Any Bluesound users?

[mikmas]

Been toying with the idea of a ripper/streamer for some time now and wondered if there are any Bluesound users who can give an informed opinion on the performance of their gear.

I was initially drawn to the Innous Zen Mini but was put off by it's limited connections which seems to be addressed (quite substantially) by the Bluesound Vault 2i. Admittedly it is about £300 dearer so should offer more, but to my mind, and for my uses, it has the bare minimum that I would find acceptable - unfortunately the Zen Mini comes nowhere near and the dearer models from Innous don't seem to offer much that would counter that.

http://www.bluesound.com/products/vault-2i/

[montesquieu]

Been toying with the idea of a ripper/streamer for some time now and wondered if there are any Bluesound users who can give an informed opinion on the performance of their gear.

I was initially drawn to the Innous Zen Mini but was put off by it's limited connections which seems to be addressed (quite substantially) by the Bluesound Vault 2i. Admittedly it is about £300 dearer so should offer more, but to my mind, and for my uses, it has the bare minimum that I would find acceptable - unfortunately the Zen Mini comes nowhere near and the dearer models from Innous don't seem to offer much that would counter that.

http://www.bluesound.com/products/vault-2i/

Is it possible to back these things up to the Cloud using some kind of enterprise grade tool? I have a horror of spending an age acquiring/ripping material only to find either the disk crashes and it all gets lost, or files progressively become unplayable due to bit rot. (Or it gets nicked).

Obviously you can do this with a custom device of some kind (RAID5 array will protect from a disk crash, and there are cloud synchronisation tools though not necessarily cheap), but is it possible to do this with a proprietary device like this?

[mikmas]

Is it possible to back these things up to the Cloud using some kind of enterprise grade tool? I have a horror of spending an age acquiring/ripping material only to find either the disk crashes and it all gets lost, or files progressively become unplayable due to bit rot. (Or it gets nicked).

Obviously you can do this with a custom device of some kind (RAID5 array will protect from a disk crash, and there are cloud synchronisation tools though not necessarily cheap), but is it possible to do this with a proprietary device like this?

Precisely the kind of question I am asking myself - along with some trepidation using a proprietary OS with what is essentially a niche product. That's why it would be interesting to get more views/reviews from those who have already taken the plunge.
In this case I am primarily interested in existing Bluesound users but also welcome posts about other equivalent systems/devices (as long as it doesn't involve RPi derivatives...already too much knowledge on that score)

[Manicatel]

I’ve played about with Bluesound stuff quite a bit. In general, the quality of the Node2, Vault2, (now with the i suffix for the new models) is pretty strong. The app is decent & the SQ is more than respectable.
You can back up a vault using an external usb HD.
There’s a Bluesound forum/ user site for more info.
With the i versions having just been launched, I’d imagine there must be some ex demo vault2’s for sale at a very decent price.

[mikmas]

I’ve played about with Bluesound stuff quite a bit. In general, the quality of the Node2, Vault2, (now with the i suffix for the new models) is pretty strong. The app is decent & the SQ is more than respectable.
You can back up a vault using an external usb HD.
There’s a Bluesound forum/ user site for more info.
With the i versions having just been launched, I’d imagine there must be some ex demo vault2’s for sale at a very decent price.

Thanks for the info Matt - I have looked at the specs for both the Vault 2 and the Vault 2i and to be honest I am really pushed to find a difference .. even in looks :scratch:
So yes, keeping an eye on the price of the older model could pay dividends ... already £100 cheaper at Superfi ....

[mikmas]

Tracked down the differences finally - in an article on WhatHiFi site:

"Updated features across the board include Alexa Voice Control, Apple AirPlay 2 compatibility and dual band Wi-Fi ... "

None of which really interest me, so .....

[Manicatel]

Only sound quality upgrade ‘may’ be due to the board being redesigned with the digital side apparently further away from the power/ noisy stuff. That & the fact that it’s now dual band WiFi which may improve things if you’re not wiring it to your router.
The other stuff is convenience orientated rather than sound quality based upgrades.

