WTD: Technics SP10 , Denon DP80

[mac72]

Hi
Looking for either of the above players , in case of Techie mk2 ,
anything out here ?

[Bigman80]

Hi
Looking for either of the above players , in case of Techie mk2
anything out here ?Speak to Phonomac. His name is Angus, he is the SP10 MK2 guru.

He made this for me. Sold me one of his extremely modded AT1010 arms and I've been shouting it from the rooftops since. All for a very reasonable price.

SPEAK TO ANGUS!!!!!
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181022/df260901f797a46e9170c2d3cdf7333c.jpg

[mac72]

Thanks , I'll try to contact him again

[Bigman80]

I believe he's away until Friday. Give him a shout at the weekend.
Thanks , I'll try to contact him again

[mac72]

I believe he's away until Friday. Give him a shout at the weekend.

Thanks , surely I will ,
I'm bit undecided as which direction to follow , I believe DP80 is slightly superior to SP10 and I like it's looks better on the other hand in case anything happens there is a lot of info online in case of SP10 , any feedback from someone who used both ?

[Bigman80]

I've heard both.

I have an SP10 MK2.

The Denon had the matching arm but can't remember the model number and a Grado Signature cartridge.

Heard another, same spec with a Benz wood cartridge, again I forget the name. That one was better than the previous.

The SP10 had a Phonomac AT1010 arm and a Kontrapunkt b.

Reliability, well the SP10 is quite modular in construction and almost all of it is replaceable with modern day equivalent parts. There is one obsolete part but that's now been bypassed by some clever bloke online.

The Denon, no idea. I've never heard of, or know n anyone who has taken one apart to repair one. There is probably information on them somewhere. They are a sought after turntable.
Thanks , surely I will ,
I'm bit undecided as which direction to follow , I believe DP80 is slightly superior to SP10 and I like it's looks better on the other hand in case anything happens there is a lot of info online in case of SP10 , any feedback from someone who used both ?

[Boyse6748]

Slav,

I can't recommend the DP80 Highly enough. It's certainly the best TT I've ever owned. Mind you, I guess the Dynavector 507 Mk ii arm helps somewhat.

Mind you, as ever it's horses for courses.... Some prefer the SP 10 and no arguments on that subject.

The DP80 will be difficult to repair but everything is possible. If you can find a good one..... You will never look back.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181022/2019274d518194e5815b0bb8444535d5.jpg


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[Bigman80]

That's just a beautiful turntable. Superb, to be honest, anyone is lucky to have either.
Slav,

I can't recommend the DP80 Highly enough. It's certainly the best TT I've ever owned. Mind you, I guess the Dynavector 507 Mk ii arm helps somewhat.

Mind you, as ever it's horses for courses.... Some prefer the SP 10 and no arguments on that subject.

The DP80 will be difficult to repair but everything is possible. If you can find a good one..... You will never look back.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181022/2019274d518194e5815b0bb8444535d5.jpg


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[mac72]

Slav,

I can't recommend the DP80 Highly enough. It's certainly the best TT I've ever owned. Mind you, I guess the Dynavector 507 Mk ii arm helps somewhat.

Mind you, as ever it's horses for courses.... Some prefer the SP 10 and no arguments on that subject.

The DP80 will be difficult to repair but everything is possible. If you can find a good one..... You will never look back.


Peter , can you share some more info where did you source DP80 and DV507 , Man this TT looks awsome , who's made plinth for you ?

[Boyse6748]

Slav,

I originally sourced the DP80 from a friend in Hungry. He has since sourced two other decks for close friends.

The plinth is very special custom made by Lee Denge ( Acustand) and includes some really exotic materials (including acrilic, Derlin & ply) and has magnetic Levitation feet for total isolation.

The Dynavector was purchased from an AOS Member and is lovingly nicknamed "The Car Jack" I have also added the" Archie" headshell, which I think is the icing on the cake.

This deck replaces my Townshend Rock 7 / SME V and is a whole new level above this already well respected deck.

Not much more to say.... Other than Just happiness / pure bliss.


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[mac72]

I believe he's away until Friday. Give him a shout at the weekend.

Oliver ,
any chance for Phonomac's e-mail , I received PM from him but his inbox is full and cannot reply

[itskeith]

Wholeheartedly agree with Oliver.

Speak To Angus!!!

I used to have a SP10 Mk2 / 'Phonomac AT1010' and it was incredible.
In fact I've been lucky enough to hear the arm through many of its variations
(I took many notes and really should do a write up as such)!
Only sold it as i needed to raise some funds for the new house purchase :-(
When i needed to sell it, I didn't even have to advertise it before it was snapped up.

As and when I'm back in the pennies, it's the only arm on my shortlist.

[oldius]

I've seen Peter's deck and heard it and it is truly beautiful.

Both of these decks were the result of significant investment by major companies during the golden age of vinyl. To replace with a deck of equivalent quality by a boutique manufacturer would be tens of thousands. They are outstanding decks.

