View Full Version : Itch that won't go away
paulf-2007
30-10-2018, 22:30
For several years I have been resisting the temptation to try Fal flat S C60 drivers from Japan. I've never had the opportunity to hear them but have heard good things about them from a couple of people in USA.
Every now and then I look on eBay and there they are trying to tempt me. If anyone has heard them I would be interested to know your thoughts.
One thing that's held me back is in the blurb from Fal, they say that most speakers have a 60 deg dispersion and Fal have more than 120 deg, that makes me think that reflections could be much more of a problem than conventional drivers. With my small room that could be a nightmare. Perhaps you good people could spare some pearls of wisdom.
walpurgis
30-10-2018, 22:35
Not heard of those. Got a photo?
paulf-2007
31-10-2018, 07:48
Not heard of those. Got a photo?
Sorry Geoff can't do photos, if you could do a search in images and post one that would be good
paulf-2007
31-10-2018, 07:50
They sell on eBay
walpurgis
31-10-2018, 08:19
http://i64.tinypic.com/2s990ee.jpg
https://www.exclusive-audio.jp/shop/products/detail.php?product_id=340
They look interesting. Can't find any technical spec. They claim 40Hz to 14Khz but nothing to indicate levels or how bad break up is at the top end. And the prices are all in 'foreign'.
Firebottle
31-10-2018, 08:50
Price equates to 2,322.44 Pound sterling.
:eek:
walpurgis
31-10-2018, 09:13
Price equates to 2,322.44 Pound sterling.
:eek:
Yes, it does seem pretty expensive. Flat diaphragm speakers are not a new idea. I have a pair of 'bending wave' full range drivers that look very similar.
paulf-2007
31-10-2018, 11:15
A pair of C60 drivers are £1600, quite an expensive punt. I also wonder about longevity of the materials, solar damage etc.
paulf-2007
31-10-2018, 11:17
Yes, it does seem pretty expensive. Flat diaphragm speakers are not a new idea. I have a pair of 'bending wave' full range drivers that look very similar.
Sony made something similar but not of the quality of these that didn't catch on.
The manufacturers description seems to suggest a Nomex laminate is used which is what Sony (and others) used for their flat diaphragm speakers back in the early eighties. It also looks a bit as though the voice coil may be laid out flat, as it is in Maneplanar speakers. The cost is exorbitant for what they are, but there are a number of ultra bespoke Japanese manufacturers priced in this way.
paulf-2007
31-10-2018, 11:18
Price equates to 2,322.44 Pound sterling.
:eek:
That's for a complete pair of speakers.
paulf-2007
31-10-2018, 11:57
https://www.exclusive-audio.jp/shop/products/detail.php?product_id=340
They look interesting. Can't find any technical spec. They claim 40Hz to 14Khz but nothing to indicate levels or how bad break up is at the top end. And the prices are all in 'foreign'.
There are graphs on the eBay ad.
paulf-2007
31-10-2018, 12:00
The manufacturers description seems to suggest a Nomex laminate is used which is what Sony (and others) used for their flay diaphragm speakers back in the early eighties. It also looks a bit as tough the voicoil may be laid out flat, as it is in Maneplanar speakers. The cost is exorbitant for what they are, but there are a number of ultra bespoke Japanese manufacturers priced in this way.
Like feastrex, they don't publish specs and are eye wateringly expensive and at the end of the day are single driver, and as with all speakers have their limitations. I've heard voxativ and would say they are the best single driver speaker I've heard. Yes I believe the voice coil is flat.
Hmm.., yes, I’ve also heard a pair of Voxative equipped speakers. As you say, fearsomely expensive but good - they still seemed to suffer the usual issues associated with single drivers though.
paulf-2007
31-10-2018, 18:42
Hmm.., yes, I’ve also heard a pair of Voxative equipped speakers. As you say, fearsomely expensive but good - they still seemed to suffer the usual issues associated with single drivers though.
Were they voxativs own Mark.
I heard John Howes quarter wave with voxativ drivers, a bit shouty, voxativ ampeggio, much better and voxativ ampeggio due with voxativ field coil drivers, pretty much faultless, but at about £80,000 they should be. I compared them to my front loaded tractrix horns with BMS compression drivers, raal ribbon tweeters and 15" bass drivers.
Sony made something similar but not of the quality of these that didn't catch on.
So did KEF , I had a pair of ADC 18 and they went to 20hz. but the top end is very rolled off with out a supplemental tweeter.
The KEF B1814 driver and the T15 MK2 tweeter. In some huge cabnets the B1814 could go low but rolled off around 1 khz. it looks just like your driver and the Sony's.
Our moderator Walburgis has posted pictures of the big KEF drivers I am talking about.
paulf-2007
04-11-2018, 09:12
Fal sell complete speakers with amt hiel tweeters or without. I have some nice aurum cantus G2 ribbons I could use with them. As I already said I'm a bit concerned about the 120 deg dispersion and wonder if that would be a problem in a small room.
Thing about a small room is that the reflected sound is going to reach your ears at almost the same time as the direct sound so it's not a problem. It's only when there is a significant time delay between the direct sound reaching your ears and the reflected sound reaching your ears that you'll get problems with the soundstage and imaging.
worth reading up on the precedence effect. explains a lot
paulf-2007
04-11-2018, 12:29
Thing about a small room is that the reflected sound is going to reach your ears at almost the same time as the direct sound so it's not a problem. It's only when there is a significant time delay between the direct sound reaching your ears and the reflected sound reaching your ears that you'll get problems with the soundstage and imaging.
Probably why visitors are so surprised to hear it sounding so good. Some admit they thought it wouldn't sound so good when they saw the size of the room. Bugger, that's one excuse not to buy them crossed off my list
Probably why visitors are so surprised to hear it sounding so good. Some admit they thought it wouldn't sound so good when they saw the size of the room. Bugger, that's one excuse not to buy them crossed off my list
LOL
In fairness if you can get past the biggest stumbling block which is the price all other objections pale into insignificance.
paulf-2007
04-11-2018, 12:48
The price is the biggest stumbling block having not heard them.
paulf-2007
07-11-2018, 17:28
LOL
In fairness if you can get past the biggest stumbling block which is the price all other objections pale into insignificance.
It's only money, problem is import tax and vat which is impossible to avoid with goods from Japan, I'm not sure of the rates but I guess it takes them beyond 2k
It's only money, problem is import tax and vat which is impossible to avoid with goods from Japan, I'm not sure of the rates but I guess it takes them beyond 2k
Might be worth hanging on until after we leave the EU, there's talk of them cutting VAT to 15% in the event of a no deal. 5% of 2 grand is significant.
But I hear what you are saying, if you fancy them then just go for it, you can't take the money with you.
I suspect that the OP will be very disappointed in real life with the drivers.
They seem similar to: http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Manger.htm
paulf-2007
08-11-2018, 18:30
That is the risk involved when taking a punt. I've only got other people's take on these drivers.
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