Budget speakers [Archive] - The Art of Sound Forum

Pieoftheday

13-11-2018, 19:49

I once read in a HiFi mag, I don't remember which, you can't buy a decent speaker for less than £500, well I disagree. I'm currently using some wharfdale diamond 10.1 standmounts. To be fair the vinyl wrap isn't great but sound wise they're really good,weighty, detailed and easy to listen to.compared to my usher s520 s they lack clarity and sophistication but never the less they put a smile on my face:)

Gaz

13-11-2018, 20:13

This is just personal opinion but I think the hifi world is far too full of snobbery, you get what you pay for? I'm not at all sure you do.

Pieoftheday

13-11-2018, 20:40

This is just personal opinion but I think the hifi world is far too full of snobbery, you get what you pay for? I'm not at all sure you do.

Hi GARY, YOU could well be right. I'm not saying these whardales are giant killers, just that they're good speakers and inexpensive to boot. Much fun for £150:)

Macca

13-11-2018, 21:27

I recall back in about 1991 listening to a friend of a friend's Linn LP12 set up with these dinky speakers making a great sound and filling a large room and thinking they must be something like the AE1 (cost about a grand back then). And then when the lights went up realising with a shock they were actually Wharfedale Diamond Fours (about a ton back then).

I've not bought any budget speakers (if we are talking under £500) in a while. Always buy second-hand now as I reckon it is just better value for money. If you can have some 2 grand speakers for £500 it doesn't make sense to me to pay £500 for some £500 speakers, if you see what I mean?

But in the past I've owned a few:

Wharfedale CRS3 - excellent little things I should not have sold. Listen blind and you'd never think they were under a ton new.

Mission 731 - I think they were £200 and they were pretty sophisticated sounding. High WAF too, pretty and looked expensive. But not a rocker's speaker.

B&W 601 (mk1) - Again £200 - not much love for these outside the hi-fi press. I think because they were a bit dry sounding compared to most of their competition back then. But good for rock music.

JBL Control One - £60 new incl wall brackets. - Everyone thinks these must be complete crap until they hear them. Or pick them up and feel the weight. Like ingots. Bought them for the TV system. I still have these and have stuck them on the end of my main rig a couple of times just for kicks but it is a good reminder of how any competent speaker no matter how cheap will benefit from having some real quality gear upstream.

Back in the 1980s there was some right rubbish around at the budget end. Wharfedale Delta 30 and the A&R Red Box spring to mind but there were others. And in the 1970s there was a ton of tat. I think most of it thankfully has been skipped.

Nowadays I don't think, going on the odd listen at shows, bake offs, dealers and mate's houses, that there is anything that bad around on the budget end. Probably because they are made in China now so they can do a lot more for the money.

AJSki2fly

13-11-2018, 22:27

:doh:
I once read in a HiFi mag, I don't remember which, you can't buy a decent speaker for less than £500, well I disagree. I'm currently using some wharfdale diamond 10.1 standmounts. To be fair the vinyl wrap isn't great but sound wise they're really good,weighty, detailed and easy to listen to.compared to my usher s520 s they lack clarity and sophistication but never the less they put a smile on my face:)

I seem to remember that the Diamonds at some point got Best Buy awards for vfm and giving a good rendition, so I’m not surprised you like them. I had several £100-300 pairs when I was sub 30 years, generally they performed well if positioned correctly. I then had a pair of Snells with stands which I regret selling to this day, I paid £450 for the speakers and £200 for the stands. Then a pair KEF reference II’s, a lovely floorstander and beautifully made, once again I don’t know why I sold them.:doh:

hifinutt

13-11-2018, 22:51

yes very nearly bought some wharfdale diamond 10.1 for a system which are selling at 139 new , they seem to garner a lot of praise and good vfm

Gaz

14-11-2018, 00:28

B&W 601 (mk1) - Again £200 - not much love for these outside the hi-fi press. I think because they were a bit dry sounding compared to most of their competition back then. But good for rock music.

