Cartrige set up tools

[Audio Al]

OK , here we go

What is the difference between this
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GT-MKII-LP-Turntable-Disc-Vinyl-Phono-Tonearm-Wheelbase-Adjustment-Ruler/312090683264?_trkparms=aid%3D333200%26algo%3DCOMP. MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20180409081753%26meid%3D9cb1b cb3e96a44189c6e341c8fd07cf1%26pid%3D100008%26rk%3D 1%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D232134515944%26itm%3D312090683 264&_trksid=p2047675.c100008.m2219

And This
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dr-Feickert-MkII-MK2-High-Precision-Cartridge-Alignment-Tool-Universal-Turntable/232134515944?hash=item360c4b9ce8:g:vwIAAOSwFc5XwZx a:rk:2:pf:0

And this
https://ammonite-audio.co.uk/product/smartractor-precision-alignment-tool/

I do understand that this one comes with a magnifying loupe

I am toying with the ides of buying one for my :christmas: prezzie :santa:

The top 2 look almost identical but £70 different in price :scratch:

[karma67]

go for a mint protractor,much better imo. the above are only good if you can see the dead center of your tonearm.

[hifi_dave]

The first two probably come from the same Chinese factory. As to the third - unless you are frequently fitting different arms to different turntables, it is overkill. To my mind, the piece of card which probably comes with your arm is plenty good enough.

[struth]

Or get a geo-disc. Been using one for years

https://www.mofi.com/product-p/mfslgd.htm

[Barry]

The first two probably come from the same Chinese factory. As to the third - unless you are frequently fitting different arms to different turntables, it is overkill. To my mind, the piece of card which probably comes with your arm is plenty good enough.

Agreed - it also assumes that all tone arms follow one of the three accepted geometries: Baerwald, Loefgren or Stevenson. They don't, so it is best to use the protractor supplied with the arm.

If the specific protractor is missing, then given the published effective arm length, overhand and offset angle for the arm, one can calculate the two null-radii and mark them on an existing protractor card.

[Mike Reed]

The original Dr. Feickert was, i.m.o., better, but those two Ebay one do look identical, one being a copy of the other, no doubt. The Smart Tractor with its mirror finish does have advantages, esp. for cart's with underslung styli. I believe the newer Dr. F. linked above has all four alignment parameters, whereas my original has only the three.

Unless you're changing arms or have revolving arm-boards (some N.A. and T.W. Acustic decks e.g.), you'll not use the expensive bit, the pivot to spindle measure. I think the Mint one mentioned above is arm specific. I love my Dr. F, but apart from its nil depreciation aspect, don't use it enough to justify its cost. Can't get along with some card/paper protractors and as for printing out from Vinyl Engine or wherever, forget it !

[KWJ]

For the past month I have been very focused on optimizing turntable performance so I have made a significant investment
in the worlds most accurate cartridge alignment tool Acoustical Systems SMARTacker with uni din geometry that is more accurate then the two last Feickert protractors I owned And for very fine tuning and optimization I bought newly released AnalogMagik software and test lps.
I thought my fine tuning by ear was very good but the software was better and finally gave me the ability to set VTA and SRA
very accurately and repeatable it was a bit costly for setup tools but it did make a noticeable improvement so I'm very happy with these tools.
As for the main difference in set up tools the are geometry and accuracy

Setup tools
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/baja47/IMG_1201.jpg (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/baja47/media/IMG_1201.jpg.html)
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/baja47/IMG_1199.jpg (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/baja47/media/IMG_1199.jpg.html)
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/baja47/IMG_1197.jpg (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/baja47/media/IMG_1197.jpg.html)

[Ammonite Audio]

For anyone who regularly swaps cartridges, tonearms a good single point protractor does save a great deal of time and effort, and the SMARTractor is the best, followed (IMO) by the Feickert. There are reasons why the SMARTractor costs what it does, starting with its extreme precision, alignment options for different inner/outer groove radii, mirrored surface that means you can 'sight' the cartridge clearly and knowing that you are in fact looking at it properly head-on. Acoustical Systems' proprietary UNI-DIN alignemnt geometry really does have benefits and is available nowhere else. The magnified viewer helps too, particularly enabling a cartridge to be aligned to the grid with utter accuracy, using the cantilever rather than the body as the reference, which I believe is logical. There are of course other protractors out there with mirrored surfaces, but none are 'universal' like the SMARTractor which is one of those things that only needs to be bought once. At this price, they don't exactly fly out of the shop door, but nobody who has bought one from me has regretted it - quite the opposite in fact.

