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Got stuck behind an accident on the M5 this morning for over an hour, it was cold and raining so I kept the engine running to keep warm and keep the windows clear.
This got me thinking, it's not uncommon for cars to be stuck on motorways for many hours following serious crashes. Now let's hypothetically jump forward 20 years when everybody will drive electric cars, let's say several hundred cars are stuck on a motorway for hours and keep their heaters, aircon etc running, when the road is reopened you could have several hundred stranded cars with flat batteries and nowhere to charge them.
...it's not uncommon for cars to be stuck on motorways for many hours following serious crashes. Now let's hypothetically jump forward 20 years when everybody will drive electric cars...
The cars will all be self-driving, and there will be no accidents.
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The cars will be running bug-free software. Unfortunately there's no such thing...
walpurgis
07-11-2018, 23:36
The cars will all be self-driving, and there will be no accidents.
Just as there aren't with the self flying planes we have now.
GPS will have a heck of a long way to go before vehicles can accurately self drive in all areas.
GPS will have a heck of a long way to go before vehicles can accurately self drive in all areas.
I'm guessing they'll get the motorways dialed in pretty quickly.
[emoji23]
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Even motorways have stretches which are similar to the big GPS issue of "urban canyons". It's going to need standards and mesh networks...oh and perfect software.
We'd better have charging points to help with the problem Gary identified.
We'd better have charging points to help with the problem Gary identified.Are you gonna tell Elon, or should I?
[emoji23][emoji23][emoji102][emoji50][emoji54][emoji46]
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Beobloke
08-11-2018, 04:13
You’ll have to get towed home by a nice man in a diesel flat-bed before charging your car at home on a petrol powered generator!
You’ll have to get towed home by a nice man in a diesel flat-bed before charging your car at home on a petrol powered generator!
That's the sort of thing I was getting at, but where will you find all those recovery vehicles? It could take days to clear the motorway
The cars will all be self-driving, and there will be no accidents.
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Let's assume they won't be.
Pigmy Pony
08-11-2018, 07:27
I'm guessing they'll get the motorways dialed in pretty quickly.
[emoji23]
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Don't see that happening. Parts of the M6 south of Manchester is being 'upgraded' to smart motorway, and that's taking YEARS. And doing away with the hard shoulder doesn't seem smart to me.
I think the money would be better spent researching teleportation technology (beam me over Musky).
Primalsea
08-11-2018, 07:40
Don't see that happening. Parts of the M6 south of Manchester is being 'upgraded' to smart motorway, and that's taking YEARS. And doing away with the hard shoulder doesn't seem smart to me.
I think the money would be better spent researching teleportation technology (beam me over Musky).
Over the last couple of weeks I have had to drive the full length of the M6 4 or 5 times. It wasn’t fun...
The thing with electric cars is that when all things are considered I am not sure they are actually more environmentally friendly than regular cars. Does anyone know how much energy and work is required to manufacture an electric car and the chemicals involved in the production of the battery?
Pigmy Pony
08-11-2018, 07:46
Oh for sure there'll be a carbon footprint - everything has one (even my eating a tin of beans, from manufacture to noxious fart gas will have one). They'll be playing it down, so as not to put off buyers.
The thing with electric cars is that when all things are considered I am not sure they are actually more environmentally friendly than regular cars. Does anyone know how much energy and work is required to manufacture an electric car and the chemicals involved in the production of the battery?
I expect it pretty much balances out though much depends on how electricity is generated. One the EVs will do is to shift pollution from cities...to enable us to properly pollute the whole planet.
Stryder5
08-11-2018, 09:11
There will be power blackouts because we cannot generate enough electricity, therefore there will not be many cars on the road to cause major pile ups.
We'll all be at home in the dark.......or on Mars......lol
vehicles doing a lot of town work are better being electric or part electric pollution wise. polluted air is one of the major issues for childrens health.(or so i'm told) keep the clean diesels for the longer range stuff. Are electric vehicles the way forward? ..who knows but something has to give soon. when i was young not every household had a car, by a long way. now most have 1, or often many more. Our cities and roads in general are not big enough to take them all so we need to also reduce the ammount of vehicles on roads especially at peak times.
Trouble is, how to solve this conundrum....persuade people to embrace public transport? maybe, but its going to cost more than cars do, adn you have to first train the people to not be dickheaded and behave in a reasonable way when on it.
