WANTED: Phono Stage MM/MC

[mikeyb]

Hi,

having sold my Firebottle Vivant phono stage I'm looking for something to replace it, I use an Ortofon Kontrapunkt B MC cartridge but I would happily use an MM stage and a SUT.

Stages I have been looking at are:

Croft Riaa R/RS
Ayre P5XE
Parasound JC3/JC3+
Manley Chinook
Allnic 1200/1201
Gold Note PH10
Trilogy 906/907
Aurorasound Vida
Puresound P10/T10

Budget up to £1500 but would prefer cheaper of course. I would even take a decent pre amp that also contained an excellent phono stage, but I am open to offers of any kind.

So as you can see all types there and with not being able to listen before I buy it looks like I might have to buy something that I can easily sell on once tried out.

Musical tastes are Classic Rock, Prog Rock (Old and New), Southern Rock, Blues, Electronic, Acoustic, Female Vocals, but no Jazz :spew:

I have previously heard Whest 20, Trigon Vanguard II, NVA Phono 2, Slee Reflex M and Elevator EXP Step Up, so I won't be considering any of those.

If any manufacturers/builders want to send me demo kit, I'd be happy to try anything within budget although I do realise I'd get more for my money buying used

[Idlewithnodrive]

Obviously, I can only suggest what I have owned or heard but, out of those, I have really liked the Puresound P10, Allnic H1200, Audio Innovations P2 and my current Remton 383 MkII.

All very good stages at below your price range.

[Bigman80]

Mike, Why not give Nick Gorham a shout about his MC JFET design. This is a phonostage that has stood out to me as the benchmark of where Valve phonostages should aim at. Alternatively, i cannot recommend the VAS Phonostage highly enough. £1600, MM only so additional cost but god damn, i haven't heard anything for your budget, other than the LDA JFET phonostage that i liked as much. Superb. Audiopills of this forum can put you in touch with him.

[Ali Tait]

Second Nick’s new JFET stage, really good.

[DiveDeepDog]

I have a Longdog valve stage I may sell, it predates the current version but uses the same JFET gain stage with valve bits on the output stage?

It's MC only, loading via separate phono plugs.

I've got some Russian NOS valves I need to try before I make a final decision, I'm a valve novice and want to see how much affect rolling does :-)

[mikeyb]

Mike, Why not give Nick Gorham a shout about his MC JFET design. This is a phonostage that has stood out to me as the benchmark of where Valve phonostages should aim at. Alternatively, i cannot recommend the VAS Phonostage highly enough. £1600, MM only so additional cost but god damn, i haven't heard anything for your budget, other than the LDA JFET phonostage that i liked as much. Superb. Audiopills of this forum can put you in touch with him.Saw that one, but I'd rather try and buy used to get more for my money, not keen on paying full retail unless I have to [emoji6]

[mikeyb]

Second Nick’s new JFET stage, really good.[emoji4]

[mikeyb]

I have a Longdog valve stage I may sell, it predates the current version but uses the same JFET gain stage with valve bits on the output stage?

It's MC only, loading via separate phono plugs.

I've got some Russian NOS valves I need to try before I make a final decision, I'm a valve novice and want to see how much affect rolling does :-)Ok cool, I've heard one of Nick's MC stages in the past, really liked it but it didn't at the time beat my Vivant, system has changed considerably since then so it would be interesting to hear it again.

I'll let and hunt out info on your one.

Give me a shout once you've rolled [emoji6]

[Bigman80]

Saw that one, but I'd rather try and buy used to get more for my money, not keen on paying full retail unless I have to [emoji6]Understandable but there ain't much out there thats going to out do the LDA stuff.

That VAS phonostage is one that could. I would love an A/B comparison with those two.

Why not go for something completely mental, like that one with different RIAA choices and Decca records specific curve.

I'll try and find a link.

[DiveDeepDog]

All the info I found. Nick had it for a look over before I got it as I'm unfamiliar with valves.

http://www.longdogaudio.com/moving-coil-direct-input-valve-phono-stage/

[Bigman80]

The 'Tavish'

www.stereophile.com/content/listening

The 'Sentec'

https://www.stereophile.com/content/sentec-eq11-phono-preamplifier

[mikeyb]

The 'Tavish'

www.stereophile.com/content/listening

The 'Sentec'

https://www.stereophile.com/content/sentec-eq11-phono-preamplifierThat looks interesting [emoji6]

[Bigman80]

That looks interesting [emoji6]If you win the lotto, maybe a Manley Steelhead phono preamp would do [emoji6]

[mikeyb]

If you win the lotto, maybe a Manley Steelhead phono preamp would do [emoji6][emoji23] I wish

[Bigman80]

[emoji23] I wish[emoji1787][emoji1787]

[mikeyb]

Anything else on offer?

[mikeyb]

Paradise phono stage is in your budget, but it's MC only , ask Simon (SQ) I think he managed to source another set of boardsBeen on my radar too I must admit, I think they might be nearer £1800 now but I will check.

I've a demo of the Slee Accession coming this week, but.... My bloody power amp has taken a sickie [emoji3525] under warranty though [emoji16]

[Bigman80]

Paradise phono stage is in your budget, but it's MC only , ask Simon (SQ) I think he managed to source another set of boardsA good call but so rare to find and usually, there is a compatible issue with some cartridges if they were set up specifically for a different cartridge output. A lot of them were tailor made by people for their system. That's what they say anyway.

[mikeyb]

A good call but so rare to find and usually, there is a compatible issue with some cartridges if they were set up specifically for a different cartridge output. A lot of them were tailor made by people for their system. That's what they say anyway.Aye that's what put me off the last time I asked about one because at that time I hadn't settled on a permanent cartridge, being tied to one specific cart isn't great for me as I'm still playing around with different ones, I think I've owned 6 or 7 different ones in the last 2 years [emoji23]

[mikeyb]

I've heard good things about Accession , need to borrow one from GS forum , good callThat's where mine is coming from, also waiting on a loan of their Majestic DAC/Pre [emoji6]

[Bigman80]

Aye that's what put me off the last time I asked about one because at that time I hadn't settled in a permanent cartridge, being tied to one specific cart isn't great for me as I'm still playing around with different ones, I think I've owned 6 or 7 different ones in the last 2 years [emoji23]Exactly.

I was interested in building one and getting some boards made but got put off the idea by the suggestion it would be stealing someone else's work, even though it was not for profit and in the circuit is in the public domain.

I also question whether it really is *THAT* good because when it hasn't anhialated the competition at a bakeoff, there is usually an excuse around for the performance.

I've not heard one and those who own the , rave about them. I am only opining from what I've read online.

[Bigman80]

You can change loading quite easily , I have DIL sockets to plug resistor directly to the board so easily changeable . More trouble with gain setting but possible if you change couple resistors and capacitors , I also have DIL sockets in RIAA position to play with .That's certainly encouraging to hear but how many were built that way?

[Bigman80]

I'm certain Simon SQ can accommodate every need ,
I built it myself and thought it would be good to have more cart options without unnecessary soldering and de-soldering ,Oh no doubt about Si's ability, just saying it may not arrive 'setup' for Mikes Kontrapunkt b

[Bigman80]

Not sure what difficulty be with KB “setup” it’s normal 0.47 mV/sec output and loading from 50 ohm upwards , both easily achievable with Paradise ,with little RIAA alteration Paradise has perfectly flat frequency response as far as my measurements goes, anyway good luck with the search MikeNo, neither am I, but that was the reason proffered for the lack of dominance from the paradise at a recent bakeoff in Huddersfield.

Like I say, I've not heard one but the remarks (read excuses) about 'matching' or 'setup' have put people off trying one.

I'd like to build one so may just get some boards made for myself. It the only way to find out for sure I suppose.

[mikeyb]

Not sure what difficulty be with KB “setup” it’s normal 0.47 mV/sec output and loading from 50 ohm upwards , both easily achievable with Paradise ,with little RIAA alteration Paradise has perfectly flat frequency response as far as my measurements goes, anyway good luck with the search MikeThanks for the info, I'm not convinced the Paradise is for me, and spending £1800 on something I can't hear first is a bit of stumbling block, ok I know that maybe sounds stupid considering I won't have heard any of the others in my list before buying, but there's very little info out there about the Paradise, whereas a lot on my list are tried and tested with plenty info/reviews/thoughts on them.

[take5]

Mike, I still have my Audio Innovations P2 for sale.

It has been heavily modded by DEFINITIVE AUDIO, and sounds fantastic.

Price is £700, and I don’t think you are going to find anything close to it for that money. In fact it was better than many other more expensive phones, at various WAM bake offs.

I’m happy to bring it to you next time I’m up, and you can try it in your system.

[Bigman80]

Thanks for the info, I'm not convinced the Paradise is for me, and spending £1800 on something I can't hear first is a bit of stumbling block, ok I know that maybe sounds stupid considering I won't have heard any of the others in my list before buying, but there's very little info out there about the Paradise, whereas a lot on my list are tried and tested with plenty info/reviews/thoughts on them.It's different if it's being built by you, the adventure becomes part of the enjoyment and then the results are largely favourable because of your efforts. It is easy to be enamoured by the effort it took rather than the end products actual ability. I know this first hand from my Bigbottle phonostage project. Even though that really has turned out better than I could've hoped. Also because Firebottle is largely to thank for that.