JBL Control One - £60 new incl wall brackets. - Everyone thinks these must be complete crap until they hear them. Or pick them up and feel the weight. Like ingots. Bought them for the TV system. I still have these and have stuck them on the end of my main rig a couple of times just for kicks but it is a good reminder of how any competent speaker no matter how cheap will benefit from having some real quality gear upstream.

.

Interesting comments

I had a pair of B&W DM 601s and wasn't at all impressed with them either yet, as you said, the reviews were all excellent

JBL Control 1s must have been around for years but I've never heard a pair, I am guilty of thinking they always looked too small to sound any good

Beobloke

14-11-2018, 01:32

I recently reviewed the new Elac B6.2s for Hi-Fi Choice. They are a pair of standmounters that are nicely finished but don’t initially appear to be anything special.

However for £299 not only did they not do much wrong, they did a lot very right indeed - I was genuinely deeply impressed.

Pigmy Pony

14-11-2018, 07:19

As even the best speakers can only give you what is happening upstream, the performance of our earlier ones would owe much of their performance to source and amps. If said speakers were put in place of what we may be using now, I reckon we would find that loudspeaker technology hasn't moved on very much in the last 30 or so years, and what sounded ok then is actually really good.

I wouldn't mind a pair of Monitor Audio R352's which I had a pair of in the 90's - I really liked them then and I'm sure I still would.

Macca

14-11-2018, 07:28

Interesting comments

I had a pair of B&W DM 601s and wasn't at all impressed with them either yet, as you said, the reviews were all excellent

JBL Control 1s must have been around for years but I've never heard a pair, I am guilty of thinking they always looked too small to sound any good

The JBL are good given the size and low price. Good in absolute terms? No.

jandl100

14-11-2018, 09:08

I've got a pair of JBL Control 1 that I use in an AV system.
Pretty decent and good vfm for an active remote controlled pair of speakers, but you do need the visual imagery of the AV to find them believable, imo.

But talking of JBL ... a fair while back I owned Kharma Ceramique 3 speakers (for getting on for 2 years, rrp £5k and cost me £1800 used).
As is my wont, after a couple of years of even these excellent speakers I fancied a change and for some reason picked up a pair of somewhat tatty but working JBL 110 Monitors. A bit over £100, iirc.
Cor blimey, guv - what a superb pair of speakers. Clarity, dynamics, neutrality - the Lot, really. Seriously impressed and really enjoyed them.
So yep, you can get great budget priced speakers.

Pigmy Pony

14-11-2018, 16:08

The JBL are good given the size and low price. Good in absolute terms? No.

I got a pair of Control 1's for £20, thinking they may be a step up from some very tidy Celestion 5's I'm using. They weren't.

fatmarley

14-11-2018, 16:49

Macca

14-11-2018, 18:04

Thought the B&W 601 was one of the worst speakers I've ever heard. Mission 731 and Kef coda 7/8 were much better budget speakers.

Jpw ap2 sound great on a quality hifi system. They were probably too revealing for the kind of budget kit they would of been sold with. The frequency response of the raw drivers does vary, so not all P1/AP2/AP3s will sound the same.

Yes they are very good budget speakers, amongst the best I have heard. Got a set of JPW AP2 for my mate's bird, plumbed them in and spent the evening listening and decided I wanted them for myself. Cabs were built in Dartmoor Prison, allegedly. The JPW 'mini monitors' on the other hand are extremely poor. Worst speakers I've ever owned.

Macca

14-11-2018, 18:05

I got a pair of Control 1's for £20, thinking they may be a step up from some very tidy Celestion 5's I'm using. They weren't.

I could have told you that :)

alphaGT

14-11-2018, 18:44

This is just personal opinion but I think the hifi world is far too full of snobbery, you get what you pay for? I'm not at all sure you do.