[Sherwood]

Is it possible to back these things up to the Cloud using some kind of enterprise grade tool? I have a horror of spending an age acquiring/ripping material only to find either the disk crashes and it all gets lost, or files progressively become unplayable due to bit rot. (Or it gets nicked).

Obviously you can do this with a custom device of some kind (RAID5 array will protect from a disk crash, and there are cloud synchronisation tools though not necessarily cheap), but is it possible to do this with a proprietary device like this?

A RAID setup is good but you still have all your files in one place. I have multiple backups on WD Passport drives. The latest 4tb usb drives are just over a hundred quid these days. Keep them in different places to protect against fire or theft.

Geoff

[montesquieu]

A RAID setup is good but you still have all your files in one place. I have multiple backups on WD Passport drives. The latest 4tb usb drives are just over a hundred quid these days. Keep them in different places to protect against fire or theft.

Geoff

My preference is to have everything off-site - hence asking about a Cloud option.

[Sherwood]

My preference is to have everything off-site - hence asking about a Cloud option.

Not sure that the Cloud is practical for very large libraries of 4tb or thereabouts. Cost is an issue too!

A drive left at a mate's house is offsite too!

Geoff

[montesquieu]

Not sure that the Cloud is practical for very large libraries of 4tb or thereabouts. Cost is an issue too!

A drive left at a mate's house is offsite too!

Geoff

Well I'd be looking at 1TB which is feasible ... I just don't like the faff factor of having to plug stuff. Background replication of the local drive has to be the way to go.

[Sherwood]

Well I'd be looking at 1TB which is feasible ... I just don't like the faff factor of having to plug stuff. Background replication of the local drive has to be the way to go.

I find this app invaluable in keeping backups synchronised. I run it every few months to add files I have ripped in the interim.

https://freefilesync.org/

Geoff

[montesquieu]

I find this app invaluable in keeping backups synchronised. I run it every few months to add files I have ripped in the interim.

https://freefilesync.org/

Geoff

I use Apple's Time Machine to do a weekly back up to a local 1TB drive attached to my router, which is the same thing really. What I'm interested in is the facility to back up one of these black boxes to off-site, probably cloud-based storage so I don't need to worry about any issues of local broken (or stolen) drives.

[Sherwood]

I use Apple's Time Machine to do a weekly back up to a local 1TB drive attached to my router, which is the same thing really. What I'm interested in is the facility to back up one of these black boxes to off-site, probably cloud-based storage so I don't need to worry about any issues of local broken (or stolen) drives.

There are several technical solutions to what you are considering, not least Google Play. However, they are quite pricey for the amount of storage you are looking for. Typically around 100 quid or more per year. This is one option that I have heard positive things about. https://mega.nz/

Geoff

[montesquieu]

Thanks. Looks good but the trick would be in the backup interface managing the synch. Need to look into that.

[mikmas]

I use Apple's Time Machine to do a weekly back up to a local 1TB drive attached to my router, which is the same thing really. What I'm interested in is the facility to back up one of these black boxes to off-site, probably cloud-based storage so I don't need to worry about any issues of local broken (or stolen) drives.

There is a page from Bluesound detailing how to perform a backup ... worth noting that their OS uses the Linux ext4 format for data storage which could present problems using a cloud based solution:

https://support1.bluesound.com/hc/en-us/articles/201846073-How-do-I-Backup-the-Music-on-my-Vault-Backup-Music-Library-

This is possibly a deal breaker for me as, from what I can gather, ext4 is unreadable on Mac or Windows. :(
(although I understand the Vault 2 can be used as a NAS and music files/folders can be transferred this way)

[simon g]

This is possibly a deal breaker for me as, from what I can gather, ext4 is unreadable on Mac or Windows. :(
(although I understand the Vault 2 can be used as a NAS and music files/folders can be transferred this way)

Don't get hung up on that! I've been using a Bluesound Vault for many years. My comments:

Once attached to your network (ethernet best), then drive can be seen on your network by Windows and Mac and files can be transferred easily to and from the Vault (if you transfer music files, you have to re-index the Vault before being able to play them back; this is easy to do in the app.

The app is very good. One of, if not the, best. Don't underestimate this. A good app that connects easily and consistently is an important part of using this type of product (I've used many)

Sound quality via the analogue outputs is pretty good. I use the optical digital out to my Audionet though. Side note here: the same Tidal track played back via the Audionet built in network card sounds better than than via the optical out from the Vault. Not all streamers are quite equal, but the Vault is certainly more than good enough. Plus, the Audionet is a very expensive amp.DAC/streamer.

If you use Tidal then integration is excellent. It will also allow you a full unfold MQA through the analogue outputs and partial unfold via the digital outputs, if this has value to you.

It will not act as a UpNP server. So, you always have to access the Vault and output a signal from it, either analogue or digital.

USB digital out is not available; coax and optical only.

The Vault really is a very easy to operate, nicely put together bit of kit. The app and firmware are constantly being updated and improved. You really don't need to know anything about networking or any techie stuff at all. For most, it's simply a matter of connecting to your network, installing the app on your iPad (or whatever), providing Tidal, etc credentials (if used), then you can start ripping and importing.

The app will allow you to back up to an external HDD. (which you could then copy to another drive, for off site storage, if required)

SSSAV have deals on ex display Vault 2s, with full warranty, at £750.

[mikmas]

SSSAV have deals on ex display Vault 2s, with full warranty, at £750.

Many thanks for the copious advice Simon - much appreciated :)
The lack of USB out is not a big deal for me - well countered by the optical input which I can put to good use.

I am presuming by 'SSSAV' you mean these guys?
http://www.simplysoundandvision.co.uk/bluesound/bluesound__the_full_range/11070_0c.html

I think I will indeed keep an eye out for discounted or used Vault 2 coming up over the next few weeks - £750 would be quite a bargain ;)

[Manicatel]

SSAV is usually “Sevenoaks sound and vision”. They are a major Bluesound dealer.
Don’t hang around for too long, as at their price, they won’t be on the shelves for long. I’d snap up a black one ASAP if I were you.
The white finish on them has a bit of a strange texture to it & ive seen one or two of them looking a bit grubby after a while.

[montesquieu]

Don't get hung up on that! I've been using a Bluesound Vault for many years. My comments:

Once attached to your network (ethernet best), then drive can be seen on your network by Windows and Mac and files can be transferred easily to and from the Vault (if you transfer music files, you have to re-index the Vault before being able to play them back; this is easy to do in the app.

The app is very good. One of, if not the, best. Don't underestimate this. A good app that connects easily and consistently is an important part of using this type of product (I've used many)

Sound quality via the analogue outputs is pretty good. I use the optical digital out to my Audionet though. Side note here: the same Tidal track played back via the Audionet built in network card sounds better than than via the optical out from the Vault. Not all streamers are quite equal, but the Vault is certainly more than good enough. Plus, the Audionet is a very expensive amp.DAC/streamer.

If you use Tidal then integration is excellent. It will also allow you a full unfold MQA through the analogue outputs and partial unfold via the digital outputs, if this has value to you.

It will not act as a UpNP server. So, you always have to access the Vault and output a signal from it, either analogue or digital.

USB digital out is not available; coax and optical only.

The Vault really is a very easy to operate, nicely put together bit of kit. The app and firmware are constantly being updated and improved. You really don't need to know anything about networking or any techie stuff at all. For most, it's simply a matter of connecting to your network, installing the app on your iPad (or whatever), providing Tidal, etc credentials (if used), then you can start ripping and importing.

The app will allow you to back up to an external HDD. (which you could then copy to another drive, for off site storage, if required)

SSSAV have deals on ex display Vault 2s, with full warranty, at £750.


Just to clarify - what would I have to do to get this pointing out and and automatically replicating to cloud storge?

[simon g]

Just to clarify - what would I have to do to get this pointing out and and automatically replicating to cloud storge?

You can't do this automatically from the Bluesound app. However, the Vault does appear as a drive on your network, so presumably you could use some sort of back up software and designate your Cloud drive as the destination drive?

I don't do this, as it would take ages to upload that amount of data over the 'net, even with my fast fibre connection. I use a HDD attached to the Vault and use the App to back up after a few new albums are ripped. I then back up that HDD sporadically to a further drive, which I keep in a fire safe. To be frank, I don't really rip many albums these days as I use Tidal quite extensively. I've also returned to CDs, as ultimately they sound better via a modified CXC in to my Audionet, than the same track via Tidal and its optical out to the (same DAC in the ) Audionet. Plus I do like using the physical media and I have well over 2000 CDs to keep me going, plus more arriving on a regular basis!

[montesquieu]

You can't do this automatically from the Bluesound app. However, the Vault does appear as a drive on your network, so presumably you could use some sort of back up software and designate your Cloud drive as the destination drive?

I don't do this, as it would take ages to upload that amount of data over the 'net, even with my fast fibre connection. I use a HDD attached to the Vault and use the App to back up after a few new albums are ripped. I then back up that HDD sporadically to a further drive, which I keep in a fire safe. To be frank, I don't really rip many albums these days as I use Tidal quite extensively. I've also returned to CDs, as ultimately they sound better via a modified CXC in to my Audionet, than the same track via Tidal and its optical out to the (same DAC in the ) Audionet. Plus I do like using the physical media and I have well over 2000 CDs to keep me going, plus more arriving on a regular basis!

Main upload is only one-time, then incremental changes wouldn't take much bandwidth.

Ideally I'm waiting for a solution that incorporates the necessary tools to sync with online storage. I have always found local backup hard drives a faff. My work files are all automatically sync'd and I also sync important personal files to iCloud, that's not the right solution for half a gig or more of media files though.

I have about 4000 LPs, 1500+ CDs and a modest amount of ripped content (currently rather less than 500 GB). I can't see myself ripping the CDs in any systematic way. The AN CDT2/II is an excellent transport.

I use spotify to identify vinyl (mainly s/h) to track down, occasionally CDs if it's newer stuff. Generally speaking if it gets more than half a dozen listens I would buy the physical media.

[mikmas]

Well .... been giving it a lot of thought and spent some time deliberating the options (including the reduced price offerings) and looking into the various price plans for streaming services and in the end have decided not to bother - for the moment at least. At some point I need to have a listen to a few of the recommended streamers and the various streams they facilitate 'in the flesh' to decide whether there is any actual upgrade involved or simply a different (and pricier) method of achieving the same result as what I currently have.

In the meantime I nipped onto eBay and picked up a trio of CDs I've been meaning to buy for while - for a total outlay of £7 ... I will probably listen to them at full CD resolution, via a CD player ;)

Many thanks to those who offered advice and help based on their own experiences - really very much appreciated :)

[twotone]

Well .... been giving it a lot of thought and spent some time deliberating the options (including the reduced price offerings) and looking into the various price plans for streaming services and in the end have decided not to bother - for the moment at least. At some point I need to have a listen to a few of the recommended streamers and the various streams they facilitate 'in the flesh' to decide whether there is any actual upgrade involved or simply a different (and pricier) method of achieving the same result as what I currently have.

In the meantime I nipped onto eBay and picked up a trio of CDs I've been meaning to buy for while - for a total outlay of £7 ... I will probably listen to them at full CD resolution, via a CD player ;)

Many thanks to those who offered advice and help based on their own experiences - really very much appreciated :)

Mike try to pick up a Denon DNP 720-AE, they usually go for about £50 now SH, I bought one new about four years ago for £200 and they are excellent value for money, bit of a faff to set up if I'm being honest but they are particularly good with Stan's SEG.

I use it to stream internet radio and it has decent FM/AM tuners too but it will give you a flavour of how good streaming can be, it does airplay too BTW so you can airplay anything on your phone or laptop to it if you have an iPhone/ MacBook pro etc (BBC radio Iplayer etc or music on your phone) but there's no subscription services.

Tony