View Full Version : The good Karma cable thread
We're always on the lookout for decent interconnects aren't we and we all know that you can pay a lot of hard earned for them. Since joining this forum I've had my eyes opened to the DIY route with a good choice of cable/plug options, from low budget to more esoteric fare. I have been using the Klotz/MS audio combination for some time and latterly Sommer/ MS audio. I've had the chance to try out some impressive cables from other members too and although good I felt no need to change.
However today Jamie ( Karma67 ) came over, primarily for me to hear his Denon HA500 head amp with a view to buying it, which I did. He also bought a selection of his own DIY cables to get my opinion and also to test them on a system other than his own. We started with the Karma3 which he said gave him the first real indication he was on the right path. The first thing I noticed was the vocals on (s)Nora Jones's Come Away With Me took on a new presence, as though she'd moved forward in the room. There was also an increase in fine detail, notably the swirly sound on the brushes on the drums. We then tried the Karma5 which were ever so slightly more of what the Karma3 produced. Then came the Karma6, the latest version of Jamie's cables. The depth of detail in Dave Gilmour's guitar on The Division bell was astonishing, even down to the finger movements on the strings. Unnoticed before background detail became part of the music, not in a unpleasant way but subtle and interesting, flowing into the overall composition. Bass was still full and warm but with a sense of someone actually playing an instrument and not just floating in the mix.
This is all very promising as Jamie intends to continue researching and building his cables. I tried very hard to steal the Karma6 cables but he's a bit too sharp to let me get away with that. I'm looking forward to hearing the next incarnation when they are ready.
Hi Ian
Would definitely agree with your findings.
Had Jamie here this afternoon. I had already listened to the version 3 now we compared the version 3 to his latest version 6.
I like them enough to buy 2 pair.
Will buy a third pair when shielding has been sorted.
S.
cheers chaps!
im glad you liked them,im also pleased that my findings matched yours,its taken a few weekends to get the right blend so to speak but i think the mk 6 versions are spot on,they certainly beat anything ive heard to date at least.
once i get the outer sleeving sorted i'll get a loan pair together if anyone's interested.:cool:
Bigman80
25-11-2018, 18:48
cheers chaps!
im glad you liked them,im also pleased that my findings matched yours,its taken a few weekends to get the right blend so to speak but i think the mk 6 versions are spot on,they certainly beat anything ive heard to date at least.
once i get the outer sleeving sorted i'll get a loan pair together if anyone's interested.:cool:I'm up for a loan mate.
yep no probs :cool:
Hi Jamie
I think you'll need to make a list mate.
S...
Cheers Steve, I’d better get the sleeving sorted pdq!
bronzeage
30-11-2018, 12:22
I'm a big cable believer - put me down for the loan list too (if there is one).
No probs Marcus. All being well I’ll start a list next week, I’m still trying to eek out a bit more from them at the weekend
Looking forward to hearing the MK7 Sunday, and some other rare audio treats
Hi Ian
See you sunday, new dcb1 turbo, Dynaudios and stands
S.
yep it should be a good day,more importantly for me the chance to compare my interconnects with the spotfires and audioquests,i shall be taking notes :D
yep it should be a good day,more importantly for me the chance to compare my interconnects with the spotfires and audioquests,i shall be taking notes :D
Hi Jamie
As you know, in my system the Diamondbacks have always performed extremely well and will take some beating.
Your version 3 and 6 just pipped them so I'm looking forward to hearing the Mk7
S.
i'll do my best mate,i sometimes think it would be a lot easier just to just buy some diamondbacks,they are excellent in sound and the build quality is fantastic especially the rca plugs, but as the man who's just discovered she's a lady boy said, "oh sod it ive come this far" :lol:
Just to update this thread, the cables want before a judicial panel of well seasoned pro’s and the final design was chosen.
I’ll try to sort out a loan pair this weekend so if anyone’s interested please let me know :)
bronzeage
04-12-2018, 15:34
Bigman80 and myself have already indicated we are up for a loan, at least that's still the case for me.
I can compare to four other interconnects, from cheap to pretty expensive.
Bigman80
04-12-2018, 15:39
Bigman80 and myself have already indicated we are up for a loan, at least that's still the case for me.
I can compare to four other interconnects, from cheap to pretty expensive.Yep, still interested mate.
cheers fella's
ok so as i said,i should be able to make a loan pair on sunday,bear with me on the cable sleeve its work in progress lol.
1. bronzeage.
2. bigman80.
3.YNWaN
I believe Jamie is intending to send me a set to try and I’m looking forward to it :) ....
nonuffin
04-12-2018, 19:04
Is this just you having a little play and dabble Jamie, or are you thinking about building and selling them?
If it's the latter then I can review them if you wish and put it up for public consumption on my review website.
