Windsor Hi-Fi Show Live 2018 - Any views?

[graham67]

Hi,

Did anyone go to this today? And what was it like?

I went to the very first show where you had to book timeslots and found it infuriating spending too much time in corridors outside locked rooms. And then when/if you finally got in a room you were stuck in there for 25 mins as lots of audiophile muzak was played. I swore never to go again.

I have been to and enjoyed most shows in the UK but this first effort was dreadful..

However I understand it is not so regimented nowadays. So I am thinking of tempting fate and giving it another go.

Any AOS visitor views most welcome!

Graham

[Primalsea]

I went yesterday. Pretty good actually and not all rooms had times slots, only really Absolute Sounds. My friends wanted to do 2 of the AS slots but I wish I never bothered. One room was mostly dcs equipment and Magico speakers and the speakers didn’t sound right to me. The other was mostly Audio Research and Wilson Audio. This was better but they only seemed to play music I don’t like in the demos and I wasn’t blown away buy the very expensive equipment.

BW was disappointing too. The sound seemed very safe and a bit lifeless to me. They used Chord and a Rega P8 which normally I like the sound of.

The Karma AV room with Falcon Acoustics LS3/5a speakers and Primare electronics was fantastic, just perfect for small listening rooms. Stunning really and much better than some of the other rooms that I just didn’t bother with because of what I could hear from the door.

The Kii room was really good too. The amount of work and technology that went onto these speakers is huge and they are great, another stunning listen.

CAD had some Wilson Benesch speakers that sounded good, if looked a little strange with a bottom mounted woofer that hung backwards out of the bottom of the speaker. Good but for £28K just for the speakers they seemed expensive, especially when you think that the Kii are £23K for something that includes DACS and amps and seemed at the very least on the same par.

Had a chat with a guy from Atlas cables who showed us their top of the range speaker cables at £5K per stereo metre. These are beautifully made cables that ooze quality and actually involve a lot of work but the main expense is the solid silver conductors that is purified and drawn by a proprietary method by only 3 factories in the world!

Didn’t get to see anymore. Next year I won’t bother with the AS demos as they take up too much time and I didn’t enjoy them this year or last year either, now that I think about it.

Overall a good day but a shame that I missed many of the rooms.

[graham67]

hi paul,

thanks for feedback. I will it a skip and maybe do next year with an advance tix. At least most of the rooms are not closed by sound of it!

Graham.

[YNWaN]

This was the show that was charging £22.00 entry wasn’t it?

———-
Wilson Benesch are overpriced IMO.

[Manicatel]

£20 a pop for Hifi companies to persuade punters to buy their products in rooms that are far from ideal, using music that’s not to the buyers taste................Hmmm.

[User211]

Decided to go today as I have never been.

Actually I thought it was pretty good. Nice grounds, nice building, not too crowded at all. But I hear Saturday was.

Was anything outstanding? No. I didn't get really impressed in any room. Only Munich can really do that it would seem. But there was some good stuff. Bit tired but I might manage a few photos and some banter/subjective rubbish in a bit after a glass or two of Disaronno, the sickly sweet but yummy stuff:D;)

[User211]

Quick bit of Techie porn...

This thing really is looking nice with the Glanz. I almost want one.

All shots are mobile only I am afraid. A OnePlus 6 with a recent upgrade to Android Pie. Which is full of bugs and even the recent update to the initial release has some way to go. The camera app was completely unfamiliar today and the camera really has a flash that is completely pathetic by normal camera standards. I must replace my Sony RX100, which is bust.

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[User211]

The grounds and place is quite nice...

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etc etc

[User211]

OK. So now for some more serious stuff.

KEF Muons. For the third and undoubtedly best time I have encountered them. A room to do them justice. And they do need space.

A huge Chord set up. It actually sounded good. Chord gear never sounds good. Something was wrong with this show. Chord gear didn't sound bad in another system, but more on that later.

So - effortless scale, something I value a lot. Smooth refined sound. Plenty of weight, but not excessive. Not a lot identifiably wrong, yet I didn't find it that engaging. They were playing loud, and decent enough music to boot. Not you average audiophile crap. Brownie points.

