Turntable Aquisition

[gazcarts]

Hi all,

It has been a little while since I last posted, but I've been watching the forum with interest, particularly regarding Technics modifications.

I've been toying with the idea of buying an older DD turntable for sometime now, ideally one with auto return for when I nod off during listening! Well today my latest acquisition arrived; an Akai AP-306C. Judging by the few posts I can find about these decks, they are as rare as rocking horse poo, but this appears to be the top of the line deck from Akai, who of course are better known for tape decks!

The deck cost about 50 quid, and apart from needing a good clean is in excellent condition. Unfortunately, the Rega R100 cartridge that came with it appears to have a damaged stylus, as I get distortion out of the left channel, regardless of anti-skating setting and VTF. Therefore, for now, I've had to take the Dynavector 10x5 off my Technics.

Sound-wise, it's bloody good for an unmoddified deck. I'm unable to do side by side tests with the Technics, but it sounds very good to my ears.

My question is this. Do I get a replacement stylus for the R100 (assuming it is the stylus that is damaged) or do I get an entirely new cartridge? If it's the latter, what would people recommend? I don't really want to spend over £100 by the way; I've already spent far too much on this hobby!

[hifi_dave]

There is no Rega replacement stylus for the R100. That cartridge was discontinued around 25 years ago. The nearest equivalent Rega cartridge is the Bias-2 at £55.

[gazcarts]

There is no Rega replacement stylus for the R100. That cartridge was discontinued around 25 years ago. The nearest equivalent Rega cartridge is the Bias-2 at £55.

Thanks Dave. I googled it and there is someone selling replacement styli for £30, assuming they have them in stock of course :)

[DSJR]

Is that Parlophone LP spinning away the one I think it is??? :D

The R100 was of its time and related to the A&R E77 as I recall. Severely bass up-treble down by +/- 3db in a straight line as I recall from a Stan Curtis test. We loved it at the time, but this was before CD showed how coloured and tonally wrong some cartridges were.

The Bias-2 is *Rega's* answer, but in sound I'd personally suggest the two Sumiko mm's (Oyster & Pearl) as spiritually descended..

The pic shows either a Dynavector 10X or 20A and these, together with the Sumiko BPS and Blackbird, are where I'd be looking, as well as a decent support for this deck, as like most of these, it'll be vibration and feedback sensitive I'll wager.....

Enjoy...

P.S. I should read the OP properly regarding cartridge choice - I don't know the current Nagaoka's that Marco loves so much and the Stanton 681EEE III may be too highly compliant for the arm, but the perennial Ortofons (and 520mk2) should be fine, as well as the Denon DL110, which can still be got for not much more than a ton after being £70 for decades.....!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[gazcarts]

Is that Parlophone LP spinning away the one I think it is??? :D

The R100 was of its time and related to the A&R E77 as I recall. Severely bass up-treble down by +/- 3db in a straight line as I recall from a Stan Curtis test. We loved it at the time, but this was before CD showed how coloured and tonally wrong some cartridges were.

The Bias-2 is *Rega's* answer, but in sound I'd personally suggest the two Sumiko mm's (Oyster & Pearl) as spiritually descended..

The pic shows either a Dynavector 10X or 20A and these, together with the Sumiko BPS and Blackbird, are where I'd be looking, as well as a decent support for this deck, as like most of these, it'll be vibration and feedback sensitive I'll wager.....

Enjoy...

The LP is Thomas Dolby's "The Flat Earth". The first track "Dissidents" is such a wonderfully produced track and sounds awesome on both the Technics and the Akai.

The cartridge is my Dynavector 10x5, taken off the Technics. A bit expensive to buy another one of those; are you able to recommend something cheaper?

I have been toying with the idea of putting the sorbothane feet off the Technics on the Akai, but the standard feet seem to have some sort of vibration absorbing properties anyway. The platter rings like a bell, but I'm experimenting with different mats at the moment. It actually sounds ok with the standard mat, but I'm sure that can be improved on.

[DSJR]

"Dissidents?" Thought so! :D

I'm planning on getting the platter outer "belt" from ebay (SRM Tech?) which is nice and wide and should fit your Akai as well as the TD125.

Mats? As the spindle isn't very long, I'd probably go straight for a herbies style mat the same thickness as the Akai one. A cheap Spacemat may not have enough to keep platter ringing down enough. Cork mats cost £50 too and I can't comment either..

Good luck :)

[The Grand Wazoo]

I had an R100 once. It was ok but really rather unspectacular. It was nadgered by a gent who had been brainwashed by Linn that you have to tighten headshell bolts up with extreme prejudice. The plastic lugs collapsed.

I have to thank him really, it gave me a good reason for changing it.

