View Full Version : High end CDP to streaming FLAC
Hi
Looking to hear from those of you who have gone from what I'll loosely call a 'high end CDP' to streaming flac files via the various devices. In terms of sound alone, what pros and cons have you found? I'm considering the Innous zen mini mk2/3 + DAC route but am concerned it will fail to reach the heights and delights of my Lector CD7 MKIII. My fear is joining the streaming bandwagon too early, before it has reached true sonic capability. What are your experiences?
Apologies, this should probably be moved to "Digital"...
It will depend to a certain extent what DAC you are thinking of using with the Innuos Zen Mini. Some will argue all DAC's sound the same or similar. This has not been my experience and have owned a few until I got the right one for me.
What I will say is I didn't make the leap to ditching my CD Player and going the streaming route for sound quality reasons albeit I have now reached a stage where I am content with my digital source. What streaming has brought me personally is convenience and the ability to discover a huge range of new music.
The thing is I think that a CD Player like the Lector will be extremely hard to beat sound quality wise (I used to own one and adored it) - I would suggest that you look for a DAC from Lector or go NOS to get a similar sound if you go the Innuos route (which I would highly recommend).
I have the Zen Mini with a Schiit Gungnir DAC and SoTM SMS 200 Ultra Neo Streamer and SoTM Power Supply. With USB cables that lot is knocking on the door of £4,000. I suspect your Lector would give it a good run for it's money.
Hope this helps a little.
That's great info Robert, thanks very much!
wee tee cee
23-10-2018, 12:14
I run a zen mini mk2 into tq claymore usb dac or seg with dorado psu.
the zen benefited from being run on battery
they havent resolved streaming with spotify premium just yet.
with all my disks ripped to flac it has been an excellent upgrade over a laptop
. My fear is joining the streaming bandwagon too early, before it has reached true sonic capability. What are your experiences?
Streaming is a pretty mature technology now I'd be surprised if there was any big revelations just around the corner so I wouldn't worry about that. And the music doesn't care whether it is stored on a polycarbonate disc or in 'the cloud'. The tricky bit is getting it off the storage medium and out through the speakers without ruining it too much but that's not a new problem.
Yours is a really good CD player. It will be difficult to equal that with a streaming system, IMO. And by streaming do you actually mean network player? The former is streaming via the internet (from Tidal, or wherever), the latter is playing files on your network. There's loads of contentious opinions on the 'net as to whether a FLAC file sounds the same as a CD. In my experience, the CD always comes out top (for whatever reasons; this is not an objective argument I'm making, merely expressing a subjective opinion.
I have recently made some comparisons, with all playing through the (extremely good) DAC in my Audionet DNA1. Best is CD transport via coaxial, 2nd is Bluesound FLAC locally followed by FLAC from Tidal via Bluesound (Bluesound connected via optical, so might be some difference is a result of optical vs coaxial interface? Shouldn't be though, as they're both SPDIF). Same tracks and mastering, as far as i can tell.
The DNA1 is such a good amplifier that these differences are now much more noticeable to me. To the extent that I may just go out and buy a really good CD player to play through the analogue inputs!
Don't get me wrong, I love Tidal and the likes. Very convenient, enormous amount of music to choose from, great way of discovering new music, etc. But when it comes down to the optimum SQ, then CD every time. Incidentally, I've seen some suggesting that a 320kbps MP3 stream is a high end source file. It isn't and never will be. It is very good and may well be good enough for many, but a FLAC file, or even a full fat CD, just sounds so much better.
Hi Simon, a very interesting, honest appraisal and very much as I 'feared'. Yes, I meant a network player, the quality of online streaming just doesn't convince me yet at all... Another CD player looms I think, and that's an entirely different kettle of ball games ;-)
Yours is a really good CD player. It will be difficult to equal that with a streaming system, IMO. And by streaming do you actually mean network player? The former is streaming via the internet (from Tidal, or wherever), the latter is playing files on your network. There's loads of contentious opinions on the 'net as to whether a FLAC file sounds the same as a CD. In my experience, the CD always comes out top (for whatever reasons; this is not an objective argument I'm making, merely expressing a subjective opinion.
