View Full Version : Tone arm upgrade considerations
Hi good folk of AOS:)
I have been considering for a while a new tone arm for my NA interspace, currently I use an OL fettled Rega which sounds good to me, whilst this is more than ok I am wondering whether if I spend say 700-1000 britisher pounds on something it will be a big enough jump up to warrant the outlay. Given that I'm happy to buy secondhand I suspect it will be. So a couple of questions/considerations I have :scratch:-
Differences between unipivot and normal bearing arms, generally I read that unipivots are great on detail and mids etc but can be a bit bass light compared with normal arms, is this a good rule of thumb? Any other thing to consider with these types of arm?
I really need a Rega (single central hole) fixing and geometry if possible for a drop in replacement on my TT.
I'm not going to go down the Denon 103 or SPU route yet (if ever!:ner:) so don't really need detachable head shells etc. My current Cart is a ZYX Yatra which I am very happy with and has a lot of life left in it so not really going to change this for a couple of years. I run it on the Rega with a 5gm extra weight which it seems to like.
Happy to buy second hand or consider things slightly left field, no air bearing stuff though, can't be arsed with that an probably out of my price range.
Things I have looked at - OL arms , Audio note, Up the Rega range, Notts Analouge stuff. If you can make me think about others I'd be grateful!
For a description of my system and how it sounds the good Mr Gong was kind enough to write a review after a brief visit here, the only think that has changed since has been the addition of a pair of Firebottle monos , and very good they are to, now using the Classik as a pre. They have certainly been a great addition , more grip , detail and scale apparent now, with out losing any of the attributes Mr Gong describes.:)
https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?56161-Short-but-sweet-time-with-Member-Andy-SMANGUS
SO any ideas , considerations, suggestions are most welcome!
Cheers Andy
Bigman80
21-10-2018, 18:57
Andy!!!!!
Give Phonomac a shout. His PMAT-1010 is just superb. It's a heavily modified Audio Technica AT1010 and it's the best arm I have ever heard. I haven't heard a SME MkV though but that's out of budget.
An arm from Angus can be had within your budget and I promise you, you'll never look back.
He's just about to go to the MK6 version of his arm and I'm fetching mine on Saturday.
Ask him nicely, he may loan you one to try, if he has one left. He's running out of arms!!!
Trust me, it's the last arm you'll ever buy. Unless you land on some hefty money and go crackers [emoji6]
and go crackers [emoji6]
To late!! lol :D:mental:
Thanks will think seriously about this, what's the geometry?
Cheers Oli
Bigman80
21-10-2018, 19:10
To late!! lol :D:mental:
Thanks will think seriously about this, what's the geometry?
Cheers OliNo idea mate, it'll be on Vinyl engine. The arms effective length etc all stays the same, it's the insides he improves. No reason I can think of for it not to work on your TT.
Cool I'll look it up , only heard good about them.
paulf-2007
21-10-2018, 20:14
Pivot to spindle on rega is 222mm effective length 237mm.
graham67
21-10-2018, 20:42
Not heard the at1010 however i can highly recommend the audio note arm v2 as an excellent product. I started with an arm one and eventually upgraded to arm three. Very dynamic and upbeat presentation compared to the jelco 750 fitted previously. It also uses the single pillar rega mount so is a drop in replacement. Only real downside is that cart swapping is not as easy as n arm with a detachable headshell.
Not heard the at1010 however i can highly recommend the audio note arm v2 as an excellent product. I started with an arm one and eventually upgraded to arm three. Very dynamic and upbeat presentation compared to the jelco 750 fitted previously. It also uses the single pillar rega mount so is a drop in replacement. Only real downside is that cart swapping is not as easy as n arm with a detachable headshell.
Thanks I have been drooling over the ANs very nice design too.
Mike Reed
21-10-2018, 21:07
As you've got a N.A. deck, have you considered a 12" arm like, e.g. their own Anna or Ace Anna (which I have on my Dais). Your Zyx is a pretty fast cart. and, i.m.o., would suit the (slightly unusual) unipivot bearings as opposed to gimballed arms. Mine is, I think, Rega fit as standard but you can check.
As you've got a N.A. deck, have you considered a 12" arm like, e.g. their own Anna or Ace Anna (which I have on my Dais). Your Zyx is a pretty fast cart. and, i.m.o., would suit the (slightly unusual) unipivot bearings as opposed to gimballed arms. Mine is, I think, Rega fit as standard but you can check.
Hi thanks haven't thought of a 12"er , didn't think the budget would stretch so far , will look at the NA arms though.
In this price range, I find the Funk Firm F5 an interesting proposition.
I like the way you can tune it to use cartridges of differing compliance’s.
hifi_dave
22-10-2018, 09:01
Definitely think about A Notts Ace Space arm, the natural partner for a Notts deck. Wonderful arms, dead easy to fit and a joy to use.