I believe Jamie is intending to send me a set to try and I’m looking forward to it :) ....
yes mark,ive added you to the list :cool:
Is this just you having a little play and dabble Jamie, or are you thinking about building and selling them?
If it's the latter then I can review them if you wish and put it up for public consumption on my review website.
if im honest im not sure at the moment,lets see how the reviews go next week.
1. bronzeage.
2. bigman80.
3.YNWaN
4.brian2957
Bigman80
07-12-2018, 13:08
Sound!! Looking forward to hearing them mate.
well ive made the loan pair up today,KLE copper harmony rca's used.
im going to put some hours on them and then they can go to the first person on the list on wednesday. :cool:
https://i.postimg.cc/526C8T05/IMG-2875.jpg
Bigman80
09-12-2018, 14:57
Managed to get them shielded mate?
nope i didnt bother with these,i get no hum through cd player.
these are work in progress,i will make adjustment based on feedback from users
Bigman80
09-12-2018, 15:14
nope i didnt bother with these,i get no hum through cd player.
these are work in progress,i will make adjustment based on feedback from usersAh, ok. I have a CDP now so I will give them a listen. I'll try them from Phonostage to pre too. See what happens. Looking forward to these.
just to add they about 650mm long
Wakefield Turntables
09-12-2018, 18:44
Can you put me down for a loan please.
sure no probs,
1. bronzeage.
2. bigman80.
3.YNWaN
4.brian2957
5. rexton
Can you add me go the loan list please
Martin.
Yep no probs,
1. bronzeage.
2. bigman80.
3.YNWaN
4.brian2957
5. rexton
6. Hammer
Johnny nocash
10-12-2018, 20:30
Make me lucky number 7 please Jamie
ole barry sheens number! :cool:
1. bronzeage.
2. bigman80.
3.YNWaN
4.brian2957
5. rexton
6. Hammer
7. johnny nocash
if anyone needs more than 650mm let me know,i should be able to make a 1 meter pair at the weekend for loan.
Hi Jamie 1 meter would be better for me
Thanks Martin
ok,ive ordered the materials to make a 1meter pair up(at the weekend) so if you guys dont mind waiting a few more days i'll get it sent out this coming monday.
Looking forward to Jamie bring his latest cables over here this weekend for my delectation, he'd better count them as I'll be trying to swipe a pair while he's not looking.
bronzeage
14-12-2018, 09:24
Just to be sure - nothing has been sent out yet, right? As nothing has come my way so far, so presumably the 65cm cable never got sent out, and I will be receiving the 1m cable early next week.
Either that, or the postal service is on a go-slow this time of year.
No mate I was going to send out the pair together on Monday but if the shorter ones ok for you I’ll bung it in the post tomorrow if you like
bronzeage
14-12-2018, 11:28
No problem, I will wait for the 1M pair - will be easier for me to setup without having to shift gear around.
hi,i now have a 800mm pair made up,sorry i made a balls up with the sleeving :doh:
they will be sent out to the first person on the list monday evening via next day delivery :cool: after youv'e given them a listen please contact the next person on the list and send out using a tracked insured service.
thanks and i await feedback.
hi,i now have a 800mm pair made up,sorry i made a balls up with the sleeving :doh:
they will be sent out to the first person on the list monday evening via next day delivery :cool: after youv'e given them a listen please contact the next person on the list and send out using a tracked insured service.
thanks and i await feedback.
Hi Jamie
Good luck with the cables mate, ive had the pleasure of all versions and can say they're great sounding.
Congrats on your new phono stage too!!!!!!!
Steve..
thanks steve,the cables have been posted tonight,ive put both pairs in.:cool:
bronzeage
19-12-2018, 10:10
Glad to say the cables have arrived safe and sound.
So, here are my first impressions, after an evening that turned out to be more than I expected.
The looks: Hmm, quite unusual, I would have to describe as like a ribbon. I can feel some very solid wires with some kind of puffy filler. Obviously still have that 'home-made' look, but honestly, it's no big deal. They are very, very light, compared to my other interconnects, the bullet plugs themselves have little weight to add. Despite looking kind of fat, they are really very flexible, I found it very easy to get them hooked up.
The current setup: PC (with Fidelizer pro) -> Chord USB -> Schiit bifrost multi-bit dac -> RFC Venus -> ifi Tube 2 buffer (acting as preamp) -> RFC Venus -> direct imputs of Onkyo 9070 in power-amp mode -> TQ Black II -> Proac Tablette Anniversary
I decided to go straight to a punishing test track - Stratus, by Billy Cobham (US 16 bit release from streamed from Qobuz). One of the most iconic 70s jazz fusion tracks, that can induce an ear splitting headache during the splashy, frenetic drum solos. I have been trying to get this track to play nice for longer than I can remember. The 24 bit remaster tames it, to the point of making it dead, so really not any use to me.