I guess I found it a little lacking in bite and speed. That's why I didn't get too immersed. I like to be overwhelmed to get really impressed - bombarded in fact. Didn't happen here. But it was good.

You could have fun in this room with some electronic dance music and the volume control. I suspect the SPL levels possible would be quite impressive.


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The room was about 3 times as long as in looks in the pic. I was sat in the front row there.

Impressive room.

[User211]

I didn't find the 'locked rooms' issue particularly valid. I walked straight in and got tickets immediately for 10:15 and 11 am showings of Ricardo's Absolute Sounds kit.

The first demo was a massive disappointment. Magico M6. The music selection for me was dire, which didn't help in any way, shape or form.

But basically, I could hear a boxy colouration, zero excitement factor/high zzzzzzzzz factor, quite a dry sound and a lack of detail that I would expect at this price, which is POA. The M3 costs £100K. So what do these cost?

Fed with Constellation amps (the Performance and Virgo), instead of the Jadis JA200 which were in the photo and had been promised at the door. That said, I am not sure the JA200 would really help matters, as this system needed an injection of brightness and dynamics that just WAS NOT there.

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In the same room - the Air Force 3, which I'd probably take over the Techie.

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And the Two. Which isn't as pretty.

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[User211]

Huh? Who merged my exclusive thread into another?

I'm not posting anymore...:(

Anyway, things got much better in the next AS room. Wilson's loaded with all ARC amps and DCS. Reps from all companies gave quick chats. Then the business started. And it was good business. Genuine dynamics, excellent resolution, good scale for speaker size, and some genuine HF.

I've maintained for decades that ARC kit matches WIlson's way better than any of Dan's efforts ever do. And the same rang true here. Genuinely good. Run the DCS through some valves and the sterility the DCS kit usually possesses drops by an appreciable margin, to the extent that it works.

I'd be amazed if anyone who heard the M6 in the same session as me didn't prefer this little set up. It might have been the best of the show. And for a lot less money than the M6 system.

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[hifinutt]

beautiful pics of the wilson room , just been looking at similar pics on american audio research site

the m6 cost 200 k , thanks so much for write up , would love to have to have been there

[User211]

The Wilson above was the new Sasha DAW. Dave may be dead, but the speakers live on.

Anyway onto the Maggie 20.7.

I spent the longest time in this room, trying to assimilate the attributes of this large Maggie. It is impressive scale wise. To my ears I felt it was slightly veiled. I don't know why but I couldn't help but think removing the grille cloth might help. Fed on a diet of Trilogy amps and a Brinkman TT, I reckon it held the attention of a big room full of people for a long time, with a presentation that was genuinely interesting.

Lots of comparisons using good recordings i.e. 50 year valve mics versus contemporary BBC mics (the former really sounding a lot nicer). 44.1K 16 bit, versus 192KHz 24 bit, versus 2xDSD, versus vinyl, versus open reel (which actually wasn't played due to tape issues?).

The vinyl rendition was the worst, I thought, though I think the Brinkman TT was very good. I just hear issues with vinyl, and felt I heard some tracking distortion and noise.

2xDSD seemed a bit smoother than the other digital offerings, but quite a small difference. 44.1K and 192K were basically the same, I thought.

Note this one done using the same performance, somehow.

So onto the Maggies. I couldn't live with them chiefly because of the lack of dynamics. The presenter kept on saying about how dynamic some of the tracks were and they probably are, but the speaker, whilst managing some dynamics, couldn't match the Wilson's, say, or get anywhere near my Apogees.

Don't get me wrong, it is a bloody good speaker if you don't mind this aspect. I felt a lot of people would really like them. Just not for me. Maybe different driving kit could get some more transient response from them. When playing a drum only track, speed and attack was definitely missing.

Anyway this room presentation was done by that Chasing the Dragon dude who used to turn up at Whittlebury a lot.

Hm. These mobile pics are better than I thought. They are starting to get quite good in mid priced phones.

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[mikeyb]

Quick bit of Techie porn...

This thing really is looking nice with the Glanz. I almost want one.

