PC Music System - In The Donkey Stables

[Sand Dancin Donkey Walker]

Hi Guys

There have a couple of changes at the Donkey Stables recently.

The first being I have sold my Almarro 50125 Power Amp and bought an Usher R1.5.
The Almarro is a great amp plenty of power and great Mid and Top end sound, just to my taste. The down side would be the grip it has on the bass end. Initially while driving my Usher's I was quite happy with it all, but recently felt the Ushers needed more control over the bottom end.
So the Usher 1.5 arrived. I have heard these before on a number of occasions and have been impressed. By a sheer coincidence a I happened upon one and decided to go for it.

Having had it in my system for while now here are my thoughts.
The power and control it now has over the bass is seriously impressive. It has it all, Depth, Speed, Agility, everything I hoped for. The Mids and Top end are again open and detailed as I like them to be, but with a naturalness that I wasn't expecting from a Solid State amp. I feel that if you can get the Bass end right then the Mid and top end also gel and breath together better, rather than being muddied by an overpowering or slack bass It doesn't have the gorgeous valve sound of the Almarro, but for the trade off bass control I can very easy live with it, in fact every time I play music I fall in love more and more. You don't often get everything you wish for and life is generally a compromise in some shape or form, but I am very happy Donkey with the current sound. It sort of creeps up on you, it sits there just doing its job in an excellent and unassuming way.

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll246/HyCoignitor/Audio%20Art%20of%20Sound/UsherR15-3.jpg

The second change is, having recently changed my PC innards, I found myself thinking about a PC to play music through my main music system. So built the following, Mart (of this forum) did for me, cheers mate, much appreciated.

· Intel Q8200 Core 2 Quad Processor
· 4Gig DDR2 800 Ram
· Asus P5Q SE2 Motherboard with dedicated digital coaxial o/p
· Nvidia Geforce 210 graphics card
· 550W Thermaltake PSU
· 1.5 Terra bite and a 1 Terra bite HD's
· Silverstone LCS10 custom HTPC case

I am using the Digital O/P to connect to my Audio Logic DAC. I decided that, though I don't think I will be using it as my main source of music (subject to change), I would stick with using WMP.

I wasn't too sure what to expect, as I have not really heard too many PC based systems. With the exception of a rather nice Big Rig Linn system, which may have pushed me towards this choice.
On first listen I have had my eyes opened, very pleased with the initial results. Will need to sit with it a bit longer, and then switch back to the transport to evaluate my thought and feeling. But feel it is an excellent source to use. A quick initial reflection on the sound is though everything is all there it slightly lacks the Size and Scale of sound the CEC transport produces.

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll246/HyCoignitor/Audio%20Art%20of%20Sound/MPC-6.jpg

Will report back later with my finding. Have attached some photo's of the Amp and PC.
I did go a touch mad and bought a decent looking case for it, and a mini keyboard.

Andy - SDDW

[The Grand Wazoo]

Hi Andy - it looks great &, best of all, it sounds good to you as well. Fundamental changes like that can so easily push things the wrong way.
Cheers

[tannoydmt]

I would recommend that you change from using the windows player to the the free Foobar and if you are using vista or windows 7 use the wasapi plugin, also you could consider a Lynx or RME soundcard both of which I use which will give a better digital signal.

[John]

Hi Andy
Great to hear the changes has worked for you and most of all you are enjoying the music even more
It is possible to have you cake with icing and eat it!!

[Sand Dancin Donkey Walker]

Hi Guys

Cheers for your comments. I am very much enjoying my music of late.
I think as a result of a number of things, the main one is I am finally settling in to my job. I did go through a jittery period when I was not happy there.

The Usher amp just amazes me. It really is giving me a sound I enjoy, and want to listen to more and more. As importantly I am buying more music too.

I am pleased with the PC music system. I love the look of the case, it blends in with the other gear and looks a purposeful piece of kit.

Listening last night I am enjoying it immensely. I never realised I cold get such an enjoyable sound from a PC.

Just goes to prove, we all have something to learn.
The down side is rippping my music to the PC. There is lots of it to do.
As a thought I will have to look in to how I copy my vinyl to the PC too. Now that should be interesting.

Will have a look at the foobar player as I am using Windows 7

Cheers guys will let you know how I get along when I have settled with it a bit more

Andy - SDDW

[Stratmangler]

Hi Andy

What ripping tool are you using ?
You're using Windows, so I'd recommend EAC or dbPoweramp - they both have facility to rip in secure mode, and both compare results to online databases.

What format are you ripping to ?
Something lossless I hope.

[HighFidelityGuy]

Nice setup Andy!
I noticed those Usher amps while I was browsing the web the other day and thought how nice they looked and that they seemed like good value.

On the subject of your PC, I'd also recommend that you invest in a decent discrete soundcard if your thinking of using it as a source. The Lynx and RME cards are probably the best available but they're not cheap (£400-800). The Asus Xonar cards are meant to be very good but a fraction of the price, so they're worth looking at. Either way an external DAC is a must. Also, seen as you have Win7, I hope you're going to take advantage of Media Center for recording TV etc. ;) It really is a fantastic tool that I couldn't live without. :cool:

[Stratmangler]

On the subject of your PC, I'd also recommend that you invest in a decent discrete soundcard if your thinking of using it as a source. The Lynx and RME cards are probably the best available but they're not cheap (£400-800). The Asus Xonar cards are meant to be very good but a fraction of the price, so they're worth looking at. Either way an external DAC is a must.

I kept off mentioning Squeezebox because of additional cost, but if you're factoring in a decent PC soundcard then the Squeezebox Touch looks to be a steal.
Keep the PC in another room and stream music to the Touch, which in turn is connected to your DAC. It'll stream 24/96 files natively.

[Ali Tait]

Seconded.It's an excellent piece of kit.

[Sand Dancin Donkey Walker]

Hi Chris, Dave

Thanks for your comments, appreciated.
I havn't ripped too many CD's at the moment, just sort of getting the feel for it all.

I am using WMA Lossless. I am ripping the CD's when they load into WMP and setup the system to save them in to a music file. Which I will copy to the 2nd HD when I remember as a backup.

The Asus board was selected as it had a Digital Coaxial O/P which I can use to I/P to my Audio Logic DAC.
We didn't go down the Sound card route as it seems to introduce more processing, the thought was to keep it simple. Much like myself really.

As for the Usher amp Dave, I have in the recent past owned a Krell FPB200, and believe me there is very little difference between the 2 amps. When you take in to account the cost difference the Usher is an absolute bargain. A very underrated product that would pass a lot of people by. I'm certainly pleased.

Andy - SDDW

[roob]

You are not going to realise the full potential of your PC system ripping your CD's to WMA.
As other posters have mentioned use EAC or dbpower amp to rip to FLAC format and use Foobar/Wasapi for playback.I would also recommend the HiFace usb to coax convertor(£100) to connect PC to Dac.

[Sand Dancin Donkey Walker]

Hi Guys

Thought I had better follow this thread up, and post my findings so far and my feelings on the future of my PC based music system.

First of all, have been trying the EAC and this will now be my choice to use. I have been ripping quite a bit of music to the HD, I also have a 2nd HD to use as a backup copy of the main storage - not copied what I have ripped so far yet - silly me.

Have sat quite a bit this week and really enjoyed the music from the PC. I do like the quick and easy access to all my collection without needing to get up and change a CD.

I am still surprised and pleased at the result, didn't really know what to expect but enjoying it immensely so far.

The sound is so close to the results from my CEC transport that it almost makes the CEC redundant. I know what a difference a good transport can make, but these results show that there is always something to learn and there is another way to enjoy music.

Having had a couple of visitors this week they have all noted there is very little difference between the 2 sources, they both play through my Audio Logic DAC.

When settling down for a very critical listen, I think the CEC just has the edge, in better imaging and a sense of scale with the music. There is no loss of any of the frequency range and the overall sound is excellent.

So how will I be using the PC system from now on.
Well for general listening and while I am plodding about doing other things about the house, the PC system will be used.
Now whether it is my age or what, I do like the tactile feel of CD (vinyl is again a whole lot better) and that you have a case and album cover and notes to look at and read. So when I fancy a more tentative listen the CEC will be put to use.

There is room for both PC and transport for playing CD's at the Donkey Stables and both have their uses and limitations.

What it all boils down to is, I am still enjoying my music with a happy smile on my face :).
The down side being the initial time needed to rip my entire CD collection, I'll get here - but it could be some time yet.

Andy - SDDW

[Stratmangler]

Glad to hear that you're getting on with the PC as source Andy.
What format are you ripping to with EAC ?
Did you use the Wizard to set up your program options ?
Did you set up Accurate Rip ?
Which media player are you using for playback ?

Sorry for all the questions, but it's all important.

[Ali Tait]

What's wizard and what's accurate rip?

[Stratmangler]

What's wizard and what's accurate rip?

The setup Wizard helps you to set the program for optimal results.

Accurate rip is a process where the program does multiple reads of the CD. Basically the data is read twice and compared - if it's identical on the two reads then it passes. If it doesn't get an identical read then it does a third pass and compares that to the first and second pass, and if two match then it'll pass that data on as good. It will do quite a few passes before it gives up and flags up an error code.
The is also an online database of Accurate Rip results for comparison. The higher the number on ant given track, the more matching results there are on the database.

[Themis]

What's wizard and what's accurate rip?
http://www.accuraterip.com/

[Ali Tait]

Does EAC use this anyway? Or do you need to use it if you are using EAC?

[Stratmangler]

You need to tell EAC to rip accurately during setup.

[Ali Tait]

Ah thanks,think I did that.

[SteveW]

Hi Guys

There have a couple of changes at the Donkey Stables recently.

The first being I have sold my Almarro 50125 Power Amp and bought an Usher R1.5.
The Almarro is a great amp plenty of power and great Mid and Top end sound, just to my taste. The down side would be the grip it has on the bass end. Initially while driving my Usher's I was quite happy with it all, but recently felt the Ushers needed more control over the bottom end.
So the Usher 1.5 arrived. I have heard these before on a number of occasions and have been impressed. By a sheer coincidence a I happened upon one and decided to go for it.

Having had it in my system for while now here are my thoughts.
The power and control it now has over the bass is seriously impressive. It has it all, Depth, Speed, Agility, everything I hoped for. The Mids and Top end are again open and detailed as I like them to be, but with a naturalness that I wasn't expecting from a Solid State amp. I feel that if you can get the Bass end right then the Mid and top end also gel and breath together better, rather than being muddied by an overpowering or slack bass It doesn't have the gorgeous valve sound of the Almarro, but for the trade off bass control I can very easy live with it, in fact every time I play music I fall in love more and more. You don't often get everything you wish for and life is generally a compromise in some shape or form, but I am very happy Donkey with the current sound. It sort of creeps up on you, it sits there just doing its job in an excellent and unassuming way.

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll246/HyCoignitor/Audio%20Art%20of%20Sound/UsherR15-3.jpg

The second change is, having recently changed my PC innards, I found myself thinking about a PC to play music through my main music system. So built the following, Mart (of this forum) did for me, cheers mate, much appreciated.

· Intel Q8200 Core 2 Quad Processor
· 4Gig DDR2 800 Ram
· Asus P5Q SE2 Motherboard with dedicated digital coaxial o/p
· Nvidia Geforce 210 graphics card
· 550W Thermaltake PSU
· 1.5 Terra bite and a 1 Terra bite HD's
· Silverstone LCS10 custom HTPC case

I am using the Digital O/P to connect to my Audio Logic DAC. I decided that, though I don't think I will be using it as my main source of music (subject to change), I would stick with using WMP.

I wasn't too sure what to expect, as I have not really heard too many PC based systems. With the exception of a rather nice Big Rig Linn system, which may have pushed me towards this choice.
On first listen I have had my eyes opened, very pleased with the initial results. Will need to sit with it a bit longer, and then switch back to the transport to evaluate my thought and feeling. But feel it is an excellent source to use. A quick initial reflection on the sound is though everything is all there it slightly lacks the Size and Scale of sound the CEC transport produces.

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll246/HyCoignitor/Audio%20Art%20of%20Sound/MPC-6.jpg

Will report back later with my finding. Have attached some photo's of the Amp and PC.
I did go a touch mad and bought a decent looking case for it, and a mini keyboard.

Andy - SDDW

I am very very interested in your choice of kit. It seems to match my requirements perfectly...


But just between you n me.

Whats the bicycle pump for?

[Stratmangler]

I am very very interested in your choice of kit. It seems to match my requirements perfectly...


But just between you n me.

Whats the bicycle pump for?

It's for blowing up inflatable Ingrid, for those occasional times when nothing you play on the system quite hits the spot:eyebrows:

[Stratmangler]

In truth I suspect that there's a Townsend Seismic Sink or the like lurking around the system.;)

[Sand Dancin Donkey Walker]

Hi Guy's

Will try and answer a few of your questions.

I will be using FLAC. Have tried a few of the others, but this seem to get the vote.

The PC was setup for me, so not sure of the wizard was used or not. I kept out of the way.

I will be trying Foobar soon, after recommendations here and from a mate who knows and I trust about these things. I am just an end user and not totally in to the PC Audio stuff just yet.

Accurate Rip hasn't been setup, but it looks like I should get it sorted, after doing a bit of research on it.

Steve, cheers for your comments. It's good to know someone else has similar tastes.
As for the Bike pump, well she's called Big Bertha.
Of course Chris is right, I have a couple of Townsend Seismic Sinks in use. I do rate these devices highly, never had a poor result. An odd indifferent one but never a bad one.
You just need to set them up right and check the bounce etc on a regular basis.

Hope this reply helps, and cheers for you comments guys

Andy - SDDW

[Vincent Kars]

Ripping
Today both standard media players as iTunes or WMP can do the ripping safely if you put them in secure mode. http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/SW/WMP/ErrorCorrection.htm

However in case of WMP you can rip to WMAL (Lossless) or WAV but tagging support of WAV is almost nonexistent. This leaves WMAL as the only lossless format.
Nothing wrong with WMAL, it is a slightly better FLAC than FLAC (better compression) but support is a bit limited.
FLAC is not supported by WMP but you can get it to work
http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/SW/WMP/FileFormat.htm
Regardless of the format chosen, as long as it is lossless you can always convert it to any other lossless format without loss as indeed lossless=lossless

However if you want to be bullet proof, a ripper supporting accuraterip has an asset.
This assumes that your CD’s are already ripped by others and in the accuraterip database.
Both EAC and dbPoweramp have an excellent reputation.
I do think the sentiment at the moment is to favor dbPoweramp as being faster and easier to configure. It is also a excellent converter.

Tagging
Beside the format to rip to, tagging is another issue.
If your music is pop, you don’t have one as a database like FreeDB will do the job.
In case of a more esoteric taste, you might hit some problems.
WMP is pretty good in tagging classical music (AMG), dbPoweramp uses a couple of databases including AMG.

Media players
Foobar is an excellent piece of freeware but I don’t like the interface.
http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/SW/Players/Foobar.htm
I prefer J River Media Center, almost as configurable as Foobar but a superior GUI.
In my opinion both players don’t differ much in sound quality but the audio drivers do.
I recommend to use a media player supporting more than DS (Direct sound, Windows default) only.
WASAPI is a logical choice on Win7
KS (Kernel Streaming) on XP
ASIO is an option too if your hardware supports it.
J River supports them all, I believe Foobar too.
http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/SW/Players/MC14/MC14_audio.htm

[Simon P]

Ripping

Media players
Foobar is an excellent piece of freeware but I don’t like the interface.
http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/SW/Players/Foobar.htm
I prefer J River Media Center, almost as configurable as Foobar but a superior GUI.
In my opinion both players don’t differ much in sound quality but the audio drivers do.
/MC14/MC14_audio.htm[/url]

I have to agree about JRiver Media Player - I've been using it for just over a year, and I'm a big fan of it. I have the PC's DVI out plumbed into my telly, so I find JRiver in Theatre Mode with a cheap remote is an ideal way to drive it from the sofa. There's a 30 day free demo if anyone fancies giving it a try.

Possibly something to consider as a future upgrade option for the PC: I very recently got hold of an M2Tech HiFace USB device from Purite Audio to use as the coaxial out to my DAC 64, and I'm very happy with it. I was using the optical out on a Juli@ before, but I had an intermittent problem whereby the DAC would occasionally get upset with it's output and play loud screaming digital noise. It was taking the fun out of listening a bit ;) Very pleased with this device, which is designed to have a very stable clock in order to reduce jitter. I'm sure it's talked about in other threads here on AOS.

Simon

BTW: I'm not associated with JRiver / Purite in any way, just very impressed with them both for the money.