View Full Version : Switched attenuators, what's all the fuss about?
Firebottle
06-12-2018, 16:59
Beware that low flying cloud of moths, I've finally opened my wallet :rolleyes:
What with all the fabulous construction of DCB1 preamps in all their states of turbo charging, I have had the pleasure of hearing what a quality switched attenuator can bring to the party.
The answer is an opening of a (very wide) door to what is really contained in all your favourite music :eek:
It is well known that a passive pot can stifle the dynamics/presentation/depth/(insert your own word) of an audio signal so it has only confirmed this being the case with the Alps Blue control in my KIN preamp.
For a while I have switched to using one of the cheap Chinese RVCs (resistor/relay volume control) as that has given a greater clarity to the system.
Now knowing that a switched attenuator, the Khozmo in particular, is the most transparent control I have heard, I have bitten the bullet and decided that I need to fit one into the KIN.
However I wanted to keep the remote control function and the remote add on for the Khozmo is both large and expensive.
Searching around I came across Acoustic Dimension switched attenuators http://www.acoustic-dimension.com/attenuators/attenuators-main.htm
The bonus with this one is that the remote control for an Alps pot works identically with the Acoustic Dimension.
Inside of the KIN with the new switched attenuator:
http://i65.tinypic.com/axif4h.jpg
Fortunately there was a little spare room to push the phono section board back to accommodate the larger control.
All I can say is 'why didn't I do this earlier?', the sound is now phenomenally good.
Close up of the Acoustic Dimension attenuator:
http://i65.tinypic.com/ebacd2.jpg
On short initial listening I think this is as good as the Khozmo attenuator, more listening will be done and other ears will be entertained, with results reported in due course.
So what's all the fuss? One of the biggest upgrades you can do IMO, that's what.
Happy bunny :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
Bigman80
06-12-2018, 17:13
As usual, I find myself envious of the skill on show here. The inside of the KIN looks fantastic.
You're not kidding about squeezing it in either!!
What I hope you have in the ADSA (see what I did there[emoji23]) is the same as what's available in the Khozmo. Transparency.
The Khozmo is streets ahead of any other pot/TVC/AVC/RVC I've heard and that's why I've bought another for my current DCB1 build.
I heard of the ADSA a few weeks back when one of the members here recommended it. Construction looks superb and the fact it's a smidge cheaper than the Khozmo is an absolute bonus.
Now, when I get a Chance to hear this tomorrow, I'm gonna be listening carefully!!
A short bakeoff v the DCB1 is in order so I'm looking forward to that.
Great work Al, as usual. Glad you enjoyed took the plunge. It's only took 12 months of convincing [emoji1787][emoji1787]
Sherwood
06-12-2018, 17:38
Beware that low flying cloud of moths, I've finally opened my wallet :rolleyes:
What with all the fabulous construction of DCB1 preamps in all their states of turbo charging, I have had the pleasure of hearing what a quality switched attenuator can bring to the party.
The answer is an opening of a (very wide) door to what is really contained in all your favourite music :eek:
It is well known that a passive pot can stifle the dynamics/presentation/depth/(insert your own word) of an audio signal so it has only confirmed this being the case with the Alps Blue control in my KIN preamp.
For a while I have switched to using one of the cheap Chinese RVCs (resistor/relay volume control) as that has given a greater clarity to the system.
Now knowing that a switched attenuator, the Khozmo in particular, is the most transparent control I have heard, I have bitten the bullet and decided that I need to fit one into the KIN.
However I wanted to keep the remote control function and the remote add on for the Khozmo is both large and expensive.
Searching around I came across Acoustic Dimension switched attenuators http://www.acoustic-dimension.com/attenuators/attenuators-main.htm
The bonus with this one is that the remote control for an Alps pot works identically with the Acoustic Dimension.
Inside of the KIN with the new switched attenuator:
http://i65.tinypic.com/axif4h.jpg
Fortunately there was a little spare room to push the phono section board back to accommodate the larger control.
All I can say is 'why didn't I do this earlier?', the sound is now phenomenally good.
Close up of the Acoustic Dimension attenuator:
http://i65.tinypic.com/ebacd2.jpg
On short initial listening I think this is as good as the Khozmo attenuator, more listening will be done and other ears will be entertained, with results reported in due course.
So what's all the fuss? One of the biggest upgrades you can do IMO, that's what.
Happy bunny :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
Alan,
I was recently considering buying a stepped attenuator passive preamp from China on ebay. Do you know if there are any commercial units that have these devices fitted at reasonable cost?
Hi Alan
Finally took the plunge, about time mate.
I've heard your kin pre and always thought it to be very good indeed, must be something else with the new pot, sorry attenuator. I think i might try one in the Dcb1 for comparison to the Khozmo with the added bonus of being remote controlled.
Cant wait to hear your Kin now...
S.
Bigman80
06-12-2018, 18:01
Alan,
I was recently considering buying a stepped attenuator passive preamp from China on ebay. Do you know if there are any commercial units that have these devices fitted at reasonable cost?You could possibly make one for £250
The Black Adder
06-12-2018, 18:02
Looks good.
I've been using Khozmo for years now but have wondered what others have to offer.
Sent from my 9001X using Tapatalk
Firebottle
06-12-2018, 18:28
Alan,
I was recently considering buying a stepped attenuator passive preamp from China on ebay. Do you know if there are any commercial units that have these devices fitted at reasonable cost?
I don't think you will find anything at 'reasonable' cost, unfortunately being 'precision instruments' in effect the cost is what it is.
:(
Sherwood
06-12-2018, 18:38
I don't think you will find anything at 'reasonable' cost, unfortunately being 'precision instruments' in effect the cost is what it is.
:(
It's about £200 for the motorised RC unit?
The Black Adder
06-12-2018, 18:58
Where are they manufactured, Alan, do you know?
Sent from my 9001X using Tapatalk
Firebottle
06-12-2018, 20:47
Netherlands Josie.
@ Sherwood> £225 for the motorised unit, inc delivery.
You do need a remote control board and handset on top of this, unless you already have it with an Alps equivalent.
Bigman80
06-12-2018, 20:56
Ok maybe £300
Light Dependant Resistor
07-12-2018, 09:34
Glad you are finding differences with different methods of attenuation
The history of varying a signal using resistance, which has similarity but is not quite the same as switched attenuation
goes back nearly 100 years to a patent for the rheostat, that was intended for a musical light display instrument "The Sarabet " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Hallock-Greenewalt
used with a type of Visual music she called - Nourathar
It is interesting to note that varying audio signals, this way via a rheostat, was never intended at all.