Change 1: Replace the cable from pre to power with 1M Karma. Immediate loss of volume. OK, turn it up a bit more then. Sounds.. OK. Clearly some loss of 'energy', for want of a better word, and the treble not as refined, but less forward, and the bass loses some impact, but there is a nice overall balance: the lower frequencies, while less plump, are a bit easier to make out. The splashy cymbals have at least calmed down a fair bit, and sound stage seems to have moved back a few rows. The sound reminds me of a TQ Ultra Black interconnect that passed my way. It's really quite pleasant, but the instruments have lost some of their realism and texture detail, so there is work to do.
Change 2. Replace the cable from dac to pre with 65cm Karma. Further loss of volume! Turn it up a bit more again. Now we are into easy listening territory, the edges are very much blunted. I'm feeling pretty mellow now, but if I wanted a Bose sound, I would buy a Bose.
Change 3. Replace the cable from pre to power with RFC Venus. Ah. Volume back up, energy back up, bass fatter and better defined. Overall balance, very nice, the drum solos are almost bearable. Very strange, I was not expecting this, I thought the first cable would completely dictate the sound. Still not quite spot-on with treble refinement.
Change 4. Swap the two cables over. Oh, so now some aspects have improved, but the forward nature has returned somewhat, the overall balance not as good as change 3.
At this point, it is pretty clear the RFC is the more transparent cable, so I'm left thinking that either this track is impossible, or I just need better kit. Then I noticed that my Studio Connections power cable was connected to my amp, I must have switched it over during some experiment and forgot about it. Frankly, I did not think it would make much difference, but I swapped it over to the dac, and switched its power cable (self assembled with all Furutech parts) over to the amp (Change 5)
Oooh. Much better! Kind of hard to describe exactly, the everything has become more 3-D, the tone of everything more natural. Those splashy cymbals have more of their own space and natural ring.
Change 6: OK, swap the interconnects back over again (as per Change 3)! Very nice balance now, it sounds..really good.
Change 7: All Karma cables. Nope, nowhere near as good as Change 6, sorry.
At this point, frankly, I was sick of Stratus! So, to finish the evening off, I played what I knew was a very well recorded track, Soothing, by Laura Marling. Wow, what a difference! This sounded spectacular! This was like my own private concert, I have never heard it as good as this. The bass is full, powerful, but controlled. Laura's voice is rich, velvety, but oh-so-clear. The lyrics are revealed to me like never before.
I will update again in a few days - I have to switch back to all RFC Venus to see how that plays out.
Oh, and to eliminate that tube buffer having any bad effect, I did also try direct into the amp in integrated mode. Frankly, whatever cable I used, yuck! It sounded grey and flat in comparison. I really need a better amp ...
So a mini-conclusion is - the Karma, with my current kit and in my room, does improve the balance when used between dac and pre. I think that maybe says more about my kit, as, on pure technical merits, the Venus is obviously more transparent, so what is passing through needs to be good.
Next time, I will also compare to some other interconnects.
Brilliant write up Marcus, constructive criticism is very much welcome, did you try the smaller cable? It’s slighty different with more hours on it.
I’ve just checked out the price of the rfc Venus, wow £300-400 .
Edit, I see you’ve tried both.
bronzeage
19-12-2018, 14:19
Yes, wow indeed. The cost of the connectors alone costs more than most cables. I can tell you, having had both the Mercury (same cable, but with bullet plugs), they make a hell of a difference.
So not exactly a level playing field, but the whole point it to see what can be done on a budget, right?
Also, to put into context, pretty much the same cable, but assembled by Furutech, costs over £1000 !
You would hope it is something exceptional on that basis.
Of course, cost does not mean good - I did not like the Chord Indigo Tuned Aray one bit when it was lent to me.
The cheaper Chord Signature Tuned Aray however - that was something extra special. I think somebody on these forums claimed they made a clone of it for £15!
bronzeage
20-12-2018, 11:42
A mini-update.
Listened to some TV last night, I have to say I preferred the 1M cable to the 65cm cable, it was a bit smoother and clearer.
Have to say, dialogue very easy to pick out now, the human voice is coming through very naturally.
Will see how that pans out with music tonight.
bronzeage
21-12-2018, 10:40
Mini update #2
Well, for music, the 65cm cable is noticeably better - the magic had gone from Laura with the 1m. I guess the loss of some detail accentuated the voice for TV listening, a bit like the puny speakers in a TV.
Did a quick comparison with all Venus, have to say it's not cut and dried, that combo does pick up more depth cues and little inflections, like the breath of the singer. Have to listen over a longer period. Maybe more Stratus !
The search for an apprentice continues ...
Bigman80
21-12-2018, 10:53
The difference between the two cable lengths could be down to capacitance.
Is there any measurement available on this Jamie?
nope,i just make em and listen,if someone wants to measure them thats fine,although the cables are different in construction so id say its more down to that,the shorter cable has a lot more hours on it also.
