Digital Confusion - Advice needed!!!

[AJSki2fly]

OK, so even though I have worked in IT for many years, and am reasonably up to date on computers and have ripped all my CD's to a NAS drive for ease of playing I have not necessarily kept up to date with advances on digital music replay and streaming at hi-res etc. So I have been looking at several things and would like a bit of advice or views on what to go for bearing in mind that I do not want to spend lots of dosh but want a high quality of playback. To be honest it is all a bit confusing.

Options as I understand it

1 Use Audirvana, VOX or ROON on Mac in conjunction with a DAC connected to my HiFi, at present my choice of DAC would be the Beresford Caiman SEG which seems to be liked by quite a few on here and is not too costly

2. Use Volumio with an ALLO – THE BOSS PLAYER (Raspberry PI 3 B+ and Allo BOSS I2S DAC) so ready to plug and play and I will be able to control it from my Mac or iPad etc

3. Use Volumio with VOLUMIO – MINI86 and Beresford Caiman SEG once again control it all from Mac or iPad etc, also I could connect the MINI 86 to TV or the MAC by HDMI

Can anyone advise me on Audirvana, versus VOX versus ROON versus, VOLUMIO as a front end from the point of ease of use and flexibility?

Volumio with an ALLO – THE BOSS PLAYER seems to be the most cost effective solution, but would I be sacrificing on playback quality here?
Would the Mini86 with the Caiman SEG be the better option or possibly using the Caiman SEG with another VOLUMIO device?

Thanks in advance for any guidance given.

Regards

Adrian

[struth]

audirvana to a rpi works too wirelessly or wired. just another option. audirvana is under £100. roon is over £100, but every year. Trick is to try them out on a trial.
having the connections already set up as up dont get all that long to test if you have issues getting it working. Jriver is another option(a bit cheaper too) works well and will connect to a rpi as well.

they all have ipad apps

[Sherwood]

I would go for an Rpi with the new Digione signature into a Caiman SEG with Dorado power supply. This is effectively my system (I am using the standard Digione though).

Audirvana is great although I find you need a pretty powerful PC with plenty of fast RAM (16gb DDR4) to handle the upsampling. I am using an Intel NUC with i5 processor and 16gb DDR4 ram and that is enough to upsample to DSD128. The MAC version may require less in terms of hardware overheads.

This setup sounds awesome. Tidal is fully integrated into Audivarna and their Masters HD files are superb.

I prefer Volumio to other Rpi players because of its interface, but I don't think there are any differences in SQ between Volumio and Moode or the other Rpi software.

Geoff

[Manicatel]

Haven’t compared your wish list myself, but I’ve been using a MacMini Audirvana/Tidal Hifi into my DAC for quite a while now. Very happy with the set up in all respects. Stability, reliability, sound quality, ease of use etc etc.
As Geoff said, 4gb ram in the MacMini probably isn’t enough to ensure smooth running, aim for 8 or more.
Other than that I can heartily recommend that set up & you can trial Tidal & Audirvana for a month before committing.

[struth]

Think Ive got either 6 or 8 go ram and an i5 processor. I could up mine to 32/192 without any issues. I don't manage dsd Mines an rpi 2b But at that level of upsampling is sounds terrific out of the volumio2 app. Considering it's an old laptop and being used for other things too it's surprisingly good.
Shows what can be achieved on a budget

[AJSki2fly]

I would go for an Rpi with the new Digione signature into a Caiman SEG with Dorado power supply. This is effectively my system (I am using the standard Digione though).

Audirvana is great although I find you need a pretty powerful PC with plenty of fast RAM (16gb DDR4) to handle the upsampling. I am using an Intel NUC with i5 processor and 16gb DDR4 ram and that is enough to upsample to DSD128. The MAC version may require less in terms of hardware overheads.

This setup sounds awesome. Tidal is fully integrated into Audivarna and their Masters HD files are superb.