In your journey discovering different methods of attenuation, keep in mind there are many alternatives, such as using contact-less opto- coupling methods.
sq225917
07-12-2018, 13:47
Alan which of the Khozmo's did you try? I think there's at least as much variation between them as there is with other brands. My own personal favourite switched attenuator is the Goldpoint V47, they just didn't do a reasonably priced RC version so I settled on the 10k rotary encoded Khozmo.
Hoping that I am not hi-jacking this thread, I would like to contribute my experience with stepped attenuators, if I may.
There has been a lot of debate among fellow audiophiles about the comparison of passive and active preamps. Each side had certain advantages to propose. I have a top-of-the-line Croft preamp, the Micro 25RSLS (line only), upgraded by Glenn.
24845
But I took the plunge and purchased a passive Hattor dual-mono preamp (the higher-end brand that Arek Kallas, the owner of Khozmo, has on offer).
24846
24847
My Hattor passive preamp uses Khozmo shunt attenuators with z-foil resistors. In comparison to the Croft preamp, the Hattor was more transparent, more detailed, but simultaneously somewhat "thinner" and smaller in body. The passive preamp sounded more neutral, more precise, whereby the Croft sounded more alive, with greater body and more realistic. I could not say that the one was better than the other one on all points. I liked several qualities in both preamps.
And then it dawned at me. What if I could combine the best of each preamp?
So, I decided to make a small experiment. More specifically I decided to bypass the low-cost pots of the Croft (Tocos) and use the Hattor as a volume control upstream the Croft. In other words, I connected all sources (phono stage and DAC) to the Hattor and then I connected the Hattor output to one of the Croft's inputs. Interconnect cables for that connection were Mark Grant HDX1. All other interconnects were Belden 8428.
24843
24844
The result? REALLY, really interesting! The combined preamps gave me both the transparency, detail, body and dynamics. The realism of the sound was upgraded. And all that, taking into account that there were additional circuits, binding posts and an extra set of interconnects than before.
After this introduction, I am now seriously thinking of having two Khozmo attenuators with z-foil resistors (similar to the ones in the Hattor preamp) installed inside the Croft preamp. This will allow me to achieve a shorter signal path than what I currently have with my chained preamps. Hopefully a remote control will fit inside the Croft box as well.
I understand that other fellow members have tried Khozmo attenuators, and there seems to be a consensus that series attenuators are better than shunt. I have not had the chance to make such a comparison, but I've liked the shunt attenuators of the Hattor (having followed Arek's recommendation).
I know that commercial (vs. DIY) hi-fi gear is built to a price point, and I have the utmost respect to Croft gear. However, in my humble opinion, I believe that Croft's designs would perform significantly better with upgraded valves (NOS instead of new stock) and switched attenuators (than carbon pots). I hope my comments are not misunderstood, I am just speaking from personal experience.
Bigman80
07-12-2018, 20:51
Hoping that I am not hi-jacking this thread, I would like to contribute my experience with stepped attenuators, if I may.
There has been a lot of debate among fellow audiophiles about the comparison of passive and active preamps. Each side had certain advantages to propose. I have a top-of-the-line Croft preamp, the Micro 25RSLS (line only), upgraded by Glenn.
24845
But I took the plunge and purchased a passive Hattor dual-mono preamp (the higher-end brand that Arek Kallas, the owner of Khozmo, has on offer).
24846
24847
My Hattor passive preamp uses Khozmo shunt attenuators with z-foil resistors. In comparison to the Croft preamp, the Hattor was more transparent, more detailed, but simultaneously somewhat "thinner" and smaller in body. The passive preamp sounded more neutral, more precise, whereby the Croft sounded more alive, with greater body and more realistic. I could not say that the one was better than the other one on all points. I liked several qualities in both preamps.
And then it dawned at me. What if I could combine the best of each preamp?
So, I decided to make a small experiment. More specifically I decided to bypass the low-cost pots of the Croft (Tocos) and use the Hattor as a volume control upstream the Croft. In other words, I connected all sources (phono stage and DAC) to the Hattor and then I connected the Hattor output to one of the Croft's inputs. Interconnect cables for that connection were Mark Grant HDX1. All other interconnects were Belden 8428.
24843
24844
The result? REALLY, really interesting! The combined preamps gave me both the transparency, detail, body and dynamics. The realism of the sound was upgraded. And all that, taking into account that there were additional circuits, binding posts and an extra set of interconnects than before.
After this introduction, I am now seriously thinking of having two Khozmo attenuators with z-foil resistors (similar to the ones in the Hattor preamp) installed inside the Croft preamp. This will allow me to achieve a shorter signal path than what I currently have with my chained preamps. Hopefully a remote control will fit inside the Croft box as well.
I understand that other fellow members have tried Khozmo attenuators, and there seems to be a consensus that series attenuators are better than shunt. I have not had the chance to make such a comparison, but I've liked the shunt attenuators of the Hattor (having followed Arek's recommendation).
I know that commercial (vs. DIY) hi-fi gear is built to a price point, and I have the utmost respect to Croft gear. However, in my humble opinion, I believe that Croft's designs would perform significantly better with upgraded valves (NOS instead of new stock) and switched attenuators (than carbon pots). I hope my comments are not misunderstood, I am just speaking from personal experience.Panos,
You are the man!!
I have been saying the same thing to Croft owners & Firebottle KIN owner, Alan, for the last 12 months are least.
The TOCOS pots in the Croft is an adequate pot and one I prefer to the Alps blue but there is so much more available from the preamp than either pot allows.
The Khozmo is an absolute beauty. I have the series stepped attenuator and I love it. It's my second one.
There was a bakeoff today between the Firebottle KIN fitted with an Acoustic Dimensions SA and my new DCB1 with Khozmo.
There was certainly enough quality in the FIREBOTTLE KIN that was being strangled by the Alps pot. Now, it's a thing of beauty all thanks to the upgrade to the ADSA.
Get the better attenuator fitted and enjoy the croft. Good work sir!
Indeed, Oliver, this is what I am going to do. I'll have Khozmo attenuators fitted into the Croft. I hope (and expect) that the final result will be even better than my current overkill preamp combination. But that recent experiment has been quite enlightening.
Now the question is whether I should go for shunt or series attenuators. Arek favors shunt...
I understand that Josie has significant experience with Khozmo attenuators in her Croft preamp for several years now.
Bigman80
07-12-2018, 21:04
Indeed, Oliver, this is what I am going to do. I'll have Khozmo attenuators fitted into the Croft. I hope (and expect) that the final result will be even better than my current overkill preamp combination. But that recent experiment has been quite enlightening.