We all flatter ourselves that we can set a tonearm/cartridge up with total accuracy using a simple paper template or similar, and it is possible to do that, with care, patience and a great deal of time. Setting the overhang and offset angle correctly is important since what some people might feel is a minor error does potentially translate into some obvious and audible tracing distortion characteristics. A single point jig like the SMARTractor or Feickert is a great help and saves time. Massively so in the case of the SMARTractor and it never takes me more than 15 minutes to set up a cartridge when using the SMARTractor, even when the cartridge has a rounded body and where the cantilever is largely obscured by the body.

For anyone who only changes cartridges rarely and does not wish to spend any money at all, my advice is to go to Conrad Hoffman's site and download his Arc Template Generator (Windows PCs only). That great little utility allows you to optimise the arc template for different inner and outer groove radii and you can choose different alignment geometries. It can take an age to set the cartridge overhang so the tip traces the arc truly and accurately, and you still have to align the cartridge to the grid (which is much easier with a mirrored device), but in terms of accurate alignment you can't really fault this approach except for its fiddliness and the time involved.

The Chinese clone of the Feickert gauge is reprehensible since it's is so clearly a cheap copy that may or may not be accurate. The SMARTractor won't appeal to anyone who rarely changes cartridges and tonearms and is undoubtedly expensive but for complete precision is unbeatable and for speed of use. That last nth degree of precision with setup does make a difference and I admit to being further surprised of the sound quality benefits of setting VTA, bias force compensation and azimuth (among other parameters) using the AnalogMagik computerised system mentioned in the post above. That really is a tool for dealers and true enthusiasts, but the benefits of precision setup are definitely there to be heard.





OK , here we go

What is the difference between this
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GT-MKII-LP-Turntable-Disc-Vinyl-Phono-Tonearm-Wheelbase-Adjustment-Ruler/312090683264?_trkparms=aid%3D333200%26algo%3DCOMP. MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20180409081753%26meid%3D9cb1b cb3e96a44189c6e341c8fd07cf1%26pid%3D100008%26rk%3D 1%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D232134515944%26itm%3D312090683 264&_trksid=p2047675.c100008.m2219

And This
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dr-Feickert-MkII-MK2-High-Precision-Cartridge-Alignment-Tool-Universal-Turntable/232134515944?hash=item360c4b9ce8:g:vwIAAOSwFc5XwZx a:rk:2:pf:0

And this
https://ammonite-audio.co.uk/product/smartractor-precision-alignment-tool/

I do understand that this one comes with a magnifying loupe

I am toying with the ides of buying one for my :christmas: prezzie :santa:

The top 2 look almost identical but £70 different in price :scratch:

[Tim]

I have to say the geek in me loves this, looks to be a very useful (and usable) bit of kit.

[paulf-2007]

Just print off a disc from vinyl engine. If you have a test record it comes with a cardboard disc with different set ups. If you just have more money than sense fill your boots.

[KWJ]

Just print off a disc from vinyl engine. If you have a test record it comes with a cardboard disc with different set ups. If you just have more money than sense fill your boots.

I find your comment very insulting because those of us that want every bit of performance out of are tables and will spend the money to get it you say we have no sense? Would you take your car in for an alignment and tell the tech don't bother putting it on the rack just use a string it will get the alignment close but your going to be buying a lot of tires.

I guess if your ok with putting in 20% effort to get the first 80% of the way there and not interested in putting the 80% effort to get the final
20% then I can see why your ok with inaccurate free protractor

For people that do not want to put out this kind of money for setup tools I would find a dealer that can do a high level turntable setup
for a nominal fee.

good isn't cheap
cheap isn't good

[smangus]

good isn't cheap
cheap isn't good

Actually I find Lidl's Delux range compares more than favourably with similar products from Sainsburys or indeed Waitrose :)

[Mike Reed]

That last nth degree of precision with setup does make a difference and I admit to being further surprised of the sound quality benefits of setting VTA, bias force compensation and azimuth (among other parameters) using the AnalogMagik computerised system mentioned in the post above. That really is a tool for dealers and true enthusiasts, but the benefits of precision setup are definitely there to be heard.

