View Full Version : Electrical technical question re hard-wired multiple socket extension
Duckworp
21-11-2018, 15:04
Is there any UK electrical safety issue from the following:
a 2-way extension block from which the 2 component cables come hard-wired out directly to be plugged into the amp and CD player with a standard IEC connector. So instead of each component having a 13 amp plug their IEC connector cable would be hard-wired to the extension block. The extension block would then be plugged in as normal to the wall with a fused plug. So I guess the question is, is it OK to replace 2 x fused plugs with a device which combines the two cables and then you only have one fused plug to the wall. The fact that European plugs don't have fuses suggests to me that this would be OK.
I'm interested in the safety angle only.
Thanks for any advice.
Hi i wont comment on the safety aspect. But will say that your amp probably has a higher rated fuse than the CD player.
So if an internal fault developed it might not be protected.
You can buy a ready made one..
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-9m-13A-UK-3-Pin-Fused-Mains-Lead-Y-Splitter-to-2-IEC-Power-Sockets-Kettle-Lead/272304272996?epid=1684036642&hash=item3f66997664:g:ecwAAOSw7XZXg8oU:rk:10:pf:0
if all of the cable is rated correctly it will be fine
blackmetalboon
21-11-2018, 17:01
The fuse in the plug is designed to protect the mains lead, so as long as the correct sized plug top fuse is selected to provide adequate protection for the lowest rated mains lead for the Amp and CD player, then it is fine.
Easiest way is to check what rating the two mains leads are (the lead may have conductor size printed on it or the plug may have a current rating on it) and what fuse is currently in the plug tops.
European plugs do not have fuses in them as adequate protection for the mains leads is provided by the MCB/breaker in the consumer unit. In the UK this is not always the case due to our use of Ring Final Circuits.
Light Dependant Resistor
21-11-2018, 21:22
Hi i wont comment on the safety aspect. But will say that your amp probably has a higher rated fuse than the CD player.
So if an internal fault developed it might not be protected.
You can buy a ready made one..
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-9m-13A-UK-3-Pin-Fused-Mains-Lead-Y-Splitter-to-2-IEC-Power-Sockets-Kettle-Lead/272304272996?epid=1684036642&hash=item3f66997664:g:ecwAAOSw7XZXg8oU:rk:10:pf:0
I agree with this Buying a ready made one is the thing to do. Hard wiring sockets is not a good idea. Aside from added errors of getting polarity of active and Neutral wrong, and not wiring
correctly safety earth.
Any given mains outlet this hard wired attaches to is capable of delivering 10-15 amps of current.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrocution
Death can occur from any shock that carries enough sustained current to stop the heart. Low currents (70–700 mA) usually trigger fibrillation in the heart, which is reversible via defibrillator but is nearly always fatal without help. Currents as low as 30 mA AC or 300-500 mA DC applied to the body surface can cause fibrillation. Large currents (> 1 A) cause permanent damage via burns and cellular damage.
The properties of insulation typically plastic, and international standards ensure the same device ready made meets these essential safety standards.
If your that worried youd never change a plug
Light Dependant Resistor
22-11-2018, 00:04
If your that worried youd never change a plug
When you change a plug you are not exposed to bare wire connections, rather you are holding a insulated mains plug
prior to inserting into a similarly insulated socket. The thread provider as indeed anyone reading this needs to be aware
of the risks of mains electricity when attempting to use mains electricity any differently.
If in any doubt, don't do it. You also have to consider nullifying of your insurance if anything non standard is fitted to your electricity supply
The OP isn’t suggesting that he hard wires two leads to the 13A wall socket - I wish people would read the actual question before starting to ‘suck their teeth’!
When you change a plug you are not exposed to bare wire connections, rather you are holding a insulated mains plug
prior to inserting into a similarly insulated socket.
:scratch:
Don't know about NZ but when you change a plug in the UK you undo the wires, release them from the redundant plug and then re-attach them to the new one using the screw posts provided. So yes. changing a plug does involve handling 'bare wire' connections so the two situations ARE comparable.
That said, what the OP is suggesting is dismantling an existing electrical fitting and reassembling it in a manner that is not applicable and for which no provision has been made at the design stage and for which it has not been tested or approved ... personally I would also go with the advice to buy a 'ready-made' solution.
The OP isn’t suggesting that he hard wires two leads to the 13A wall socket - I wish people would read the actual question before starting to ‘suck their teeth’!
i stand by what i say. if unsure, dont do it. if you want to find out if its legal and safe you need a qualified man to tell you, preferably in writing.
The OP isn’t suggesting that he hard wires two leads to the 13A wall socket - I wish people would read the actual question before starting to ‘suck their teeth’!
Reading the opening sentence in the OP's post, the key question of electrical safety is raised:
"Is there any UK electrical safety issue from the following:"
All responses have been based on this and the responses totally appropriate ... no 'teeth sucking' involved'
I don't think it is unfair to expect respondents to read more than the first sentence of a post before they write their response (in fact, my comment was not directed toward Grant - but I'm sure he he is grateful that you have come running to his assistance)!
You don't have to be an electrical guru to know that their are potential issues when dealing with mains voltages. The OP's question is about a specific situation and, as already pointed out by an earlier contributor, leads configured exactly as the OP suggests already exist and are easily available complete with all relevant CE certification!
As for your claim that "All responses have been based on this and the responses totally appropriate", well that just isn't true, or you haven't read all the responses; because at least two are just generic 'electricity is dangerous stuff' advice and do not address the specific question at all.
depends on the two cables being in need of the same fuse rating, if they are not individually fused. thats my main concern. if one requires a 3 amp and the other a 13 amp, then you have a potential issue
As for your claim that "All responses have been based on this and the responses totally appropriate", well that just isn't true, or you haven't read all the responses; because at least two are just generic 'electricity is dangerous stuff' advice and do not address the specific question at all.
You made a sweeping generalisation ... and got one in return.
If you had a beef about two of the responses then address them directly rather than a blanket 'tut tut'
Don't mess with mains voltage unless you are confident that you know what you are doing.
That said, there is nothing wrong with what you are proposing.
I use an IEC kettle type distribution block, 1 in 10 out, it runs the whole of my set up from a single 13 amp plug/wall socket. The distribution block has a 10 amp reset-able trip. The low current fuses inside each bit of kit protects them. The 13 amp fuse in the single 3 pin plug protects the ring main from a direct short, should one of the leads get nipped and short out. The 10 amp trip is additional safety for the gear/leads but is there because the connectors are only rated at 10 amps (each). I have volt and amp meters in my distribution unit. The system pulls a 6 to 7 Amp surge on start up and uses 0.7 amps in use at high volume. I have 2 stereo power amps and an active crossover, Pre, TT, Phono, DAC, CD, a strip light, my TV and a laptop. I never use everything at once, but with most of it in use at any one time it still draws only 0.7 amp or less, after the initial inrush at start up. The power amps are class D with SMPS, these are notorious for having a very large current draw at start up, but for a very short time, less than half a second.
If you lack knowledge/confidence, look up the Naim "Hydra", this is a hard wired plug with up to 4 IEC output leads, perhaps look at using something like this, as its just like wiring a plug. TNT Audio do a DIY project using the same component in the build and folks on ebay used to sell ready made "Hydras" but I can only find the plug. I used to use one that I made after seeing it on TNT.
TNT article: https://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/hydra_e.html
ebay link to 4 way plug: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Multiway-Mains-Plug-For-DIY-Naim-Hydra-Cable-Lead-Audiophile-High-End-HiFi/273566971921?hash=item3fb1dcb811:g:oT8AAOSwBkBb8dD H:rk:1:pf:0
It was no where near that price when I built mine (£19.99) but that was a while back, from Maplins I think.
Duckworp
23-11-2018, 17:28
I am theOP. Thanks for your comments. It appears that it is safe for the UK from the look of the Grahams/Naim hydra which you have referred me to, and is effectively the same thing. The one I am looking at purchasing is made in Europe, I was concerned that the lack of individual fused plugs for each component might be an issue in the UK as they don't have that in Europe. But it seems that with the amp and cd player each having their own internal fuses, and with the plug from the hydra having a 13 amp fuse, and with the consumer unit having an RCBO it should all be safe. The lack of individual plugs/fuses from the cd player and amp to the hydra/distribution block should not have any effect. Again, if I have misunderstood please do correct me.
I am theOP. Thanks for your comments. It appears that it is safe for the UK from the look of the Grahams/Naim hydra which you have referred me to, and is effectively the same thing. The one I am looking at purchasing is made in Europe, I was concerned that the lack of individual fused plugs for each component might be an issue in the UK as they don't have that in Europe. But it seems that with the amp and cd player each having their own internal fuses, and with the plug from the hydra having a 13 amp fuse, and with the consumer unit having an RCBO it should all be safe. The lack of individual plugs/fuses from the cd player and amp to the hydra/distribution block should not have any effect. Again, if I have misunderstood please do correct me.
You are understanding things correctly, I only have a single 13amp plug/fuse for my 10 leads.
As long as you use leads capable of carrying the current for each unit and the single lead to the wall socket, can handle the total current for all the units, you will be fine. There is no legal requirement or safety standard that you will be infringing in the UK. Taking unnecessary fuses out of the circuit might even improve the sound. The reason every UK appliance with a 3 pin plug has a fuse, is that it could be plugged directly into your wall socket and ring main. It's additional protection for the ring main and consumer unit fuse and stops the lead catching fire if it is jammed in a door etc and should be the first thing to blow. It is to high a value to protect your gear, which usually has a lower value fuse inside, as you have found.
Duckworp
26-11-2018, 04:09
Thank you Ken. The European manufacturer recommends, for optimum sound quality, to have no fuse on the wall plug, as they do in Europe. However this worries me though I guess it shouldn’t as the Uk does seem to be alone in having fused wall plugs.
it won't make a blind bit of difference.
Thank you Ken. The European manufacturer recommends, for optimum sound quality, to have no fuse on the wall plug, as they do in Europe. However this worries me though I guess it shouldn’t as the Uk does seem to be alone in having fused wall plugs.
Keep the fused plug at the connection to your wall socket it is there for safety, to help prevent fires, the European and American standards are not as tight, I'm sure you've seen American located movies of stuff going up in flames and leads both flying and in the walls catching fire. They tend not to do that here as the fuse blows in the plug first.
On the continent you can just poke the bare wires into the socket and it will work. Don't know about America, not tried it there.
On the continent you can just poke the bare wires into the socket and it will work. Don't know about America, not tried it there.
You can do the same here with some BS1363 sockets - I've done it myself, though it's not to be recommended!
Used to do it all the time when testing tvs...saved putting a plug on(we had bare wire connectors of course but if you ran out you would do that.)
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