Having heard the Technics and Denon, as well as owning 7 turntables, I chose the Sony TTS8000. It is in a similar vein to the aforementioned decks; very expensive on release, backed by huge R&D and almost impossible to replace with the same quality.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181023/cbba1f7dcdcceed46b162378287dbbc7.jpg

[Audio Al]

Slav,

I can't recommend the DP80 Highly enough. It's certainly the best TT I've ever owned. Mind you, I guess the Dynavector 507 Mk ii arm helps somewhat.

Mind you, as ever it's horses for courses.... Some prefer the SP 10 and no arguments on that subject.

The DP80 will be difficult to repair but everything is possible. If you can find a good one..... You will never look back.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181022/2019274d518194e5815b0bb8444535d5.jpg


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:stalks::eek::drool::thumbsup:

[jandl100]

This seems to be turning into The best looking turntables Ever thread!

All truly stunning. :stalks:

[Bigman80]

Just waiting for Beobloke to trump us all with his X-9

[Boyse6748]

Now, the X-9 is a lovely TT

About five years ago I have the chance to purchase this DP100.... I’m still kicking myself for not doing so!!!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181023/fcea3a766ee9793de25306fa6dd0fffa.jpg


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[Bigman80]

Now, the X-9 is a lovely TT

About five years ago I have the chance to purchase this DP100.... I’m still kicking myself for not doing so!!!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181023/fcea3a766ee9793de25306fa6dd0fffa.jpg


Sent from my iPad using TapatalkThat's a substantial TT.

[oldius]

The DP100 and Sony X9 are both massively built broadcast decks, designed compete with EMT. They both generally sell for 6k to 10k Euros, along with the SP10 mark 3.

[Cotlake]

Just to join in, here is my Denon DP-80. After extensive listening to Boyce6748’s DP-80, I was convinced. I was a dedicated Garrard 401 user until I happily made the change. Thanks for the supplier connection, Peter.

Mounted in a CLD plinth made by vinylspinner, veneered and finished in Japanese Tamo Ash by Toppsy and used with an Audiomods Series 5 arm with Ortofon Kontrapunct B. The very best sound I’ve ever had.

http://i68.tinypic.com/28u09yx.jpg

[Bigman80]

Just to join in, here is my Denon DP-80. After extensive listening to Boyce6748’s DP-80, I was convinced. I was a dedicated Garrard 401 user until I happily made the change. Thanks for the supplier connection, Peter.

Mounted in a CLD plinth made by vinylspinner, veneered and finished in Japanese Tamo Ash by Toppsy and used with an Audiomods Series 5 arm with Ortofon Kontrapunct B. The very best sound I’ve ever had.

http://i68.tinypic.com/28u09yx.jpgSuperb mate. That's a beautiful turntable.

[Firebottle]

WOW. The dog's danglies for sure :thumbsup:

[Beobloke]

Just waiting for Beobloke to trump us all with his X-9

:lol:

I could do that, or throw in the TX-1000, but that'd just be mean!

I must admit that I've never tried any Denon deck, so that is definitely a bit of a gap in the Beobloke turntable experience log. However, to follow up on what oldius said, I also had an SP10 Mk2 but sold it when a Sony TTS-8000 came my way - it's a truly stunning turntable

[paulf-2007]

My tech mate, sorted out the strobe light on my dp80 and didn't see any reason why he couldn't fix anything on it. He talked about various things that were way over my head. Absolutely love mine and if I did sell it I hope someone would get my head looked at. Almost sold it to Peter, who fortunately was too impatient for a reply from me and bought one elsewhere.

[paulf-2007]

Are you near Brentwood, if so you are welcome to have a listen to mine in Gravesend.

[paulf-2007]

Now, the X-9 is a lovely TT

About five years ago I have the chance to purchase this DP100.... I’m still kicking myself for not doing so!!!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181023/fcea3a766ee9793de25306fa6dd0fffa.jpg

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For looks it's not a patch on your dp80 Peter, looks like something from a research lab.

[mac72]

Are you near Brentwood, if so you are welcome to have a listen to mine in Gravesend.

Paul
Thank you , I might take you up on your offer when I get bit more quite at work , I could bring Paradise phonostage .

[paulf-2007]

Paul
Thank you , I might take you up on your offer when I get bit more quite at work , I could bring Paradise phonostage .if you want to try a cart with the stage, fine. I'm running a Shure ultra into a Sony receiver with built in stage. I sold all my phono stages. My Stax arm has removeable head shells so easy to set up one of your carts.

[Barry]

Now, the X-9 is a lovely TT

About five years ago I have the chance to purchase this DP100.... I’m still kicking myself for not doing so!!!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181023/fcea3a766ee9793de25306fa6dd0fffa.jpg


I'd be kicking myself. It was Denon's statement TT. Purely intended for professional use and a deliberate rival to the EMT 950.

It should of course be mounted in a console, and not used as shown.

Obviously post hoc, but how much was the seller asking for the DP100?

[Boyse6748]

Hello Barry,
At the time it was offered for £1650 the consol was available for £400.
That's the reason I didn't go for it, the consol was just massive and wasn't really house friendly.
I understand now days, that if you could find one it would probably be in excess of £10k


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[Barry]

Hello Barry,
At the time it was offered for £1650 the consol was available for £400.
That's the reason I didn't go for it, the consol was just massive and wasn't really house friendly.
I understand now days, that if you could find one it would probably be in excess of £10k


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£2,000 was a bargain! :wah:

I would have bought it regardless and would have made my own console.

[Frog-n-Oatcakes]

Yes over £10K now for a good condition DP-100 with original wooden body. I had a couple of them between 2006 to 2009.

There is one on yahoo auctions japan if you have around £11500 + shipping and duty taxes :) Once set up its a fine no nonsense turntable. I have the studio version DN-308FT which uses the same motor unit but has on board preamps.

Good luck!

[Darrenw]

Another happy DP80 user here - I got mine from a nice chap in Greece who imports them from japan and does em up - had all the caps etc replaced and a couple of the easier mods to damp things and the whole thing including shipping was only £1k - very nice tt for that money

think he can fix all aspects of it if it should go wrong but will have to find him online again - he built a really flash plinth milled from aluminium I think was how I found him but cant recall his name

pairs very nicely with the FR 64 - one day will get a better plinth as in the standard one currently - looks great and tres cheap at £50 but could be significantly improved upon I suspect

Technics sounded nice but I couldn't live with the looks - would be cool to take the deck off like keneto did if only I had skills

Ollie - you heard mine so add DP80 to your "heard" list

darren

[paulf-2007]

Another happy DP80 user here - I got mine from a nice chap in Greece who imports them from japan and does em up - had all the caps etc replaced and a couple of the easier mods to damp things and the whole thing including shipping was only £1k - very nice tt for that money

think he can fix all aspects of it if it should go wrong but will have to find him online again - he built a really flash plinth milled from aluminium I think was how I found him but cant recall his name

pairs very nicely with the FR 64 - one day will get a better plinth as in the standard one currently - looks great and tres cheap at £50 but could be significantly improved upon I suspect

Technics sounded nice but I couldn't live with the looks - would be cool to take the deck off like keneto did if only I had skills

Ollie - you heard mine so add DP80 to your "heard" list

darren
Jeff of audiomods has one from Greece in a CNC machined plinth.

[Boyse6748]

I think the guy you mean is “Soundofvoid” on Vinyl Engine, real name
“Ioannis”

The man is a genius!!!, well on DP80’s


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[Darrenw]

that's him Ioannis is highly recommended by me at least :)

[mac72]

I think the guy you mean is “Soundofvoid” on Vinyl Engine, real name
“Ioannis”

The man is a genius!!!, well on DP80’s


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SP10 is not going to happen till January/February earliest so I might look into DP60 as well , are you sure it was Soundofvoid I searched vinylengine with no luck so far

[Boyse6748]

Definitely,

Look for Monsterising a DP80


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[mac72]

Definitely,

Look for Monsterising a DP80


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I found him on DIYAudio , thanks

[sq225917]

Some lovely decks on this thread

[Boyse6748]

Sorry, bit of a bum stear there. I did mean DIY AUDIO

Apologies


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[mac72]

Sorry, bit of a bum stear there. I did mean DIY AUDIO

Apologies


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No worries , when you mentioned Monsterising DP80 it rang a bell , much appreciated

[paulf-2007]

No worries , when you mentioned Monsterising DP80 it rang a bell , much appreciated
I based my dp80 plinth on his, he said he preferred his plinth top chamfered the same as the tt, I couldn't do that with mine as its veneered and I couldn't see how I could veneer round the plinth and at an angle, couldn't be done in one piece.
Also his has a separate arm pod that can be knocked out of alignment by accident, whereas my arm paid is bolted to the thick aluminum sub plinth that the main sits on, located with spikes into dimples in the sub plinth.

[mac72]

Back on search , seems like DP80 is off the table as I wanted to use SME309 and it won’t fit .
Anyone selling SP10 mk2 or Sony TTS8000 please get in touch.

[JohnG]

The member from Denmark, who recently purchased a TTS 8000, spoke very highly of the Dutch Vendor, and referenced a TTS 6000 that was available from the same Vendor.
This could be another option, if a Sony model is to be used.

[Nonnegativ]

TTS-8000 on eBay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-TTS-8000-Plattenspieler-und-Zarge-Sony-TB-1000-Turntable-with-base-Raritat/223309423310?hash=item33fe4762ce:g:TbUAAOSwkwdbqgi q

TTS-6000 on audiomarkt:

https://www.audio-markt.de/_markt/item.php?id=9069016960&

Heavy prices though...

[mac72]

TTS-8000 on eBay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-TTS-8000-Plattenspieler-und-Zarge-Sony-TB-1000-Turntable-with-base-Raritat/223309423310?hash=item33fe4762ce:g:TbUAAOSwkwdbqgi q

TTS-6000 on audiomarkt:

https://www.audio-markt.de/_markt/item.php?id=9069016960&

Heavy prices though...

Funnily it was me who posted link to Sony TTS-8000 in your thread. If I only knew Angus won’t be making any SP10’s.