Excellent post, Hugo. The part quoted above concerns a box of tricks he brought round to a recent bake-off of mine. Quite apart from analysing the bias, VTF, azimuth etc. on my Transfiguration Proteus, it clearly showed a blip on the turntable revolution; not something one thinks about ! It could have been dirty belt or bearing wear/dirt. I've yet to investigate fully. I was both impressed (by the reasonable accuracy of my Dr. Feickert set-up), and puzzled (by the inaudible/strobe invisible rotational blip.

I'm a digital numpty, but, along with 5 others here, was impressed by this analytical tool.

[Audio Al]

That last nth degree of precision with setup does make a difference and I admit to being further surprised of the sound quality benefits of setting VTA, bias force compensation and azimuth (among other parameters) using the AnalogMagik computerised system mentioned in the post above. That really is a tool for dealers and true enthusiasts, but the benefits of precision setup are definitely there to be heard.

Excellent post, Hugo. The part quoted above concerns a box of tricks he brought round to a recent bake-off of mine. Quite apart from analysing the bias, VTF, azimuth etc. on my Transfiguration Proteus, it clearly showed a blip on the turntable revolution; not something one thinks about ! It could have been dirty belt or bearing wear/dirt. I've yet to investigate fully. I was both impressed (by the reasonable accuracy of my Dr. Feickert set-up), and puzzled (by the inaudible/strobe invisible rotational blip.

I'm a digital numpty, but, along with 5 others here, was impressed by this analytical tool.

And me Mike , Welcome to the Club :D

[RobbieGong]

Actually I find Lidl's Delux range compares more than favourably with similar products from Sainsburys or indeed Waitrose :)

:D

[paulf-2007]

good isn't cheap
cheap isn't good wrong

[walpurgis]

a cardboard template over the spindle is as good as any of those, but do what you will.

It's been good enough for me for the last 45 years and I never have any set-up or tracking problems. Maybe some obsess about it too much.

[paulf-2007]

It's been good enough for me for the last 45 years and I never have any set-up or tracking problems. Maybe some obsess about it too much.
+1

[struth]

Some enjoy the process and like to get exactness. No doubt the expensive one does that; Mikey has one and reckons it to be a great bit of kit.
As I said ive been using a geo-disc for many moons, in fact im on my second as i broke the first one. Its accurate enough for me and ive never heard any inner groove issues. It only checks one point, but seems to be enough and MOFI are not idiots.

[karma67]

it’s the end result that matters, not what you use to get there IMO

[Barry]

It's been good enough for me for the last 45 years and I never have any set-up or tracking problems. Maybe some obsess about it too much.

+2

There are some arms whose geometry does not follow the Baerwald, Löfgren or Stevenson prescription, so the use of 'universal' alignment protractors will not work with them.

[mikeyb]

I own a SmarTractor and think it’s brilliant, highly recommended I bought mine from Hugo.

I’ve used a Feikert in the past but i prefer the SmarTractor.

[paulf-2007]

For £400 I'd want something with a laser or camera to detect where the stylus is. They still rely on laying the stylus on a line or cross hairs.

[mikeyb]

For £400 I'd want something with a laser or camera to detect where the stylus is. They still rely on laying the stylus on a line or cross hairs.Have you tried one?

[Mike Reed]

I own a SmarTractor and think it’s brilliant, highly recommended I bought mine from Hugo.

I’ve used a Feikert in the past but i prefer the SmarTractor.

I've seen the SmarTractor, Mike (courtesy of Hugo) and was impressed, but more by the mirroring facility, as it otherwise seemed to emulate the Dr. Feickert. Did you own the original or the newer Dr. F., as I'm not smitten by the newer one ?

As I've mentioned, though, the pricy bit of both protractors (to me) is the facility to accurately measure spindle to pivot distance. Whereas you may change cart's a fair bit, you'd not need this facility anywhere near as often. If you have a regulation (!?) deck with fixed arm/mounting, this aspect would be redundant. I only needed something extra when I went from Orbe/Five to N.A. and 12" arms, as the SME protractor was quite enough, being specific to the arm.

[mikeyb]

I've seen the SmarTractor, Mike (courtesy of Hugo) and was impressed, but more by the mirroring facility, as it otherwise seemed to emulate the Dr. Feickert. Did you own the original or the newer Dr. F., as I'm not smitten by the newer one ?

As I've mentioned, though, the pricy bit of both protractors (to me) is the facility to accurately measure spindle to pivot distance. Whereas you may change cart's a fair bit, you'd not need this facility anywhere near as often. If you have a regulation (!?) deck with fixed arm/mounting, this aspect would be redundant. I only needed something extra when I went from Orbe/Five to N.A. and 12" arms, as the SME protractor was quite enough, being specific to the arm.Think I tried the older Feikert, it was borrowed from Ali Tait.

At the time I bought the SMARTractor I hadn't settled on a cartridge, so for me it made sense to get the best out of any I bought/tried until I found one I liked.

Ok it wasn't cheap but in the grand scheme of things ie: £1000's on turntable/cartridge/amp/speakers etc I didn't think it was a wasted investment.

I've probably used it at least a dozen times since buying it. In fact I used it last week when I swapped in a different headshell.

It's simple to use, easy to set up which is a bonus when fiddling with cartridges [emoji6]

[topoxforddoc]

Correct set up is VITAL if you want the best from your record player. Unless you have a linear tracking tonearm, you will get tracing distortion over the arc off= the tonearm. Minimising that and getting VTF, VTA and bias correct are all really important. The good thing is that once you've got it correct, it stays pretty much the same.

If you're into analogue R2R tape, correct set up is part of every tape I play. Decent R2R tapes have line up tones at the head, so that you can check replay hard azimuth and levels to ensure the optimum playback of that particular tape. Imagine that on your turntable - checking for every LP. I have spent far more than £400 on equipment to optimise my R2R machines' capabilities.

[KWJ]

Picked up my new Jelco SA 750 DB arm and a new Goldring 2500 cartridge last night and got around to setting it all up on my
Technics SL 1210 M5G this morning this will be the forth time using my SMARTracker and I love how accurate and how easy it is to use. I have used almost all forms of of turntable setup tools and protractors over the past 40 plus years and with out a doubt the
SMARTracker is the best on the planet at this moment.
It took about an 1hrs. to install the arm and set up the cartridge to UNI-DIN Geometry. Then about 3hrs. optimizing and very
fine tuning with AudioMagik software and test lps.

I am very impressed and happy with all aspects and results of using the SMARTacker and AudioMagik tools and software
worth every penny.
I couldn't imagine setting up a table now with out using the above system it would drive me crazy using anything else
knowing it wouldn't be fully optimized and performing at its possible best.
Being a motorcycle mechanic and custom bike builder I love specialty tools and they are costly no matter what application or trade
they are needed for.
The right tools a little time learning and getting comfortable with the tools and the results will be unbeatable and absolutely
jaw dropping

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/baja47/IMG_1226.jpg (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/baja47/media/IMG_1226.jpg.html)

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/baja47/IMG_1229.jpg (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/baja47/media/IMG_1229.jpg.html)
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk314/baja47/IMG_1231.jpg (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/baja47/media/IMG_1231.jpg.html)

[Audio Al]

Kevin
What is the item on the stand ? is it a usb microscope ? and the item in image 2 is a ?

Thanks

[KWJ]

Kevin
What is the item on the stand ? is it a usb microscope ? and the item in image 2 is a ?

Thanks

yes its a usb microscope and the other is fixed at .6 inch pound torque drive for cartridge mounting screws
Most the time people really over tighten these screws

[paulf-2007]

Have you tried one?
No and not likey to

[Perart1]

No and not likey to

Ah that explains it. no likey either

[alphaGT]

I find your comment very insulting because those of us that want every bit of performance out of are tables and will spend the money to get it you say we have no sense? Would you take your car in for an alignment and tell the tech don't bother putting it on the rack just use a string it will get the alignment close but your going to be buying a lot of tires.

I guess if your ok with putting in 20% effort to get the first 80% of the way there and not interested in putting the 80% effort to get the final
20% then I can see why your ok with inaccurate free protractor

For people that do not want to put out this kind of money for setup tools I would find a dealer that can do a high level turntable setup
for a nominal fee.

good isn't cheap
cheap isn't good

I fail to see why you take offense to this post? If one wants to do it themselves rather than pay someone else to do it, and save the money, how does that harm you?

And one should keep in context how much they have invested, if you have a $400 ‘table with a $120 cartridge, I don’t see it being wise to spend $400 on a protractor. But! If you’ve got a $15,000 record player with $4,000 cartridge, then a $400 protractor makes perfect sense.

And as far as accuracy, I made my own templates from the dimensions listed at Vinyl Engine, and I promise they are laser accurate. Using a stainless steel engineer’s rule and a razor knife, my template was within a fraction of a millimeter. I also used a super thin travel mirror, and a 20x magnifying loop in my setup. Cost? Next to nothing. But, it was time consuming and required some effort, and understanding of the geometries involved.