[DSJR]

The R100 sounded swell in the R200 and Linn LVV arms. It needed a Heybrook HB1 or Linn speaker to sound good. These systems sounded awful with anything "neutral," but I was too "under the influence" to care back then

[gazcarts]

"Dissidents?" Thought so! :D

I'm planning on getting the platter outer "belt" from ebay (SRM Tech?) which is nice and wide and should fit your Akai as well as the TD125.

Mats? As the spindle isn't very long, I'd probably go straight for a herbies style mat the same thickness as the Akai one. A cheap Spacemat may not have enough to keep platter ringing down enough. Cork mats cost £50 too and I can't comment either..

Good luck :)

I'm impressed that you can identify an LP just from a blur of colour! :)

As for mats, I've currently got the SRM Silicon mat on the platter with the Inspire hifi acri mat on top of that. Sounds good but can't decide if it's better than the standard rubber mat on its own or the silicon mat on its own or the acri mat on its own! :brickwall:

[hifi_dave]

Thanks Dave. I googled it and there is someone selling replacement styli for £30, assuming they have them in stock of course :)

I wouldn't recommend that. You've no guarantee that the 'replacement' is anything like the original which,(as I said) was discontinued many, many years ago. Anyway, there are better cartridges available now to put your money on.

[gazcarts]

I wouldn't recommend that. You've no guarantee that the 'replacement' is anything like the original which,(as I said) was discontinued many, many years ago. Anyway, there are better cartridges available now to put your money on.

What would you recommend Dave?

Cheers

[hifi_dave]

Depends on your budget but one of those Sumiko's that DSJR recommended would be a good start. Other than that, the Ortofon 2M Red or Blue are also very good.

[gazcarts]

Depends on your budget but one of those Sumiko's that DSJR recommended would be a good start. Other than that, the Ortofon 2M Red or Blue are also very good.

Thanks Dave. I'll look out for those.

Well I've settled for the SRM/Tech Silicon mat on its own for now. I'm really liking the sound from the TT. Don't think it's as deep a soundstage as the Technics, or the bass is as low and firm, but still a very enjoyable and musical sound. Now if only I could find a way of running them side by side. Unless that Tag PPA20 comes up on Ebay (at a sensible price!) I'll only be able to use them one at a time.

Incidentally, I think the platter is wider on the Akai, so all mats fit inside the lip on this one, unlike the Technics.

[Hypnotoad]

Grado Gold!

[DSJR]

Cheaper Grado's up to the Gold are so "refined" all the treble disappears - they make the Rega Elys sound lively..... :lol:

The AT120e is a good all-rounder and the body will take the better styli from this range (130 etc).

it's a difficult price range for cartridges this. Where there used to be loads to choose from, the mid range is now £100 - £300

[DSJR]

P.S. HiFi Choice tested the 206C deck and were a bit "iffy" about it. The arm, which looks the same as yours, was found to be a bit resonant, although the ADC style headshell (or a Sumiko) will fix some of not all of it. If the arm could be sent to Johnnie7 at Audio Origami, the remainder would be sorted (damping inside the tube and re-wiring) and the space and depth would be restored. As the platters are different, it's possible the motor unit was as well. Isolation wasn't too hot either, so some Foculpods or similar would be the order of the day as well...

No wonder the rest of us used Rega's and smiled smugly... :ner:

[gazcarts]

P.S. HiFi Choice tested the 206C deck and were a bit "iffy" about it. The arm, which looks the same as yours, was found to be a bit resonant, although the ADC style headshell (or a Sumiko) will fix some of not all of it. If the arm could be sent to Johnnie7 at Audio Origami, the remainder would be sorted (damping inside the tube and re-wiring) and the space and depth would be restored. As the platters are different, it's possible the motor unit was as well. Isolation wasn't too hot either, so some Foculpods or similar would be the order of the day as well...

No wonder the rest of us used Rega's and smiled smugly... :ner:

Thanks Dave, but for the price I'm not complaining. I've no intention of any further tweaks or upgrades, other than the cartridge. The Technics is there for that! :)

Another alternative is to leave the Dynavector on the Akai and get something else for the Jelco OEM arm (SA-250ST) on the Technics?

[DSJR]

THAT'S the way to go I reckon. I suggest either an AT33PTG (low output) or a Sumiko Blackbird (more refined high output MC than the 10X and BPS, but skeletal construction)..

[Hypnotoad]

THAT'S the way to go I reckon. I suggest either an AT33PTG (low output) or a Sumiko Blackbird (more refined high output MC than the 10X and BPS, but skeletal construction)..

The Sumiko Blackbird is a fine cartridge, made by the same people who make my ProJect Perspective, but with a U.S. retail of $900.00 how is that going to fit in his budget?

Also to say about Grado carts up to the Gold (you really mean the Silver & the Gold as they are exactly the same cart) "all the treble disappears" is uniformed, no offense intended.

They may have some roll off but have a nice mellow sound to them and they do work well in turntables with DC motors.

I can't understand why more people don't buy Benz carts, to me they are superb and can be found in low, medium and high output.

I was going to go for a Blackbird but it was out of my price range then, I considered the Dynavector but some had complained about suspension problems, I went for the Benz and never looked back.

[DSJR]

Nice and mellow reads as a 5db+ drop in treble response.

Mellow to you, boring and bland to me guv I'm afraid... When they were better priced, I preferred the Goldrings myself (our boss was a Grado fan so we always had both to compare).

As for budget, the OP was considering using the 10X on the Akai in future, so I thought I'd suggest some alternative "upgrades?" for the Techie, that's all.

[Hypnotoad]

Nice and mellow reads as a 5db+ drop in treble response.

Mellow to you, boring and bland to me guv I'm afraid... When they were better priced, I preferred the Goldrings myself (our boss was a Grado fan so we always had both to compare).

As for budget, the OP was considering using the 10X on the Akai in future, so I thought I'd suggest some alternative "upgrades?" for the Techie, that's all.

I have a Grado Gold and Blue also a Goldring 1012 GX, I like the Blue for older recordings it seems to take the edge of them. The Gold still has that classic Grado sound with more top end, detail and sound stage. It's not my number one cart though.

The Goldring is in the drawer as it is a beast on surface noise, compared to the Grado's and my Benz Ace it makes records sound like Edison Cylinders, plenty of detail and sound stage though but couldn't stand it in any of my systems.

[DSJR]

I know what you mean... :lol:

If you ever wish to try it again, lower the arm at the back a tad. It seems to help a bit...

Anyone tried the new Goldrings? The bodies look more substantial and cosseting....

[hifi_dave]

They look good - unfortunately, they are no better than the old models...:doh:

[Joe]

The R100 sounded swell in the R200 and Linn LVV arms.

I had an R100 in an LVV arm on (shock, horror) an AR turntable. It seemed a bit lacking in 'oomph' IIRC. I gave away the LVV some years back; they go for a fair bit on eBay these days!

[The Grand Wazoo]

Funny because my R100 was on an LVX & later my Zeta on an AR turntable

[gazcarts]

Thanks for the recommendations guys.

I'm watching an Ortofon 2M Blue and a Denon DL-110 on Ebay at the moment. I've also seen the Nagaoka MP-110, which looks interesting. Does anyone have any experience of the MP-110? Would it suit the Akai?

Many thanks

[gazcarts]

Just a quick update on the Akai AP-306C.

I haven't bought another cartridge as of yet as I'm waiting to see if anyone knows about the Nagaoka mentioned in my earlier post. (unfortunately I missed the Ortofon as I was out when the auction ended - it went for £79!).

I'm doing some listening comparisons between the Akai and my Tag CD transport and I'm seriously impressed. Other than fitting the Dynavector 10x5, the only thing I've changed is the standard mat for an SRM/Tech Silicon mat. The Akai sounds virtually identical to the Tag, with slightly deeper bass. The detail, soundstage etc are all virtually indistiguishable when I switch between the CD and LP playing at the same time. Bearing in mind the fact the Tag transport cost about £1100 when new and I paid £50 for the Akai, I think this is astounding!

I just need to find a way of doing a fair comparison with the Technics but, without changing the cartridge each time, this is impossible.

Regards

[gazcarts]

Well, I managed to get a used Herbie's Audio Lab Mat on Ebay for a bargain price; not much to look at and to be honest I don't notice any difference from the SRM/Tech Silicon mat which cost me £20 on Ebay. I've decided to use the Herbie's Mat on top of the SRM mat.

Today I also received the Vinyl Passion Dust Buster, again purchased on Ebay. This really does work and is so much better than brushing the stylus; the stylus is left spotless and the sound is much improved.

I've also removed the standard Akai feet and fitted the sorbothane ones I used on the Technics. The Akai ones must have been doing a very good job as I can't really detect a difference. The Akai feet are quite an interesting design, not just solid with a bit of rubber on the bottom. They sort of have their own built-in rubber suspension.

Anyway, the Akai sounds superb. So good in fact, I'm beginning to question the need for keeping the Technics. I'll do a comparison once I receive the Croft Acoustics RIAA, but the only fair way to do it will be to swap the Dynavector from one TT to the other, which obviously wont be quick. Such a shame the arm on the Technics doesn't have changeable headshells :)

As for the tonearm being "iffy", quite a few posts on other forums say it's a good tonearm, and the performance I'm getting from this 30 year old deck seems to support that. I'm sure it wouldn't compare to a fully modded Techie, but it still sounds very good to me.

I'm reluctant to throw more money at the Technics because then I'd probably start questioning the quality of the other components in my system, and I really don't want to go down that road!

Best wishes

[DSJR]

Some of the fitted tonearms on these decks were pretty good tbh, only the isolation of the complete deck really being the issue coupled with the hollow sound-box plinths many of them were lumbered with.