I’ll agree, there are other forums so full of it I get riled every time I read them. On another forum someone asked the question, “ where does Mid Fi end and High Fi begin?”. And some idiot was saying that his $100,000 system had just moved from Mid Fi to High Fi. What a snob!

Personally I’ve heard relatively expensive systems that sounded just awful, and budget systems that were quite good. There is no law that says inexpensive speakers can’t sound good.

Russell

fatmarley

14-11-2018, 19:49

The JPW 'mini monitors' on the other hand are extremely poor. Worst speakers I've ever owned.

I had some Gold monitors years ago (same midbass driver IIRC) but didn't get on with them at all. I bought them to use with the tv but voices were very muffled and I had to turn them up quite loud to understand what people were saying. Maybe they were faulty?

Macca

14-11-2018, 19:55

I had some Gold monitors years ago (same midbass driver IIRC) but didn't get on with them at all. I bought them to use with the tv but voices were very muffled and I had to turn them up quite loud to understand what people were saying. Maybe they were faulty?

Maybe but I also found them to be very poor in the clarity stakes, even playing at high levels. They had good reviews and I was hoping for a giant-killer along the lines of the Wharfedale Diamond but they were nothing like as good. A total waste of money. Gave them to a mate to use on his Panasonic midi system and they were a step up from the appalling supplied speakers. But only just.

fatmarley

14-11-2018, 20:03

They had good reviews

Yes, the gold monitors got good reviews too. Oh well.

Macca

14-11-2018, 20:11

The old Tannoy Six series with the hexagonal cabs, they were pretty good. I fancied some of them at the time but I couldn't afford them.

Pigmy Pony

14-11-2018, 21:07

I used to have a pair of AR speakers in the eighties, I think the model was AR 48LS. The made pretty good bass as I remember. Only about £200 new. Sold them to a mate for £120 just before the foam surrounds disintegrated.

Macca

14-11-2018, 21:34

Pigmy Pony

14-11-2018, 21:55

A bit like those but not the same. I'm certain the model was 48LS, not 48S.

Jac Hawk

14-11-2018, 22:40

Hifi is a game of diminishing returns, the more you spend the smaller the increase in sound quality, on top of that all systems need to have synergy and work together, we did a thing at scalford a few years back and put a system together for less than £100 just to show that good sound didn’t need a hefty price tag.

steve-z

14-11-2018, 23:24

Pigmy Pony

15-11-2018, 07:36

The speaker and amp combination I have in my bedroom system weighs in at comfortably under £500 and certainly has a sound quality I definitely wouldn’t refer to as budget, you can get very good sounding gear on a budget if you choose carefully.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181114/92634772c350b99e33e6d8bef6ebe84f.jpg
An Onkyo A-9010 (European spec) and Q Acoustics Concept 20s both bought brand new.

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All very well if you can stick to that - but eventually the urge to fix something that isn't broken takes over. I bet that two years from now those two empty shelves won't be empty any more. :)

Haselsh1

15-11-2018, 09:35

steve-z

15-11-2018, 09:58

Got to agree with everyone. I have been thinking of buying a pair of Q Acoustics Concept 20's for a while now, not to replace my Spendors but to pick up a pair secondhand just to see what they are like. My Spendor S3/5R2's only cost 700 quid which is a modest amount but I'd love to try the Q Acoustics ones. Maybe, maybe not.

The Concept 20s are exceptionally good speakers and available at a good price purely because they’ve been on sale for quite a few years now. I had them in my main setup for quite a while but couldn’t place them near a wall to bring up the bottom end so I bought the Concept 40 floor standers, the 20s work better 8” from the wall in the bedroom, both sets of QA speakers are definitely here to stay.

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steve-z

15-11-2018, 10:13

All very well if you can stick to that - but eventually the urge to fix something that isn't broken takes over. I bet that two years from now those two empty shelves won't be empty any more. :)

No, I won’t be adding anything else to the setup, just out of sight to the right of the photo is my iMac which has all my digital music collection on it as well as giving me access to Spotify, don’t need anything else.