For those who wish to buy a nice protractor, I say more power to you! It offers great accuracy and repeatable results in short time and effort. But don’t think that one can’t equal those same results if they are willing to put in the time and effort to do it themselves. I personally rarely change cartridges, but for those who like to change them often, the savings in time and effort using a good store bought protractor can really pay off. To each their own.

Russell

[paulf-2007]

Ah that explains it. no likey either
Where the L did that L go?

[paulf-2007]

I fail to see why you take offense to this post? If one wants to do it themselves rather than pay someone else to do it, and save the money, how does that harm you?

And one should keep in context how much they have invested, if you have a $400 ‘table with a $120 cartridge, I don’t see it being wise to spend $400 on a protractor. But! If you’ve got a $15,000 record player with $4,000 cartridge, then a $400 protractor makes perfect sense.

And as far as accuracy, I made my own templates from the dimensions listed at Vinyl Engine, and I promise they are laser accurate. Using a stainless steel engineer’s rule and a razor knife, my template was within a fraction of a millimeter. I also used a super thin travel mirror, and a 20x magnifying loop in my setup. Cost? Next to nothing. But, it was time consuming and required some effort, and understanding of the geometries involved.

For those who wish to buy a nice protractor, I say more power to you! It offers great accuracy and repeatable results in short time and effort. But don’t think that one can’t equal those same results if they are willing to put in the time and effort to do it themselves. I personally rarely change cartridges, but for those who like to change them often, the savings in time and effort using a good store bought protractor can really pay off. To each their own.

Russell
Very well said Russell, personally I couldn't be wasting my time on it, but I thank you for doing so.

[KWJ]

I fail to see why you take offense to this post? If one wants to do it themselves rather than pay someone else to do it, and save the money, how does that harm you?

And one should keep in context how much they have invested, if you have a $400 ‘table with a $120 cartridge, I don’t see it being wise to spend $400 on a protractor. But! If you’ve got a $15,000 record player with $4,000 cartridge, then a $400 protractor makes perfect sense.

And as far as accuracy, I made my own templates from the dimensions listed at Vinyl Engine, and I promise they are laser accurate. Using a stainless steel engineer’s rule and a razor knife, my template was within a fraction of a millimeter. I also used a super thin travel mirror, and a 20x magnifying loop in my setup. Cost? Next to nothing. But, it was time consuming and required some effort, and understanding of the geometries involved.

For those who wish to buy a nice protractor, I say more power to you! It offers great accuracy and repeatable results in short time and effort. But don’t think that one can’t equal those same results if they are willing to put in the time and effort to do it themselves. I personally rarely change cartridges, but for those who like to change them often, the savings in time and effort using a good store bought protractor can really pay off. To each their own.

Russell

This is what Paul said that I found insulting ." If you just have more money than sense fill your boots." other then that I really don't care
that much about this and I have moved past it.

I hope everyone is as happy with there system as I am with mine
Have a great weekend
Enjoy the music
Peace

[alphaGT]

This is what Paul said that I found insulting ." If you just have more money than sense fill your boots." other then that I really don't care
that much about this and I have moved past it.

I hope everyone is as happy with there system as I am with mine
Have a great weekend
Enjoy the music
Peace

Thank you for your candor, I honestly didn’t catch that. And yes I agree, if a nice protractor makes you happy, then by all means! I see all manner of money wasted on tweaks and gimmicks, but a good protractor is certainly not one of them! I would say that I’d much like to have one! If I could justify the cost to myself, or if someone gave me one, I’d be thrilled!

But I like the idea that I did it myself, I got my head wrapped around the complex geometry and mastered the task. If I changed my cartridge today, I’d do the same, but if I changed cartridges on any frequency, I think I’d like to have a good protractor to speed things along, and make quick, dependable work of it.

Russell

[Audio Al]

:sofa: can I come out now :D

[Mike Reed]

:sofa: can I come out now :D

Didn't know you were like that !:D

[Audio Al]

Didn't know you were like that !:D

:eek: CLARIFICATION , " FROM BEHIND THE SOFA " nothing else , Phew !!!!!!!

[mikeyb]

:eek: CLARIFICATION , " FROM BEHIND THE SOFA " nothing else , Phew !!!!!!!

:lol: