking-eggs scenario. All I can think of for now..
Yes, Hugo. Give it about 20 hours and it will calm down. Don't go too light on the tracking force, I found it needs all of 1.85g to get the balance right.
Ammonite Audio
01-05-2010, 05:31
Please double check the alignment, as the ML tip which I think you have fitted is very sensitive. I'd also suggest the arm ever-so-slightly-down at the back (a smidge only) rather than slightly high, as I used to do "first-time."
You could also check the damping in the Jelco and make sure the tip is kept spotless too. What's the tracking weight?
Apologies if I'm doing a granny-sucking-eggs scenario. All I can think of for now..
The alignment is set to IEC standard, using a Clearaudio alignment jig. The arm is set level (iirc Martin has his level too) and does have damping fluid in its well. Tracking weight is Martin's recommended 1.85g. I'm not particularly concerned since it's new, but Martin's comment above is reassuring.
Then you need a Herbies mat..... :ner:
Sincere apologies, I couldn't resist it.....
Ammonite Audio
01-05-2010, 16:00
Then you need a Herbies mat..... :ner:
Sincere apologies, I couldn't resist it.....
Not a problem - I disliked it on the Technics and the Kenwood does not need such things:) How are you getting on with the Herbies mat, btw?
Ammonite Audio
01-05-2010, 19:58
The AT33PTG is sounding quite a lot nicer after many hours of running-in over the last 24 hours. It's mostly lost the lumpy, artificial, brittle, incoherent quality that it had straight out of the box. The brittleness is now giving way to a very precise and detailed top end. Interestingly, the frequency plot that Martin showed me for his AT33PTG was pretty much ruler-flat; mine has a 1-2dB lift rising rapidly from 5kHz to form a flat shelf going past 20kHz. I shall probably produce a DSP correction for that in the Lyngdorf software.
The AT33PTG did respond well to some added mass, in the form of a collar of roughly 40mm of thin doll's house lead flashing wrapped around the armtube, at the headshell end. Martin - did you add extra mass added to your 250ST headshell to make the AT33PTG happier?
So, I'm relieved, and happier!
No, interestingly I didn't add any mass to the 250ST so you heard my 33PTG in a low mass setup. It didn't sound at all bad for all that.
Now it's in the Dynavector, which is definitely a high mass setup. The biggest benefit is in the bass which now goes as deep and is as weighty as Marco's DL-103SA sounded in my system. Happily, that fantastic midrange and very extended and detailed treble haven't changed in character and are as beguiling as I've ever heard from an AT.
What did you hear with the mass change, Hugo?
Ammonite Audio
01-05-2010, 20:41
What did you hear with the mass change, Hugo?
It simply sounds much more 'together' and happier with the extra mass. That's rather nebulous but it is just nicer to listen to now. It's not just a function of the running-in: the mass has definitely helped.
On the subject of mass, my Denon DL-103 with its Isokinetik stabiliser requires either extra counterbalance mass, or that the standard counterweight is would right back to the end of the stub. Established thinking (eg what Marco told me) is that a heavy weight mounted close to the pivot point is what should work best; however my mate Tony (who does know a few things about record players) told me to take the extra mass off the counterweight, and move it right back to get the correct tracking weight. And he was right! The old nail sounds much better that way, than with a heavy weight close to the pivot. Luckily, that tip saved me from wasting £75 on a Jelco heavy counterweight; and freed up the strip of lead flashing needed to make the AT33PTG happier in the Jelco!
Hi Hugo,
I don't quite understand what you mean by this:
On the subject of mass, my Denon DL-103 with its Isokinetik stabiliser requires either extra counterbalance mass, or that the standard counterweight is would right back to the end of the stub. Established thinking (eg what Marco told me) is that a heavy weight mounted close to the pivot point is what should work best; however my mate Tony (who does know a few things about record players) told me to take the extra mass off the counterweight, and move it right back to get the correct tracking weight.
Therefore, perhaps you could elucidate further? :scratch:
In any case, it's always good to seek as much advice as possible, because as there are so many variables with these sorts of things, there is simply no single universally definitive answer....
Glad it's working out well with the AT-33 PTG. It's a very fine cartridge - easily as good as anything else up to a grand! :cool:
Marco.