Bigman80
21-12-2018, 11:21
nope,i just make em and listen,if someone wants to measure them thats fine,although the cables are different in construction so id say its more down to that,the shorter cable has a lot more hours on it also.Oh, the construction between the 1m and 0.65m are different?
Which one is the MK6 and which is the MK7 or is it different from that?
Oh, the construction between the 1m and 0.65m are different?
Which one is the MK6 and which is the MK7 or is it different from that?
dont worry about what mk they are as it gets confusing,these are what Ian,Steve and i like the best from all the test ones i made,the long pair has a slightly different cable construction which i though id throw in the mix.
Bigman80
21-12-2018, 12:02
dont worry about what mk they are as it gets confusing,these are what Ian,Steve and i like the best from all the test ones i made,the long pair has a slightly different cable construction which i though id throw in the mix.Ok, so which one is the one you, ian and Steve like?
The 1m or the 0.65m pair?
Bigman80
21-12-2018, 12:02
Ok, so which one is the one you, ian and Steve like?
The 1m or the 0.65m pair?Nope, got it. The 0.65. Ok.
sq225917
21-12-2018, 13:33
Change 1: Replace the cable from pre to power with 1M Karma. Immediate loss of volume. OK, turn it up a bit more then. Sounds.. OK. Clearly some loss of 'energy', for want of a better word, and the treble not as refined, but less forward, and the bass loses some impact, but there is a nice overall balance: the lower frequencies, while less plump, are a bit easier to make out. The splashy cymbals have at least calmed down a fair bit, and sound stage seems to have moved back a few rows. The sound reminds me of a TQ Ultra Black interconnect that passed my way. It's really quite pleasant, but the instruments have lost some of their realism and texture detail, so there is work to do.
Marcus, how do you account for the change in volume. Given that the cables don't have resistors in them or impedance matching networks what you suggest is pretty much impossible. Cables don't attenuate signals unles they have potential dividiers in them, and these don't. Could the volume difference have been caused by something else in your system?
bronzeage
21-12-2018, 15:36
It may not be volume in an absolute sense - it could be a reduction in the 'presence' band, that makes the music sound a bit duller, and hence not as loud. The effect is most marked with the 1M cable.
As I did not touch the volume controls, it's hard to think of any external factor.
can these be moved on to the next person on the list please.
Bigman80
28-12-2018, 08:01
can these be moved on to the next person on the list please.Drop me down a space mate. I'm not available for the next week.
bronzeage
28-12-2018, 14:41
Cables on their way to next on the list after big man80.
Thanks for the loan, it was fun comparing, and I fixed some issues I did not know I had.
A final summary: these are not as good to my ears as the Venus, but they are nicely balanced, and could be just the job for others, obviously it comes down to what they might cost. They remind me a lot of TQ ultra black.
They are on their way to me apparently. I will post here once they arrive and with my thoughts (once I have tried them ;)).
I think the postman tried to deliver these cables today - when I was out (he definitely tried to deliver something). I’ll go and pick the undelivered item up tomorrow and we shall see...
cool,i look forward to your findings :cool:
Just to let you know, I have now collected the cables and all is as it should be :). The short cable is way too short for me to use so I won’t be reporting on that I’m afraid. In fact the longer one is still pretty short but I should be able to move stuff around a bit.... I hope....
no worries mark,do what you can with them,i hope you like them.
Well, amazingly I haven’t just sat on my arse today (though I have done quite a lot of that). Instead I have taken a couple of pictures of the Karma cable - I’ve also moved my pre-amp and phonostage a bit closer together, plugged in the longer ofvthe Karma cables and am actually having a listen!
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h90/markemark_2006/Assorted/39466A39-698E-4CE1-93D9-6DE25C3AF954_zps0zyhf4dg.jpg (http://s62.photobucket.com/user/markemark_2006/media/Assorted/39466A39-698E-4CE1-93D9-6DE25C3AF954_zps0zyhf4dg.jpg.html)
I really rather like the carbon fibre sheathing, which is very soft and flexible.
The records I have listened to so far:
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h90/markemark_2006/Assorted/301C8C79-025C-4550-ABB0-09D1C2C6FF96_zpsucvolvvr.jpg (http://s62.photobucket.com/user/markemark_2006/media/Assorted/301C8C79-025C-4550-ABB0-09D1C2C6FF96_zpsucvolvvr.jpg.html)
She Drew The Gun, This Mortal Coil, Massive Attack, Ritual Howls and The Civil Wars.
My first impressions are a very open sound and good detail. Slightly from the mouth as opposed to from the chest in balance. Bass is very tight and tuneful - more dry than rich in texture. The dynamic of small scale pieces is first class. At present I have a small question mark over textural weight (if that makes sense?). Or, to put it another way, is there sufficient swing and wallop? I’ll play a different selection of music tomorrow but, at present, I have to say I’m pretty impressed :).