[Dmitry]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181022/2019274d518194e5815b0bb8444535d5.jpg



Excellent! The Dynavector looks menacing, but I bet it's no more difficult to set up than any other pivoted tonearm. Looks fool-proof.

[Nonnegativ]

Funnily it was me who posted link to Sony TTS-8000 in your thread. If I only knew Angus won’t be making any SP10’s.

I know - I'd thought I return the favor :)

I am extremely pleased I pulled the trigger on the TTS-8000.

[mac72]

I know - I'd thought I return the favor :)

I am extremely pleased I pulled the trigger on the TTS-8000.
Thank you for the links , much appreciated.
As it happens there seems to be a light at the end of the tunnel or even two lights.
I am glad you’re enjoying Sony TT

[mac72]

Still looking , anyone

[Bigman80]

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.de%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F192 803209852

[Bigman80]

Left field

https://m.quoka.de/hifi-audio-tv-video-foto/plattenspieler-tonband/c7215a229203820/pioneer-exclusive-p3-plattenspieler-turntable.html

[mac72]

Thanks but as I said DP80 is out of contest

[Boyse6748]

Yes Indeed..... That's very left field.

Not too sure about that deck.


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[Bigman80]

Thanks but as I said DP80 is out of contestOh, apologies

[Bigman80]

Yes Indeed..... That's very left field.

Not too sure about that deck.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThe Exclusive P3! One of the best DD of all time matey, according to TVK

http://www.thevintageknob.org/pioneer-Exclusive_P3.html

[Boyse6748]

Only goes to show how wrong folk can be... (I've had one). The DP80 blows it apart.

Mind you.... Each to their own.


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[mac72]

Oh, apologies
No worries , unfortunately SME arm I just bought wouldn't fit so my search is down to Sony TTS8000 or SP10 at the moment

[Bigman80]

No worries , unfortunately SME arm I just bought wouldn't fit so my search is down to Sony TTS8000 or SP10 at the momentGotcha. I'll keep my eyes peeled.

[Shuffler]

Guess all of you are familiar with this. JVC QL-A7 direct drive auto stop/lift at record end

[paulf-2007]

I wouldn't restrict your turntable choice because of an SME 309. Peter has the dynavector but I would put my Stax up against his anytime.

[hermit]

No worries , unfortunately SME arm I just bought wouldn't fit so my search is down to Sony TTS8000 or SP10 at the moment

Your SME 309 may be ok on a Sony TTS-8000 but it is a big motor unit better suited to a 10 or 12" arm. It will depend on your cartridge whether or not you can get it aligned properly on a 309/TTS-8000. I have seen several TTS-8000s with 9" SME arms on the web so I took a chance on an SME V for my TTS-8000 in a resinamic plinth. Unfortunately my Kiseki cartridge wouldn't align properly.

[mac72]

I wouldn't restrict your turntable choice because of an SME 309. Peter has the dynavector but I would put my Stax up against his anytime.
For different reasons I'm pretty much set on 309 ATM, only other arm I'd buy would be 312 , but not yet .
I could fit CA Satisfy but it sits on Clearaudio TT and probably I'll sell it in the near future.

[mac72]

Your SME 309 may be ok on a Sony TTS-8000 but it is a big motor unit better suited to a 10 or 12" arm. It will depend on your cartridge whether or not you can get it aligned properly on a 309/TTS-8000. I have seen several TTS-8000s with 9" SME arms on the web so I took a chance on an SME V for my TTS-8000 in a resinamic plinth. Unfortunately my Kiseki cartridge wouldn't align properly.
I shall use one of Benz carts on the new TT , can you do me a favour and measure distance from spindle to the outer body if not too much trouble , I make some drawaings to see if I can align it properly . Out of curiosity , have you aligned SME arm with supplied protractor , I use Baerwald alignment on mine and its a fair bit off SME null points.

[hermit]

I shall use one of Benz carts on the new TT , can you do me a favour and measure distance from spindle to the outer body if not too much trouble , I make some drawaings to see if I can align it properly . Out of curiosity , have you aligned SME arm with supplied protractor , I use Baerwald alignment on mine and its a fair bit off SME null points.

The distance from centre spindle to outer body is approx 185mm. I have always used the supplied SME protractor to align my SME arms.

[mac72]

The distance from centre spindle to outer body is approx 185mm. I have always used the supplied SME protractor to align my SME arms.
Thank you , seems like the only way to mount 309 would be tangentially to the body at the distance spindle-pivot ~216mm , at least with my Benz carts .

[oldius]

I did manage my AT ART-1 in an SME IV on my 8000. It is quite tight though

[mac72]

Still looking for

[paulf-2007]

Still looking for
Patience, something will turn up if you persevere

[montesquieu]

For different reasons I'm pretty much set on 309 ATM, only other arm I'd buy would be 312 , but not yet .
I could fit CA Satisfy but it sits on Clearaudio TT and probably I'll sell it in the near future.

zzzzzzzz .....

But seriously there are a ton of fantastic arms out there, yes SME 309/V design looks cool to those of us of a certain age that remember their space-age cool when they arrived on the scene but you are really restricting yourself if turntable choice is driven by the limitations of a tonearm. I always view things the other way round.

There are better, more versatile arms for the money (even from SME! ... I'd take the M2-9R myself - having owned the 12in version).

Have you looked at the Timestep T609 or T610? I didn't pay much more than SME309 retail for my s/h Ikeda IT345 which is an entirely different performance category altogether. And you aren't stuck with using just one headshell.

[Wegamus]

zzzzzzzz .....

But seriously there are a ton of fantastic arms out there, yes SME 309/V design looks cool to those of us of a certain age that remember their space-age cool when they arrived on the scene but you are really restricting yourself if turntable choice is driven by the limitations of a tonearm. I always view things the other way round.

There are better, more versatile arms for the money (even from SME! ... I'd take the M2-9R myself - having owned the 12in version).

Have you looked at the Timestep T609 or T610? I didn't pay much more than SME309 retail for my s/h Ikeda IT345 which is an entirely different performance category altogether. And you aren't stuck with using just one headshell.

I’ve got a Timestep T-612 on the way for my Audio Grail 301 project - reports seem very positive and should be good with my SPU Classic GMII. I could’ve gone for an SME M2-12R or Jelco but the Timestep really interests me. Maybe a 9” Jelco would be nice for my second arm? Would love to get a good mono cartridge for it. Maybe Miyajima Kotetu or mono SPU.

[montesquieu]

I’ve got a Timestep T-612 on the way for my Audio Grail 301 project - reports seem very positive and should be good with my SPU Classic GMII. I could’ve gone for an SME M2-12R or Jelco but the Timestep really interests me. Maybe a 9” Jelco would be nice for my second arm? Would love to get a good mono cartridge for it. Maybe Miyajima Kotetu or mono SPU.

Yes I had the Timestep T612 for a bit and thought it sounded very good indeed .. but as luck would have it the following week I found an Ikeda IT407 for sensible money and jumped to that. Otherwise it would still be here.

There's been a 9in Jelko (the new one, the TK-850) for sale at a very good price over on PFM for a while. I heard the 12in version and thought was was superb. I'd put the Timestep ahead but not by much. It's streets ahead of the old SA750.

[Wegamus]

Yes I had the Timestep T612 for a bit and thought it sounded very good indeed .. but as luck would have it the following week I found an Ikeda IT407 for sensible money and jumped to that. Otherwise it would still be here.

There's been a 9in Jelko (the new one, the TK-850) for sale at a very good price over on PFM for a while. I heard the 12in version and thought was was superb. I'd put the Timestep ahead but not by much. It's streets ahead of the old SA750.

Yes Tom, your review did help make my decision on the Timestep. I’m sure it’ll be great.

I’ve seen that Jelco on PFM and have been thinking about buying it. Looks great value and after speaking to Hugo at Ammonite Audio I’m quite interested in their new models.

I’ve heard that getting correct alignment with an Ikeda is often impossible due to the unusual bend in the arm tube. Have you had any difficulties with your Ikeda arms?

[montesquieu]

Yes Tom, your review did help make my decision on the Timestep. I’m sure it’ll be great.

I’ve seen that Jelco on PFM and have been thinking about buying it. Looks great value and after speaking to Hugo at Ammonite Audio I’m quite interested in their new models.

I’ve heard that getting correct alignment with an Ikeda is often impossible due to the unusual bend in the arm tube. Have you had any difficulties with your Ikeda arms?

My Ikeda 9in (IT345) is a modern one - made by the new people after Ikeda retired in 2011 - and it's spot on for cartridges at SPU distance (52mm) at the official 230mm.

My 12in arm is an early one supposedly made by Ikeda himself and it's slightly more problematic. The issue I think is that a standard distance for Japanese headshells presumes 50mm from start of the headshell to stylus tip. Ortofon themselves say the SPU is 51mm, but when you measure the typical SPU it's more like 52mm or just very slightly less. I standardised on 52mm for all my headshells and that meant slightly adjusting the spindle to pivot distance by an additional 1.5mm from the official 295mm to 296.5. (I've see other maths-heavy calculations that end up at 296.6 which would appear to back up where I ended up). For me that aligns more or less perfectly for Baerwald on my various protractors (I mainly use a Dr Freickert for measurement). You have a bit more leeway on a 12in arm anyway. I'm actually a Stevenson fan but I can live with Baerwald. Took a bit of experimentation and head scratching to work it out though.

[mac72]

zzzzzzzz .....

But seriously there are a ton of fantastic arms out there, yes SME 309/V design looks cool to those of us of a certain age that remember their space-age cool when they arrived on the scene but you are really restricting yourself if turntable choice is driven by the limitations of a tonearm. I always view things the other way round.

There are better, more versatile arms for the money (even from SME! ... I'd take the M2-9R myself - having owned the 12in version).

Have you looked at the Timestep T609 or T610? I didn't pay much more than SME309 retail for my s/h Ikeda IT345 which is an entirely different performance category altogether. And you aren't stuck with using just one headshell.

Yes , you're correct I like the looks of SME309 but more importantly it works/matches with all cartridges I use ( high to medium compliance) but you say I should use high mass arm instead ( 9gram vs 26-28gram) ???????????
M2-9 don't actually solve mounting challenge as the sled is of similar size and mounting distance is the same.

[montesquieu]

Yes , you're correct I like the looks of SME309 but more importantly it works/matches with all cartridges I use ( high to medium compliance) but you say I should use high mass arm instead ( 9gram vs 26-28gram) ???????????
M2-9 don't actually solve mounting challenge as the sled is of similar size and mounting distance is the same.

M2-9R is 9.5g effective mass it’s not a high mass arm. And you have loads of headshell choices short and longer.

I don’t understand your problem. Is it true mounting distance on the TT? The main driver of the choice of arm (even before matching the cartridge compliance which is of course critical ) is the spindle to pivot distance. Can it really be as short as 185mm? What’s the distance in MM from the platter spindle to the centre/ideal mounting point on the armboard? Do you have an alignment tool like a Dr Freickert it Clearaudio ? (More useful than the SME one)

[mac72]

High mass comment was aimed at Ikeda and Timstep arms ,
problem is quite simple , in case of DD drives mounting distance is limited by body of the drive as oppose to just a platter diameter .
SME309 mounting arrangement is based on a sled as opposed to just a pillar , sled is obviously bigger which in some cases makes it not possible to achieve ~215mm pivot to spindle distance (Baerwald null points - my preferred) , hence I'm looking for TTS800 or SP10 as their body is a bit smaller and I could install 309 , and yes I have dr Feickert but I also made some CAD drawings to check above.

[montesquieu]

So what you need is either a longer arm (310?) or one that doesn’t use a sled ...?

[mac72]

So what you need is either a longer arm (310?) or one that doesn’t use a sled ...?
Yes that's right , at some point I'm planning on buying v12 or 312 but at the moment 309 has to do hence interest in mentioned drives only

[paulf-2007]

I don't see the point of a sled unless it's for different arms of different pivot to spindle distance.

[mac72]

I don't see the point of a sled unless it's for different arms of different pivot to spindle distance.
Sled serves similar purpose as elongated holes in the headshell , it compensates for different distance between cartridge mounting holes and stylus .

[hermit]

Have you seen this lovely TTS-6000 (https://www.audio-markt.de/_markt/item.php?id=9069016960) or this one (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/223348643946)? They are quite spendy though.

[Vrajbasi]

Have you seen this lovely TTS-6000 (https://www.audio-markt.de/_markt/item.php?id=9069016960) or this one (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/223348643946)? They are quite spendy though.

Good recommendation I have owned the TTS6000 its a lovely turntable indeed I would have this over other models mentioned on this thread, highly enjoyable great drive and power, but with a touch of class.

[mac72]

Have you seen this lovely TTS-6000 (https://www.audio-markt.de/_markt/item.php?id=9069016960) or this one (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/223348643946)? They are quite spendy though.
Yes , I've seen these two but I have a feeling I'd always regretted not going for 8000 also I'd rather buy just a drive and choose the plinth to my liking.

[paulf-2007]

Sled serves similar purpose as elongated holes in the headshell , it compensates for different distance between cartridge mounting holes and stylus .
Bonkers way of doing something that the headshell can do just as well and restricts what turntable it will fit.

[mac72]

Bonkers way of doing something that the headshell can do just as well and restricts what turntable it will fit.
Disagree , you can align stylus more accurately with null points as its fitted to headshell and you move the pillar within the sled , with slotted holes when you slide cartridge back or forth you automatically change HTA ,with SME sled you can basically drop stylus on the protractor and with HTA key move into required position .

[Gerry]

Use an AT headshell and you can slide the headshell up and down the stub, as well as adjust the azimuth.

I never really had any success with a 9" arm on me SP10, very tight fit, the base of the SP10 flares out ever so slightly. They were destined for 10" broadcast arms.

[Barry]

Bonkers way of doing something that the headshell can do just as well and restricts what turntable it will fit.

Also disagree - there is always a danger of the cartridge fixing 'slewing' in the elongated headshell slots during adjustment. I find cartridge/arm alignment much easier with arms using an arm pillar sliding bedplate: in fact it is essential when using cartridges with integrated headshells, such as Ortofon SPUs, EMT XSDs and some Fidelity Research and Dynavector designs.

[montesquieu]

Also disagree - there is always a danger of the cartridge fixing 'slewing' in the elongated headshell slots during adjustment. I find cartridge/arm alignment much easier with arms using an arm pillar sliding bedplate: in fact it is essential when using cartridges with integrated headshells, such as Ortofon SPUs, EMT XSDs and some Fidelity Research and Dynavector designs.

Not sure I agree it's 'essential' for SPU/EMT etc, you just need to put the arm in the right place to start with. That may not necessarily be at the recommended distance, but it's not that hard to work out. Also most arm collars allow for a mm or two of adjustment after fitting which is all that should be required.

I've had a few arms with sleds, but most of them without, and it's really no hardship at all to do without them even if you are running a clutch of SPUs, or a bunch of other cartridges fixed at SPU distance which is the logical way to set them up if co-habiting with SPUs.

