View Full Version : A little hifi story
Covenant
14-10-2018, 18:54
My job as a residential valuer takes me to five or six houses every day and I always have a look for what they use to play music. OVer the years I have come across the odd Rega, NAD, Marantz etc. Last week I visited a property in Warrington and was shown around by a gentleman in his 70's. I got to his living room, stopped and said "Wow-B & W". He had a pair of 8 series B & W floor standers in white with a Mark Levison amp and a Naim streamer.
Five minutes later he had me parked in his favouite chair listening to music and asking my opinion. Of couse, I had to tell him it was good but the reality was, I was underwelmed. The soundstage was weak and there was little separation of instruments. I asked him who advised him on equipment and he named a local dealer who was now trying to sell him bigger B & W speakers. The ones he has cost £16500. I asked him if he went on the forums and he said he had been on the Naim forum once or twice.
The moral of this story is that, for all their faults, the genuine unbiased advice you get on a forum will beat sales advice in a shop.
Interesting, Jerry... I concur with your views. Care to name the dealer in question?:)
Marco.
Beobloke
14-10-2018, 19:01
Did he like the sound? If so, then surely it’s his opinion that matters, not yours?!
Covenant
14-10-2018, 19:09
Did he like the sound? If so, then surely it’s his opinion that matters, not yours?!He didnt comment one way or another and I didnt want to go into details that may have upset him.
Marco
He did but there is no chance of me naming and shaming!
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Pigmy Pony
14-10-2018, 19:11
If it's Warrington, the dealers name probably rhymes with Slim Shady. I wouldn't be so quick to blame them though - the old feller probably went in with a shitload of cash and not much knowledge, and just bought the most expensive stuff he could afford. After being told 'I want that, that and that', the dealer would put them together for a demo and old guy just said 'Great, I'll take them'.
If he was happy to 'show off' his system, he's clearly happy with it all, and really that's all that matters.
Jac Hawk
14-10-2018, 19:11
If he had been a bit clever he would have taken the £16500 he spent on the speakers and looked down the 2nd hand route, I know from experience that good sound doesn’t have to be expensive, yes ultimately the more you spend the better the sound should be, but equally the individual components have to complement each other and the room needs to be set up to get the best out of the system. In this guys case I think a bit more time evaluating, for what he’s spent I would expect the dealer to let him trial in his own home before he takes the plunge.
If the gentleman in question did spend all that money, the dealer should have installed and set up the system in the customer's home. And if the dealer was reputable, he wouldn't have left until the system was sounding as best as it could.
Sounds to me as if the customer hasn't positioned the speakers optimally, or if he does perceive the failing is willing to do anything about it.
Covenant
14-10-2018, 19:25
If he had been a bit clever he would have taken the £16500 he spent on the speakers and looked down the 2nd hand route, I know from experience that good sound doesn’t have to be expensive, yes ultimately the more you spend the better the sound should be, but equally the individual components have to complement each other and the room needs to be set up to get the best out of the system. In this guys case I think a bit more time evaluating, for what he’s spent I would expect the dealer to let him trial in his own home before he takes the plunge.Absolutely. The dealer was also trying to sell him Nordost speaker cable to replace Chord.
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Covenant
14-10-2018, 19:27
If the gentleman in question did spend all that money, the dealer should have installed and set up the system in the customer's home. And if the dealer was reputable, he wouldn't have left until the system was sounding as best as it could.
Sounds to me as if the customer hasn't positioned the speakers optimally, or if he does perceive the failing is willing to do anything about it.The speakers were well positioned. The system didnt gel imho.
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Cabling might not suit especially speakers
He didnt comment one way or another and I didnt want to go into details that may have upset him.
Marco
He did but there is no chance of me naming and shaming!
Lol... Why not? That's one of the purposes of forums like this: to praise dealers when they get it right, and offer criticism when they don't. No-one's perfect. You never know, the dealer in question might spot this thread and learn from the experience!;)
Marco.
The speakers were well positioned. The system didnt gel imho.
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Then the dealer shouldn't have recommended that particular combination of equipment, if it didn't work well together.
If, as been hinted at, the dealer's initials were DB, then I would expect him not be someone who when approached by a potential customer with, say, £25K to spend, would simply cobble together a system whose costs add up to the same.
Pigmy Pony
14-10-2018, 19:36
Lol... Why not? That's one of the purposes of forums like this: to praise dealers when they get it right, and offer criticism when they don't. No-one's perfect. You never know, the dealer in question might spot this thread and learn from the experience!;)
Marci.
Marci? is that your new name? You finally had "the reassignment"?
Covenant
14-10-2018, 19:37
Still a big nope from me!
Lol... Why not? That's one of the purposes of forums like this: to praise dealers when they get it right, and offer criticism when they don't. No-one's perfect. You never know, the dealer in question might spot this thread and learn from the experience!;)
Marci.
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Has he threatened to shoot you or something?:D
;)
Anyway, not to worry. I'm sure it'll come out in the wash.... EVERY DEALER should have the balls/confidence in their business model to take justified criticism on the chin, and use it as a learning curve. If not, they don't deserve to be in business!
Marco.
Marci? is that your new name? You finally had "the reassignment"?
Haha... Well darling, it is Sunday!:booty::booty:
Twas a typo.
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
14-10-2018, 19:48
On my one visit to their shop, if it is indeed the name hinted at, I found them to be courteous and enthusiastic, and I came away thinking 'I could buy stuff from these people'.
I think it much more likely the old bloke just picked out the biggest/shiniest/impressive looking components, and wouldn't be swayed on his choices.
I think it much more likely the old bloke just picked out the biggest/shiniest/impressive looking components, and wouldn't be swayed on his choices.
If that's truly the case, then I do despair at the undiscerning nature/gullibility of some folk, who clearly have more money than sense:rolleyes:
Marco.
Wakefield Turntables
14-10-2018, 20:11
I remember being invited to listen to a £100K Naim+B&W system and being VERY underwhelmed. I stick with my cheap ATC's & Tannoy's at 20% the cost of the 16.5K jobbies.
Absolutely. The dealer was also trying to sell him Nordost speaker cable to replace Chord.
Rob dogs.
On paper should be a good system, maybe it is actually pretty good but still way behind what you have at home Jerry? These things are all relative to some extent anyway.
nonuffin
15-10-2018, 07:48
Absolutely. The dealer was also trying to sell him Nordost speaker cable to replace Chord.
Out of the frying pan and into the fire, as they say.
Covenant
15-10-2018, 08:05
My system cost buttons so should be way behind his. This is all subjective l know, but it really wasnt a captivating sound.
Rob dogs.
On paper should be a good system, maybe it is actually pretty good but still way behind what you have at home Jerry? These things are all relative to some extent anyway.
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MikeMusic
15-10-2018, 10:50
Last year I went to an Absolute Sound open day in a dealer close to where I live.
Nothing made an impression so I ferreted around in their CD rack for albums I knew quite well.
Played favourite tracks.
Hmm. Ok. Socks still on.
Got home
Dug out those albums
Quite definitely better and on a system a very, very long way short of the estimated £250,000 I had been listening to.
Most of this system provided by Tony, Coherent of this parish.
Twas forums that led me away from my Linn/naim system.
Sound quality is now stunning
My system cost buttons so should be way behind his. This is all subjective l know, but it really wasnt a captivating sound.
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You can't really take cost as any arbiter. My system cost less than the speaker cables on the Coherent system I heard at a show last summer but it's still better in pretty much every respect. And there were systems there that were much worse than the Coherent, which was one of the better ones in fact. The Linn system for example was so poor it was unlistenable.
Thank you Martin high praise indeed for the man on the silver mountain :)
jandl100
15-10-2018, 16:31
.... gets home from dem and prefers own carefully selected system.
Surprise !!!!
Well, you chose it, so it's not surprising you like it.
Someone else might think it's a pile of poo. ;)
.... gets home from dem and prefers own carefully selected system.
Surprise !!!!
Well, you chose it, so it's not surprising you like it.
Someone else might think it's a pile of poo. ;)
Well there may be something to that. Mind you at the same show there was a Lampizator/Diaphason system that blew mine into the weeds.
My system cost buttons so should be way behind his.
Can anyone, including you Jerry, see the flaw in that way of thinking?;)
Marco.
paulf-2007
15-10-2018, 19:20
If the gentleman in question did spend all that money, the dealer should have installed and set up the system in the customer's home. And if the dealer was reputable, he wouldn't have left until the system was sounding as best as it could.
Sounds to me as if the customer hasn't positioned the speakers optimally, or if he does perceive the failing is willing to do anything about it.
Absolutely. The dealer was also trying to sell him Nordost speaker cable to replace Chord.
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It's probably those foo cables that are the problem, Nordost wouldn't make any difference either. Good old twin and earth is all that's needed
Mike Reed
15-10-2018, 19:31
I remember being invited to listen to a £100K Naim+B&W system and being VERY underwhelmed. I stick with my cheap ATC's & Tannoy's at 20% the cost of the 16.5K jobbies.
I remember having an upmarket dem. at Grahams (n'th London) a couple of decades ago. Top Naim plus big Nautilus. My friend and I came to a fairly quick conclusion and conveyed our thoughts to the salesman. Naim and B & W don't have a good rep. as bedfellows, or at least, didn't.
Pigmy Pony
15-10-2018, 19:46
I heard a load of Naim stuff a few years ago at the Renaissance Hotel in Manchester. No Idea what models but it was a stack of about 10 similar looking black boxes into a pair of them big Ovator speakers. And the room was the size of most people's downstairs. Tbh I found the B&W/Rotel stuff down the hall more enjoyable.
Maybe expectations play a part in how it sounds to us. Bit like going to see a new film at the cinema - it gats rave reviews, but when you see it you are disappointed. If you delay seeing it until after the rest of the public have had their disappointment, you find yourself pleasantly surprised.
Jac Hawk
18-10-2018, 20:35
HiFi is very subjective, i was talking to one of our Audio engineers today, he basically said it's a black art with a lot more than just the equipment influencing the end product.
Light Dependant Resistor
18-10-2018, 21:56
HiFi is very subjective, i was talking to one of our Audio engineers today, he basically said it's a black art with a lot more than just the equipment influencing the end product.
Could we say circuitry and how it is configured within the equipment ?. Whilst acknowledging room dimensions and furnishings are also responsible to how we hear,
it is, and I think will always remain more so, the deployment of how within the actual equipment, how actual electronics parts are used.
Pigmy Pony
19-10-2018, 06:09
Could we say circuitry and how it is configured within the equipment ?. Whilst acknowledging room dimensions and furnishings are also responsible to how we hear,
it is, and I think will always remain more so, the deployment of how within the actual equipment, how actual electronics parts are used.
I suppose so, but what makes it such a mystery (and so enjoyable) is that there are so many variables at play (and the listener is one of those variables) that there can never be a "right" answer. One size definitely does not fit all.
If you had one hundred people listen to the same music on the same set up, even if they all listened separately and sat in the same position, no two people are going to hear the same thing, or at least perceive what they hear as enjoyable.
If it were any different, hi fi as an industry would collapse overnight. And we wouldn't have this wonderful hobby.
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