WOW! thanks for the kinds words,im pleased you like them so far.
ive just had a listen to my original pair again,ive been using some neotech UP-OCC Copper cable as a base reference for a few weeks and id have to agree that the karma cable does bring some background detail up a notch,i also 'get' what you say about the bass,it seems weak on some tracks and good on others but when there is prominent bass, its there and well defined compared to the neotech.
personally i think where karma cable excels is norah jones type music,acoustic guitar,female vocal type of stuff.
big clarity and detail.
its early days though so once you've had a good listen if there are improvements to be made im happy to try and achieve them .:cool:
cheers chaps!
im glad you liked them,im also pleased that my findings matched yours,its taken a few weekends to get the right blend so to speak but i think the mk 6 versions are spot on,they certainly beat anything ive heard to date at least.
once i get the outer sleeving sorted i'll get a loan pair together if anyone's interested.:cool:
Just a thought. I’ve made a few of my own cables in my day, and I borrowed the ground shield from a large diameter cable TV type cable. I cut it into lengths and snatched the plastic centers out. Then pulling the new centers in is the tricky part, but working with just the 90% coverage, stainless groundshield, I could expand it enough to stretch over my cables, and then covered that with a braided cloth covering. They came out looking very professional, I attached the ground shield on one end, and was pleased with the results.
Russell
1. bronzeage.
2.YNWaN
3.bigman80.
4.brian2957
5. rexton
6. Hammer
7. johnny nocash
anyone else like a listen?
brian2957
06-01-2019, 10:22
Hi Jamie , is Oliver still on the list or am I next for these interconnects .
hi brian,he asked to be moved down a turn,perhaps he can confirm if he still would like to have a listen?
otherwise you are next mate.
brian2957
06-01-2019, 12:02
Thanks Jamie
Oliver has just sent me his address so the cables are going there next - perhaps tomorrow but more likely Tuesday as Mondays are super busy for me.
do you have any final thoughts on them please mark?
Cables are now in the post - sorry, as I suspected, I just didn't have time yesterday.
Final thoughts: I was really rather taken with these cables. The sound is particularly good in the upper registers with great decay and a real 'hear in to' quality to the sound. Leading edges of notes are crisp and the sound is fresh and open. Bass is dry and tight and seems to come and go very quickly. When I changed back to my regular cables they sounded quite muted and a touch dull in comparison. However, they also sounded quite a bit more fleshed out in the lower mid/upper bass region and, in general, had a weightier and warmer sound. Vocals had a more of a chest and throat quality rather than the mouth and lips sound of the Karma.
Note: I only tried the longer of the two cables and I didn't notice any weird volume changes when swapping cables over. The cable was used exclusively between my phonostage and pre-amp.
thanks mark for your thoughts,im glad you like them :cool:
Bigman80
09-01-2019, 17:55
Cables arrived safe and sound.
Thanks for the loan Jamie.
Brian, pop your address in a PM mate. I'll get them over to you.
Hi. Can you put me on the list please. Now I've got my hi-fi on casters, its a lot easier for me to swap cables, so definitely want to try these.
brian2957
10-01-2019, 09:43
Cables arrived safe and sound.
Thanks for the loan Jamie.
Brian, pop your address in a PM mate. I'll get them over to you.
PM sent Oliver
Bigman80
10-01-2019, 10:08
Ok mate cool.
But what did you make of them Oliver....?
Bigman80
12-01-2019, 13:12
Post removed
In retrospect I probably shouldn’t have asked one cable maker what they think of another’s work.
In retrospect I probably shouldn’t have asked one cable maker what they think of another’s work.
:D
just to add some balance,these cables were tested throughout various stages on my system and 2 other members systems,1 uses spotfire's throughout.they both preferred karma and both said they would buy them if i made them available. it just goes to show how system dependant these little bits of wire are :eek:
i didnt really start this thread to have them compared against cable xyz,although it had to happen i suppose.
iam more interested in constructive criticism so i can improve them,the above 2 posts are great as it gives me an area to work on. i already have some ideas in that department so once they arrive back ill set to work. :cool:
Bigman80
13-01-2019, 09:45
Post removed
Bigman80
13-01-2019, 09:54
Post removed.
thanks, no need to apologise,no offence was caused at all.:cool:
Bigman80
13-01-2019, 10:00
thanks, no need to apologise,no offence was caused at all.:cool:
I've removed my posts mate. I don't like the idea that you and I could be pushed in to online competition over cables. I think you're a top guy and things like this have a habit of bringing the worst out.
If you want my full verdict, ill email it to you privately, which i should have done in the first place.
More my fault, if there is any, as I did ask you directly to post your thoughts.
brian2957
13-01-2019, 11:07
Please bear in mind Jamie that I am also a cable maker and have sold them to AOS members in the past .