2nd hand Audio Origami PU7.
ianlenco
22-10-2018, 09:48
Hi good folk of AOS:)
Differences between unipivot and normal bearing arms, generally I read that unipivots are great on detail and mids etc but can be a bit bass light compared with normal arms, is this a good rule of thumb? Any other thing to consider with these types of arm?
Cheers Andy
Not too sure I agree with that rule of thumb. I've had a few unipivots over the years including VPI, Mayware and the whacky RS-A1 and never thought they were deficient in the bass area. I've still got an early Nottingham Analogue Space arm although it is not currently in use. I'd be tempted to use one of these on an NA turntable. Mine is way below your budget though :)
I'd be interested in trying a unipivot. Nottingham Analogue seem to like them a lot, so some potential synergy here.
hifi_dave
22-10-2018, 10:20
Definitely and they are not wibbly, wobbly like most unipivots.
martian sunrise
22-10-2018, 10:29
there's a mk 2 illustrious on the bay for 800
martian sunrise
22-10-2018, 10:29
and a pu7, for that matter
The PU7 On ebay is Linn geometry ie 211mm spindle to pivot, the OP wants rega geometry ie 222mm Spindle to pivot, so maybe no good.
Interesting, scratches head. :)
hifi_dave
22-10-2018, 11:30
As you've got a N.A. deck, have you considered a 12" arm like, e.g. their own Anna or Ace Anna (which I have on my Dais). Your Zyx is a pretty fast cart. and, i.m.o., would suit the (slightly unusual) unipivot bearings as opposed to gimballed arms. Mine is, I think, Rega fit as standard but you can check.
Not possible on the Inter Space, which has a conventional plinth, so can't accommodate a longer arm.
Not possible on the Inter Space, which has a conventional plinth, so can't accommodate a longer arm.
Good point! Cheers
Whoever tried to pm me I have cleared some space in my inbox. :)
Cheers
Andy
If you want to stay with Rega mount arms, how about an Audiomods? They're pretty damn good.
Or a Funk FX-R arm.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Jac Hawk
23-10-2018, 17:34
If you want to stay with Rega mount arms, how about an Audiomods? They're pretty damn good.
Agreed and they look darn good too Audiomods Series 5 (http://www.audiomods.co.uk/series5.pdf)
ok looks ljke I have to check a couple of things with manufacturers before ruling some suggestions in or out !
thanks for all the comment btw cheers Andy
sq225917
23-10-2018, 21:10
3rd for the audionote. I don't have one but it's the best small brand arm I've heard.
Quick update
Just spoke to the very helpful Penny at NA and she's going to look in the mega tone arm library of fittings to see if they do an AT1010 fitting for the interspace, so the result of this will rule a Phonomac in or out I guess. Other than that I have had a couple of hard thinking days!! Luckily it's almost the weekend so I can cure my tonearm headaches with some rum and coke later :cool::cool:
Bigman80
26-10-2018, 13:02
Quick update
Just spoke to the very helpful Penny at NA and she's going to look in the mega tone arm library of fittings to see if they do an AT1010 fitting for the interspace, so the result of this will rule a Phonomac in or out I guess. Other than that I have had a couple of hard thinking days!! Luckily it's almost the weekend so I can cure my tonearm headaches with some rum and coke later :cool::cool:Fingers crossed!
Fingers crossed!
Yes , although it might be helpful if 1 option was ruled out iyswim. lol
Bigman80
26-10-2018, 13:26
Yes , although it might be helpful if 1 option was ruled out iyswim. lolI know mate, the choice and the magnitude of the spend really put a pressure on decisions like this.
Easy for us all to say do this! Do that! But you've got to spend the money.
The most important aspects of an arm (assuming is mechanically sound) is adjustability in my opinion. Cart setup is the most important part to get right or nothing sounds right. Having an arm that has no Azimuth or VTA like the Rega arms would drive me crazy and did when I had one. The Mission 774 was a really adjustable arm but fiddly. The PMAT1010 is great for all that stuff. I'd never buy an arm that didn't have the adjustability I desire.
Good luck.
yes agreed , think I have narrowed it down to 2/3 choices. Hadn't factored in adjustability yet but that might swing it.
Bigman80
26-10-2018, 13:37
yes agreed , think I have narrowed it down to 2/3 choices. Hadn't factored in adjustability yet but that might swing it.Don't buy with your eyes mate, sure it has to appeal but usually, that'll lead to a mistake.
At the very least, azimuth and VTA adjustability imo.
Don't worry I'm considering this very carefully. At the end of the day I haven't committed any money yet, if the right thing is not available then I can wait. :)
hifi_dave
26-10-2018, 14:18
Quick update
Just spoke to the very helpful Penny at NA and she's going to look in the mega tone arm library of fittings to see if they do an AT1010 fitting for the interspace, so the result of this will rule a Phonomac in or out I guess. Other than that I have had a couple of hard thinking days!! Luckily it's almost the weekend so I can cure my tonearm headaches with some rum and coke later :cool::cool:
Shouldn't be a problem, you just need the appropriate collet and maybe also the collar to fit the AT. Once you have that you will also have the facility to raise and lower the arm.
Ok , so according to NA the AT1010 should fit the Rega collet but the pivot to spindle length is 225mm vs 222 for the Rega so the nice Mr Phonomac is going to check it out for me to see if it might be an option , if not I have another idea to ponder:hmm::hmm:
Or I might do something completely different :brickwall: lol.
Bigman80
29-10-2018, 00:00
Ok , so according to NA the AT1010 should fit the Rega collet but the pivot to spindle length is 225mm vs 222 for the Rega so the nice Mr Phonomac is going to check it out for me to see if it might be an option , if not I have another idea to ponder:hmm::hmm:
Or I might do something completely different :brickwall: lol.Be a shame if it wouldnt work. The Angus's MK6 is very very good.
Well unfortunately for various reasons (geometry related) the PMAT1010 is not a goer , many thanks to Angus for his time in answering my questions!
So the search continues .... :dance:
I have an idea
Bigman80
29-10-2018, 16:17
Well unfortunately for various reasons (geometry related) the PMAT1010 is not a goer , many thanks to Angus for his time in answering my questions!
So the search continues .... :dance:
I have an ideaWhat a shame. Never mind, at least you've asked the question!!
It is a shame. I love my PMAT1010
Yes, but I didn't want to risk it not being quite right and so not making any cart show its best. So a shame but there might be other options out there , well there are:). I just need to consider whats available and make a decision. eek! :eek::D
Crosses fingers and presses "purchase " button on website.....
Plan A is dead , long live plan A!!:yay:
Bigman80
30-10-2018, 23:46
Crosses fingers and presses "purchase " button on website.....
Plan A is dead , long live plan A!!:yay:What you got!!!!
Audio Origami Uniarm ex dem:)
And in true hifi upgrade tradition slightly over budget , but not by much :D
Bigman80
31-10-2018, 06:41
And in true hifi upgrade tradition slightly over budget , but not by much :D[emoji1787] fair play mate, I really hope you love it!
[emoji1787] fair play mate, I really hope you love it!
Thanks from what I've read pretty sure i will. Obs pics and 1st impressions etc to follow when fitted! If really don't like it then I can sell it on and start again lol. Seems to be a general opinion that NA decks and unipivots suit each other though and everyone knows OA do quality kit so I'm really looking forward to seeing what it's like.
Bigman80
31-10-2018, 07:52
I'm sure you will love it.
As a PU7 user I enjoy Johnies work. I have not heard the new Uniarm and will look forward to your thoughts once its fitted.
Hope its easier than the ace space tonearm I had on my old spacedeck which was a nightmare LOL
RobbieGong
01-11-2018, 10:12
Just delivered!!:eek::)
The best deliveries are hifi related ones :exactly:
Bigman80
01-11-2018, 10:24
Is it on yet???? [emoji55]
RobbieGong
01-11-2018, 11:38
Cant rush tonearm / cartridge set up as we know otherwise any evaluation is flawed! ;)
Getting there , decided to do some tt tlc aswell . Oil change etc :)
its a fine piece of engineering though.
Bigman80
01-11-2018, 13:49
Getting there , decided to do some tt tlc aswell . Oil change etc :)
its a fine piece of engineering though.Haha, fair enough.
ok up and running so will post thoughts and pic later. Couple of things i need to sort , its a bit tail up but i need to get a couple of shorter collet support pillers from NA to lower it by about 3 mm. Sound very open slightly toppy but i think the cales are basically brand new so need running in. They are Van Damme silver plated ofc to the phono plugs. can't quit get the azimuth correct due to height needing adjusting but can live with it atm.
Initial thoughts - It's wobbly ! Never used a unipivot arm b4, I can add silicon damping but though I'd use as is for the moment. apparently this can also help tame to much high frequency. Sounds airy and detailed plenty of bass. ��
It also looks really nice.:)
Bigman80
01-11-2018, 15:37
ok up and running so will post thoughts and pic later. Couple of things i need to sort , its a bit tail up but i need to get a couple of shorter collet support pillers from NA to lower it by about 3 mm. Sound very open slightly toppy but i think the cales are basically brand new so need running in. They are Van Damme silver plated ofc to the phono plugs. can't quit get the azimuth correct due to height needing adjusting but can live with it atm.
Initial thoughts - It's wobbly ! Never used a unipivot arm b4, I can add silicon damping but though I'd use as is for the moment. apparently this can also help tame to much high frequency. Sounds airy and detailed plenty of bass. ��
It also looks really nice.:)We will await your assesment.
https://ibb.co/ksV3DV
Just testing my new photo hosting , looks like it's working , will post new thread on fitting etc.
cheers Andy :)
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