I prefer Volumio to other Rpi players because of its interface, but I don't think there are any differences in SQ between Volumio and Moode or the other Rpi software.

Geoff

OK how about this and http://iqaudio.co.uk/home/52-pi-dac-bundle.html and then into Caiman SEG, the DIGIONE SIGNATURE PLAYER seems a bit pricey or is this actually better S/PDIF out quality?

Thanks for the help,

Adrian

[Sherwood]

OK how about this and http://iqaudio.co.uk/home/52-pi-dac-bundle.html and then into Caiman SEG, the DIGIONE SIGNATURE PLAYER seems a bit pricey or is this actually better S/PDIF out quality?

Thanks for the help,

Adrian

The IQ board is fine but the Allo Digione is far better. Yes, it is considerably more expensive than other RPi audio boards, but it justifies the price. If the Signature model is too much for you to consider, then still go with the basic Digione. I am contemplating selling my Digione to upgrade to the Digione Signature though.

Geoff

[AJSki2fly]

The IQ board is fine but the Allo Digione is far better. Yes, it is considerably more expensive than other RPi audio boards, but it justifies the price. If the Signature model is too much for you to consider, then still go with the basic Digione. I am contemplating selling my Digione to upgrade to the Digione Signature though.

Geoff

Hi Geoff

Will you be selling the DigiOne as stand alone or with Rpi? I am a quandary now as having read a bit more it seems the signature model and Caiman Seg is the best option of that ilk although a bit pricey all together width psus. I have also come across the ALLO kantata and the new version shortly to come out sounds like a very good all in one solution, whether better or not I have no idea, but much more cost effective. I am beginning to form some views on music player software and o have to say I have mixed views, have a read of my other thread.

Thanks

Adrian

[AJSki2fly]

So I am trying to evaluate and get my head around what appear to be the main music players out there, which is proving to not be that easy.

I have been trialling Audvirna 3+ on my Mac and it seems quite reliable and reasonably easy to use, although the UI is a bit old school, at least you can try it.

Next up was Volumio, the interface looks good and from what I read about it seems generally liked. So I loaded onto an memory stick and booted the Mac off of it into unix running the software, everything looked good but no matter what I did it would not conect to WiFi, after several frustrating hours of searching the net I decided to split partition my macbook hard drive allocating 16gb for the Volumio boot efi/system. Then to port it from the memory stick onto this new partition using the feature in Volumio. Guess what it ported it but wiped my whole drive, great!!!! So I have had to restore the MacBook and am in the process of restoring from my backup. I have a suspicion that Volumio did not properly pick up the second partition on my hard drive and just wiped it at root by configuring the drive for unix, YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!

So I have not been able to try out Volumio and cannot now until I get a Rpi, which is somewhat disheartening. However having read quite a bit about Volumio in the support pages and various forums it is now clear to me that it is not a simple plug n play in all cases and if it goes wrong the end user could soon be well out of their depth. Please bear in mind that I have worked in IT since 83 and currently as technical support, so I do not just point this out of frustration.

So next step is to trial ROON running on my MAC once it is restored that is. If I like ROON then I need to decide whether to use the Mac as the server or a Rpi. I see that ALLO, hifiberry and IQaudIO products all work with it, I would just need to decide which suits best.

So I have not ruled out Volumio, but I think it would have to be on Rpi. Audirvana is a possibility but it means tying up the Mac, and losing flexibility. Roon if I like the interface and QA then this may be the solution with it running on an Rpi connected to either a built on DAC or via an S/pdif to a Caiman Seg.

It seems ROON may give the best flexibility but Volumio could as well if I can be convinced it’s reliable and not a geeks can of worms?

Anyone out there who can give me their thoughts or advice on this, would be gratefully appreciated.

[struth]

volumio2 is usually used on an rpi. its pretty straightforward this way, as i can do it. i wouldnt have even thought of trying it on a mac

[Sherwood]

Hi Geoff

Will you be selling the DigiOne as stand alone or with Rpi? I am a quandary now as having read a bit more it seems the signature model and Caiman Seg is the best option of that ilk although a bit pricey all together width psus. I have also come across the ALLO kantata and the new version shortly to come out sounds like a very good all in one solution, whether better or not I have no idea, but much more cost effective. I am beginning to form some views on music player software and o have to say I have mixed views, have a read of my other thread.

Thanks

Adrian

Adrian,

Yes it is possible for the costs to build up, but we are talking about a level of performance that exceeds that of cd players costing several thousands of pounds. As for the Katana, I have been put of somewhat by the messy board arrangement and the faff of so many power supplies to get it working at its best. The Katana appears from reviews to be a superb device, but just not for me.

Furthermore, I think that is would be very difficult to beat the performance of the Caiman SEG with the new Dorado power enhancer. The latest version also comes with the option of a power supply to match the Dorado. Having a separate DAC also gives you greater flexibility such as being able to connect a TV or Bluray player. A complete SEG setup with Dorado is under 300 quid I think.

Have you had the opportunity to hear an RPi based system? If not, I think you will be truly amazed at the SQ, even before messing around with fancy power supplies. There may be some AoS members near to you who could demo their setups.

I started off with an RPi Hifiberry DIGI+ which is still excellent. However, The Digione is better, though at 5 times the price of the former it should be. I no longer use the Hifiberry DIGI+ system so if you wanted to dip your toes in the "Digital Stream" so to speak I could let you have that for 50 quid plus postage. This would include the Rpi, Hifiberry DIGI+ board, a fully configured SD card with Volumio, in a black acrylic case. You would need you own USB power supply but this is effectively a plug and play system.

If I did sell the RPi/Digione it would be as a complete unit, again in its own acrylic case.

Whatever hardware solution you choose, I would strongly advise you get a free trial of Audivarna. This is not just a neat file management programme, but it also processes music files via upsampling and other "trickery" to greatly improve their sound quality.

[AJSki2fly]

PM sent

[AJSki2fly]

Well I’ve taken the plunge into proper digital replay, hopefully. I’ve gone ahead and purchased from the lovely Geoff his Rpi with Digi+ to get started and on various people’s advice, including Geoff’s, I have ordered the Caiman SEG and Dorado PSU from Stan. With any luck it will all be here on Monday and then I can have fun playing.

I am hoping for good renditions of at least FLAC, M4p and Wav. I will also connect up optically my Meridian 508 CD player to the SEG for occasional CD Listening.

I then will just need to decide which player I prefer, Volumio 2, Audvirana, or Roon are the main contenders.

All quite exciting!

[Sherwood]

Well I’ve taken the plunge into proper digital replay, hopefully. I’ve gone ahead and purchased from the lovely Geoff his Rpi with Digi+ to get started and on various people’s advice, including Geoff’s, I have ordered the Caiman SEG and Dorado PSU from Stan. With any luck it will all be here on Monday and then I can have fun playing.

I am hoping for good renditions of at least FLAC, M4p and Wav. I will also connect up optically my Meridian 508 CD player to the SEG for occasional CD Listening.

I then will just need to decide which player I prefer, Volumio 2, Audvirana, or Roon are the main contenders.


All quite exciting!

It's lovely to be lovely! :)

Just a few points. Volumio is one of several Rpi operating systems for music playback. Others include Moode. Most use the same core linux software so SQ is similar. Just a question of which you prefer. The great thing is that all you need to do to test them out is to write the OS to another micro SD card and swap it for the one in the Rpi. I prefer Volumio myself.

Audivarna and Roon are different from Volumio. They are music file management programmes that also perform processing of the raw music files. Roon is longer established than Audivarna and much much more expensive. Audivarna is a one off purchase (around 70 quid after the free trial) whilst an annual license is required for Roon. I have tried both and whilst both are good there is no competition in terms of VfM.