Please bear in mind Jamie that I am also a cable maker and have sold them to AOS members in the past .
yup, a lot of mine were yours.. walpurgis makes cables too.
brian2957
13-01-2019, 11:13
Cheers Grant , I'm next on Jamie's list . Just wanted to make this clear .
walpurgis
13-01-2019, 11:48
walpurgis makes cables too.
I do, but keep reasonably quiet about it 'cos they're so good the demand would be overwhelming! :lol:
I do, but keep reasonably quiet about it 'cos they're so good the demand would be overwhelming! :lol:
indeed they are good. got a set connected between oppo and amp for sacd duties etc.
Please bear in mind Jamie that I am also a cable maker and have sold them to AOS members in the past .
I know that Brian I’ve bought some :)
I don’t want people too hold back with what they think, Oliver should have left his posts and not deleted them.
I do, but keep reasonably quiet about it 'cos they're so good the demand would be overwhelming! :lol:
Now you've let the cat out of the bag:☺
brian2957
13-01-2019, 12:40
I know that Brian I’ve bought some :)
I don’t want people too hold back with what they think, Oliver should have left his posts and not deleted them.
OK mate , no problem :)
Bigman80
13-01-2019, 13:14
I know that Brian I’ve bought some :)
I don’t want people too hold back with what they think, Oliver should have left his posts and not deleted them.No, I'm not interested in any competition mate. I felt it may go that way so off they went. Like I said, if you want my feedback, you can have it privatly. What you do with it is up to you.
I don't compete, I just make what I make and if people like them, cool.
So why not leave your comments up?
They were just your opinion of the cables, nothing more, nothing less.
No one cable will be universally accepted by everybody.
exactly,but if bigman feels he should delete them thats fine.
So why not leave your comments up?
They were just your opinion of the cables, nothing more, nothing less.
No one cable will be universally accepted by everybody.
Absolutely Kevin. Cables are system dependent and perform differently in every system. I have had cables that are £3000 a metre and they have not added anything to my system whereas some £100 cables have sounded superb. This can be applied to any piece of equipment, it all depends on how it sounds in your system.
We are all entitled to an opinion on how we hear something in our system and no one should be offended if they hear it differently. It happens all the time, just look how many folk can't stand the 2M Black yet I have found it to be the best sounding cartridge i have heard in my system!:)
Bigman80
13-01-2019, 17:14
Here is what i originally wrote whilst listening.
I used a varied range of tracks to get a solid understanding of what I was hearing and what they were doing. I spent approximately 5 hours on this and feel my conclusion is thorough.
The review will be based around the tracks I use most regularly to assess new kit.
Up first: Paul Simon – Crazy after all these years.
This song is well mastered and possesses an interesting intro. The Opening riff has a synthesized vibrato effect on the instrument. With the Karma cables, this came across very clearly and precisely. Exactly what I was looking for. As the track moved on to the Vocal intro, I noted that the Soundstage was more centered, rather than spread out. The vocals were also very clean, and the reverb used on Paul’s voice was easily audible. I noted at this point that although clarity was excellent, It was surface. The timbre and the audible movement of air, created by the chest cavity wasn’t there. This made the performance a little less natural. Further into the song, a saxophone solo takes lead. Again, whilst very clean sounding, it didn’t sound convincing as a real instrument. The body from the notes was lacking weight and there was no reed infused sound. No rasping sub notes from the air being forced through the small valve in the mouthpiece.
I decided to change track to: Guns N Roses – Mr Brownstone
This track starts with Heavy drums and Slash sliding down the guitar strings. There’s crunch and venom in the guitar and it’s an all-out, dirty nasty riff.
Straight away, the clarity and leading edge of the drum strikes was clear and again it was a very clean sound but the weight of the drum strike pushing the sound out of the bottom of each drum was shallow. The guitars have crunch and the distortion was very clear but the filth was missing a little. I didn’t feel the weight in my chest as I normally do.
I must admit, I stopped the track to try something else because it wasn’t working for me.
The Beatles - Martha My Dear
This is the first time I really heard the scale the Karma cables could deliver. McCartneys voice sprung out and really soared. The piano Notes clearly had the secondary harmonics from the vibrating strings and it was easily audible. It sounded fantastic. Then the brass section started, and the performance didn’t have the weight. The low notes rumble through this track and it didn’t really rumble. It was audible and clear but it didn’t have enough arse-end for me.
Free – Mr Big has a really low bass note which just didn’t appear where it usually did. Vinyl nor digital really made any difference in this respect. I did this to test if it was a source issue.
I tried the cables with loads of tracks and came to the same conclusion every time. Excellent clarity and immediacy in the highs and top mids. But left me wanting in the mid bass and lower registers. I felt like I was listening to a split personality. Half of the frequency range was clean, transparent, insightful and immediate but the other half was lacking. It was lacking that very bottom octave and it sounded a little slower and flat. Imaging was good, the soundstage depth was good and the sound generally extended beyond the width of the speakers. A good listen.