Now the question is whether I should go for shunt or series attenuators. Arek favors shunt...
I understand that Josie has significant experience with Khozmo attenuators in her Croft preamp for several years now.I don't think Josie is alone in that experience either.
I asked for advise on whether to go shunt, ladder or series and the concencious was for series. No idea why but when electrical engineers are saying it, I listen.
I've heard a hattor, it was decent but suffered the same traits all passives do. I prefer active/unity gain.
Good luck with the mods to the croft, I'll look forward to the pics [emoji6]
Anyone heard the Hattor active tube stage with the Hattie passive?
What's nice is the ability to switch it out easily, so you can listen in active or passive modes depending on mood.
It is about twice the price of the passive unfortunately.
anubisgrau
08-12-2018, 09:15
A bare Slagle AVC was $200. Don't tell me any RVC kills it?
What is KIN? Any links?
Bigman80
08-12-2018, 09:33
A bare Slagle AVC was $200. Don't tell me any RVC kills it?
What is KIN? Any links?Firebottle KIN - Valve preamp, with or without phonostage. Made by Firebottle of this forum.
RVC - Relay volume control, cheap as chips Chinese passive preamp. Exceptional sound for £100 but not perfect.
Simon_LDT
08-12-2018, 11:26
Indeed, Oliver, this is what I am going to do. I'll have Khozmo attenuators fitted into the Croft. I hope (and expect) that the final result will be even better than my current overkill preamp combination. But that recent experiment has been quite enlightening.
Now the question is whether I should go for shunt or series attenuators. Arek favors shunt...
I understand that Josie has significant experience with Khozmo attenuators in her Croft preamp for several years now.
Go with a series attenuator. Not that there is anything wrong with a shunt but I don't buy their supposed advantage over a series because of 2 issues:
1. Impedance changes as you rotate through the attenuation range
2. If any of the contacts fail for whatever reason, the volume will go full (no attenuation) so likely to destroy speakers.
The Slagle AVC has been described to me by a EE, as a attenuator, that works as a filter, that will have a suppression of a full frequency range. I was informed a Slagle could be measured and a simple filter could be produced, allowing the frequency range to be matched to the frequency range of the Slagle.
This will allow for a lot less wire to be used in the circuitry of the signal path, so technically this will be more in keeping with a minimalistic topology philospophy.
The Slagle AVC is a Volume Control, and as such a device, is not a traditional Pre-amp by design.
I suppose a question of interest relating to this thread would be,
How will a Slagle AVC, compare against a Khozmo, DACT, or ADSA in a DCB1, as a Volume Control.
I at present have a Slagle AVC with a built in head phone input, and I use as it as my go to Volume Control over the other choices I have.
I am curious to compare the stand alone Slagle AVC, to other devices, just to see where the division in performance is perceived to be for the better in relation to my tastes.
As for the comparisons, as a person who does not get out to listen to live music on a regular basis,
any comparisons I do are not based on how a device produces a reproduction, that in my mind resembles the overall effect of the live performance with a type of Honesty.
My comparisons are done to assess if a device can create a performance that appears to be a perceived improvement and creates a stimulus to the senses.
If I were to follow the comparison method that I don't use, the reality 'may be' that I would need to uproot from my system devices that I value and start looking for their replacements :eek:
" That's not going to Happen "
Bigman80
08-12-2018, 12:55
The Slagle AVC has been described to me by a EE, as a attenuator, that works as a filter, that will have a suppression of a full frequency range. I was informed a Slagle could be measured and a simple filter could be produced, allowing the frequency range to be matched to the frequency range of the Slagle.
This will allow for a lot less wire to be used in the circuitry of the signal path, so technically this will be more in keeping with a minimalistic topology philospophy.
The Slagle AVC is a Volume Control, and as such a device, is not a traditional Pre-amp by design.
I suppose a question of interest relating to this thread would be,
How will a Slagle AVC, compare against a Khozmo, DACT, or ADSA in a DCB1, as a Volume Control.
I at present have a Slagle AVC with a built in head phone input, and I use as it as my go to Volume Control over the other choices I have.
I am curious to compare the stand alone Slagle AVC, to other devices, just to see where the division in performance is perceived to be for the better in relation to my tastes.
As for the comparisons, as a person who does not get out to listen to live music on a regular basis,
any comparisons I do are not based on how a device produces a reproduction, that in my mind resembles the overall effect of the live performance with a type of Honesty.
My comparisons are done to assess if a device can create a performance that appears to be a perceived improvement and creates a stimulus to the senses.
If I were to follow the comparison method that I don't use, the reality 'may be' that I would need to uproot from my system devices that I value and start looking for their replacements :eek:
" That's not going to Happen "Nobody, and I mean nobody, wants a system that replicates live music. That's a PA system and its crap.
The Slagle was excellent but I prefer what the DCB1 does and to me, it really gives a lot of what I'd expect to find in the studio.
A bakeoff needs to happen at some point
montesquieu
08-12-2018, 13:11
Nobody, and I mean nobody, wants a system that replicates live music. That's a PA system and its crap.
Totally agreed on that.
Also much preferred my DCB1 to any TVC or passive attenuator I tried, including £5k's worth of Music First Audio TVC.
Bigman80
08-12-2018, 13:12
Totally agreed on that.
Also much preferred my DCB1 to any TVC or passive attenuator I tried, including £5k's worth of Music First Audio TVC.And agreed on that!
Hoping that I am not hi-jacking this thread, I would like to contribute my experience with stepped attenuators, if I may.
There has been a lot of debate among fellow audiophiles about the comparison of passive and active preamps. Each side had certain advantages to propose. I have a top-of-the-line Croft preamp, the Micro 25RSLS (line only), upgraded by Glenn.
24845
But I took the plunge and purchased a passive Hattor dual-mono preamp (the higher-end brand that Arek Kallas, the owner of Khozmo, has on offer).
24846
24847
My Hattor passive preamp uses Khozmo shunt attenuators with z-foil resistors. In comparison to the Croft preamp, the Hattor was more transparent, more detailed, but simultaneously somewhat "thinner" and smaller in body. The passive preamp sounded more neutral, more precise, whereby the Croft sounded more alive, with greater body and more realistic. I could not say that the one was better than the other one on all points. I liked several qualities in both preamps.
And then it dawned at me. What if I could combine the best of each preamp?
So, I decided to make a small experiment. More specifically I decided to bypass the low-cost pots of the Croft (Tocos) and use the Hattor as a volume control upstream the Croft. In other words, I connected all sources (phono stage and DAC) to the Hattor and then I connected the Hattor output to one of the Croft's inputs. Interconnect cables for that connection were Mark Grant HDX1. All other interconnects were Belden 8428.
24843
24844
The result? REALLY, really interesting! The combined preamps gave me both the transparency, detail, body and dynamics. The realism of the sound was upgraded. And all that, taking into account that there were additional circuits, binding posts and an extra set of interconnects than before.
After this introduction, I am now seriously thinking of having two Khozmo attenuators with z-foil resistors (similar to the ones in the Hattor preamp) installed inside the Croft preamp. This will allow me to achieve a shorter signal path than what I currently have with my chained preamps. Hopefully a remote control will fit inside the Croft box as well.
I understand that other fellow members have tried Khozmo attenuators, and there seems to be a consensus that series attenuators are better than shunt. I have not had the chance to make such a comparison, but I've liked the shunt attenuators of the Hattor (having followed Arek's recommendation).
I know that commercial (vs. DIY) hi-fi gear is built to a price point, and I have the utmost respect to Croft gear. However, in my humble opinion, I believe that Croft's designs would perform significantly better with upgraded valves (NOS instead of new stock) and switched attenuators (than carbon pots). I hope my comments are not misunderstood, I am just speaking from personal experience.
Certainly agree with NOS valves in the Croft but like all things one needs to tread carefully to see what gains can be had. Some NOS tubes sound better than others and some sound better in different positions in the Croft if you have a regulated version.
I will be interested to hear your comments when you have done some further experimentation with attenuators, obviously Glenn uses dual mono to get around some of the inherent problems of single attenuators. I know of a few folk who have changed the carbon volume pots on Croft preamps only to loose some of the organic sound and have decided to stay with the Tocos pots.
During the 80,s and 90,s Glenn built all sorts of exotic amps with many exotic parts but nothing beats good design and I feel only marginal gains are to be had from foo items, where as simple well designed circuitry is the key. The sheer transparency and live realistic sound you mentioned with great body is exactly what I have with my set up. I know more can be had if I moved to separate power supplies and a separate phono stage and probably mono blocks as you have found yourself. Changing a couple of volume pots in my humble opinion only gives subtle benefits and i would be very cautious to loose the sound I have currently.
But I applaud your endeavours to improve your Croft and look forward to your results.:cool:
Nobody, and I mean nobody, wants a system that replicates live music. That's a PA system and its crap.
Some modern PA systems are absolutely astonishing.
Massive Attack on the Bristol Downs 3 years ago was mind blowingly good. An outdoor venue, the bass was beyond anything I have encountered anywhere. The scale was immense, and what's more, it didn't fail when assessing it with these hi-fi ears. It WAS hi-fi quality.
Likewise, Orbital at the Bristol Downs this year was incredible sonically, too.
First comment from wife as we got near the stage "that's better than your hi-fi". Too f^&*ing right it was. And way better than anything I heard at Munich this year.
So apart from the fact that huge PA systems aren't practical domestically, don't assert they are crap. They are astonishing in the 'best of" cases. Really.
Bigman80
08-12-2018, 16:59
Some modern PA systems are absolutely astonishing.
Massive Attack on the Bristol Downs 3 years ago was mind blowingly good. An outdoor venue, the bass was beyond anything I have encountered anywhere. The scale was immense, and what's more, it didn't fail when assessing it with these hi-fi ears. It WAS hi-fi quality.
Likewise, Orbital at the Bristol Downs this year was incredible sonically, too.
First comment from wife as we got near the stage "that's better than your hi-fi". Too f^&*ing right it was. And way better than anything I heard at Munich this year.
So apart from the fact that huge PA systems aren't practical domestically, don't assert they are crap. They are astonishing in the 'best of" cases. Really.No, I assert that they are crap, in a domestic setting.
No, I assert that they are crap, in a domestic setting.
The systems I mentioned are impossible in a domestic setting.
I know where you are coming from. But the best of them are absolutely amazing, and do things no domestic hi-fi system could ever hope to achieve.
Bigman80
08-12-2018, 17:12
The systems I mentioned are impossible in a domestic setting.
I know where you are coming from. But the best of them are absolutely amazing, and do things no domestic hi-fi system could ever hope to achieve.No, I agree with the idea that the best PA systems do things nothing else can but personally, if I put of an album recorded at Abbey road for instance, I want the system to portray that. I want to hear the mix and the layering, the doubly tracking etc. I don't want it to sound "live" because it wasn't.
I want it to sound real.
"Nobody, and I mean nobody, wants a system that replicates live music."
I do ;)
No, I agree with the idea that the best PA systems do things nothing else can but personally, if I put of an album recorded at Abbey road for instance, I want the system to portray that. I want to hear the mix and the layering, the doubly tracking etc. I don't want it to sound "live" because it wasn't.
I want it to sound real.
Fair point.
Apologies for jumping in, but everyone here (apart from me) seems to know what a PA system is. What does PA stand for? Someone clarify that, please?
Public Address
Public Address? What's a public address system?
montesquieu
08-12-2018, 20:50
Public Address? What's a public address system?
Basically what is generally known as a Tannoy :D
Though the term also extends to the amplification system used by bands for those instruments that don't (unlike, typically, guitar, bass and keyboards) have their own dedicated amplification and speaker setup on stage - typically when a band perform, the vocals at least and often also the drum kit will be mic'd to be amplified via the 'PA' system. The PA also enables vocals and other signals to be routed to monitors in front of the performers so they can hear what other people are doing.
Basically what is generally known as a Tannoy :D
Though the term also extends to the amplification system used by bands for those instruments that don't (unlike, typically, guitar, bass and keyboards) have their own dedicated amplification and speaker setup on stage - typically when a band perform, the vocals at least and often also the drum kit will be mic'd to be amplified via the 'PA' system. The PA also enables vocals and other signals to be routed to monitors in front of the performers so they can hear what other people are doing.
:lol:
montesquieu
08-12-2018, 21:11
The systems I mentioned are impossible in a domestic setting.
I know where you are coming from. But the best of them are absolutely amazing, and do things no domestic hi-fi system could ever hope to achieve.
The most amusing PA-come-hifi system at Munich the year I went was playing Pink Floyd 'The Wall' and consisted of a PA horn stack broadcasting - there is no other word really - to about 100 people. While superficially impressive you wouldn't want that in your living room even if you lived in a barn.
Light Dependant Resistor
08-12-2018, 21:47
A piano is a very good example of a musical instrument when played live and then played back via a recording via hifi audio equipment
should be quite or near perfect - if you strive for perfection to what is heard. A piano is a percussive instrument, it contains rich harmonic
structures making real challenges for audio equipment to reproduce it correctly.
Similarly jazz trio's and quartets should be capable to replicate their natural sound via your audio system
Pink Floyd happen to be rather good at recording electric and acoustic instruments, and at the same time presenting their music
in an acoustic space that suits the meaning of the music. There are many fine moments where they get the sound absolutely correct.
However Pink Floyd via a PA system, has many compromises namely PA systems are not designed for hifi reproduction
A good example of where musicians choose wisely the recording in preference- over the PA sound was Phil Manzanera's 801 live.
The microphones first going to the recording device then following that to the PA system, in so doing preserving what was heard.
The majority of good recordings feed signal to the PA system for the larger audiences benefit - after the recording device.
Changing a couple of volume pots in my humble opinion only gives subtle benefits and i would be very cautious to loose the sound I have currently.
But I applaud your endeavours to improve your Croft and look forward to your results.:cool:
Thanks very much for your encouragement, James. I will report my impressions, as soon as the new Khozmo attenuators have been installed and some critical listening has taken place.
By the way, I was under the impression (conviction?) that my Croft 25RSLS was as transparent and realistic as could be. Until I bypassed the Tocos pots and used the Hattor dual mono passive as a volume control. Definitely not the optimal solution in terms of hardware economy, but the sonic improvement was substantial and definitely not marginal. It was supposed to be an experiment to showcase the effect that pots play in the sound quality. Well, I can say it was equal (or even more) to the improvement I got, when I had the 'standard' Micro 25 preamp upgraded to 'R' spec by Glenn. Croft owners may understand what I mean. I would not call that improvement marginal.
Now, if I install Khozmo series attenuators inside the Croft preamp box (and get rid of all binding posts and interconnects I now have in the Hattor+Croft combination), I expect (and hope) that the result will be even better. And I am not even referring to the greater ease-of-use thanks to the remote control. I am focusing entirely on sound quality here.
The caveat is that when a system improves, it makes the distance between good and mediocre/bad recordings even bigger. Recordings that used to be OK in the past, may be unsatisfactory from now on. Hmmm...
Bigman80
09-12-2018, 00:54
Thanks very much for your encouragement, James. I will report my impressions, as soon as the new Khozmo attenuators have been installed and some critical listening has taken place.
By the way, I was under the impression (conviction?) that my Croft 25RSLS was as transparent and realistic as could be. Until I bypassed the Tocos pots and used the Hattor dual mono passive as a volume control. Definitely not the optimal solution in terms of hardware economy, but the sonic improvement was substantial and definitely not marginal. It was supposed to be an experiment to showcase the effect that pots play in the sound quality. Well, I can say it was equal (or even more) to the improvement I got, when I had the 'standard' Micro 25 preamp upgraded to 'R' spec by Glenn. Croft owners may understand what I mean. I would not call that improvement marginal.
Now, if I install Khozmo series attenuators inside the Croft preamp box (and get rid of all binding posts and interconnects I now have in the Hattor+Croft combination), I expect (and hope) that the result will be even better. And I am not even referring to the greater ease-of-use thanks to the remote control. I am focusing entirely on sound quality here.
The caveat is that when a system improves, it makes the distance between good and mediocre/bad recordings even bigger. Recordings that used to be OK in the past, may be unsatisfactory from now on. Hmmm...What you have to remember is, Jimbo is incredibly happy with the sound he gets from his rig. Lots of people I speak to are in a similar position.
That doesn't mean they are striving for the same thing as you/me/someone else, and that they now have achieved perfection. It is *their* perfection and that's why Jim and others are reluctant to make changes, which is totally understandable.
I've heard James's setup and it was simply superb, so much so, it inspired me to do more with my own system.
BUT, is it Ultimately accurate?
Impossible to say because to Jim, what may be accurate, to me/you/someone, maybe not. I have been in this scenario multiple times and have learned that even my own system, that I love, to someone else may be shit.
You heard what you heard when you swapped out the TOCOS for the Hattor and my money says you're on the right path in getting a couple of Khozmos in there.
There won't be a loss of organics, there will be more. That's what happened with Alan's Firebottle KIN. In fact, it was so good I am still thinking about it.
Trust in what you're doing and you'll be rewarded with a great result.
Light Dependant Resistor
09-12-2018, 03:26
Accuracy requires the original recording, capturing the players, venue, acoustic to all be reproduced
so each instrument is heard with the others, as it was recorded. The best recordings assist with this by giving
you photo images of the players and recording venue.
As can be seen by differing opinions of one type over the other, there is far more to attenuation than we first think, if accuracy is the goal needed.
Broadening your horizons to encompass the other types of attenuators other than potentiometers and switched attenuators,
gives much needed perspective.
What you have to remember is, Jimbo is incredibly happy with the sound he gets from his rig. Lots of people I speak to are in a similar position.
Yes, Olie, I understand Jimbo's position. It's perhaps what we all feel about our systems, until we try some kind of upgrade and -when it's successful- we ask ourselves why we had not tried that earlier.
My personal goal is to get the maximum out of a design / device with judicious tweaks. And I am happy to experience that Croft designs have A LOT of hidden potential. The pots and perhaps the input selector definitely have room for improvement, hence my choice of Khozmo attenuators. Perhaps there are other parts in the Croft amps that can be upgraded and achieve better, clearly discernible performance.
By the way, although logic said that I could do well with a well-built, dual mono passive preamp (a.k.a. Hattor) and get rid of the active preamp stage (a.k.a. Croft), my trial showed that the passive stage provide great neutrality and transparency, but the active stage brings "life" back to the music. Perhaps it injects distortion, which is perceived as "life", but after all "perception is reality", isn't it?
So, closing a full circle, the objective is to combine the best traits of the Hattor and the Croft, inside the Croft box. That's my short story so far.
When I was talking about a systems performance as a comparison to a live performance, I was not referring to whether I thought a system could be capable to produce the comparative sound of a Rock Concert or the like.
I was referring more towards a A cappella, or small group performances from any genre.
If a system were to be identified as having a capability to closely match a live rendition, then it would be a
attractor to know that there is a honesty being produced in the replays.
As stated earlier, this is not a route I would foresee myself going down, I like the stimulus from the effect of a assembly of devices, and as said each to their own on this one.
Does a Footy Match get any better if watched on BBC, ITV, Cable TV or from the Stands.
I am certainly a armchair type, who once in a while likes to see a performer in the flesh.
Firebottle
09-12-2018, 08:21
My personal goal is to get the maximum out of a design / device with judicious tweaks.
I think this sums up my approach as well, although I have recently spent on TT upgrades that are larger than 'tweaks'.
Now the AD attenuator has been in for a few days all the usual favourite albums have been played, plus a couple of others.
The improvement has been amazing, I am even hearing a better sound from DAB radio at 128kbps, insane.
(Not much but an improvement given the source).
One of the most notable changes has been to the lower registers, they are palpably more distinct. The effect is to underpin the sound with what you could describe as better foundations to a building.
The bass and midbass is now an integrated part of the sound, not drawing any adverse attention, no bloat but tremendous impact when there should be. Kick drums come over with a solidity and power that wasn't apparent before.
The rest of the spectrum has opened out as well, cymbals tinkle more, individual instruments are placed more distinctly. Multiple voices are now all individual such that you can enjoy the performance more due to hearing everyone's contribution.
The power and rasp of brass instruments has come to the fore, I even heard greater nuances on the Yello Toy album, which has been played a lot.
Another big bonus is that CD reproduction has taken a leap forward, now instead of wishing the CD was a vinyl record, I can enjoy the medium without thinking it needs a big upgrade to compete.
Now that's a very pleasant surprise :trust:
In conclusion the best single upgrade I have made................
I have been counting up the upgrades over the last 12 months and they total 7. I'll put these into a new thread.
:D
The most amusing PA-come-hifi system at Munich the year I went was playing Pink Floyd 'The Wall' and consisted of a PA horn stack broadcasting - there is no other word really - to about 100 people. While superficially impressive you wouldn't want that in your living room even if you lived in a barn.Silbatone?
That was a cinema PA made in the 1920s.
Amazeballs playing Led Zeppelin Whole Lotta Love. Arguably not hi-fi in that you could hear distortion quite easily. Still, it did things many rooms could not. And generally had one of the highest attendances if the show.
The Silbatone room generally blows minds every year. But it is a bit of a cheat I think. There's a good measure of modern fettling of old gear going on.
"Another big bonus is that CD reproduction has taken a leap forward, now instead of wishing the CD was a vinyl record, I can enjoy the medium without thinking it needs a big upgrade to compete.
Now that's a very pleasant surprise ".
I support you all the way with this statement, the recently acquired DAC left me 'Bedazzled' on the ground the CD gained on the Vinyl set up.
Firebottle
09-12-2018, 09:29
Excellent John :thumbsup:
Great stuff, Alan!
I've also received an unexpected (i.e. greater than expected) sonic upgrade with the Khozmo attenuators in the Hattor passive preamp. If I can further build on that, and simplify the signal path by putting (new) Khozmo series attenuators (to replace the Tocos) AND a better input selector inside the Croft box, I will be more than happy.
In my case the cliche stands true... It's like a veil has been lifted. I am already getting far more layering between instruments and voices in space, everything is clearer and more transparent. Closer to reality than ever before.
We always believe we've reached the top performance of our gear, until we somehow manage to squeeze some extra performance. And then we think (again) we've reached the top, until there's more to squeeze.
Keep walkin'!
Yes, Olie, I understand Jimbo's position. It's perhaps what we all feel about our systems, until we try some kind of upgrade and -when it's successful- we ask ourselves why we had not tried that earlier.
My personal goal is to get the maximum out of a design / device with judicious tweaks. And I am happy to experience that Croft designs have A LOT of hidden potential. The pots and perhaps the input selector definitely have room for improvement, hence my choice of Khozmo attenuators. Perhaps there are other parts in the Croft amps that can be upgraded and achieve better, clearly discernible performance.
By the way, although logic said that I could do well with a well-built, dual mono passive preamp (a.k.a. Hattor) and get rid of the active preamp stage (a.k.a. Croft), my trial showed that the passive stage provide great neutrality and transparency, but the active stage brings "life" back to the music. Perhaps it injects distortion, which is perceived as "life", but after all "perception is reality", isn't it?
So, closing a full circle, the objective is to combine the best traits of the Hattor and the Croft, inside the Croft box. That's my short story so far.
Panos you have certainly worked out the pros and cons of an active rather than a passive preamp. I too have been down this path and come to the conclusion I prefer active for the same reasons as yourself. I do understand the merits of passive but so far have not found them to my suiting. I am surprised and interested in your evaluation of different volume pots but am not sure if other areas can give bigger gains i.e. better caps? This is certainly the route Glenn Croft has taken when adding foo items too preamps in the past. I suspect all manner of critical items in the path of the circuit and signal can benefit from upgrades. Maybe I will ask Glenn which he thinks give the biggest bang for bucks!:)
As Oliver had kindly mentioned I have a system that I rarely change anymore has it has the sound I am looking for and experimentation this year with various aspects has only taken away some of the sound quality. I must mention one item which has been my upgrade of the year and that was the SPOTFIRE cable, designed and built by Oliver. This is an extraordinary good cable which gave a huge performance upgrade in my system on many levels especially capacitance compatibility with my 2M Black cartridge which was an issue. I know some folk are sceptical of cables but the SPOTFIRE in my system was superb.
Future plans for my system include separating the PSU from the 25R and making it a 2 box line stage only preamp and then running an RIAA R phono stage through this. I may ask Glenn to add some foo to the line stage if he thinks there would be any benefits - maybe dual mono?
I look forward to reading your assessment of the new volume pots when you have got round to sorting them. Do you do the work yourself Panos?
anubisgrau
09-12-2018, 11:20
I think this sums up my approach as well, although I have recently spent on TT upgrades that are larger than 'tweaks'.
Now the AD attenuator has been in for a few days all the usual favourite albums have been played, plus a couple of others.
The improvement has been amazing, I am even hearing a better sound from DAB radio at 128kbps, insane.
(Not much but an improvement given the source).
One of the most notable changes has been to the lower registers, they are palpably more distinct. The effect is to underpin the sound with what you could describe as better foundations to a building.
The bass and midbass is now an integrated part of the sound, not drawing any adverse attention, no bloat but tremendous impact when there should be. Kick drums come over with a solidity and power that wasn't apparent before.
The rest of the spectrum has opened out as well, cymbals tinkle more, individual instruments are placed more distinctly. Multiple voices are now all individual such that you can enjoy the performance more due to hearing everyone's contribution.
The power and rasp of brass instruments has come to the fore, I even heard greater nuances on the Yello Toy album, which has been played a lot.
Another big bonus is that CD reproduction has taken a leap forward, now instead of wishing the CD was a vinyl record, I can enjoy the medium without thinking it needs a big upgrade to compete.
Now that's a very pleasant surprise :trust:
In conclusion the best single upgrade I have made................
I have been counting up the upgrades over the last 12 months and they total 7. I'll put these into a new thread.
:D
ever tried a good AVC like slagle in place of the these fancy new attenuators?
i'm asking because people keep on telling me that the new stuff (KIN, DCB1) sounds better than slagle AVC which is technically speaking wrong comparison - active device vs passive volume controller. yes it can be done but we should be clear that we don't listen to differences between fixed and variable output impedance.
Maybe I will ask Glenn which he thinks give the biggest bang for bucks!:)
...
Yes, James, it would be great to have Glenn's opinion about the best value-for-money upgrades. Being an owner of Croft great since 1989, and having had various Croft amps upgraded by Glenn, I know for a fact that Glenn is very cautious with words. Improvements that me and you would describe as "magnificent", "unbelievable", etc., Glenn would say "it works well". Understatement is a built-in characteristic of Glenn.
Your thinking is definitely in the right direction, which I've taken to where I am now. My Croft preamp (Micro 25RSLS, line stage only, with external power supply), is theoretically top-of-the-line for Croft. It is obvious though, that more is to be had... Croft gear seems to have no end in improvement potential.
I will definitely report my impressions, as soon as I have finished with the new pots. But no, I do not do such upgrades myself. I prefer to have them done by experts.
Hi Panos,
any news on the khozmo attenuators in the Croft yet? I look forward to hearing your thoughts on this.
Hi Panos,
any news on the khozmo attenuators in the Croft yet? I look forward to hearing your thoughts on this.
Hi James,
as a matter of fact, my Croft preamp reached Poland a couple of days ago. Arek (of Khozmo/Hattor) is going to fit dual mono attenuators in the Croft, plus an upgraded input selector and a remote control. We have been discussing with Arek which attenuator type is the most appropriate. I mentioned that most forum members, who've used Khozmo attenuators, seem to prefer the series type. But those -according to Arek- cannot be provided with a remote control. Therefore, Arek suggests wither shunt type (which I have tested in the Hattor passive preamp and is very good) or the ladder type (which has been used in high-end, rather expensive implementations).
Regardless which attenuator type we'll eventually choose, it's not a simple pots replacement. Arek will have to shift the tubes to the right to make some space for the new attenuators and the input selector. I hope that the upgrade is finished in a couple of weeks or so (depending on Arek's workload) and I should receive the Croft preamp by the end of January. Fingers crossed!
(Patience is a virtue! ??)
Bigman80
31-12-2018, 14:17
Hi James,
as a matter of fact, my Croft preamp reached Poland a couple of days ago. Arek (of Khozmo/Hattor) is going to fit dual mono attenuators in the Croft, plus an upgraded input selector and a remote control. We have been discussing with Arek which attenuator type is the most appropriate. I mentioned that most forum members, who've used Khozmo attenuators, seem to prefer the series type. But those -according to Arek- cannot be provided with a remote control. Therefore, Arek suggests wither shunt type (which I have tested in the Hattor passive preamp and is very good) or the ladder type (which has been used in high-end, rather expensive implementations).
Regardless which attenuator type we'll eventually choose, it's not a simple pots replacement. Arek will have to shift the tubes to the right to make some space for the new attenuators and the input selector. I hope that the upgrade is finished in a couple of weeks or so (depending on Arek's workload) and I should receive the Croft preamp by the end of January. Fingers crossed!
(Patience is a virtue! ??)Yes, good point. To mod the Croft for Stepped Attenuators you will need a small alteration to the guts to fit them in. That said, Alan is very local and overqualified to do the mod.
James, go for it!
montesquieu
31-12-2018, 14:25
Just a word of caution before you start modding kit in a major/potentially irreversible way, some of us have tried stepped attenuators including high quality ones, and gone back to film pots.
Sonic improvement are NOT a given, but a matter of opinion. Many top manufacturers use film pots, not on cost grounds but in the belief that there is no sonic penalty while at the same time, the convenience of a film pot and its infinite adjustability outweighs any notional benefit from ladder attenuators.
Personally I've never warmed to stepped attenuators at all. One thing they do do is make correct gain structure even more critical, making too much gain in a system even more of a no-no.
Sorry to be a dissenting voice here but it's too easy to get carried away with a one-sided view of things.
Just a word of caution before you start modding kit in a major/potentially irreversible way, some of us have tried stepped attenuators including high quality ones, and gone back to film pots.
...Sonic improvement are NOT a given, but a matter of opinion...
I've personally decided to proceed to the replacement of the carbon pots in the Croft, after I had tried the Hattor passive preamp (bypassing the pots in the Croft). The difference was far from minute. The result was one order of magnitude (whatever this may mean) more transparency, more detail, more realism. Yes, I agree, the cost of the Khozmo attenuators are two orders of magnitude more expensive than the carbon pots in the Croft, but in hi-fi terms we know that much more money is usually spent for far smaller improvements.
Hence my decision to proceed with the replacement of the carbon pots. Let's hope that this trial of mine will not be followed by an error. And if that is the case, I am open enough to admit it. -))
montesquieu
31-12-2018, 14:48
I've personally decided to proceed to the replacement of the carbon pots in the Croft, after I had tried the Hattor passive preamp (bypassing the pots in the Croft). The difference was far from minute. The result was one order of magnitude (whatever this may mean) more transparency, more detail, more realism. Yes, I agree, the cost of the Khozmo attenuators are two orders of magnitude more expensive than the carbon pots in the Croft, but in hi-fi terms we know that much more money is usually spent for far smaller improvements.
Hence my decision to proceed with the replacement of the carbon pots. Let's hope that this trial of mine will not be followed by an error. And if that is the case, I am open enough to admit it. -))
Well at a minimum, you need to be able to get along with jumps in volume that may or may not delivery the sound level you want to listen at.
That's where the main issue is for me. Even relays with 99 steps can fail the acceptability test in my book, never mind your typical 24 or 32 step device.
Well at a minimum, you need to be able to get along with jumps in volume that may or may not delivery the sound level you want to listen at.
That's where the main issue is for me. Even relays with 99 steps can fail the acceptability test in my book, never mind your typical 24 or 32 step device.
Tom,
The Hattor dual-mono passive preamp, when used on its own (i.e. without any active preamplification) has 64 steps. IME the useful range (in my system and room) is between 36 and 54 (with 63 or 64 being the maximum on the display, IIRC), i.e. from very quiet up to quite loud.
When combined with the active Croft preamp, the useful range became wider. Not once did I find that there was not enough resolution between two consecutive steps.
So, for me, that's to a concern. You obviously have different experiences, hence your sensitivity on the subject. It's absolutely understandable to pay attention on points that may have displeased us in the past.
I hope your attenuators work out Panos, I will await the verdict at the end of January!:):cool:
Happy New Year:happynewyear:
I hope your attenuators work out Panos, I will await the verdict at the end of January!:):cool:
Happy New Year:happynewyear:
Thanks for your kind wishes, James. All the best to you and your loved ones for a Healthy and Happy 2019.
And best wishes to all other forum members as well!
Panos
Hello everyone.
It's taken quite some time, but it seems that we are reaching the end of the road with respect to the modification of my Croft Micro25RSLS preamp with dual-mono stepped attenuators of Khozmo/Hattor make. They are shunt with z-foil resistors. The input selector has been changed, as well. And yes, there is a remote control as well.
I should be receiving the modified Croft within the next couple of weeks. Fingers crossed about how it's going to sound. Until then, I can only post a few photos about before and after...
257912579225793
Looking good Panos. May I ask who is doing the work for you? I will be very interested to read your first listening experience with the new attenuators.
Hi James,
the guy doing the modification is Arek Kallas, the designer/owner of Khozmo/Hattor. I am also very interested in the results.
A few months ago, when I had connected (via interconnects) the Hattor dual-mono passive preamp (as the volume controller) and the Croft preamp (as the active preamp stage), the result was better than the sum of the parts. And that's why I decided to proceed with the modification of the Croft internally.
We'll have the verdict in a couple of weeks or so.
Hi James,
the guy doing the modification is Arek Kallas, the designer/owner of Khozmo/Hattor. I am also very interested in the results.
A few months ago, when I had connected (via interconnects) the Hattor dual-mono passive preamp (as the volume controller) and the Croft preamp (as the active preamp stage), the result was better than the sum of the parts. And that's why I decided to proceed with the modification of the Croft internally.
We'll have the verdict in a couple of weeks or so.
Hi Panos, looks cool and very modern, nice you have kept the dual mono design. Hope it all works out and the attenuators make a difference. From the chaps I know who have gone down this route it has been a big improvement.
Lawrence001
18-04-2019, 09:31
Hello everyone.
It's taken quite some time, but it seems that we are reaching the end of the road with respect to the modification of my Croft Micro25RSLS preamp with dual-mono stepped attenuators of Khozmo/Hattor make. They are shunt with z-foil resistors. The input selector has been changed, as well. And yes, there is a remote control as well.
I should be receiving the modified Croft within the next couple of weeks. Fingers crossed about how it's going to sound. Until then, I can only post a few photos about before and after...
257912579225793Looks like it's a beautiful job and brings the Croft bang up to date visually and technologically. Loving the display meters. Not sure what Glenn would make of it, I think you should send him pics (if you haven't already done so) so that he can see what can be done with his amps if one so chooses.
One question, looking at the first photo, this pre seems to have multiple (valve?) regulated external power supplies. How has the impact of the new boards been factored in, and which of the supplies are they drawing off, or has a new supply rail been added?
Sent from my BLN-L21 using Tapatalk
Finally it's here. It may have taken a bit longer than expected, but patience is a virtue!
Enclosed some pics of the upgraded Croft 25RSLS, which now contains Khozmo dual-mono stepped attenuators (shunt with z-foil resistors), upgraded input selector and remote control for both volume and inputs.
At first, quick audition the result is great. Need more time of course to do some critical listening and go into the details. Aesthetically, the outside looks like no intervention has taken place at all. Immaculate job by Arek Kallas of Khozmo.
26110
26106
26107
And it has a remote control as well. For both channels together or independently. Wow!
26111
And if you want to compare the internal circuitry, before and after, here it is...
Before...
26114
After...
26112
26113
Thought this might be of some help to Khozmo users.
After a couple of months use the action of my Khozmo started to feel a little indistinct and had lost that positive 'click'. At times it seemed you could almost catch it out in between steps. I found out from the Hifi Collective website that it's possible to adjust the torque setting required to move the switch by one step. Simply move it to its mid position, 24 out of the 48 steps, insert a 2mm metric Allen hex key into the adjustment hole on the side and give it a clockwise partial turn to increase the torque setting. Positive 'click' is now restored and no chance of hitting a half on half off 'mid-position'.
Result! :cool:
You can see the adjustment hole just below the right hand resistor.
http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee462/castle48/Mobile%20Uploads/B8F1C6C4-CB50-430A-A9E7-7BA4F751812C.jpg
Bigman80
25-05-2019, 14:51
And it has a remote control as well. For both channels together or independently. Wow!
26111
And if you want to compare the internal circuitry, before and after, here it is...
Before...
26114
After...
26112
26113Totally forgot you were doing this!
The end result looks sensational. I'm a huge fan.
Bigman80
25-05-2019, 14:52
Thought this might be of some help to Khozmo users.
After a couple of months use the action of my Khozmo started to feel a little indistinct and had lost that positive 'click'. At times it seemed you could almost catch it out in between steps. I found out from the Hifi Collective website that it's possible to adjust the torque setting required to move the switch by one step. Simply move it to its mid position, 24 out of the 48 steps, insert a 2mm metric Allen hex key into the adjustment hole on the side and give it a clockwise partial turn to increase the torque setting. Positive 'click' is now restored and no chance of hitting a half on half off 'mid-position'.
Result! :cool:
You can see the adjustment hole just below the right hand resistor.
http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee462/castle48/Mobile%20Uploads/B8F1C6C4-CB50-430A-A9E7-7BA4F751812C.jpgGreat! I really wanted to play with my Khozmo but didn't want to ruin it. Thanks for the post, I will keep tha in mind.
Totally forgot you were doing this!
The end result looks sensational. I'm a huge fan.
Hi Oliver,
I had almost forgotten myself as well. But finally I received it. The result is VERY good. The voices are realistic like never before. I just need more time to assess the sound without being carried away by the first impression.
A veil has been lifted, more detail can be heard, better separation in space has been achieved. Definitely several steps ahead. The best from the two worlds of passive and active preamps.
Highly recommended (until further notice).
Bigman80
25-05-2019, 15:18
Hi Oliver,
I had almost forgotten myself as well. But finally I received it. The result is VERY good. The voices are realistic like never before. I just need more time to assess the sound without being carried away by the first impression.
A veil has been lifted, more detail can be heard, better separation is space has been achieved. Definitely several steps ahead. The best from the two worlds of passive and active preamps.
Highly recommended (until further notice).Great result and one I completely expected.
Well done!
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