To Damp or To Brace that is Question

[Pepperamip]

Well it's not just the question but it's a start!

My Klipsch are fairly big ugly rectangular black boxes and from what I've read they have very little of either of the things mentioned in the title. Just to confirm this I'll be unscrewing one of the woofers tonight to see exactly what lies beneath.

So if it's as I expect (not much at all apart from a gaping void) I'm thinking of adding some minimal bracing and damping material. My mind tells me that front to back bracing must be the place to start, possibly above and below the woofer but should I use side to side bracing in conjuction and all glued together? I don't think top to bottom is possible with only the small woofer hole available for access.

What seems to be more important to some is the damping and I'd love to hear what people have found to be the best material to use as an internal lining and also a filler.

I'll report back tonight with exactly what is inside the cabs now but I'm pretty sure they are factory standard.

[Stratmangler]

Don't do anything that you can't reverse.
And take pics of things before you start, so at least you'll have a photographic reference for putting things back in the right place if you make a horlicks of things, and you don't like the way they sound after you've improved them :)

[Pepperamip]

Chris is sounds like you've had a bad experience with this, I don't like the sound of that :o I'm mindful of the old adage what you think you are doing to improve things doesn't always end up that way.

If I can get the braces to a length where they just wedge in nicley I shouldn't have to use glue at all so that would be my much preferred way of doing it.

[Pigmy Pony]

Silicone of the type used in bathrooms or for sealing upvc windows would be sticky enough for the braces, but if you wanted to remove they will unstick easily enough. But you would need to leave for a day to stick. So only permanent if you want it to be.

[Yomanze]

You could glue some steel plates inside i.e mass damping. A popular technique with Royd speakers and some DIYers on a forum that cannot be named. :P

[Pepperamip]

Sealant along the contact edges of the braces is a good idea, I would've used PVA glue and then there would've been no going back.

Not come across steel plate damping, I'll look into that.

Has anyone played around with different damping materials - fibreglass insulation, accoustic tiles...etc?

[Pigmy Pony]

Foam would probably be a good, unmessy choice. I mean spongy foam, not the expanding stuff that goes everywhere.

[Pepperamip]

Foam would probably be a good, unmessy choice. I mean spongy foam, not the expanding stuff that goes everywhere.

I like the sound of cut up egg crate memory foam bed topper. Could do both speakers with the one sheet then.

[Frazeur1]

I assume maybe you have checked various forums etc. to see what others may have done with theirs, and to what effect? Check out Audiokarma forum, they have a Kilipsch corner sub forum there, you might ask some questions there before you delve into it? Then again, sometimes it is more fun to experiment yourself and hear for yourself what various things come about. The main thing is have fun with it!

[Stratmangler]

Chris is sounds like you've had a bad experience with this, I don't like the sound of that :o I'm mindful of the old adage what you think you are doing to improve things doesn't always end up that way.

If I can get the braces to a length where they just wedge in nicley I shouldn't have to use glue at all so that would be my much preferred way of doing it.

I have no experience of what you're trying to do.
I do however find myself in situations where I could spend an age taking copious notes of something I need to disconnect or dismantle, and a set of photos saves all the tedious note taking.
It makes putting stuff back the way it was a lot more straightforward if the patient doesn't get any better.

I would think that Klipsch have considered enclosure flexing when they came up with the design.
Bracing it might not be a positive thing to do.
As far as damping and materials are concerned, the quantity, and where it is placed, is usually arrived at by experimentation and listening to the result.

[Pepperamip]

You are quite right bracing might not make them sound better but my models were by no means Klipsch flagship speakers in fact you'd probably put them in the budget category back when they were available to buy new.

To keep production costs down the cabs are relatively thin with no internal bracing. I believe this is mainly due to cost rather than an ultimate design plan.

Some owners have expressed big improvements when bracing others not so much. Just wanted to know if anyone on AoS had actually tried it with fairly big cabs and what results they experienced.

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[Barry]

Good reply Andrew. :)

[karma67]

regarding the steel plates,i used 5mm plate to line the inside of my old pageant 2's,the result is a heavy cabinet that to my mind has improved them,i did away with the original stuffing . they now pass the knuckle test.

[Macca]

Years ago I designed and built a few pairs of speakers and had the opportunity to try out various stuffing options. No stuffing was best. I still had some 'fluff' lining the internal walls although that does very little if anything IMO.

I like the steel plate idea and think that would be worth a try.

[Lawrence001]

Just be careful, the flexing thing might have been taken into account when the speakers were voiced and you might suck the life out of them. Is that the same thing as "lossy" cabinets certain British makers espoused?

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[karma67]

yes that would be on my mind too,sometimes it better to leave things as they are,i doubt you'll hear a massive difference anyway.

[paulf-2007]

Here's a different approach that I took on open baffle woofers, I got this idea from a member on audio circle. The idea is to brace across the woofers magnet to stiffen the drivers frame. I was running the eminence alpha 15 up to 200 hz, with the bracing it ran to 350hz and very clean bass. Trying to run them above 200hz without the bracing didn't sound at all good. This may work on many drivers. Very simple to fix a timber across the cabinet or between the magnet and cabinet back. Just a thought for any diyer

[Barry]

Just be careful, the flexing thing might have been taken into account when the speakers were voiced and you might suck the life out of them. Is that the same thing as "lossy" cabinets certain British makers espouse

Good point - and one which can equally apply to the removal of speaker grills; their presence may be part of the acoustic design. My advice would be whatever modifications you make, make sure they are reversible.

[Pepperamip]

Thanks for all the comments and advice. Although I understand the principal behind both methods, theory doesn't always translate into better sound.

I would seriously consider the metal lining if I could open the cabs without a chance of damaging them but there is so I won't.

They're sounding better than ever at the moment with the bob crites upgrades so maybe I should just sit back and enjoy.

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[fatmarley]

Some years ago I built a pair of speakers without any bracing. A while later I braced them with shelf type braces and thought the bass tightened up quite a bit.