In my experiments with cables, I found a similar thing when using Silver plated copper cables and ultimately decided that they weren’t for me. That said, the Karma cables didn’t leave me feeling like I couldn’t live with them. They are better than Klotz MC5000 and I suspect they could oust any Sommer cables in a system, especially ones with valves.
I have read many of Ollie's posts and assessments and I feel he has shown his heart on his sleeve, in his description of how he perceived the loaned cables.
Ollie likes Bass, it is a presentation he searches out in any system.
His Cartridge choice has to deliver on it, his Tonearm Choice has to deliver on it,
a Phonostage has to seriously deliver on it.
The Krell's has got the Bass by its short and curlies.
So any interface cables between these devices are not going to win favor if they are seen to compromise on the Bass being created.
As for me, I am Bass sensitive, so following Oliies description,
I am sure I would enjoy these cables, as I smile with my ears when I hear a very pleasing, cleanly delivered Mid to High Frequency range, I'm sure the 57's grills might sqeeze out a smirk with me.
Bigman80
13-01-2019, 18:23
I have read many of Ollie's posts and assessments and I feel he has shown his heart on his sleeve, in his description of how he perceived the loaned cables.
Ollie likes Bass, it is a presentation he searches out in any system.
His Cartridge choice has to deliver on it, his Tonearm Choice has to deliver on it,
a Phonostage has to seriously deliver on it.
The Krell's has got the Bass by its short and curlies.
So any interface cables between these devices are not going to win favor if they are seen to compromise on the Bass being created.
As for me, I am Bass sensitive, so following Oliies description,
I am sure I would enjoy these cables, as I smile with my ears when I hear a very pleasing, cleanly delivered Mid to High Frequency range, I'm sure the 57's grills might sqeeze out a smirk with me.Thanks John.
"Heart on the sleeve" is spot on.
HF and Bass. Detail, and weight is where my attention gets pulled the most. The HF of the cables is very good. I really liked that about them.
brian2957
16-01-2019, 15:14
Can whoever is next on the list drop me a PM with their full name and address please .
And what are your thoughts about this cable Brian?
brian2957
16-01-2019, 17:30
Just got them earlier today Mark . Take me a few more hours to get my head around what they're doing in my system .
Wakefield Turntables
16-01-2019, 18:50
Can whoever is next on the list drop me a PM with their full name and address please .
Is that me?
yep :)
1. bronzeage.
2.YNWaN
3.bigman80.
4.brian2957
5. rexton
6. Hammer
7. johnny nocash
8.ReggieB
any more takers??
have they been passed on to rexton?
Wakefield Turntables
20-01-2019, 10:19
Yep, they arrived, I'm chucking them into my valve setup so how they perform. Not listened to them, probably late tonight.
updated loan list.
1. bronzeage.
2.YNWaN
3.bigman80.
4.brian2957
5. rexton / current user :)
6. Hammer
7. johnny nocash
8.ReggieB
9.Covenant
brian2957
20-01-2019, 10:52
I will post my thoughts when I get a chance Jamie . Been busy working at the moment .
thanks brian,no rush mate.
Wakefield Turntables
20-01-2019, 11:08
Hammer please send me your address details. I want to post these on next Friday as its the only day I get off work. I don't want to be accused of keeping these for excessive time periods.
you wont be,take your time mate.
brian2957
22-01-2019, 13:37
Sorry for the late reply to this one as I had Jamie's cables last week and a short review was required . Work definitely gets in the way of my music pleasure :)
I was sent two cables , one shorter than the other , both of which fitted very nicely between my preamp and power amp .
Firstly , I listened to the shorter of the two . These interconnects were pleasingly open in my system , with plenty of detail . However , they were a bit soft sounding with a noticeable lack of focus and bite . The midrange was slightly recessed and bass was not as tight as I would have liked . I'm not a bass head and prefer the bass to drive the music rather than vibrate the furniture and have the wife knocking on my door telling me to turn it down :). So the bass was certainly good enough for me in that respect .
Where would I use this cable ? In a system which was overly bright with a prominent top end or an overly forward presentation . I think this cable would do a very good job here .
If this was the only cable which I owned I could certainly live with it in my system and be quite happy .
Next to be plumbed into my system was the longer cable .
Now this was more like it for me :) These cables had much better focus than the first . Nice tight bass and better leading edges . Again , probably more detail with nicely presented mids which brought voices , in particular , further into the room . The top end was also better than the first with instruments sounding more realistic .
TBH when I checked my notes I didn't write much about this cable because I was too busy enjoying the music :) . This cable really suited my system and I really liked what it did . Nice one Jamie .
Obviously I can only comment on these cables within the context of my system , my room , and my ears . So YMMV :)
Wakefield Turntables
22-01-2019, 13:47
you wont be,take your time mate.
