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View Full Version : Acoustic Dimentions Firebottle KIN Vs Khozmo 1.2A DCB1 - Mini bakeoff



Bigman80
07-12-2018, 16:58
I heard the ADSA (Acoustic Dimensions Stepped Attenuator) today, in Alans Firebottle KIN Preamplifier.

I know this Preamp intimately as I’ve been listening to it frequently for the last few years. Alan has undertaken a fair bit of work on this over that time and this has improved the performance incrementally over that time. The refinements made to the Phonostage section have made that really sing and it’s been a pleasure to listen to.

That said, when the Chinese relay Preamp came in, the KIN was firmly dislodged IMO as the best preamp Alan owned. The problem, of course, was not the KIN’s design or the quality of components, it was the ALPS Blue Pot. Which (I have been saying for a dogs age) needed to be removed. I came to this resolute conclusion when I loaned the Slagle AVC from Ali Tait (IIRC) and it annihilated my very well built passive pre, with……ALPS Blue. If there is a bottleneck to a preamp’s performance or that of an integrated, it is in the potentiometer where the most improvement, Sound per £, can be found. That’s my opinion anyway.

I have frequently recommended the Khozmo and for good reason. The Series version of this SA is the only version I have tried but I feel absolutely no reason to try the ladder or shunt version. By all accounts, the series is the most popular one for a reason! The Khozmo is stunningly transparent and engaging to my ears and yes, it’s not cheap but when you get it, you know why.

Alan did a few measurements and realised he couldn’t fit a Khozmo in his case. A few days earlier, Alan and I had been discussing options and I had mentioned the ADSA, but not by name as id forgotten. As fate would have it, Alan found the exact model and ordered one.
I was going to pick up my DCB1 so I had the chance to hear and compare the two preamps. I was worried for the KIN as when we did the comparison previously, the DCB1 added it to it’s bedpost as a conquered notch.

We always use the same track first, Ride across The River – Dire Straits.

Instantly, as Knopfler starts to sing, I knew. This ADSA was a game changer. Admittedly, I hadn’t heard my new DCB1 yet and was unsure as to how it compared but I knew the KIN was now a serious preamp. What stood out was the resolution. Nuances were tracked across the now spacious soundstage and decay seemed to go on forever. I was starting to worry about whether the DCB1 was going to be as good. I was slightly happy though, that the mid-section sounded a bit busy and I knew that the DCB1 would have the edge in terms of organisation clarity.

We moved over to the DCB1 and my fears were allayed. I was right. The DCB1 has all of the resolution, maybe a little more in truth and as we listened, the mid-section was in fact far better delineated. Alan and I spoke about this and he said “ah, there isn’t a Telefunken in the line stage”

As we listened on, I felt the DCB1 had a slightly drier presentation than the KIN but again, every component in th eDCB1 is brand new compared to the KIN which has been well run in, except for the ADSA. A few more tracks were played and the thing that still lingers about the KIN is the euphoric nature in which the music was presented. There is/was a slight softening of the sound compared to the DCB1. I found the DCB1 to be more precise and immediate which I prefer but if Swapping the line section valve to a Telefunken can tighten things up a bit, Alan will have a preamp very capable of hanging with the best.

In my opinion, the ADSA is the most important and significant upgrade Alan has made to the Kin. Its clarity, transparency and insight are as good as the Khozmo from what I could tell and in terms of the improvement to performance, it’s not the KIN I knew, it’s a whole new level and I am not sure I have heard a better Valve preamp. All that improvement just by changing the Alps blue to a ADSA.

I know loads of manufacturers use the ALPs but I am serious when i say, you are not serious if you are using one.

Q: Would i recommend a Acoustic Dimensions Stepped Attenuator?

A: After hearing what it's done for Alans KIN, i absolutely have to.

Q: Is it better than a Khozmo?

A: I would like to hear one in the same DCB1 set up i have. There were odd occasions when i thought it might be but i could also attribute the difference to the Harmonics of the Valves etc.

I will be hearing the KIN in my system, i am sure, with the Telefunken mod and then i will know more. I must stress how impressed i was with what i heard today. if the Telefunken mod does what i expect, this is going to be a sensational preamp, one i think needs a comparison with a Croft Charisma X

Ali Tait
07-12-2018, 17:40
Yes agree, the pot can make a big difference to the sound, well worth experimenting with.

Bigman80
07-12-2018, 18:01
Yes agree, the pot can make a big difference to the sound, well worth experimenting with.No doubt about it mate. What you using these days?

Ali Tait
07-12-2018, 18:25
Now have an AVC with Tribute transformers. It’s superb.

Bigman80
07-12-2018, 18:37
Now have an AVC with Tribute transformers. It’s superb.Ooh nice.

sq225917
07-12-2018, 20:04
Blimey Ali, spendy iron in there...

anubisgrau
08-12-2018, 00:22
has anyone ever tested slagle AVC vs tribute AVC?

i think tribute is the only inductive volume control worth of having i haven't had yet in my room.

Bigman80
08-12-2018, 09:05
has anyone ever tested slagle AVC vs tribute AVC?

i think tribute is the only inductive volume control worth of having i haven't had yet in my room.I had a Slagle. If you like passive preamps, it's definitely one to look into. It was here for a decent spell and I loved it. I wanted more bass control due to my boomy room and decided to go active in order to achieve this. It wasn't easy to find something that outperformed it and whilst the DCB1 Dora's outperform it in my system, it is more expensive.

anubisgrau
08-12-2018, 09:11
I had a several Slagle based machines in my room, and currently I own EMIA AVC preamp. It's good but I currently listen a test unit of the new local product, AVC with silver woundings. Seriously better but at cost and still a prototype. I asked about Tribute because I have their SUT which plays excellent for relatively reasonable money - for my taste better than most of the things you can buy s/h for about 400-500 what it costs, so I expect their volume controls to be second to none. I also like Pieter's latest product, a combo of output transformers and volume control, though not sure if this is the position to put AVC - should be at the inputs, at least by the book

DCB1 - I noticed proliferation of the product here and I know nothing about it. Was there a group buy? I know Pass B1 and frankly not a big fan of it, technically precise and neutral but not very musical, but I'm open for surprises.

Bigman80
08-12-2018, 09:43
I had a several Slagle based machines in my room, and currently I own EMIA AVC preamp. It's good but I currently listen a test unit of the new local product, AVC with silver woundings. Seriously better but at cost and still a prototype. I asked about Tribute because I have their SUT which plays excellent for relatively reasonable money - for my taste better than most of the things you can buy s/h for about 400-500 what it costs, so I expect their volume controls to be second to none. I also like Pieter's latest product, a combo of output transformers and volume control, though not sure if this is the position to put AVC - should be at the inputs, at least by the book

DCB1 - I noticed proliferation of the product here and I know nothing about it. Was there a group buy? I know Pass B1 and frankly not a big fan of it, technically precise and neutral but not very musical, but I'm open for surprises.The DCB1 is available from Tea-Bag of DIYaudio. Comes in a kit form and has to be assembled by the end user. There are ways of getting a built one though.

Personally, I don't find the DCB1 to be anything other than transparent and precise. Is there embellishment? No, it's completely accurate.

I'm sure there are people that wouldn't like it's style but I love it.

Ali Tait
08-12-2018, 09:53
Blimey Ali, spendy iron in there...

Got it from Keith of Purite on PFM, was bought to try in a prototype preamp, so only used for a few weeks. Bit of a bargain at the £300 I think it was.

Simon_LDT
08-12-2018, 11:18
I'm using an Acoustic Dimensions attenuator also and have it on my passive pre custom built by Jez Arkless (it has his buffer built in too, which can be switched in/out of the circuit).

I'm still amazed at the clarity gained compared to my previous pre's. Some may find it too transparent and not warm enough (especially if using in an all Solid State system) but it works for me as I listen to a lot of complex prog/metal and I love hearing all the layers in the mix coming through with such clarity and separation. Guitars just sound so f'king powerful and crunchy.

If I listen to albums which are mastered dynamically it can be scary when a drum hit just hits hard and loud and jumps out at me (think of a floor tom/snare flam).

I listen near field and every time I sit down to listen I just get the feeling I'm sitting in the mastering room listening.

AD Audio
09-12-2018, 20:03
I had a Slagle. If you like passive preamps, it's definitely one to look into. It was here for a decent spell and I loved it. I wanted more bass control due to my boomy room and decided to go active in order to achieve this. It wasn't easy to find something that outperformed it and whilst the DCB1 Dora's outperform it in my system, it is more expensive.So why not use a Slagle with an active pre? I do and it's superb

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

Bigman80
09-12-2018, 20:10
So why not use a Slagle with an active pre? I do and it's superb

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using TapatalkAt the time, I had a XiangSheng DAC01 here which can be used as a preamp. When I hooked it up 'for a laugh' in place of the Slagle, It turned out i wasnt laughing.

The XSDAC01 brought Vim And Vigour to the performance. Yes, it was as flat as a pancake in terms of soundstage but once I heard what I was missing, I had to do something.

Alan suggested fitting a buffer to the Slagle and I looked into it. Trouble was I didn't have the available funds and would need to sell the Slagle to fund anything I wanted to do.

It was a huge gamble, such was the quality of the Slagle but it's not one I was left regretting.

The Khozmo controlled DCB1 is quite frankly speaking, superior in my opinion.

I do also think that the Acoustic Dimensions SA could be special but I am not going to spend to find out.

Or am I? I'll have to see about that.

pankon
09-12-2018, 20:48
Simon, nothing other than near field listening works for me either. I have the speakers close to me and the sound jumps from the far back in the middle.