All shots are mobile only I am afraid. A OnePlus 6 with a recent upgrade to Android Pie. Which is full of bugs and even the recent update to the initial release has some way to go. The camera app was completely unfamiliar today and the camera really has a flash that is completely pathetic by normal camera standards. I must replace my Sony RX100, which is bust.

https://unyylg.db.files.1drv.com/y4mbjoFtaXvaXw8jjlxLTEHDeGEKfLoYBLurVy-T6SsBDdxWd0_S09tUztlNkbTW3o5BzfsKLnuxIAC7CN5ZzY7L7 SrFnWD3uqAYn7b794tasS37C3mtWhj6VXMxGqsmBiQn66R2nNF PH61SsexuuYg1AOgc6NuWYxQMr4KdwfIGcziz7t0mgruayOuVO Aboec6h5uxFb9U9e4QjJUGETPRwQ?width=4608&height=2176&cropmode=none

https://udyylg.db.files.1drv.com/y4mm_rdzZI3NygWGacbWG3cwsXNWbb5vFAJWIHfmAAg7cK9rUZ Vg4W4Q80Qe1PC1TvDtvJH34_9QRsBB9aOs013Px-rO-LPF_TWiN09PEFxX-sR3ItZ_7h7DJn7S8iAaMlMm_q2TH3xS-j8U39MsLp8z8bjxh_kwB_SPGj-sT3jCjZYeJ5DzpWYTRhUGAK-CnPWdOOo23AlAtz4zl71huIlpA?width=4608&height=2176&cropmode=none

https://t9yylg.db.files.1drv.com/y4mo8OglsFVg9ROMOKQc-mWES9Z7UesJKPImgZvqbF31wqvCF9Mdjg3yTNE1DhRlRjrtJva 0gsmABMJWWzvQ1l5sCW5ddx6L6K35KNbtW6T5777HkYXMvDdDw ZZCoO9cZOM7PRhuqjiezbul8hNH1NgPZzaAwRgnYqiSWVKMjAl hvRAYH44we-oev6yzgHEEuek_asYv6TwbqWlM4S4ehWeVg?width=4608&height=2176&cropmode=none

Black head shell surely not ?

Just looks so out of place against the gold and silver

[User211]

beautiful pics of the wilson room , just been looking at similar pics on american audio research site

the m6 cost 200 k , thanks so much for write up , would love to have to have been there

Credit where credit is due, Phil. But £200K for those? Hm. No.

No problem for the write up more to come.

[User211]

Black head shell surely not ?

Just looks so out of place against the gold and silver

Tis wrong but the rest is good. It's detachable no big deal you'd hope.

[Primalsea]

Great write up, much better than mine. I only took one photo and then forgot to take anymore after that. Also I didn’t manage to see most of the show.

I thought £22 entry was about normal for such a show. You get to see some impressive gear as well as hear it, although it doesn’t always sound as impressive as it looks. Had some really good chats with the guy from Falcon Acoustics and the chap who designed the Kii speakers. No hard sell from anyone, just people wanting to tell you about what they do.

[User211]

I blagged my way in for £17, telling her I had a digital subscription, which is true. It's Windsor. It's a nice venue. It isn't going to be cheap.

Kii Bruno was good when I was in there. The speakers were better than I was expecting. More on that tomorrow.

[mikeyb]

Tis wrong but the rest is good. It's detachable no big deal you'd hope.

Yip, looks like a “damn we forgot the head shell” moment lol

[brian2957]

Nice write up Justin . The photos are very good indeed so thanks for taking the time to post them :)

[jandl100]

Yup, great pix, Justin. :thumbsup:

Yes, Maggies and Apogees, large ribbon panels both, do things very differently.
Interesting about the Magico speakers, I've only heard them early on when I would have classified them as Pleasant. You want a lot more than that for the money, imo.

[User211]

The finish on those Maggies was lovely. I really liked the colour.

I think the smaller Maggies are more lively Jerry. Or maybe the Trilogy amps are a bit dead. Will check out their power rating later.

[antonio]

Great pics user211, and agree Audio Research are a better match than Dan's. I did not attend this year but the previous 2 years have been very disappointed in the Wilson room. One of the best (if not the best) was when they had the Wilson Max with Audio Research Reference amps, stunning.