Thanks.
Sorry for the late reply to this one as I had Jamie's cables last week and a short review was required . Work definitely gets in the way of my music pleasure :)
I was sent two cables , one shorter than the other , both of which fitted very nicely between my preamp and power amp .
Firstly , I listened to the shorter of the two . These interconnects were pleasingly open in my system , with plenty of detail . However , they were a bit soft sounding with a noticeable lack of focus and bite . The midrange was slightly recessed and bass was not as tight as I would have liked . I'm not a bass head and prefer the bass to drive the music rather than vibrate the furniture and have the wife knocking on my door telling me to turn it down :). So the bass was certainly good enough for me in that respect .
Where would I use this cable ? In a system which was overly bright with a prominent top end or an overly forward presentation . I think this cable would do a very good job here .
If this was the only cable which I owned I could certainly live with it in my system and be quite happy .
Next to be plumbed into my system was the longer cable .
Now this was more like it for me :) These cables had much better focus than the first . Nice tight bass and better leading edges . Again , probably more detail with nicely presented mids which brought voices , in particular , further into the room . The top end was also better than the first with instruments sounding more realistic .
TBH when I checked my notes I didn't write much about this cable because I was too busy enjoying the music :) . This cable really suited my system and I really liked what it did . Nice one Jamie .
Obviously I can only comment on these cables within the context of my system , my room , and my ears . So YMMV :)
Thank you Brian for your review,im pleased you enjoyed them. there is another pair being put together to try to eliminate the issues mark and oli commented on earlier,1st impressions for me are positive.
loan cables are on hold for a while as they need some TLC,also the plugs are showing bad signs of wear which is shit considering the cost of them.
Yes, unfortunately the KLEI plugs mark up really quickly.
loan cables are on hold for a while as they need some TLC,also the plugs are showing bad signs of wear which is shit considering the cost of them.
Shame I was looking forward to a visit front the postman this week:)
update,
well ive found a new occ cable to try,i always found with various cables ive made up that although they sound fine through the cdp they seemed to go down a touch when used in phono duties.
they all had a common theme,no shield,the new cable is shielded and ive made a new external phono cable and a pair of IC's so it runs right through to the amp via the paradise.no hum at all.
i have to say im very happy with the results,a nice big (tall) soundstage with good detail top and bottom,its had a week of burn in and use and yes i have heard it come on song :)
i have ordered 10 meters and i intend to make a loan phono cable and ic for others to try.
Bigman80
05-05-2019, 19:14
update,
well ive found a new occ cable to try,i always found with various cables ive made up that although they sound fine through the cdp they seemed to go down a touch when used in phono duties.
they all had a common theme,no shield,the new cable is shielded and ive made a new external phono cable and a pair of IC's so it runs right through to the amp via the paradise.no hum at all.
i have to say im very happy with the results,a nice big (tall) soundstage with good detail top and bottom,its had a week of burn in and use and yes i have heard it come on song :)
i have ordered 10 meters and i intend to make a loan phono cable and ic for others to try.Are you confirming that you experienced burn in? I hope so lol, I know I'm not imagining it[emoji3]
Well done on persevering, it takes a special kind of nutter lol (hello! *Waves*) to keep on buying, trying and evaluating every minute detail of the performance for every bit of cable you get, but when it lands right on the bullseye, its a great reward.
Good on ya.
cheers oli,yes i truly believe i heard it! lol
it does get a bit tiring at times and sometimes i think its just easier to buy a 'brand cable' but the 'hit pay dirt' cable at a fraction of the costs keeps me interested enough to keep buying and trying :cool:
Bigman80
05-05-2019, 19:56
cheers oli,yes i truly believe i heard it! lol
it does get a bit tiring at times and sometimes i think its just easier to buy a 'brand cable' but the 'hit pay dirt' cable at a fraction of the costs keeps me interested enough to keep buying and trying :cool:Yes, keep going!!!
Update, I have sourced a cable that has met and beaten my expectations. I’ve been using it for a month for a tonearm cable and ic.
Within the next 2 weeks I will make up a set and they will be available for loan.
I’m also trying some very interesting occ military cable which shows promise.
Johnny nocash
10-06-2019, 11:35
Hi Jamie, will the new cable replace the older interconnects (not tonearm) which were being loaned out?
Yes mate, imo they improve on the old ones
Johnny nocash
10-06-2019, 12:10
Great to hear that mate. Will you be continuing down the list from where it was 'suspended'?
thingfish
10-06-2019, 12:16
Jamie.......if your cables sound as good as they look, your on to a winner.
Great to hear that mate. Will you be continuing down the list from where it was 'suspended'?
Hi, no I’m starting a new list, if you’d like to hear them please put your name down in the other thread, as it stands you’d be second.
Jamie.......if your cables sound as good as they look, your on to a winner.
Wow thanks,:)
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