We'll all be at home in the dark.......or on Mars......lol
Blimey it's all a bit DOOM DOOM DOOM on here isn't it?
The entire thread seems to be based on the idea that in 20 years time the EV technology will not have advanced, and furthermore that people are so stupid that they would intentionally run down all their batteries listening to the radio... I mean leaving aside the fact that a TESLA car battery capable of propelling a car 350 miles is not going to run down powering the AC for a couple of hours how often do people run or of petrol? Why on earth are EV different?
The DOOM for us is in continued reliance on fossil fuels, as you all know. It's hilarious that anyone should be griping about movements towards a solution.
https://www.sciencealert.com/scientists-develop-liquid-that-sucks-up-sun-s-energy
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well i'm not.. im moving into the ev market myself. If it is better or not for the planet etc is not really my concern; thats for others to decide i guess. but it cant, in my opinion be any worse. as i do most of my mileage in towns its wise to help things a bit. i should also benefit from lower fuel costs so its win win for me.
EV vehicles have come a long way in a short time, and will continue to advance, and become cleaner as they do. to not support it will hamper such advances imv
Sorry Grant, I meant to say you were the exception.
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EVs are a significant way forward in a number of ways though we need to look things holistically and at scale. It's great when new ideas start out. It's when they become industrial scale that to issues occur, eg with EVs it's power generation mainly but this can and is being worked on such that the extra power is from renewable sources. Industrial scale is the issue, for example Vegans being eco-friendly have ramped up the need for soya so the industrial response is to cut down rainforest to grow it. Avocado production is uo, they need massive amounts of scare water to grow...etc. It's the fault of how we allow companies to go about making a profit not EVs and Vegans per se. Sorry for the diversion.
Blimey it's all a bit DOOM DOOM DOOM on here isn't it?
The entire thread seems to be based on the idea that in 20 years time the EV technology will not have advanced, and furthermore that people are so stupid that they would intentionally run down all their batteries listening to the radio... I mean leaving aside the fact that a TESLA car battery capable of propelling a car 350 miles is not going to run down powering the AC for a couple of hours how often do people run or of petrol? Why on earth are EV different?
The DOOM for us is in continued reliance on fossil fuels, as you all know. It's hilarious that anyone should be griping about movements towards a solution.
https://www.sciencealert.com/scientists-develop-liquid-that-sucks-up-sun-s-energy
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I'm not talking about a couple of hours, it's not unheard of for cars to be stuck on motorways for 6 hours, if that happens to be during cold weather occupants will need to have heaters on out of necessity.
Regarding the Tesla's alleged 350 mile range, posts on owners forums suggest that 250 is more realistic in real life, I have no idea what several hours with the heater running will use in terms of capacity but as it will presumably be powering an electric heating element of some kind plus an electric motor I would imagine it would be quite a drain?
Whether or not EVs are a solution is a moot point, as has already been mentioned the production process and actually charging the vehicles MAY have a greater environmental impact than anyone realises.
Pigmy Pony
08-11-2018, 18:58
If I get an electric vehicle and need to make a journey in cold weather, I will take a paraffin heater with me. Not seen a paraffin heater in decades, so it's unlikely that I'll add much to air pollution.
Doesn't do to rely on any one technology - that's why my central heating makes hot water but I still have an electric shower.
Still think the way to go is electric with a small petrol engine to recharge if needed. Think there was some intended to work this way at one time. dunno if it ever came to be. wouldnt need to be huge, just enough to boost the charging process, but not use much fuel
walpurgis
08-11-2018, 19:23
If I get an electric vehicle and need to make a journey in cold weather, I will take a paraffin heater with me. Not seen a paraffin heater in decades, so it's unlikely that I'll add much to air pollution
Well it'll keep the car warm, might tip over on corners though. Still, the fire engine should have no trouble spotting the nice orange glow on the horizon.
Pigmy Pony
08-11-2018, 19:26
You could always tow a horse box just in case (obviously with a horse in it - an empty horse box would be pointless and silly). Then if the batteries die your horse can tow you, your car and your horse box to the nearest charging station or pile of hay.
Primalsea
08-11-2018, 21:48
I think that the real way forward is to change peoples attitudes towards what they actually need in regards to transport and target the countries that cause the biggest problems. Never happen I know!