Vinyl is a gift from God
01-05-2010, 21:25
I'd be mortified if I couldn't find a replacement when mine wears out :(
The established thinking (derived from the ultra high compliance early seventies) is that the counterweight should be near to the pivots to reduce inertia.
I have the herbies in situ and it suits the Dual/OC9 well. Thanks for the chance of letting me have it :)
I'd be mortified if I couldn't find a replacement when mine wears out :(
That's what EsCo's for..... ;)
Ammonite Audio
01-05-2010, 21:38
Hi Hugo,
I don't quite understand what you mean by this:
Therefore, perhaps you could elucidate further? :scratch:
In any case, it's always good to seek as much advice as possible, because as there are so many variables with these sorts of things, there is simply no single universally definitive answer....
Glad it's working out well with the AT-33 PTG. It's a very fine cartridge - easily as good as anything else up to a grand! :cool:
Marco.
I'm not the expert, but my mate Tony has a good intuition with things vinyl, and in this case he was right, presumably based on his own observations with a very wide variety of record players and arms. I cannot understand why there should be any difference whether inertia is achieved one way or another, but clearly there is!
As you say, there's no universal answer.
Too right, matey - whatever works, works! :)
Marco.
Heavy weight balanced closer to the pivot = lower effective inertia
Light weight balanced further from the pivot = higher effective inertia
Yep - I've always found lower effective intertia to be better, but as with anything in hi-fi (especially turntables), you just have to suck it and see :)
Marco.
Ammonite Audio
02-05-2010, 19:28
This AT33PTG is sounding rather special now.
... and that's all that matters :respect:
Ammonite Audio
02-05-2010, 21:21
Indeed!
Really glad to hear that, Hugo. I was feeling responsible after you'd heard my 33PTG and CineMags :)
Magna Audio
03-05-2010, 11:01
Hi Hugo,
AT-33 PTG. It's a very fine cartridge - easily as good as anything else up to a grand! :cool:
Marco.
A a former PTG'er I agree is a very good cart. A Rondo Bronze would give it a run for it money but a tad more expensive.
As for the upto a grand? - hmm depends what you want but the SPU Royal N does beat it for me on vocals, piano and bass and has lower surface noise - fancy cut of the stylus playing some part in that I guess. You did say a grand:)
Ammonite Audio
03-05-2010, 11:36
A a former PTG'er I agree is a very good cart. A Rondo Bronze would give it a run for it money but a tad more expensive.
As for the upto a grand? - hmm depends what you want but the SPU Royal N does beat it for me on vocals, piano and bass and has lower surface noise - fancy cut of the stylus playing some part in that I guess. You did say a grand:)
Lower surface noise? I'm astonished at the lack of surface noise with the AT33PTG, so an SPU Royal N must be special indeed in this respect!
The lower surface noise is a function of both the 33PTG and the SUT, as I found out by experiment. I do agree that it would take quite something to improve on the superb rejection of surface noise of this combination.
Magna Audio
03-05-2010, 12:55
The lower surface noise is a function of both the 33PTG and the SUT, as I found out by experiment. I do agree that it would take quite something to improve on the superb rejection of surface noise of this combination.
Until you've experienced it on your own rig on your records I understand it is hard to believe!
SPU Royal N uses a Nude Ortofon Replicant 100 stylus - maybe something to do with it.
There's stuff on the web about the nature of these cuts - I don't understand half of it.
Ammonite Audio
03-05-2010, 13:46
Nude Ortofon Replicant
Sounds like something out of Blade Runner!
Magna Audio
03-05-2010, 15:41
Yeah - weird scifi hifi:)
Hi Steve,
A a former PTG'er I agree is a very good cart. A Rondo Bronze would give it a run for it money but a tad more expensive.
I've had both... The Rondo, to my ears, has deeper bass and a 'bigger' sound, and the AT more refinement across the mid and top end, showing the Rondo as being somewhat more 'safe' sounding and, to my ears, less expressive overall. Much of course depends on the partnering equipment and ancillaries.