[Frazeur1]

It appears the Trilogy amps are good for 200 wpc/8 Ohm from what little I looked at. Maybe that was a push for them in that room, who knows?

I have always liked Maggie’s, and have owned a few of their models over the years. I find their newer, smaller panels to be very good values, sound very good and as mentioned, maybe a bit more lively.

One thing though that I have found with them, is that they have a very slight “white noise” sound to them, and I apologize for that description, I have a difficult time to explain it really. Not annoying really, but there. I ran my Maggie’s pretty much with Pass Labs amp and preamp with older Wadia digital. Was a fun time.

Thanks for the show coverage/photos, great stuff!

[User211]

It appears the Trilogy amps are good for 200 wpc/8 Ohm from what little I looked at. Maybe that was a push for them in that room, who knows?


There are plenty of power amps that despite their power do not sound particularly dynamic in any way, shape or form. It maybe that these Trilogies are of that ilk.

I also listened to a Trilogy headphone amp at the show that sounded dull.

Some people just want easy going sound.

[User211]

Anyway, number one marks for weird goes to this room, with PS Audio kit in it.

This system has a camera to track your head and alter the sonics your head receives via making judgements about its position and applying some DSP. You had to be in the right seat (there was only one) for this to work, apparently. I wasn't in that seat.

Unsure what the speakers were.

I hope it isn't connected to the internet. If you're the type to get naked in front of yer hi-fi... it may have an infra-red wanker detection mode for all I know - alerting the relevant authorities:D

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Anyway, here's a close up shot of the power regen unit on display. Looks expensive, but kinda cool I think.

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[User211]

System above best explained by the show guide:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181112/df06bff8c26a559b2181f4f2b11baacb.jpg

[Macca]

Anyway, here's a close up shot of the power regen unit on display. Looks expensive, but kinda cool I think.

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Would be better if the display was orange but they are on the right lines design-wise.

[User211]

Headphone junkie room. I spent some time in here.

I picked up a pair of Focal Clear. £1400. Didn't like the bass much after a lot of playing. Seemed excessive, overly warm and ill-defined using a very sorted looking headphone amp.

Picked up a cheaper pair of Focals that felt lighter. Put them on. Wow - these are seriously good. Stacks of resolution - much more than the Clears. Seriously good, well resolved bass. "I'm buying these here and now. Are they mad, these are much better than the Clears. How much are they - I am paying it!!!"

So I found the price list. It turned out they were the Utopias, and my assessment of their relative cheapness based on looks was entirely wrong. £3499 (£3199 at the show). Dammit. No purchase after all:D

Seriously good cans if you use them enough to warrant that kind of money. I don't.

https://udbira.db.files.1drv.com/y4mtu1pEfWjv7hVquZJwWsjhLeFGww-qZbKSLjhxdieLXobzBBEsp0XZXRvYPLPAWX1QyTQqqBNnG9QWF VNpAM5iNhyw5lMwq0-tf1U0mWA7oR4Uc9FscNGvCgHfYYTixAdx-V-tYqrVznrVODvUFdAINQij_oA2zJtOTZLm0jEQb9iqxKJeSmg9L gJozwkdF9Ft_tm5JA4ntW2TdPo7_0z4Q?width=4608&height=2176&cropmode=none

[User211]

JBL time, sounding pretty good using some Emotiva SS amps & stuff, which a reputed to be good value.

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[User211]

Smaller JBLs, not playing.

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[graham67]

I didn't find the 'locked rooms' issue particularly valid. I walked straight in and got tickets immediately for 10:15 and 11 am showings of Ricardo's Absolute Sounds kit.



It sounds like things have changed since the very first Windsor event. I think I will make an effort to get along next year.

Great pix btw :)

[User211]

And some bigger JBLs. Only these were NOT sounding anywhere near good.

I think, and it is only my opinion, that the current JBL line up is really variable. The DD67000 and this KS S9900 are fails. They shouldn't be, but they are.

The 4637 is truly excellent. I loved it at Munich.

https://g3jlfq.db.files.1drv.com/y4mktqMPs2IW8tEPB-nsEkpymSS5fquzRAXdGdU5YK_03Bs3b20jwQeujLCGwNrDaQuv W0xPAdOUuh11WAxXaKLLcQGdcfmhAeZCvMcG7jIws4bXqtQ8zW YZbCj0gmkpfIaShGqeDCV9L7PC5w0LvBCybDY2ISRxPvSTALEx OSatj47MTRbCNJiRbYT93ichesJ2F46ftRZE1h3eX-TRLLkzg?width=4608&height=2176&cropmode=none

Hard to get a shot, off-centre but hey.

https://gxjlfq.db.files.1drv.com/y4mKzd6XqrL0FtUA6NketUfAMYST2R2-zyBqLOS-vAjdqdFQnw3lkFOSr_osw3HFSLZrTaL9s6Yne1eL66w4rGWIY7 uM2ADrwuKNlgRpJL668jeb-UQTS-UmcGOVn0hGY1EYEJTnsOk330zbviQmmVAVQcmB5eY8amxQDEJV NLKo0eKN1LIf6A5bucTldboXuaNxWLHab_6SCad5PfaH_xpIg? width=4608&height=2176&cropmode=none

Lots of expensive driving Mark Levinson malarkey. JBL/ML is the established mix. It works superbly with 4637. Not here, or with DD67000 I think and I have heard the DD67000 a few times. Conclude from that what you will, but I think DD67000 might work better with non-ML kit.

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[User211]

It sounds like things have changed since the very first Windsor event. I think I will make an effort to get along next year.

Great pix btw :)

I've never been before. But I bumped into Cyclopse of this forum, and he says the layout of the show is always the same year on year.

Maybe I just had a good time;) I like a hi-fi show and this seemed fresh to me as I'd never been.

[User211]

Quite a nice sounding Sonus Faber / DCS / ARC setup playing away without much attention or so it seemed.

https://fxi2cw.db.files.1drv.com/y4mh8DR44EvlzP2KITQMU1km7ZZF6YRO6gZ-gqKTTlOadTWzHfoJtkmf1EJOD0AL1km5Y0VAVOlz7_iqzYSy6b UVnUN8dE-AxNBKNXA8r4avT-oMOWvm43OOgdLF6ZYdBBtGRkvpZRaOQGnpJ8cd2Udc_KwHJGBM qqhbdtdh3ylyY1hMooxwDFMqq888vHMH8XBRebxy_ao-TKmNmY6E1uTUw?width=4608&height=2176&cropmode=none

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[User211]

Some static display Logans. But look, whilst the aluminium frames are rigid, the anodised finish is looking to be a problem.

It obviously chips. Not good.

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[User211]

Bruno Putzey's room.

So dark in there I only took one pic. But that's all you need in a sense because nearly all you need is in these speakers.

I was seriously not expecting these to sound good. But, but.... they did sound really quite good indeed! Musical, nice, well controlled bass. Very consistent dispersion when walking round the room. No obvious issues. Very enjoyable generally.

For me, they are not big enough. I'd want more scale, and I told Bruno so.

But still, damn good. And I really liked what Bruno had to say in this room. He's a geezer, a bit different to the personality I was expecting.

These things are quite configurable. And they are also quite complex. I suggest research but if you want an uncluttered, tuneable setup, and have around £25K to burn and a modern interior into which this will fall nicely, I would check them out.

I haven't had good experiences with some very expensive Hypex amps. But Bruno is severed from Hypex, and this system in NO WAY displayed any of the issues associated with said amps.

Strongly recommended subject to the conditions and caveats described above.

Do research here (http://www.kiiaudio.com/).

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[User211]

Convenient, easy, expensive, almost all-in-one, quite arguably non-enthusiast, designer Kii out the way, then.

To some Snell type K/II (?) circa 2018. Unsure if the AN/K is a Snell K mk 2 copy, or the original, but hey.

So a simple AN system, with the Ks sounding as good as they usually do, which I think is good. Still expensive overall. Really. Hi-fi is new. Stupidly so I think. But hey.