[Barry]

..."just put the arm in the right place"!

That is much easier said than done. Stylus overhang (which can be adjusted either at the headshell, if fitted with slotted holes, or by adjusting the arm pillar to turntable spigot distance with a sliding bedplate), needs to be correct to within 0.1mm to minimise tracking distortion.

Are you sure you can do that? Also I don't know of any headshell/arm collet fixing which has an adjustment range as much as 2mm.

[montesquieu]

..."just put the arm in the right place"!

That is much easier said than done. Stylus overhang (which can be adjusted either at the headshell, if fitted with slotted holes, or by adjusting the arm pillar to turntable spigot distance with a sliding bedplate), needs to be correct to within 0.1mm to minimise tracking distortion.

Are you sure you can do that? Also I don't know of any headshell/arm collet fixing which has an adjustment range as much as 2mm.

Depends how wide you drill the holes for the bolts. It's not hard to provide an arm with 1mm adjustment either way at the armboard.

And 0.1mm? Got any measuring tools that accurate?

Besides no slide can be as solid a mounting as a proper collet.

Also conscious, Barry that I sold you my last arm with a slide which was an Ortofon 309 Limited, which I ultimately replaced with an Ikeda IT407. Though in recent memory I also had an SME M2-12R, whose slide I think I used once setting it up then that was it. Everything else was done at the headshell, to emulate SPU distance which the arm was set up for. Anyway I detected no penalty either time in losing the slide.

[Gerry]

About 10mm of adjustment on top of the 5mm between the two sets of holes. I appreciate it might not work with all cartridges (captive thread ones), but these are some of the best head shells out there IMHO.
https://www.soundcreation.ro/admin/uploads/images/cms_products/module_23782/48523.jpg

[montesquieu]

About 10mm of adjustment on top of the 5mm between the two sets of holes. I appreciate it might not work with all cartridges (captive thread ones), but these are some of the best head shells out there IMHO.
https://www.soundcreation.ro/admin/uploads/images/cms_products/module_23782/48523.jpg

This is the AT LH18? I have a couple of these. Very good indeed and punch way above their price point.

[mac72]

Besides no slide can be as solid a mounting as a proper collet.


Disagree , when you do up sled bolts it clamps around whole arm pillar while "collet" is done up with usually 2 bolts and contact area is a quarter of the pillar area

[montesquieu]

Disagree , when you do up sled bolts it clamps around whole arm pillar while "collet" is done up with usually 2 bolts and contact area is a quarter of the pillar area

Depends entirely on the slide and collet you are talking about. A well engineered collet like Hugo's ones or the ones in my Ikedas is as good as it gets.

[mac72]

Depends entirely on the slide and collet you are talking about. A well engineered collet like Hugo's ones or the ones in my Ikedas is as good as it gets.
Can you post a picture of that collar , ones I've seen used nylon grab screw

[Barry]

Yes I'm aware of the provision of a sliding bedplate on the Ikeda modified Ortofon 309 arm I bought from you - in fact the inclusion of the bedplate was one of the reasons why I bought it. (Only later did I find out that such after market bedplates are available on eBay.)

Regarding the 'solidity' of the arm mounting, I can't see fixings passing through holes for the arm base collar that have been drilled 1mm oversize as being any more rigid than using a sliding bedplate whose fixings are screwed into a wooden armboard, or use snug-fitting bolts if an acrylic armboard is used - quite the opposite in fact.

Furthermore the two clamping nuts that secure the SME arm pillar to the bedplate can be done up tightly; much tighter than that done with the 'grub screw' of the aftermarket bedplate design used with the Ortofon arm.

You question the ability of achieving an arm pillar to turntable spigot distance accurate to within 0.1mm - well you won't with the cheap cardboard template provided by most arm manufacturers, but then those arms usually use slotted headshells with an ample adjustment range. However some arms with fixed (and slotted) headshells can come with a precision metal mounting template where the arm mounting hole can be easily drilled to within 0.1mm using a pillar drill - the Breuer arm used such a metal template, and I have made up my own metal template for the Brinkmann arm.


So maybe sliding bedplates are not "essential" when using integrated headshell cartridges, but they certainly make the task a whole lot easier.

[karma67]

Back on search , seems like DP80 is off the table as I wanted to use SME309 and it won’t fit .
Anyone selling SP10 mk2 or Sony TTS8000 please get in touch.

heres one,
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/303049857407?ul_noapp=true

[mac72]

I can't believe that ,
I got bit fed up waiting and on Saturday afternoon I pulled the trigger on SME10 but there is bit of a problem with packaging and they will let me know about tomorrow. Since then one of the members got in touch and there is SP10 available but in need of restoration and now that , it's going to be sleepless night

heres one,
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/303049857407?ul_noapp=true

[Bigman80]

I can't believe that ,
I got bit fed up waiting and on Saturday afternoon I pulled the trigger on SME10 but there is bit of a problem with packaging and they will let me know about tomorrow. Since then one of the members got in touch and there is SP10 available but in need of restoration and now that , it's going to be sleepless nightHopefully there is a refund on the SME then you can get one of the heat Japanese DD turntables.

Either a SP10 OR TTS8000 is gonna be a winner

[karma67]

you wont be disappointed with either turntable,it all boils down to what you like best and cost,i reckon the sony will go for £650,if its not too far away view before bidding.

[Shuffler]

Still got nine days to go, depends how much you want it and how much work it needs. Personally I think it will rocket.If good ones in Europe are going for Eu2000 plus that one could reach half that or more

[karma67]

Still got nine days to go, depends how much you want it and how much work it needs. Personally I think it will rocket.If good ones in Europe are going for Eu2000 plus that one could reach half that or more

that's dealer prices, if in mint condition id go up to £1000,but like you say it depends on how much you want it.

[mac72]

I'll talk to dealer tomorrow about that SME TT and see what's what , it's nice to have that sort of headache .
In the meantime , as SP10 require restoration and I'm sort of leaning towards Techie, anyone successfully tried re-finishing body , like stripping it down and anodizing again or something similar ?

[Bigman80]

I'll talk to dealer tomorrow about that SME TT and see what's what , it's nice to have that sort of headache .
In the meantime , as SP10 require restoration and I'm sort of leaning towards Techie, anyone successfully tried re-finishing body , like stripping it down and anodizing again or something similar ?

These guys will do you a good refinish on the surface:

https://www.acoustand.co.uk/products/technics-sp10-turntable-chassis-amp-platter-restoration

For anything under "the Skin" I'd speak to Phonomac BUT he is so busy at the minute that you will have to wait. Who knows for how long.

[Bigman80]

you wont be disappointed with either turntable,it all boils down to what you like best and cost,i reckon the sony will go for £650,if its not too far away view before bidding.

I'll buy it for £650 :)

Only joking Mac, I wouldn't do that to ya

[mac72]

I'll buy it for £650 :)

Only joking Mac, I wouldn't do that to ya
Problem with Sony is bit out of the way , with current workload I wouldn't be able to collect for weeks .
One more question as Techie comes without PSU I'd need to source or built one , is there PSU design anywhere available or do I need to start from scratch ?

[Bigman80]

Problem with Sony is bit out of the way , with current workload I wouldn't be able to collect for weeks .
One more question as Techie comes without PSU I'd need to source or built one , is there PSU design anywhere available or do I need to start from scratch ?Hmmmm, could be tricky. Lots of available aftermarket ones.

Firebottle is very good for PSUs. If Phonomac still isn't taking on any new work at the minute, that's the next stop on my list of people to ask.

Obviously Angus (Phonomac) is a SP10 Demi god, hence him being first choice for this stuff.

[DiveDeepDog]

With an sme arm on it it’ll be £1k+ all day long.

[Bigman80]

I believe this is good to go. No strobe though. Same as mine in that respect. If the speed is off, you'll know because it'll be way off. No strobe required imo.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190204/62bee9b72b43fdf9469bb0500bb75be1.jpg

[mac72]

I just looked at required voltages and thought about building something around LM317 voltage regulator but wasn't sure what 140VDC is for , thanks for this .
I guess I'd have to wait now , tbh if SME happens I won't be disappointed , ready to fit my tonearm and off I go ,

[DiveDeepDog]

heres one,
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/303049857407?ul_noapp=true

Anyone here snaffle the Sony? Had a look at progress this morning and its vanished from history...

[Bigman80]

Anyone here snaffle the Sony? Had a look at progress this morning and its vanished from history...No, was to watching it.

Luckily, I know where there is another one [emoji6]

[mikeyb]

Anyone here snaffle the Sony? Had a look at progress this morning and its vanished from history...Someone made him an offer he couldn't refuse, with NO fees [emoji23]

[disco]

I'll talk to dealer tomorrow about that SME TT and see what's what , it's nice to have that sort of headache .
In the meantime , as SP10 require restoration and I'm sort of leaning towards Techie, anyone successfully tried re-finishing body , like stripping it down and anodizing again or something similar ?

I have a domestic version that has had a simple but very attractive finish by removing all the paint (other than the dished area under the platter), smoothing off and then linishing to give a lovely brushed aluminium finish which I now think I prefer to the original; just as attractive and far more practical. I have seen similar finishes whereby the paint has been stripped and the aluminium chassis has been highly polished.
I have 2 more of these decks which are the broadcast version and which work fine but they require restoring cosmetically in a similar way. All 3 power supplies have now been recapped and work perfectly. Recapping was a little troublesome due to tracking on the PCB from previously leaking caps.

[karma67]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/303071864714?ul_noapp=true

lol the sonys back on again,a slight price rise :lol:

[mac72]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/303071864714?ul_noapp=true

lol the sonys back on again,a slight price rise :lol:

Thanks Jamie ,
in the end I went for SME 10 , mainly due to lack of time required for restoration/fettling , I surely will follow my interest in direct drive bit not at this time .
Thanks to all for help

[mikeyb]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/303071864714?ul_noapp=true

lol the sonys back on again,a slight price rise :lol:

they're always looking for profit in family tragedy with eBay these days :lol::lol: