Impression of Thorens TD203: would not recommend

[Exophile]

I bought a Thorens TD203 based on recommendation of a local high-end store as a replacement of a ProJect 6.1 I bought about 1998. Here are some impressions after using it for about a month.

I chose an upgraded cartridge, an Ortofon 2M blue, which was installed by the local high-end shop. Sound-wise it is a step up, though I don't have much in terms of comparisons to offer. I also got a ProJect VCS fluid record cleaner, and it gets nice clean sound out of my records.

HOWEVER ...
- The tone arm design can only be described as botched. Placing the tone arm back into the C-shaped cradle can only be done if the uni-pivot joint is dislodged and seriously wobbles the entire assembly. This is because the C-shaped retention plastic piece is too low, even in its highest adjustable position. Trying to adjust this particular piece is rather tricky and plastic does not confer an impression of quality. Maybe too much to hope for in a $1K TT.

- The vibration isolation does not exist. Thorens elected to not have any suspension and rely on the feet alone. I did the tapping test for vibration isolation. I listen with an Rotel RA1572 integrated amp and B&W CM6 speakers at ~40/100 volume. When I lightly tap with one finger (low level door knock) on the solid stone counter with needle on stationary record, the knock becomes very audible at 75/100, no question it comes from speakers. I tried to put the TT on sorbothane isolation pads, but that did nothing.

- The motor is pathetically weak. One cannot use a record cleaning brush, because the resistance of the brush will make the platter stop. This is not a problem with my particular exemplar, as I saw in a different high-end store one of the employees struggle with the same problem. Fortunately I have the ProJect VCS.

- Phono cable is hard-wired in, so no option of upgrading. That is as UNclear on the Thorens website as possible. I think it would be appropriate to make that clear in product information.

IMHO, this TT has very poor mechanical design. I would have expected better from a German/Swiss company. My old Project 6.1 has a vastly superior build quality. Have to fiddle with a few other things first, but this TT is already on the chopping block. Please don't repeat my mistake. Maybe I can salvage at least the cartridge.

[AJSki2fly]

That does not sound very good!

[Jazid]

Very sorry to hear it. I have zero first hand owners experience of any t/t built after 1990 simply because they're so damn good and well made before then why would I bother?

So saying £1k is a lot if you have to earn it as surplus money so I'd be down the shop politely asking if they are prepared to do a deal to get you something better. They must get px in all the time. Don't suffer it, its not good enough, for that you could have had a Thorens TD124!

Always polite but even if they won't budge you can make them feel cheap, hopefully in front of another customer. That's the best way to stop them hawking rubbish.

Sent from my BLA-L09 using Tapatalk

[alphaGT]

That is most unfortunate. It’s sounds to me the ‘table is overpriced. All of these things would be acceptable on a $300 ‘table. But certainly not on a £1,000 ‘table. I know it’s been over a month, but you should try to get them to make some concessions. A trade in? Get at least most of your money back. And a Grand will buy a lot of ‘table on the used market. I paid $1,100 for my Scout with acrylic platter.

My Scout has no suspension, only 4 cone feet. But the ‘table is 36 pounds! So it’s not moving, and does fairly well on the knuckle wrap test. Perhaps adding a stone base would help isolate it?

And Kudos on your Project VCS! I’ve got one too, and it is a super nice RCM, I wouldn’t trade it for anything. A well thought out machine that is easy to use and produces results!

Russell

[RobbieGong]

Dont delay or ponder it any further - nothing ventured nothing gained.

As suggested, visit the shop, find someone to speak to ie: ask for the manager and calmly explain the situation.

You've spent £1k and the deck is not to standard in your experience for that money.

List the issues and and say you are more than happy to bring the deck and demonstrate.

You've nothing more to lose andd everything to gain. Dont delay any longer as that will only go against.

All the best with it.

[Exophile]

Thanks for the replies. My main thing is that others learn from my experience. I agree with a $300 table, no complaints, but at $1K price point I would have expected a bit more. One more thing I forgot is the following. When the arm is released with the lever in the rear, the needle just plops down on the record, no dampening on the arm lever whatsoever.

The shop has been quite good with other things, so I am sure we will get to a gentleman's agreement at some point. It's a bit of a catch-22 now. I don't want to rush into the purchase of a new table, which means that the current table will get used a bit longer. Linn LP12 gets favorable mentions around, so that may be a contender. Different price point (~3K used), but doable, particularly after this experience.

Re stone platter, it is sitting on a defunct fire place with heavy stone plate. I don't think a second stone would change anything. And given the other problems, I won't hook a dead horse onto an iron lung. The 203 is 3.5 kg so around 8 lbs.

[smangus]

It might just be a duff specimen ? in which case they should exchange or refund no? Good luck with it.

[Exophile]

Unfortunately, I don't think it is this particular exemplar (lemon). The weak motor was also evident on an exemplar at an other high end shop. Same also for the lack of dampening on the tone arm lever, and the clunky park position. I did not do the tap test for sound isolation there. It rather falls in the category of poor design. And I don't think I got a knock-off either, as I went through a high-end brick and mortar shop, not cheap-HiEnd-R-us.com

[hifi_dave]

Some time ago I did try a couple of Thorens decks and was similarly unimpressed. Why bother when you could have a Rega ?

[Frazeur1]

Yes, a shame it isn’t doing well for you, sometimes that is what happens even with best testing and intentions. Definitely see if the dealer will give you some options.

I will say this, I have never understood the “knuckle” knock/test thing though, have no idea what that really checks for, especially on an un-isolated design. After all, do people make a habit of doing that whilst playing a record? Boggles my mind.

Anyway, no offense meant on that last statement, hopefully you will get things sorted to your liking!

[Exophile]

Dave: interesting re historical perspective. Did not get that from the various reviews I looked at.

Re knock test, as far as I understand, it is to check for degree of feedback from speaker-produced sound waves back through table. As it is impossible to do that while speakers are getting audio signal from table, you introduced artificial vibrations with the knuckles/finger tips. That is what I got out of Harley's book
https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Guide-High-End-Audio/dp/0978649311
and make quite a bit of sense to me. Apparently, the degree by which TT suspensions can absorb vibration in support varies quite a bit. May be irrelevant if one listens with headphones. The vibration feedback could also apply to tone arm (plus any other part of the TT), and that is not tested.

[hifi_dave]

You can't trust other people's opinions. You have one to hand and find it lacking, so you know as much, maybe more, than anyone else.

[RobbieGong]

You can't trust other people's opinions. You have one to hand and find it lacking, so you know as much, maybe more, than anyone else.

Exactly.

All said and done there's an infinite amount that can be read and as much talking too.

Going forward and moving on, what have you decided. ?

Will you be addressing the tables 'weaknesses' and the issues you've told us about with the store ?

Are you considering other tt options ?

[Light Capture]

I have the to203 and disagree. I find it a wonderful turntable with an excellent tone arm. The sound has fantastic PRaT. And with the Ortofon 2m Blue has great amount of detail and extension.

As far as the op comment about the tone arm rest. When you move it to the rest you can lower the cueing lever and it will sit on the rest. Once it is lowered and sitting on the perch, if you want then it can be moved to the lock position. I find the motor keeps excellent speed to and is very quiet.

The tone arm is very low friction and has azimuth and Vta adjustment. Its superb for its price range.

Here's a nice and interesting forum thread on it.
http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/review-thorens-td203-turntable.717671/