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House

15-11-2018, 11:08

Excellent system ! Steve-Z

If you choose equipment thats been carefully designed you can get an amazing sound for very little. true fact

Gaz

15-11-2018, 11:26

The famous Matrix Hifi blind test at the Spanish show proved that expensive isn't always better.

If anybody isn't aware of it, 30 hifi enthusiasts were unable to pick a clear winner between a £500 system and a £10k system.

http://matrixhifi.com/ENG_contenedor_ppec.htm

walpurgis

15-11-2018, 12:06

Well it may have proved that unfamiliar components are tricky to distinguish in unfamiliar surroundings.

steve-z

15-11-2018, 12:18

Well it may have proved that unfamiliar components are tricky to distinguish in unfamiliar surroundings.

If the surroundings are the same for both it shouldn’t make any difference. What this shows is the biggest factor on any system is the speakers, with a digital music signal and competent electronics it’s the final link in the chain that makes the most difference.

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Gaz

15-11-2018, 12:46

Well it may have proved that unfamiliar components are tricky to distinguish in unfamiliar surroundings.

Surely if that were the case nobody would ever buy new equipment?
If you get a demonstration in a shop you'll be listening to unfamiliar equipment in unfamiliar surroundings.

Haselsh1

15-11-2018, 14:55

The Concept 20s are exceptionally good speakers and available at a good price purely because they’ve been on sale for quite a few years now. I had them in my main setup for quite a while but couldn’t place them near a wall to bring up the bottom end so I bought the Concept 40 floor standers, the 20s work better 8” from the wall in the bedroom, both sets of QA speakers are definitely here to stay.

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LOL, since moving out to this little cottage at the beginning of May we would have no problem whatsoever getting a pair of Concept 20's close to the main wall. In fact, if they weren't we'd possibly have to climb over the buggers to get through the room. My only concern would be using them with my valve power amp which is only around 40 Wpc. It would be nice though to hear how they compare to the S3/5R2's though which tend to be very polite in their sound and maybe not the best for our electronic music.

steve-z

15-11-2018, 15:09

LOL, since moving out to this little cottage at the beginning of May we would have no problem whatsoever getting a pair of Concept 20's close to the main wall. In fact, if they weren't we'd possibly have to climb over the buggers to get through the room. My only concern would be using them with my valve power amp which is only around 40 Wpc. It would be nice though to hear how they compare to the S3/5R2's though which tend to be very polite in their sound and maybe not the best for our electronic music.

The Onkyo A-9010 I’m using to drive my Concept 20s is rated at 44wpc and my normal listening level is with the volume control at the 9 o’clock position, 10 o’clock position is pretty loud so your valve amp should have plenty in reserve to drive them. In fact I drove them for quite a while with an Amptastic Mini 1 Tripath amp which was only about 12-15 watts, that was loud at half volume.

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Haselsh1

15-11-2018, 15:23

This is just personal opinion but I think the hifi world is far too full of snobbery, you get what you pay for? I'm not at all sure you do.

I certainly do not believe you get what you pay for. Most hi-fi gear is priced at what the market will sustain which has little relevance to its actual value. Also of course there is the dealer margin to take into account which tends to be a fixed percent so that the more expensive the item, the higher the margin. This is not just the case for hi-fi though, it is the case for just about anything we buy. Huge corporates buy thousands of items and get immense discounts so their margins are subsequently immense. A small dealer with a very sought after personal touch is offering something a corporate may never even be interested in. What did 'they' used to say about piling them high and getting them out..?