My worry is that the Paradise phonostage is largely unknown in terms of review and user accounts. Based on the huge group buy that went on, I'd have thought there would be more.

That said, it still intrigues me enough to pursue the availability of PCBs.

[Mickyricky]

Simon built a lot of the Paradise phono stages ,they very rarely come onto the market and hold their value well .
people who own them must be satisfied! that must be a review in its self.. I know I have one�� ,I think someone will be putting up a review soon ��

[mikeyb]

Mike, I still have my Audio Innovations P2 for sale.

It has been heavily modded by DEFINITIVE AUDIO, and sounds fantastic.

Price is £700, and I don’t think you are going to find anything close to it for that money. In fact it was better than many other more expensive phones, at various WAM bake offs.

I’m happy to bring it to you next time I’m up, and you can try it in your system.Thanks for the reminder but it's far too big for my setup, unless I can move some items around.

I'll keep it in mind if nothing else comes up that's on my list.

Mind you this search is temporarily on hold as my power amp has thrown a wobbly and needs to go back to the shop under warranty for a check up. [emoji20]

[ianlenco]

Best phono stage I've ever owned is the Audio Detail one from Malvern Audio Research. Contains Nuvistor valves. Mark is a great guy to deal with and can tweak the contents to your requirements. Those who have heard mine have been very impressed.

http://www.malvernaudioresearch.co.uk/audio-detail.html

[mikeyb]

I've managed to arrange a home a demo of a Gold Note PH10 when my power amp gets back, so I'm looking forward to hearing that one. My local HiFi shop stocks them which is handy [emoji4]

[mikeyb]

If I'm going to buy new I think I'm going to try the Gold Note PH10 as I can buy it locally at a decent price and they'll sort me out with a home demo first to decide.

Used, I think I'd like the Chinook to try [emoji6]

[Bigman80]

Simon built a lot of the Paradise phono stages ,they very rarely come onto the market and hold their value well .
people who own them must be satisfied! that must be a review in its self.. I know I have one�� ,I think someone will be putting up a review soon ��Again, no doubt about Simon's abilities!! He his a very knowledgeable guy and his build thread is testament to that.

I am simply saying that when a paradise hasn't dominated a bakeoff, the reason floated is that it wasn't 'setup' for the cartridge.

That troubles me. That's all. I'd prefer someone to just say, "the paradise was outdone" rather than alluding to some sort of mythical miss match.

When we did the bakeoff at Penkridge, I asked every Paradise owner I could find in a reasonable radius to bring it. They all refused/declined. One even said it was because "the cartridge isn't a good match"

The cartridge was a Kontrapunkt b, like Mike's.

That and the various other comments elsewhere make me cautious about it.

[Mickyricky]

My Paradise is setup to match my system of 301 / Morch DP6 / Koetsu Rosewood Signature,it’s made in heaven...I have taken the whole system to a few Bake-Offs and the Hifi buffs were well impressed,in fact it started 4 of them on the search for a Paradise (3 succeeded)..
Recently I took the Paradise only to a gathering and hooked it up to a TT with a lighter cartridge,it sounded awful,in fact I wish I hadn’t of taken it..
Because of this I can well understand why other owners are reluctant to hook up to an incorrect cartridge.it won’t do the phono stage justice.
As I quoted in an earlier post I do think that a review may be imminent..

[Bigman80]

My Paradise is setup to match my system of 301 / Morch DP6 / Koetsu Rosewood Signature,it’s made in heaven...I have taken the whole system to a few Bake-Offs and the Hifi buffs were well impressed,in fact it started 4 of them on the search for a Paradise (3 succeeded)..
Recently I took the Paradise only to a gathering and hooked it up to a TT with a lighter cartridge,it sounded awful,in fact I wish I hadn’t of taken it..
Because of this I can well understand why other owners are reluctant to hook up to an incorrect cartridge.it won’t do the phono stage justice.
As I quoted in an earlier post I do think that a review may be imminent..I'll look forward to reading the review but your words here have proved to me that the paradise isn't worth pursuing. I like to try different cartridges and having a unit that can only perform with one, isn't for me.

I am sure you love yours as do the other owners. Enjoy.

[JohnG]

I have heard a Paradise while at a Bake Off at the Yorkshire HiFi Clubs Bake Off.
For me it is the most memorable phonostage I recall from this day.
For me, it definitely deserved it place as 2nd to Top in the line up.
It is not the one I would most like to own, as its strengths in my mind, are more than I require to relax back and enjoy a listening experience. It is a Phon that I would say is a reference to other models, some would embrace it, other would require it to be slightly different, leaning to warmer, dare I say it. Either way, in the way that I heard it, it would be great to have access to one, just to compare how things are progressing along in a system, as it has real honesty in what it delivers.
I heard the owner in discussion about the build method and component selection process, and the amount of discards required to acquire the correct values to produce a Paradise.
If that was Simon doing the discussing, then I would trust his knowledge on whats is best for the build.

[sq225917]

I suggest anyone interested in how it sounded at brooksys demo day ask someone who attended. It's not for me to say how I thought it sounded.

Cart loading is no issue, never has been, it'll work with any mc cart loading needs. If you like hairshirt we can solder loading direct to the pcb, if you prefer a bit of flexibility we can use the sockets for swappable loading. The last half dozen have been made this way.

I do have boards to build new units for customers.

[sq225917]

Mickyricky, if you'd like the rca loading plugin mod just get your unit's up to me. I'll do it for cost of parts and p&p.

Mikey, should you be interested I'm sure we could get one in front of you for a demo

[sq225917]

I don't think it's a bowl full.

[Bigman80]

I suggest anyone interested in how it sounded at brooksys demo day ask someone who attended. It's not for me to say how I thought it sounded.

Cart loading is no issue, never has been, it'll work with any mc cart loading needs. If you like hairshirt we can solder loading direct to the pcb, if you prefer a bit of flexibility we can use the sockets for swappable loading. The last half dozen have been made this way.

I do have boards to build new units for customers.John was there, I take his opinion as fact.

He's good at describing what he hears and having met him, I can see he's very enthusiastic about the hobby.

Simon, can you explain why the explainantion of matching the Paradise to cartridges has been proffered for lack of performance, if it is the case that the Paradise is indeed, universal?

Surely a universally phonostage should have no issues with cartridges except for those with exceptional needs.

[JohnG]

Not to do the Paradise any discredit in any way, as I said it deserved the position of 2nd from top in the auditions.
There was a Modwright PSE 9.0 auditioned before the Paradise, this got my attention for all the reasons, I get excited about a good valve stage. In relation to it as used purchase value to performance, it was a exceptional.
I have scoured the net since, and one is at present available in the states with a Modwright upgraded Power Supply at $2000. These were in their day $4000 Phon's and in my view, worthy of this price, as for certain tastes they really do give their soul.
As Nick Gorman claimed after the Paradise was auditioned, " the Modwright is the Antithesis of the Paradise",
or vice versa, I can't recall that bit. I did agree with the point of view.
I would be negotiating on this now, if I were not being so £'note tied up in a ongoing vinyl venture, I'm hoping to have functioning for the end of years holidays.
Anyway the Modwright is resident in Scotland, so maybe the device can get a audition, as a fact finding exercise.

[mikeyb]

I know I said that my search was on hold until my power amp came back from repair.

However........ Oops!

Meet my Trilogy 907 [emoji4]

This is just a temporary setup until my amp returns, I'm just using my old Rotel R921 integrated as a power amp just now.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181124/1db7eb9165cc57a0a3d82ab8eb2a69b7.jpg

[Bigman80]

I know I said that my search was on hold until my power amp came back from repair.

However........ Oops!

Meet my Trilogy 907 [emoji4]

This is just a temporary setup until my amp returns, I'm just using my old Rotel R921 integrated as a power amp just now.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181124/1db7eb9165cc57a0a3d82ab8eb2a69b7.jpgHeard one of those. It was decent.

[DiveDeepDog]

My old 907? I’ll hear one again next week, taking the Longdog for a 2 header, should be fun:-)

[mikeyb]

My old 907? I’ll hear one again next week, taking the Longdog for a 2 header, should be fun:-)Yip, it's your one [emoji6]

Time will tell if it's a keeper [emoji23]

I'll need to wait on my power amp returning before deciding first though [emoji50]

[DiveDeepDog]

No question the 907’s good, I moved on a Diablo I’d had for years. I did find it a bit too excited at times, think original Naim, exciting and fab.. for an hour, of course this is my room with Garrard and Avondale amp.

I’ve heard Ian’s with Orb and Pass amps and it’s Devine, all day listen ��

[DiveDeepDog]

Still got Paradise, the Longdog is very good,* a similar tone /balance that I like, but it lacks the little stuff, overdubs aren’t so obvious, the fella at the back with a triangle is missing so I suspect it’ll be a while till Paradise goes anywhere


*First valves I’ve ever had, having fun rolling tubes.

[KONDO]

Obviously, I can only suggest what I have owned or heard but, out of those, I have really liked the Puresound P10, Allnic H1200, Audio Innovations P2 and my current Remton 383 MkII.

All very good stages at below your price range.

Hi, is it the £1600 one you have as i see you dont mention sut, i had on loan the£600 model which i thought was good with rothwell sut, now have consonance 40 and lux mt 88, yours charlie.