I have recently made some comparisons, with all playing through the (extremely good) DAC in my Audionet DNA1. Best is CD transport via coaxial, 2nd is Bluesound FLAC locally followed by FLAC from Tidal via Bluesound (Bluesound connected via optical, so might be some difference is a result of optical vs coaxial interface? Shouldn't be though, as they're both SPDIF). Same tracks and mastering, as far as i can tell.
The DNA1 is such a good amplifier that these differences are now much more noticeable to me. To the extent that I may just go out and buy a really good CD player to play through the analogue inputs!
Don't get me wrong, I love Tidal and the likes. Very convenient, enormous amount of music to choose from, great way of discovering new music, etc. But when it comes down to the optimum SQ, then CD every time. Incidentally, I've seen some suggesting that a 320kbps MP3 stream is a high end source file. It isn't and never will be. It is very good and may well be good enough for many, but a FLAC file, or even a full fat CD, just sounds so much better.
Inclined to disagree. Get streaming networked files and tidal etc right and it's damn good. More convenient too. Probably a lot cheaper too
Inclined to disagree. Get streaming networked files and tidal etc right and it's damn good. More convenient too. Probably a lot cheaper too
My rationale would be that if FLAC can't compete with high-end CDPs, online streaming would have even greater difficulty doing so...
Inclined to disagree. Get streaming networked files and tidal etc right and it's damn good. More convenient too. Probably a lot cheaper too
+1
@Drew, try to audition a well set up streaming system.
But, imo, it is horses for courses - different strokes for different people.
+1
@Drew, try to audition a well set up streaming system.
But, imo, it is horses for courses - different strokes for different people.
That's my problem, its hard to do so here in Italy, but I'll keep looking
My rationale would be that if FLAC can't compete with high-end CDPs, online streaming would have even greater difficulty doing so...
Flac can as it's basically the same. It's the playing back you have to get right. Not all playback systems are equal by a long stretch.
You might be surprised how good you can get it for comparatively little money. Plus with tidal unfolded even once it's very good with 40 mil tracks it's great for new music
Sherwood
23-10-2018, 18:37
Inclined to disagree. Get streaming networked files and tidal etc right and it's damn good. More convenient too. Probably a lot cheaper too
+1 Strongly disagree. The technology has come of age. Apart from the added convenience of accessing thousands of ripped cds I strongly believe that the ripped lossless files sound better than the original cds, especially if played back through upsampling software like Audivarna into a good DAC.
Geoff
+1 Strongly disagree. The technology has come of age. Apart from the added convenience of accessing thousands of ripped cds I strongly believe that the ripped lossless files sound better than the original cds, especially if played back through upsampling software like Audivarna into a good DAC.
Geoff
Thanks Geoff, but is that in comparison to having used top-end CDPs? That is my quandary..
Thanks Geoff, but is that in comparison to having used top-end CDPs? That is my quandary..
Well fwiw relatively recently I had a Sugden Masterclass PDT4 CD player and loved the overall presentation and engaging nature of that top end player. But sold it and now concentrate my efforts on FLAC streaming.
But when I win the lottery I'd love to spend a few ten grand on a top end vinyl rig and vinyl for the sheer pleasure of handling the black circles.
Well fwiw relatively recently I had a Sugden Masterclass PDT4 CD player and loved the overall presentation and engaging nature of that top end player. But sold it and now concentrate my efforts on FLAC streaming.
But when I win the lottery I'd love to spend a few ten grand on a top end vinyl rig and vinyl for the sheer pleasure of handling the black circles.
Do you find the quality of streaming FLAC reaches or surpasses your Sugden?
Only got an oppo 103d but its a more than decent spinner if not hi end. My pc using audirvana out to an rpi is i have to say, my first call now, although bI do like spinning discs too... Vinyl is too labour intensive now for me but it has a sound all of its own and not to be compared imv
Do you find the quality of streaming FLAC reaches or surpasses your Sugden?
Different - both engaging, detailed, transparent, musical - just an uncoloured window to the music.
Different - both engaging, detailed, transparent, musical - just an uncoloured window to the music.
Thanks, what is your streaming set up?
WESTLOWER
23-10-2018, 19:53
Well fwiw relatively recently I had a Sugden Masterclass PDT4 CD player and loved the overall presentation and engaging nature of that top end player. But sold it and now concentrate my efforts on FLAC streaming.
But when I win the lottery I'd love to spend a few ten grand on a top end vinyl rig and vinyl for the sheer pleasure of handling the black circles.
Come to the dark side Edward...
It is easily possible for a CD player to outperform a DAC, and vice-versa, but for me there's a certain risk in CD players, and a DAC is more versatile. Most of the budget should go into the DAC, with there being many sub £60 DVD players out there that are excellent transports, and £200 can build a fully featured silent media server. I recommend using a (transformer isolated) USB to SPDIF converter with a dedicated power supply to provide proper galvanic isolation between PC and DAC. Some knowledge of configuration is needed to to ensure that bit perfect files are outputted. Plugging USB from a computer into a DAC is a very troublesome interface to get sounding good, which is why people find inputs often sound different on DACs, despite using the same files.
This way you get to choose the DAC that suits you, but have the digital sources to plug them into. If I had to put a percentage on it, I'd say 90% of the sound is dictated by the DAC, and 10% by the transport / digital front end.
Sherwood
23-10-2018, 20:12
Thanks Geoff, but is that in comparison to having used top-end CDPs? That is my quandary..
In truth, I have not used a CDP for a few years now. However, I did a home trial of a few reputed mid range players before making the decision to go fully to streaming. This included one of the mid range Naim cd players (I forget the model number now), and a Cyrus setup (the 8 IIRC). Whilst I concede that these were not top flight units, I dd compare them to more expensive units in store and found the differences minimal.
Geoff
Come to the dark side Edward...
I certainly can guarantee that Adam - just send me tomorrow's lottery numbers now. :eyebrows:
Thanks, what is your streaming set up?
Windows 10 machine running Roon Core (+ other stuff e.g. JRiver) > ethernet > Fanless/silent optimised windows 10 machine > usb > DAC > preamp.
But honestly there are many other audio paths just as valid.
On the USB point. When I first started out with DACs the sound quality using USB was atrocious - mainly due to (1) USBs not being asynchronous and (2) many DACs either using the power from the USB or not adequately dealing with it. These days most (all?) well designed DACs are just fine (IMO - as I know this remains a contentious subject).
^^ Good post and I agree, except for the ‘most DACs’ part. A select few have a USB front end that can compete with their SPDIF inputs, especially when fed the extremely low jitter signal of current USB to SPDIF converters. I think this is down to design compromises rather than what is possible.
StanleyB
24-10-2018, 07:26
On the USB point. When I first started out with DACs the sound quality using USB was atrocious - mainly due to (1) USBs not being asynchronous and (2) many DACs either using the power from the USB or not adequately dealing with it.
The asynchronous USB talk is a false flag. Neither is the optical and coax output asynchronous.
The real problem was with the transfer speed of USB1.1.
The asynchronous USB talk is a false flag. Neither is the optical and coax output asynchronous.
The real problem was with the transfer speed of USB1.1.
Interesting.
To be fair I only came to the party when USB 2.0 was already well in place. For me my first standalone DAC was with USB2.0 (a Musiland if I recall) but was powered by USB power. Once I moved to a DAC that had its own power the difference was night and day. Actually the problem with the Musiland went away if I used a laptop running only with a battery - but of course that is not sustainable.
By the way Stan what tech is used in 'audiophile USB' boards (for example ones made by Paul Pang) that makes them so special? (disclosure here: I have a PP card but not yet got it to work correctly). Or put the question in another way what do you do in your DACs to mitigate any USB issues?
StanleyB
24-10-2018, 08:16
I have my own views on many claims made by people marketing their stuff and slapping a huge price mark up on it to match. The use of claims about audiophile etc is more BS.
I myself use a dedicated 5V supply to the USB socket on my DACs with USB in order to get rid of any power supply noise problems from a PC etc. But some people over engineer the whole thing, and then make some dodgy claims. The USB digital signal transfer itself is actually similar to a balanced pair. There is a hot and cold signal line, a ground, and a positive supply line. The latter can be left out if the USB connected device has its own USB power feed. The use of + and - USB signal makes it possible to remove the noise content from the USB signal.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2026 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.