View Full Version : Premium 12ax7 recommendations?
After chasing ghosts in my hifi system I think I finally have the culprit of a random scratchy sort of noise tracked down to the 12ax7 driver tubes in my preamp. The tubes are Psvanes, pretty expensive, and im not certain i want to go with them again. Not because I don't like them, I do, but for the cost I expected a longer lifespan. (Hell, I have Amperex Bugle Boys in my DAC and their perfect and decades old.
I switched out the Psvanes and replaced them with Sovtek 12ax7 LPS that i had on hand and these ran the Vanes damn close, so close it was almost a case of why not leave them there and not spend anymore. It's only that the Sovteks aren't that brilliant with strings and, especially, piano, that I feel the need to change them. Obviously, and touch wood, the errant noises have disappeared since this change.
After recommendations of an alternate to the Psvanes, that are just as good, alrhough maybe a little more organic , without losing their tremendous detail and clarity. I don't want to go looney tunes pricing and would prefer to keep under 100 dollars Australian for the pair, current manufacture is preferred. Gold Lion is a candidate, any others I should consider?
As an aside, I've been loving my Lite Dac60, with the Bugle Boys, and a Kimber PJB interconnect. Insanely clear, able to track every nuance and stunningly musical, and with imaging that pinpoints every instrument as though it's in the room with you. Rediscovering my Mannheim Steamroller collection with this, and it's being a breathtaking experience.
julesd68
10-10-2018, 11:41
It's certainly worth looking at the TAD 12AX7's -
https://www.tubeampdoctor.com/catalog.php?product_search=12ax7
I have been using their 6SN7's for a while now and am immensely impressed by them.
It was quite a long time ago but I remember the TJ Fullmusic tubes being pretty good - very clean, neutral sounding ...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Matched-Pair-TJ-Fullmusic-12AX7-ECC83-Vacuum-Tubes-for-Vintage-Guitar-Ampx1-/321004628286
It's certainly worth looking at the TAD 12AX7's -
https://www.tubeampdoctor.com/catalog.php?product_search=12ax7
I have been using their 6SN7's for a while now and am immensely impressed by them.
It was quite a long time ago but I remember the TJ Fullmusic tubes being pretty good - very clean, neutral sounding ...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Matched-Pair-TJ-Fullmusic-12AX7-ECC83-Vacuum-Tubes-for-Vintage-Guitar-Ampx1-/321004628286
Thanks, I seem to recall the TJs being recommended by Grant Fidelity (Canada I think?) For my preamp. Will look into them also.
Hi Have you considered cleaning the valve pins and socket contacts?
Might just be a poor connection.
These are good.. Factory matched !! http://tubeaudio.com.au/genalex-12ax7/
Lawrence001
10-10-2018, 16:39
It's certainly worth looking at the TAD 12AX7's -
https://www.tubeampdoctor.com/catalog.php?product_search=12ax7
I have been using their 6SN7's for a while now and am immensely impressed by them.
It was quite a long time ago but I remember the TJ Fullmusic tubes being pretty good - very clean, neutral sounding ...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Matched-Pair-TJ-Fullmusic-12AX7-ECC83-Vacuum-Tubes-for-Vintage-Guitar-Ampx1-/321004628286Are they made by Shuguang? They look similar and I think I read their 6SN7s are.
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julesd68
10-10-2018, 17:20
Are they made by Shuguang? They look similar and I think I read their 6SN7s are.
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I'm not sure but I have read that too.
I much preferred their 6SN7's to the vintage tubes I tried and would buy again.
While there are undoubtedly some reasonable new issue 12ax7 valves out there are none I'd call premium- I've heard many. That said, nowadays there are obviously a lot of vintage tubes that test below par, are excessively microphonic, gassy etc that seem to get passed around ebay and the like, diminishing further with time. However a vintage tube that meets its original parameters can offer magnificent service and performance.
Lawrence001
10-10-2018, 22:17
A few people here like the JJ ECC803S I think it's called.
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krugdoktor
11-10-2018, 08:41
what about these?
https://www.europeanaudioteam.com/en/e.a.t.-ecc803s-cool-valve-wp000028.html
Have never heard of that one, interesting but i expect expensive.
The best I've ever used '50s-'61...
http://i63.tinypic.com/t0s0w4.jpg
The Chronicals
11-10-2018, 19:36
Genelex Golden Lions
http://www.hotroxuk.com/matched-valves-links-page-12ax7-6l6-909-0/genalex-gold-lion-kt88-el84-kt66-kt77-2176-0.html
Absolutely storming these. So much better the the Full Music or PSvane 'premium' ones. I use them in my Icon Audio Phono Stage after trying so many valves from Mullard to PS.
anthonyTD
12-10-2018, 10:50
If your looking for the best as far as reliability etc, then Mullard CV4004/M8137, however, they are very expensive now, but last, and last! :)
Hope this helps.
A...
Haselsh1
12-10-2018, 12:19
The best 12AX7's I've ever used were Genelex Gold Lions with gold pins. Lovely airy, bright clean sound. I also used Psvane 12AX7's but had countless problems with them and my preamp so cannot recommend them.
Thanks to all that replied, the winner is Gold lion, are the gold pin version voiced differently if anyone can comment? From the comments they are exactly what I like, disappointing though that so many have had trouble with the Psvanes.
Haselsh1
14-10-2018, 10:28
Hal, no idea why the Psvane's wouldn't work but every time I turned the volume on my preamp down to zero there was a cracking sound through the speakers. I put the original's back in and bingo, no problem. I have since re-valved the preamp with JJ's and there is no problem.
julesd68
14-10-2018, 12:20
The best I've ever used '50s-'61...
http://i63.tinypic.com/t0s0w4.jpg
I've never seen those before, must be incredibly rare - I'm using the 1960's welded plate which are quite superb and not so easy to find.
I've never seen those before, must be incredibly rare - I'm using the 1960's welded plate which are quite superb and not so easy to find.
They are very rare indeed, the silver plate version even more so. Stunning tubes...
http://i63.tinypic.com/znv3wj.jpg
After reading your thread Hal, I spent some time rolling 12AX7 tubes through a Jolida FX glass tube DAC .
New tubes have improved and NOS if you can find something that is not re boxed well worn pulls, or relabeled and re boxed Chinese /Russian new stuff, if legit will cost you a large sum. So I'll go with Re-pops,best bang for the buck.
I started out with reissue Tung sol's gold pins, I love this tube sounds a lot like the Ei silver long plates made on Telefunken machines in Yugoslavia in the 90's. Lively,toe tapping bass ,full sounding very fast and loads of gain. The Ei's just have a little more dynamics for example when a string is plucked on a guitar, bass or banjo it sounds a little faster and has a little more pop and vibrato.Bass is better controlled.(splitting hairs here)
Gold Lion B759 gold pins , Mullard reissues and Sovtek LPS all have one thing in common, soft,smooth,slow and sometimes sultry vocals.( Diana Krall makes me want to touch my self with these tubes) Mids and bass are very rich and controlled but higher frequencies sound slightly vialed in the Mullard and Sovtek LPS. I would choose the Mullard over the Sovtek due to it's better bass.
Of this family the gold lion B759 just gives you more of everything with detail and has upper end shimmer and sparkle that is not vialed but just soft in a good way.( You can listen to these all day long)
Electro Harmonics have less gain than most . Gotta eat dinner now will be back with more on this. The EH dose nothing wrong but seems un-involving,it reminds me of NOS Phillips, it's ok but there are just better sounding tubes.( I'd rather be watching a Godzilla movie. )
Chinese 12AX7W has a lot of gain but is thin sounding and a little bright and the most forward sounding of any tube I have ever heard.( loud and in your face).
My favorites are:
1. Ei
2.Tung sol gold pins Ri
3. Genulex Gold Lion B759 gold pins Ri
The Ei's that are out there now are all noisy duds and if they are good ones they are way over priced now. $60.00 to $80.00 U.S. per tube for good,quoit new old stock . (micro-phonics can be a problem with these tubes)
So depending on what floats your boat, if I where to start with reissues the tung sol and GL B759 would be my starting point both offer a different presentation of excellent sonic performance.
Keep in mind, as different as these tubes are we are listening to small differences, no tube will re-voice your stereo system, but the right tubes complement a well balanced kit.
Each tube got at least 30 min. warm up before listening, the CD used was Gillian Welch / Revival. Amp a Manley Labs Stingray 2 x 1960 Tungsol triple mica 12AT7 input,2 x early 60's 6414 Raytheon triple mica rectifiers, power plant 8 x cryo treated Genalex N709 / EL84 re issues ,push pull in Triode position .Custom Reference Tekton Lore speakers with updated /upgraded crossovers. All inter connects White Zombie silver Teflon , speaker cables 8 awg silver /Teflon.All mains cables PS Audio Signature and Prelude SC.
Disclaimer: All tubes where evaluated under the influence of 90.4 proof Woodford Kentucky Whiskey at the average rate of one maybe two 1+ ounce swigs per hour. Total evaluation took just over 8 hours to complete over the span of 2 evenings.
ovlov854
23-11-2018, 10:25
I had good results using Brimar CV4004, the mil spec ECC83.
Very similar to Mullard and made in the same factory?
Prices are far better than Mullard
WESTLOWER
23-11-2018, 12:52
Genelex Golden Lions
http://www.hotroxuk.com/matched-valves-links-page-12ax7-6l6-909-0/genalex-gold-lion-kt88-el84-kt66-kt77-2176-0.html
Absolutely storming these. So much better the the Full Music or PSvane 'premium' ones. I use them in my Icon Audio Phono Stage after trying so many valves from Mullard to PS.
Indeed they do sound great, but the Genelex Golden Lion ECC82s were terribly noisy in my pre and others have had similar problems. They have been back and forth to HotRox and eventually gave up! But I agree if you can get them without the noise (flutter, fart and pops) you are in for a nice sound.
Lordlidder
04-12-2018, 19:29
Greetings from Devon Hal,I recommend that you try the Tesla e83cc,it's a frame grid valve. I use one in my Phono amplifier and have tried many so I've heard the differences. A little expensive maybe? Who cares when they work so well! Regards
Indeed they do sound great, but the Genelex Golden Lion ECC82s were terribly noisy in my pre and others have had similar problems. They have been back and forth to HotRox and eventually gave up! But I agree if you can get them without the noise (flutter, fart and pops) you are in for a nice sound.
The GL B59 / 12AX7 is pretty much a Sovtek LPS upgraded with gold pins and a different label , ever hear of a noisy Sovtek LPS?
Of coarse not but like the LPS the B59 could be more dynamic .
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