Although you can run Volumio on the RPi/DIGI+ without Audivarna, the latter significantly improves the SQ of the former. The Windows version of Audivarna is still in beta and a bit buggy, but IIRC you use a MAC which is a more stable platform at present.

You will not be disappointed with the SEG/Dorado. It will extend the life of your Meridian 508.

Geoff

PS. I have just added a USB micro cable in the package.

[AJSki2fly]

It's lovely to be lovely! :)

Just a few points. Volumio is one of several Rpi operating systems for music playback. Others include Moode. Most use the same core linux software so SQ is similar. Just a question of which you prefer. The great thing is that all you need to do to test them out is to write the OS to another micro SD card and swap it for the one in the Rpi. I prefer Volumio myself.

Audivarna and Roon are different from Volumio. They are music file management programmes that also perform processing of the raw music files. Roon is longer established than Audivarna and much much more expensive. Audivarna is a one off purchase (around 70 quid after the free trial) whilst an annual license is required for Roon. I have tried both and whilst both are good there is no competition in terms of VfM.

Although you can run Volumio on the RPi/DIGI+ without Audivarna, the latter significantly improves the SQ of the former. The Windows version of Audivarna is still in beta and a bit buggy, but IIRC you use a MAC which is a more stable platform at present.

You will not be disappointed with the SEG/Dorado. It will extend the life of your Meridian 508.

Geoff

PS. I have just added a USB micro cable in the package.

Thanks Geoff that confirms that I was on the right track and had not got confused during my investigations. There is so much out there it is easy to get confused especially at my age, even though I’ve worked in IT since 83 I still find some stuff extraordinarily hard to get my head around.

Thanks very much for the usb - micro cable, and thank you for all your help.

Kind Regards

Adrian

[Jimbo]

Anyone tried upscaling in Audirvana then sending to a DAC in particular has anyone upscaled in Audirvana and sent to the ALLO BOSS?

[Bencat]

Does not get a mention here and many seem to either ignore it or possibly not like it . However if you are going down the Raspberry Pi route then please do not ignore the Logitech Media Server (LMS) . Will this was origianly run by Logtech for many years now the sever and its software has been open source and iun the hands of ethusiasts.

I Like the Interface and it is possible to up date this using add on apps that make the desk top show Album covers , Artist Details , Album Details and song lyrics . best of all this is free software and using picore player setting up and controlling the pi plus board is very easy .

The support you get from the forum and those in who control the software is top class and again all free . I accept that some other things like moode and Volumio make look a little more modern but often they do not give you anything that LMS does not also offer.

Best of all all you waste at looking at LMS is time and if you do not like it then no issue no money lost.

[Alp]

+1

I use LMS running on my NAS (it also runs on the RPi if you have your music on a USB disk or SSD) and Picoreplayer. There are plug-ins to allow you to use Spotify, Tidal, play Radio Paradise streams etc. There are also plug-ins (like C3-PO) that can do upscaling etc. that Audivarna can do. You can use Apps like iPeng or Squeeze Control run on your phone/tablet or you can access from your PC or Mac using a web-browser.

[struth]

Upscale In AV then on to a digi one then to my dac. Works well, but obviously it is limited to the levels of upscale by dac it goes to etc

[mikmas]

The support you get from the forum and those in who control the software is top class and again all free . I accept that some other things like moode and Volumio make look a little more modern but often they do not give you anything that LMS does not also offer.

Not knocking the LMS at all and I admire your enthusiasm for it :thumbsup:

.... but just to point out that both Moode and Volumio are also free, I don't use Volumio so won't comment on support, etc. but do know that Moode is well supported by it's author, Tim Curtis, and a good community of users on the Moode Forum and also DIYAudio Forum. Tim has been very responsive to the suggestions and needs of users throughout the development of Moode over the last few years and I have always found him a top class bloke in his replies to queries I had. :)

http://moodeaudio.org/forum/index.php

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pc-based/271811-moode-audio-player-raspberry-pi-1492.html