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Fabulous finish. Drool.

https://ttz9uq.db.files.1drv.com/y4mEZj3SktzgK_tYOqxx-q7-uARMiYeF_OmcEclBwqqqbbSsXDkWbXO65CwyzydaBbDbQ-XKJeIcyUq9fG_Eki_McfBZy-g3kY2b4tORCcHrdMOkyNFiqey58ZBqBBexQumaSh-2vxDWl68pyfX3fzZqsuHfQOhisx-p4lvwPMeaSDi2uAaszxQN5RwW2oMJKMJD6vo03SHTWOPBHkqV7 VBbQ?width=4608&height=2176&cropmode=none


https://t9z9uq.db.files.1drv.com/y4m8WFH_OAqa4O8xT7htcdEvkisQiEM2DWa7U2Kt-fsTv-0MUcnF3gIux1AMAKWBWrzC0ftzgZigKxVmm3O20ay8oCZDdHBw 46voach5cbG2qtuhlvHyssw4N0zsqLoZ6MkvhkXpNjD7o9737u WQsdUgA9kz-v1YhpKq4p4iHtRY9QMGkPpVDZm9erGFG_yjdl9q9Oy2du4x2Qb UbJXdxWebw?width=4608&height=2176&cropmode=none

[User211]

Award for most ridiculous thing said at the show?

Ricardo of Absolute Sounds in the M6 demo.

"Magico don't regard the huge speakers of the 90s as being necessary anyone."

After hearing the M6, you only needed to walk a few ten of metres to hear the KEF Muon prove this to be an entirely crazy assertion. Or indeed the Maggie 20.7 did it in even less steps. What precisely have Magico done with the M6 to prove this to be the case? Absolutely nothing.

Just telling it you like it is;)

[Macca]

Salesmen. Where would we be without them?

[User211]

Designed to be used against a wall with drivers at an odd angle and the tweeter partially obscured by wood to deliberately reflect its output in an unusual "enhancing" manner, the Larzen 9 from Sweden. To which one immediately thinks Shahinian. But hey. A bit odder than Shahinian, though, I would say, especially with regards to the tweeter.

A successful speaker? I'm not too sure. Some may like it but I wasn't struck. Doing things oddly results in odd results I would say. Not all the time, but maybe in this case. I think the Shahinian Arc is better (from memory).

Lumped in with the parallel tracking Clearaudio Reference Jubilee. A newbie next to the deck with the pink record on.

https://fxiaig.db.files.1drv.com/y4m0hnc3wgNZCvbe69BlyrxNqZqepTVlXW1Niz90sFykol1mCq NtxSKjGs4qzyl3hSTvD0mweqPQg2eyICD9dN_3swqYEFfS7vSK cHyAD6Ojdg0sV8G2RoCBvvzjSK4D9tgvsFHOoaKrGo1D35J7ub zoap7Ynv71R8TcF6Ybyd94YSLQKIfdhV-UaP2JjK9bea2gAKlGJJO-CAJqib-C68pjw?width=4608&height=2176&cropmode=none

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[User211]

Anything else worth mentioning?

A good guitar player playing through Avant Garde Duos. Maybe the best speaker at the show but not made much of on Sunday at least. I have a 4 minute video of it, but can't be arsed to post it.

Apart from that, not really.

Lovely Luxman to finish.

https://u9azog.db.files.1drv.com/y4mDBI5mVtGgTlikeStYEXicGcmbS6U_EnYqWTOK3oX8YOUQFM kFTVNeJZdJqA4rg1d_bhF0kAI7cIDNrFaOnS4OoIl43U_CoW1z yjeJwQvvqZZNWCfGfDbmGg3w5wYifuz9RZ5xKE6d6PG6LZBoQS DOTe-OeLbuCgO3ofGNvPDFZA5qUPwT4LUKd2M08FVPknhgaSDBMIq1U ZABoW_WvA5Ig?width=4608&height=2176&cropmode=none

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https://ttazog.db.files.1drv.com/y4mUDeBrh7WHgfumu1Qr2sL5WrnVNAs-sKedWFFwImncO5GUipcb2agwuORnMPPMRbiWlK986v9gd3nZCq 5QFQo9rO0vIJrZ677rhKEutmwPQqKcVIl2Q8WSzKg2gz1lKiBD HxtU16fdl1VYJ2AGJLfcEmajqyNukHXUDrt8Mp6bLO6PY4Xlcs uai2e9gVxTo2AlyVcM-Y60XxZhnV_TTq52g?width=4608&height=2176&cropmode=none

Absolutely all the pics, including fails (many rushed on room exits letting the next lot in, or just being useless, or the mobile being dodgy), are here (https://1drv.ms/f/s!ApUl1xxOUo0lkHUrOAUjs8DzT6x4).