As for the upto a grand? - hmm depends what you want but the SPU Royal N does beat it for me on vocals, piano and bass and has lower surface noise - fancy cut of the stylus playing some part in that I guess. You did say a grand:)
Lol - I didn't say it was the BEST cartridge up to a grand, but rather as good as most up to that price point, IMO. I would agree that the Royal N has certain charms the PTG (or any AT cartridge) lacks, but the PTG's overall balance of sonic virtues is quite simply amazing for the money, and it also looks absolutely gorgeous.....
Undoubtedly the AT-33PTG qualifies as a serious bargain, and epitomises the principles of high SPPV we champion and value so highly on AOS :cool:
Marco.
Magna Audio
04-05-2010, 20:39
Hi Steve,
I've had both... The Rondo, to my ears, has deeper bass and a 'bigger' sound, and the AT more refinement across the mid and top end, showing the Rondo as being somewhat more 'safe' sounding and, to my ears, less expressive overall. Much of course depends on the partnering equipment and ancillaries.
Lol - I didn't say it was the BEST cartridge up to a grand, but rather as good as most up to that price point, IMO. I would agree that the Royal N has certain charms the PTG (or any AT cartridge) lacks, but the PTG's overall balance of sonic virtues is quite simply amazing for the money, and it also looks absolutely gorgeous.....
Undoubtedly the AT-33PTG qualifies as a serious bargain, and epitomises the principles of high SPPV we champion and value so highly on AOS :cool:
Marco.
amen to that;)
The Vinyl Adventure
04-05-2010, 23:30
Dave seems to have more less expensive than the oc9 mc carts on his site, I'm sure I didn't see them when I was oggleing the pictures of the oc9 in the days before I went down wit martin?? Maybe I was just distracted??
Stratmangler
04-05-2010, 23:52
I've had both... The Rondo, to my ears, has deeper bass and a 'bigger' sound, and the AT more refinement across the mid and top end, showing the Rondo as being somewhat more 'safe' sounding and, to my ears, less expressive overall. Much of course depends on the partnering equipment and ancillaries.
I've heard the Rondo Bronze on a number of occasions, and it doesn't do it for me either.
What was the Woody Allen film where he played a literalist advertising executive ? Volvo - boxy but safe !
Well the Rondo sounds about as interesting as a Volvo 240 is an interesting drive. :lolsign:
I've heard the Rondo Bronze on a number of occasions, and it doesn't do it for me either.
What was the Woody Allen film where he played a literalist advertising executive ? Volvo - boxy but safe !
Well the Rondo sounds about as interesting as a Volvo 240 is an interesting drive. :lolsign:
Not meaning to be picky - it was Dudley Moore in the film Crazy People - "Volvo - they're boxy but they're good." Personally, I would rather have a "Jaguar - the car for men who want handjobs from beautiful women" :eyebrows:
Dave seems to have more less expensive than the oc9 mc carts on his site, I'm sure I didn't see them when I was oggleing the pictures of the oc9 in the days before I went down wit martin?? Maybe I was just distracted??
He does seem to have boosted the cartridge section of his website. I do like the look of the Shelters, particularly the 5000 which might be a future upgrade path for me. Chris Martens is one reviewer whose opinions I respect.
Well the Rondo sounds about as interesting as a Volvo 240 is an interesting drive. :lolsign:
My ex had a Volvo 940 estate. Nasty, slow, rattly, barge-like pile of sh*te it was.
The Vinyl Adventure
05-05-2010, 09:02
Crazy people is such a funny film! Makes my laugh like a silly person!
I like the ad they do about Sony products being so good because they are made by small Japanese people and not tall gangly Caucasians ... The Japanese people are better because they are so small they are closer tonthe circuit boards they are making!
Genius
Crazy people is such a funny film! Makes my laugh like a silly person!
I like the ad they do about Sony products being so good because they are made by small Japanese people and not tall gangly Caucasians ... The Japanese people are better because they are so small they are closer tonthe circuit boards they are making!
Genius
I love the film too Hamish which was why I was able to be so anally correct:
The Sony ad is on You Tube as a "Banned racist SONY Commercial" :D:D:D:D
93KrnZ0UJQk
Sorry for the thread drift - at least we're back on hifi (sort of! ;))
The Vinyl Adventure
05-05-2010, 17:50
Haha very very funny!
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