Once when travelling to Houston I booked a car that was an equivalent to a 2.0 Ford Mondeo. In the UK this would be considered (by some) a comfortable family car suitable for long journeys. When I got to the hire counter the lady there was pushing the upgrade and asked how many people would be in the car, to which I replied two. She then asked where I would be driving, to which I said around Houston and maybe a day out to Corpus Christy. She looked at me strangely and said that the car I booked was not really suitable for two people on a long journey and really only good for the odd short journey around town. I expalined that in the UK such a car would be fine for a family and she just could not comprehend it at all.
Really people could easily have much smaller engined cars for day to use in some places...
Well it'll keep the car warm, might tip over on corners though. Still, the fire engine should have no trouble spotting the nice orange glow on the horizon.
If that did happen all the people stranded could keep warm around the burning wreckage and even cook some sausages. It's a win win.
walpurgis
08-11-2018, 22:15
If that did happen all the people stranded could keep warm around the burning wreckage and even cook some sausages. It's a win win.
Ah yes. The pack of emergency sausages was always a good optional extra to have on a car.
Pigmy Pony
08-11-2018, 22:34
So my electric car will need the optional sausage cooler then. More strain on the batteries.
So my electric car will need the optional sausage cooler then. More strain on the batteries.
A sausage cooler or " fridge " as it's known in the trade would be quite a drain on the batteries. The best solution would be an additional petrol engine generator, say a V6 or maybe a V8 to be on the safe side.
Save the planet. Buy tinned sausages
Remember you read it here first
Save the planet. Buy tinned sausages
Remember you read it here first
Yes, good call, no plastic pollution there.....other than the actual sausages
Glove compartment on my skoda was a cool box. Quite good one too. Kept your water nice
walpurgis
08-11-2018, 23:02
So my electric car will need the optional sausage cooler then. More strain on the batteries.
No, they're freeze dried, vacuum packed and irradiated, with a seventy year use by date. Just soak in water and bung on the barbie (not doll :)).
So my electric car will need the optional sausage cooler then. More strain on the batteries.We're only going to need the sausages in the really cold weather to cook on the burning wreckage caused by your paraffin heater, so they can just be kept in a box on the roof.
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I've just realised that in 20 years the PC brigade will be in control so there'll only be free range fair trade dolphin friendly organic vegan sausages available, they won't need refrigerating, nor will they be enjoyable to eat but at least they won't offend anybody.
Beobloke
09-11-2018, 05:31
I'm not talking about a couple of hours, it's not unheard of for cars to be stuck on motorways for 6 hours, if that happens to be during cold weather occupants will need to have heaters on out of necessity.
.
This is the point. A couple of weeks ago I found myself moving just over a mile in 4 hours on a closed M25 at 6 in the morning. Because of the conditions, I needed lights, wipers and the heater.
I would need to be convinced that a Tesla could cope with this, when it seems that the electrically opening doors cannot even manage to work out when someone is in the way, and smacks them in the nuts by opening the door when they are stood beside it! (It was in a car park, and the nuts in question were mine!).
As an aside, why the hell does it need electrically opening doors? Surely if you’re relying on the battery for everything, then stuff like this is a waste of precious charge!
Once when travelling to Houston I booked a car that was an equivalent to a 2.0 Ford Mondeo. In the UK this would be considered (by some) a comfortable family car suitable for long journeys. When I got to the hire counter the lady there was pushing the upgrade and asked how many people would be in the car, to which I replied two. She then asked where I would be driving, to which I said around Houston and maybe a day out to Corpus Christy. She looked at me strangely and said that the car I booked was not really suitable for two people on a long journey and really only good for the odd short journey around town. I expalined that in the UK such a car would be fine for a family and she just could not comprehend it at all.
Really people could easily have much smaller engined cars for day to use in some places...
The lady was quite correct. 2.0 - 3.0 litres is adequate for town driving and short distances. Proper motoring requires at least 3.0 litres and a bare minimum of 6 cylinders. Anything under 2.0 litres is merely for comedy value. I’ll pause here for you all to laugh and jeer at my pathetic 1.8 litres...
On an only very slightly more serious note, the last time I had a hire car in the USA, it was some nasty Korean thing with a 2 litre engine. However, it was noisy and completely and utterly gutless. I gather it’s all down to emission control, but Americans do seem to have a knack of squeezing feeble amounts of grunt out of their engines so I’m not surprised they go for bigger ones.
This is the point. A couple of weeks ago I found myself moving just over a mile in 4 hours on a closed M25 at 6 in the morning. Because of the conditions, I needed lights, wipers and the heater.
I would need to be convinced that a Tesla could cope with this, when it seems that the electrically opening doors cannot even manage to work out when someone is in the way, and smacks them in the nuts by opening the door when they are stood beside it! (It was in a car park, and the nuts in question were mine!).
As an aside, why the hell does it need electrically opening doors? Surely if you’re relying on the battery for everything, then stuff like this is a waste of precious charge!
The lady was quite correct. 2.0 - 3.0 litres is adequate for town driving and short distances. Proper motoring requires at least 3.0 litres and a bare minimum of 6 cylinders. Anything under 2.0 litres is merely for comedy value. I’ll pause here for you all to laugh and jeer at my pathetic 1.8 litres...
On an only very slightly more serious note, the last time I had a hire car in the USA, it was some nasty Korean thing with a 2 litre engine. However, it was noisy and completely and utterly gutless. I gather it’s all down to emission control, but Americans do seem to have a knack of squeezing feeble amounts of grunt out of their engines so I’m not surprised they go for bigger ones.
About ten years ago I had a Saturn Ion hire car in Florida, it was marketed as a Sports Compact and was Focus sized but with a 2.4 litre engine.
Sports?
Really?
Totally gutless engine, autobox that was always in the wrong gear for every occasion, suspension made from tailgate struts and biro springs (pretty sure I scraped the door mirror on the road when cornering fast) and the steering wheel was connected to the front wheels with wet string.
Beobloke
09-11-2018, 10:16
Indeed, in fact it never ceases to amaze me, given that the USA is supposedly the home of automatics, how dreadful some of their cars’ autoboxes are!
The major car companies are aiming to have these fully autonomous vehicles going in next 10 years. no wheel, no accelerator etc... i dont fancy that
The major car companies are aiming to have these fully autonomous vehicles going in next 10 years. no wheel, no accelerator etc... i dont fancy that
Can't say I do either.
I think people's misgivings are due to comparisons with PCs, remember the old "If Microsoft made cars" joke?
"Are you sure you want to apply the brakes?" etc
The major car companies are aiming to have these fully autonomous vehicles going in next 10 years. no wheel, no accelerator etc... i dont fancy that
Are you a getaway driver by any chance ����
StanleyB
09-11-2018, 11:29
The major car companies are aiming to have these fully autonomous vehicles going in next 10 years. no wheel, no accelerator etc... i dont fancy that
It's already possible to travel that way. It's called public transport. The difference with what the car companies want to do is to sell you a vehicle that you have no pleasure in driving.
It's already possible to travel that way. It's called public transport. The difference with what the car companies want to do is to sell you a vehicle that you have no pleasure in driving.
Major difference being you know your self driving car will turn up on time, you won't have to stand in the rain waiting to get into it, any mess on the seats will be your own, you won't have to sit next to a weird/smelly/fidgety person, you can listen to music at whatever volume you choose, it won't be on strike, you can stop and get out anywhere you like (within reason) shall I carry on?
re self driving cars how will it work if a child runs out in front of you? Will the car take avoiding action even if that means a collision with other vehicles or will it prioritise its passenger and just run the child down?
Will we be able to select which option it prioritises?
What about if it is a dog or a cat? Round here the pigeons like to stand on the road until cars are about a foot away then they take off. Mostly they make it.
Obviously most human drivers won't do an emergency stop for a pigeon whereas they would for a dog or a cat. So how will the car distinguish between dog, cat, pigeon, child or just some sun-dazzle off an oil spill that fools its sensors into thinking it is a dog/cat/child or whatever?
It's really not been thought through.
re self driving cars how will it work if a child runs out in front of you? Will the car take avoiding action even if that means a collision with other vehicles or will it prioritise its passenger and just run the child down?
Will we be able to select which option it prioritises?
What about if it is a dog or a cat? Round here the pigeons like to stand on the road until cars are about a foot away then they take off. Mostly they make it.
Obviously most human drivers won't do an emergency stop for a pigeon whereas they would for a dog or a cat. So how will the car distinguish between dog, cat, pigeon, child or just some sun-dazzle off an oil spill that fools its sensors into thinking it is a dog/cat/child or whatever?
It's really not been thought through.
Also, in today's blame culture, who will be held accountable if the car "decides" to run the child over?
Also, in today's blame culture, who will be held accountable if the car "decides" to run the child over?
The car will be tried in a Court of Law and if found guilty it will have its artificial intelligence chips removed one by one, a bit like in '2001 A Space Odyssey'.
'Open the off-side passenger door, Hal'
'I'm afraid I can't do that Dave.'
And so forth...
walpurgis
09-11-2018, 13:33
Also, in today's blame culture, who will be held accountable if the car "decides" to run the child over?
The parents naturally, who would also be liable for any damage to the car.
Probably be chavs with no money so you won't get much joy there.
Dogs and cats will have to have implants to prevent them causing a possible accident with a car, probably children and adults too in due course. If a car enters any street with animal life form present the car will be wary of animals movements and vice versa, eventually a state of complete stasis will develop and the world will be left to the pigeons.
Cripes! that new medication is strong!
walpurgis
09-11-2018, 14:18
Probably be chavs with no money so you won't get much joy there.
Chavs will be enslaved and forbidden to breed by then.
Probably be chavs with no money so you won't get much joy there.
Or your yummy mummy* type who believes that little George or Madison have the right to express their individuality by running into the road and it is entirely the responsibility of the car/driver to avoid him/her
*You know, the ones who, when speaking very loudly to the child, refer to themselves as Mummy in the third person and usually try to slip the fact they don't have a TV or that they eat organic food in to the conversation expecting everybody within earshot (100m) to be impressed
They Like organic food coz it's trendy but little Kanu can't play outside as there are organic germs out there
Or your yummy mummy* type who believes that little George or Madison have the right to express their individuality by running into the road and it is entirely the responsibility of the car/driver to avoid him/her
*You know, the ones who, when speaking very loudly to the child, refer to themselves as Mummy in the third person and usually try to slip the fact they don't have a TV or that they eat organic food in to the conversation expecting everybody within earshot (100m) to be impressed
Yes, I do know the type and I'd rather we stopped them breeding than the chavs. I'm hoping they'll all piss off to their 'second homes' in Tuscany or wherever after Brexit but it's wishful thinking isn't it?
Yes, I do know the type and I'd rather we stopped them breeding than the chavs. I'm hoping they'll all piss off to their 'second homes' in Tuscany or wherever after Brexit but it's wishful thinking isn't it?
Glad it's not just me.
Virtually every time we go out for a meal we end up sitting near one of them
re self driving cars how will it work if a child runs out in front of you? Will the car take avoiding action even if that means a collision with other vehicles or will it prioritise its passenger and just run the child down?
Will we be able to select which option it prioritises?
What about if it is a dog or a cat? Round here the pigeons like to stand on the road until cars are about a foot away then they take off. Mostly they make it.
Obviously most human drivers won't do an emergency stop for a pigeon whereas they would for a dog or a cat. So how will the car distinguish between dog, cat, pigeon, child or just some sun-dazzle off an oil spill that fools its sensors into thinking it is a dog/cat/child or whatever?
It's really not been thought through.
This is an issue of some debate at the moment, or at least it has been mentioned in some presentations that I have been to. If the design was simply that cars stop when a pedestrian walks in front of the car pedestrians will do it constantly and the cars will get nowhere. Somebody is going to have to make a decision on when it is ok to run someone over! It maybe that it will depend on what type of road/area you are driving on and rules for pedestrians will need to be set out but it's a pretty big decision for someone.
Unless there is more sharing (more people per car) autonomous vehicles won't necessarily lead to a reduction in traffic on the road, if vehicles are used like taxis it could lead to less vehicles and less parking but additional journeys may be required as vehicles move between the finish of one trip and start of the next trip.
In 20 years time I'm not sure heating when stuck on a motorway will be a major issue, battery technology will move on, alternatively you might need an emergency onesie!
Pollution is reduced at the point of use for electric vehicles but they still produce particulates, brake dust and tyre wear are problems and electric vehicles are generally heavier which has led to increased brake dust. However I believe vehicles are now looking at/implementing electronic braking where effectively the drive is simply put into reverse.
The issue of overall carbon footprint is interesting particularly if we move mostly to nuclear power. I was surprised to read my 9 year old's science school book recently which categorised nuclear power as renewable.
I think cars will generally be electric in 20 years time and that autonomous vehicles will be common, not sure autonomous vehicles will be the majority of vehicles though. Advancement in technology has been massive since I started work nearly 40 years ago and seems to be accelerating. Advances over the last 100 years have been pretty fantastic and with computer assistance I guess things will accelerate.
Pigmy Pony
09-11-2018, 15:40
Glad it's not just me.
Virtually every time we go out for a meal we end up sitting near one of them
And there it is - they will never all bugger off to Tuscany, they can't feel special if they're all the same. They would rather stay here and mingle with the great unwashed. Lording it over us is one of the few real joys they have.
These cars might be fine when new but what happens when they get older and are sold off as cheap runarounds for £500?. How reliable will their tech be then?. Also disposal of no longer viable electric cars, purpose built recycling sites are good but what of the thousands that will end up rotting in scrapyards, batteries leaking their toxic contents. No different to conventional cars in that respect I guess.
The issue of overall carbon footprint is interesting particularly if we move mostly to nuclear power. I was surprised to read my 9 year old's science school book recently which categorised nuclear power as renewable.
I've also noticed the increasing confusion between 'carbon neutral' and 'renewable'. I suppose it's what happens when these become generally used buzz words by people who have no real idea what they are talking about.
Can't see nuclear being the solution though, it wasn't that popular even before Chernobyl and Fukushima. Unless they come up with a cleaner, safer version. I think the intended solution is simply to convince us to be satisfied with less.
walpurgis
09-11-2018, 16:20
Can't see nuclear being the solution though
It may be if usable fusion reactors become a reality. I believe progress is being made.
I am not a huge fan of nuclear mainly because of the decommission implications (or rather my perceptions of the implications as I haven't investigated it in detail if I am honest) but recent disasters didn't derail the Hinkley Point C reactors being approved, I think mainly because the govt was twitchy about resilience of supply.
I was disappointed in 2015 when I didn't have a Mr Fusion reactor on my car allowing to run on banana skins.
Made me realise that despite being in colour Back to the Future wasn't a true story, I haven't cried so much since Bambi's mother was shot
Pigmy Pony
09-11-2018, 20:07
I was disappointed in 2015 when I didn't have a Mr Fusion reactor on my car allowing to run on banana skins.
Made me realise that despite being in colour Back to the Future wasn't a true story, I haven't cried so much since Bambi's mother was shot
SHOT? When did that happen?
SHOT? When did that happen?
Come on, your wearing her as a leotard
Pigmy Pony
10-11-2018, 07:24
Come on, your wearing her as a leotard
:lol: I couldn't afford it as it was too deer, so I bought one made from chicken feathers, much cheeper.
:lol: I couldn't afford it as it was too deer, so I bought one made from chicken feathers, much cheeper.
nice double pun
nonuffin
10-11-2018, 09:38
I am grateful that when this all electric self driving car shit becomes a reality (or not) I will be safely tucked up in a cosy little cemetary somewhere, or in an urn on the mantelpiece.
The reality is going to be that the rich will have sole use of the roads while the poor stand and watch.
I am grateful that when this all electric self driving car shit becomes a reality (or not) I will be safely tucked up in a cosy little cemetary somewhere, or in an urn on the mantelpiece.
The reality is going to be that the rich will have sole use of the roads while the poor stand and watch.
an electric urn ;)
.
The reality is going to be that the rich will have sole use of the roads while the poor stand and watch.
I also think that is the intention.
But predicting the future is hard. Scientists in the Victorian era were concerned that their calculations on the exponential increase in traffic showed that cities would eventually be overwhelmed by the sheer quantity of horse manure produced. Progress is not always linear.
nonuffin
10-11-2018, 10:11
I also think that is the intention.
But predicting the future is hard. Scientists in the Victorian era were concerned that their calculations on the exponential increase in traffic showed that cities would eventually be overwhelmed by the sheer quantity of horse manure produced. Progress is not always linear.
I base my prediction on two factors; the available amount of electricity to power all these vehicles and the availability of batteries, which even now cost a small fortune to replace in current cars.
We are going to have an electricity supply crisis LONG before these millions of cars hit the roads. All very well having over age nuclear power stations and coal/gas ones being put off line, what do we have to replace them with?
Just like 20 years ago you could buy a clapped out Ford Granada 2.9 for peanuts because it's worn out engine could only manage 8 miles to the gallon, so likewise will the poor be fed the clapped out electric cars that can only do 50 miles to a full charge?
I also think that is the intention.
But predicting the future is hard. Scientists in the Victorian era were concerned that their calculations on the exponential increase in traffic showed that cities would eventually be overwhelmed by the sheer quantity of horse manure produced. Progress is not always linear.
talkin' shite:D
We are going to have an electricity supply crisis LONG before these millions of cars hit the roads. All very well having over age nuclear power stations and coal/gas ones being put off line, what do we have to replace them with?
I've not been keeping up with current events but last time I looked the plan was windmills backed up by fields full of diesel generators. And no, I'm not joking.
walpurgis
10-11-2018, 10:35
I've not been keeping up with current events but last time I looked the plan was windmills backed up by fields full of diesel generators. And no, I'm not joking.
Oh. I thought they were planning to put the 'working class' majority on treadmills to generate electricity for the rich.
Oh. I thought they were planning to put the 'working class' majority on treadmills to generate electricity for the rich.
Sounds easier than my current job. What are the hours?
20 years from now in the described situation electrical cars will be in better position compared with today’s cars due to the more powerful batteries with much higher capacity.
They are working on solid state batteries that will be better .... very fast recharge
...would eventually be overwhelmed by the sheer quantity of horse manure produced.
A bit like this thread
[emoji1]
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Oh. I thought they were planning to put the 'working class' majority on treadmills to generate electricity for the rich.
with all the strikes it will be a stop, stop drive:D
A bit like this thread
[emoji1]
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A bit like any thread. :)
Some say Nikolai Tesla had all the answers: conduct electricity through the air, no need for batteries in your car at all then. And the weight saving would mean performance would be astonishing. Still need to generate the juice somehow though.
walpurgis
10-11-2018, 12:36
They'll probably find electric cars cause cancer. Not that we'd be told.
Pigmy Pony
10-11-2018, 13:42
They'll probably find electric cars cause cancer. Not that we'd be told.
No, they'll keep that to themselves until it's time to sell us the next big thing.
Excuse my ignorance (we once had a Physics lesson at school but I fell asleep), but surely when it comes to energy you only get out what you put in. Improvements in battery technology won't change that.
I know it may take a couple of generations to achieve, but perhaps science should be researching ways to make us smaller. This would have many benefits - houses could be smaller and so closer together, towns could be smaller too, this would reduce commuting distances, cars smaller so less thirsty, and we would need less food too. The surplus would easily feed the developing countries which now could also be much closer.
Seems to work well for ants, and they're much more stupid than (most of) us.
walpurgis
10-11-2018, 13:59
I know it may take a couple of generations to achieve, but perhaps science should be researching ways to make us smaller. This would have many benefits - houses could be smaller and so closer together, towns could be smaller too, this would reduce commuting distances, cars smaller so less thirsty, and we would need less food too. The surplus would easily feed the developing countries which now could also be much closer.
Seems to work well for ants, and they're much more stupid than (most of) us.
It's been tried. Everything (including people) in Japan is smaller and densely packed where possible and they still haven't got enough room.
Pigmy Pony
10-11-2018, 14:15
Because there's so many of them. But I hear they've pretty much stopped breeding, so things will start to improve space-wise in a couple of decades.
Excuse my ignorance (we once had a Physics lesson at school but I fell asleep), but surely when it comes to energy you only get out what you put in. Improvements in battery technology won't change that.
What you get out would depend on the efficiency of the battery, so more efficient batteries could give improvements here. Also the battery life and re-charging characteristics could be improved making them a more attractive proposition.
Yes, I do know the type and I'd rather we stopped them breeding than the chavs. I'm hoping they'll all piss off to their 'second homes' in Tuscany or wherever...
Oi - we have a second home in Tuscany;) But my "mummy" never spoke like that... I'd have gubbed her if she had:D
Electric cars? Does anyone here *really* want me to say what I think of them?:eek::no:
Marco [a dieselhead to the death, who rarely uses motorways:eyebrows:].
walpurgis
10-11-2018, 22:18
Electric cars? Does anyone here *really* want me to say what I think of them?
Yeah! Go on...........you know you want to!! :lol:
You know me, I'm too polite and reluctant to offend;)
Marco.
walpurgis
10-11-2018, 22:26
You know me, I'm too polite and reluctant to offend;)
Marco.
Sorry. I forgot. Won't happen again. ;)
Electric cars? Does anyone here *really* want me to say what I think of them?:eek::no:.
Test drive a Tesla with "ludicrous mode", and then we can talk about it.
[emoji6]
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Spent the day today at the NEC classic car show, some smart ass of a company is offering full electric conversions for your classic pride and joy. They had a converted MGB GT on the stand and I may be wrong but they could have converted an e type jag at some point. Its just wrong.
Beobloke
11-11-2018, 09:52
Marco [a dieselhead to the death, who rarely uses motorways:eyebrows:].
A “dieselhead”?!!!!
I think you’re in a grand society of one there!! :)
Haha... I knew you'd like that!:D
In my circumstances, it seems 'wrong' to call myself a petrolhead. Plus the 'd' worked with 'death'. I likes me alliteration:eyebrows:
Marco.
Spent the day today at the NEC classic car show, some smart ass of a company is offering full electric conversions for your classic pride and joy. They had a converted MGB GT on the stand and I may be wrong but they could have converted an e type jag at some point. Its just wrong.
Wrong doesn't even being to describe it, mate... Hell will freeze over first before my arse graces the seat of a fucking electric car!!! :no:
Marco.
you'll not be sitting in mine then ;)
Lol - yours isn't fully electric, is it? Besides, I *get* why folks with a disability would benefit. That's cool, so fill your boots.
What I hate are the thick, lazy-arsed able-bodied tossers who can't drive/don't like driving and hate cars, but 'suffer' them, who now think all their problems are solved by having a car that does everything for them (parking aids and shite like that), instead of bloody LEARNING how to do it for themselves!!:doh:
It's those tossers getting an 'easy way out' now that rips my knitting..... They shouldn't even have been allowed out on the road in the first place.
Marco [would ban all able-boded people from the road who don't have the necessary skills to drive a car proficiently, unaided by a computer].
Lol - your isn't fully electric, is it?
Marco.
na, just a small battery for town work, which regenerates itself as it moves etc
Exactly, so not the same thing. Plus, as I've said, in your case it's different, so I have no objection to that whatsoever, and I'm sure you're already a good driver:)
Marco.
Exactly, so not the same thing. Plus, as I've said, in your case it's different, so I have no objection to that whatsoever, and I'm sure you're already a good driver:)
Marco.
used to be good.. dont really do enough now. you dont forget but the polish is only from constant buffing :D as long as you buff in the right direction ;)
Pigmy Pony
11-11-2018, 10:41
A “dieselhead”?!!!!
I think you’re in a grand society of one there!! :)
Hi Adam, Not ashamed to say I'm in that grand society too. I really like my diesel car. It only makes about 140bhp, but as its engine is a 2.2 as opposed to the more commonplace 1.6 litre jobbies, it has a decent amount of torque, and that's a good thing.
The Americans would say "There's no substitute for cubes", although that may have been a misspelling, as it was from a time when hairy minges were still 'the thing'.
But unlike Marco, I would be up for trying an electric car - I'd like to see first hand how mental these Teslas can be.:)
Yes, they're probably 'mental' in many ways, but it won't SOUND like you're driving a performance car, and for us petrolheads (sorry, DIESELheads:eyebrows:), that's a BIG percentage of the 'mentalism'!! [And all-important FUN-FACTOR].
Marco [refuses to drive cars that hoover out the FUN].
Pigmy Pony
11-11-2018, 15:20
Much worse than electric cars that go like shit off a shovel but with no aural drama, are the souped up boy racer cars that make a right old racket without any corresponding forward progress. I always think 'are you not embarrassed to be in that thing?'
Lol, I know... All those chav fannies in their Vauxhall Novas spring to mind!:wanker::lol:
Marco.
willbewill
11-11-2018, 17:21
Much worse than electric cars that go like shit off a shovel but with no aural drama, are the souped up boy racer cars that make a right old racket without any corresponding forward progress. I always think 'are you not embarrassed to be in that thing?'
Even worse are the scooters.
Pigmy Pony
11-11-2018, 19:06
Those scooters ('peds) are probably ok when they leave the shop, the problem is when the owner does stuff to the exhaust to wring another 1 mph out of it. And I don't get why the manufacturers finish them in those garish colours - matt black with a couple of white stripes (to match the rider's tracky pants) would surely sell better.
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