I think this show gets less attention than maybe it deserves. It is better than Bristol, in many ways, and that gets a lot more.

[User211]

Salesmen. Where would we be without them?

Indeed. Or politicians making stupid, irrational decisions based on idiocy:mental: in public on the BBC?;):lol:

Synonyms:

stupidity, folly, foolishness, foolhardiness, madness, insanity, lunacy, silliness, brainlessness, thoughtlessness, senselessness, lack of sense, indiscretion, irresponsibility, injudiciousness, imprudence, rashness, recklessness, ineptitude, inaneness, inanity, irrationality, illogicality, absurdity, nonsense, ludicrousness, ridiculousness, fatuousness, fatuity, asininity, pointlessness, meaninglessness, futility, fruitlessness; informal craziness; informal daftness.

[Roy S]

Thanks for taking the time to post all the pics Justin. Had one of those Emotiva pres - a bit underwhelming. Liked the Luxman 'Belt drive analog player', looked just like a turntable :D

[Edward]

Great pictures and write up Justin - thanks. Makes me feel I was there. Went last year and saw some good stuff.

Would love to have listened to Bruno's Kii set up, having heard and read a lot on them.

Pink turntables - that is just plain wrong! Unless you are Lady Penelope. https://theartofsound.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

Surprised you found the Trilogy amps a bit dull. At the recent Hammersmith show Trilogy pre/power were driving some Wilsons with CAD source. Delightful (but crap small room).

[graham67]

Were the heritage JBL L100s being demoed?

[User211]

Great pictures and write up Justin - thanks. Makes me feel I was there. Went last year and saw some good stuff.

Would love to have listened to Bruno's Kii set up, having heard and read a lot on them.

Pink turntables - that is just plain wrong! Unless you are Lady Penelope. https://theartofsound.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

Surprised you found the Trilogy amps a bit dull. At the recent Hammersmith show Trilogy pre/power were driving some Wilsons with CAD source. Delightful (but crap small room).The jury is out on whether the Maggies or Trilogies were to blame I my book. Love to try some different amps on the 20.7.

IMHO it is the Maggies but as I said a different amp may pep them up at least a bit.

[Primalsea]

Designed to be used against a wall with drivers at an odd angle and the tweeter partially obscured by wood to deliberately reflect its output in an unusual "enhancing" manner, the Larzen 9 from Sweden. To which one immediately thinks Shahinian. But hey. A bit odder than Shahinian, though, I would say, especially with regards to the tweeter.

A successful speaker? I'm not too sure. Some may like it but I wasn't struck. Doing things oddly results in odd results I would say. Not all the time, but maybe in this case. I think the Shahinian Arc is better (from memory).

Lumped in with the parallel tracking Clearaudio Reference Jubilee. A newbie next to the deck with the pink record on.

https://fxiaig.db.files.1drv.com/y4m0hnc3wgNZCvbe69BlyrxNqZqepTVlXW1Niz90sFykol1mCq NtxSKjGs4qzyl3hSTvD0mweqPQg2eyICD9dN_3swqYEFfS7vSK cHyAD6Ojdg0sV8G2RoCBvvzjSK4D9tgvsFHOoaKrGo1D35J7ub zoap7Ynv71R8TcF6Ybyd94YSLQKIfdhV-UaP2JjK9bea2gAKlGJJO-CAJqib-C68pjw?width=4608&height=2176&cropmode=none

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I found these to sound very congested and I am starting to think the old excuse of the hotel rooms not being good is just that, an excuse. Some setups sound fantastic even in tiny rooms with obvious room modes and ceiling tiles flapping. The room detracts from the presentation in a few areas but overall the good gear shines through. I'm starting to think that a lot of high end gear is just not very good no matter where it is placed.

[Macca]

I found these to sound very congested and I am starting to think the old excuse of the hotel rooms not being good is just that, an excuse. Some setups sound fantastic even in tiny rooms with obvious room modes and ceiling tiles flapping. The room detracts from the presentation in a few areas but overall the good gear shines through. I'm starting to think that a lot of high end gear is just not very good no matter where it is placed.

Totally agree. And you go to these shows where the rooms are identical in every respect and one bloke is getting a good sound and next door is not.

[jandl100]

So .... the cable lifters didn't do a lot of good, then? :scratch: :lol:

[User211]

Totally agree. And you go to these shows where the rooms are identical in every respect and one bloke is getting a good sound and next door is not.Lotta bollocks spoken about room acoustics.

It is relevant, but still, I maintain the above statement.

[User211]

Were the heritage JBL L100s being demoed?No.

[User211]

So .... the cable lifters didn't do a lot of good, then? :scratch: [emoji38]No - definitely a downlifting experience:D

[Macca]

Lotta bollocks spoken about room acoustics.

It is relevant, but still, I maintain the above statement.

Yep. And don't get me started on the 'This hundred grand system would sound awesome but the mains supply in these hotels is so polluted it is making it sound unlistenable.'

If you believe that come and see me about purchasing some beach front property in Nevada. :eyebrows:

[walpurgis]

I found these to sound very congested and I am starting to think the old excuse of the hotel rooms not being good is just that, an excuse. Some setups sound fantastic even in tiny rooms with obvious room modes and ceiling tiles flapping. The room detracts from the presentation in a few areas but overall the good gear shines through. I'm starting to think that a lot of high end gear is just not very good no matter where it is placed.

Yup. To me, some high end equipment simply does not sound that great.

[Marco]

Yep. And don't get me started on the 'This hundred grand system would sound awesome but the mains supply in these hotels is so polluted it is making it sound unlistenable.'

If you believe that come and see me about purchasing some beach front property in Nevada. :eyebrows:

Lol... First of all, many thanks again to Justers for taking the time to post some great pictures and add comment, which has helped give folks who didn't attend the show that feeling of 'being there'. Always appreciated bro, so keep up the good work!:thumbsup:

In terms of the above, as ever it's a question of context, and also one of demonstrating a love for and pride in what you're doing... Adding some room treatment (within reason) and addressing the undoubtedly poor mains quality in hotel rooms, compared with what we're likely to enjoy at home, if successfully implemented, *will* always improve matters.

However, NEITHER bad mains nor poor room acoustics should make a system sound fundamentally broken. It will simply hinder its potential, but then there has to exist some potential in the first place! If equipment intrinsically sounds shit, then it won't matter a jot whether it's hard-wired to the national grid with 99.99999% pure-silver cable or housed in the most acoustically optimal room known to man!

In my experience, the best sounding rooms at shows are invariably ones which satisfy the following criteria:

1) The system in question has been properly thought out, in terms of the components chosen complimenting each other sonically and electrically, rather than assembled from a disparate collection of parts, cobbled together at the last minute, simply to fulfil an obligation. And rather crucially, the right speakers have been chosen for the room they'll be going into!

2) The day or night before the public are due to arrive, the demonstrator in question cared more about setting up the system properly, paying proper attention to every aspect of optimising its sonic presentation, *especially in terms of ensuring optimal speaker positioning* and eliminating, as far as possible, any 'room boom' or other obvious and undesirable sonic aberrations, than being first to bar!;)

3) The system in question is capable of playing a wide variety of ('real world') music, to a good standard, and not simply undemanding, yawn-inducing audiophile pap, at whisper levels, which would sound good on a clock radio, and at a realistic volume level, but not so loudly as to 'excite' the room in a bad way or that highlights the limitations of the system.

Plus it also helps if the demonstrator is himself or herself a music lover and able to use the system in question to demonstrate that fact advantageously, so that people attending leave the room having both been stimulated/impressed by the sound the system produced *and* in the choice of music used.

Generally speaking, the systems which get all or most of the above right will produce a more than acceptable result in ANY hotel room and leave punters happy!:cool:

Marco.