Manicatel

15-11-2018, 15:52

I would guess it all comes down to expectation.
£500 speakers can certainly put a big smile on someone’s face. In fact, a little system such as Denon dm40/41 or Yamaha wxa50 & a pair of q-acoustic 3020’s or MA Bronze 2 speakers is all a lot of people need. Is it the last word in accuracy? Of course not, but if the owner is truly enjoying music with such a system, then that’s job done.

goraman

16-11-2018, 01:31

goraman

16-11-2018, 02:13

A speaker to consider if high efficiency is a concern.
https://www.tektondesign.com/mini-lore-monitor.html

https://www.dagogo.com/tekton-design-mini-lore-monitors-review/

Beobloke

16-11-2018, 05:09

If this is it? nice review.

https://www.hifichoice.co.uk/news/article/elac-debut-b6-standmount/23011

No, that was the old version. The ones I did are the new B6.2s.

It is a good review, though - David Price knows his stuff!

goraman

17-11-2018, 07:26

No, that was the old version. The ones I did are the new B6.2s.

It is a good review, though - David Price knows his stuff!

The new Elacs B6.2 seem to be voiced more to the mid range and has better clarity looking into other reviews, it is said they lack bass compared to the older model.
The best small speakers I have ever heard where ANK's. with a little puny Audion SET EL84 amp. at just a couple watts per side. Not much bass but what a shit show for hardly a spark of wattage.
They didn't thump or thud, yet they sounded full and rich just the same.
I never count out small now.
I have 3 great loves in audio, Large SoundLab Electrostatics , EL84 amps and oddly really efficient 2 way speakers that can rock !
I like small speakers too, I can sacrifice bass but not depth,music must have body and a sense of air. I could care less if it is forward sounding or seems the last seat in the nosebleed section.
It needs to Excite, not every recording will elevate your senses, but a good speaker should not make a bad recording sound worse. This leaves you with a small selection of perfectly recorded music your soon sick of.
More and more it seems speakers are voiced with so much boomy bass that female vocals are blurred and vialed unless the midrange is very forward.
I think what may have happened here is I got old. I mean I grew up on KLH model 6 and EL84 valves, and a Teac R2R with Hosda connects.
Not a bass heavy arrangement but it got the important stuff right, and so much of that is just a mess now even though technology is better and new materials that never existed then.
With computer software to voice everything right down to + or - 2 db.
I guess I miss the age of imprecation done right.
Ever feel unimpressed when everyone around you seems to be ? And you think to your self , Am I just to old now to get it?

sumday

18-11-2018, 21:27

I notice the latest version of Diamonds have a foam speaker suspension.
We are all aware of "foam rot" in 80s/90s speakers

Will these suffer the same fate or as a new formulation been discovered?

walpurgis

18-11-2018, 21:31

Will these suffer the same fate

Probably.

Beobloke

19-11-2018, 01:54

I asked this question of a speaker manufacturer a couple of years back and, allegedly, the foam they use these days is based around a different core material that does not suffer the same fate. I guess only time will tell.

On the bright side, I’m a big fan of foam rot. Speaking as someone who has re-foamed many, many speakers, its presence is a source of some great bargains!

dantheman91

19-11-2018, 22:42

Best ones i can think off slightly on the higher end of the scale

Celestion A1 Compacts

Pack a hell of a punch and worth every penny of the current value of £260

Michael loves music

20-11-2018, 09:30

I have tannoy Mercury V1 on atacama nexus stands in the lounge and master bedroom sound lovely got off eBay around £70 for each pair

steve-z

02-12-2018, 16:41

About a year ago a friend of mine made up a budget system which included a pair of Q Acoustics 2020i’s which he picked up from Richer Sounds for £99, he had found them extremely impressive for so little money, at the time I’d never even heard of QA. In my bedroom setup at the time I had a pair of Roth Oli RA1 speakers which were a similar price and I’d been quite impressed with them for several months. Having piqued my interest I periodically checked the 2020i’s price and a few weeks later RS dropped the price to £79 at which point I couldn’t resist getting a pair. I had the 2020i’s for several months and found them much better that speakers I’d previously owned at approaching 10x the price.
Although I haven’t heard any of the latest QA 3000 series, if QA have improved on the 2000 series I’m sure the 3010 or 3020 will be an excellent budget buy at their price points.

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