Croft s7 or KEL84 as power amp ?

[colorved]

Hello to everyone,

I'm choosing the power amp and asking for advice.

To be honest what I really know is:
I don't like treble 'tizz' of SS amps and doubting in tight detailed bass of valves (EL84)

Is it MUCH difference in bass and treble between them (if any experience) ?

music: vocal jazz, new age, choral music, old disco...
speakers: 89db WD25T, Croft Micro basic preamp

Thanks,
Vladimir

[DSJR]

I've not heard the KEL84, but I suspect it's an excellent version of "the breed..."

I can, however, speak for the Series 7, which has the atmosphere and that "something" valve lovers love (if you see what I mean), yet also something of the control of a good solid state amp WITH NO HARSHNESS!!!!! If the speakers and source have a sweetness, you'll hear it, but if the tweeters are ragged old and badly crossed over metal domes, or the source a bag of nails, you'll hear that too, as the amp won't ever smother what's going on as my old Quad II's seem to do more than a bit.

Does that help?

[colorved]

... Series 7, which has the atmosphere and that "something" valve lovers love (if you see what I mean), yet also something of the control of a good solid state amp WITH NO HARSHNESS!!!!!

Does that help?

Hello Dave, it helps, thanks.

If s7 is not harsh and has "something" from valve presentation - it's what I'm searching for.
What about s7' bass, is it detailed, tight and low enough, when comparing with valves ?

Vladimir

[DSJR]

Oh YES!!!!! :lol:

Put it this way, it handles Harbeth ported bass warmth with no boom or lack of definition. An LFD integrated by comparison was almost surgically clinical by comparison - not in a negative way, but I'd use the LFD for critical analysis of programme faults, rather than music listening.

[colorved]

:doh:
Oh, sorry I've missed one detail: I only use CD as source.
I'm trying to realise what I will lose rejecting the output valves...

I see that s7 reveals the bad source.
On the other hand, can I expect that EL84 design will add some smoothing to CD material ?

Vladimir

[Ali Tait]

The KEL84 is a superb amp,capable of walking all over other amps of several times the price.It's a really musical amp,and will have you tapping along to the music in nothing flat.Great bass,as long as your speakers are not too difficult a load,though saying that,mine drove my electrostatics beautifully,and they go down to 2 ohms.Very clean and clear mid and top,and definately no harshness!! As for the Croft,can't say,never heard one.My advice would be to get a listen to both if you can,preferably in your own system.

[DSJR]

What do you want - an amp that smooths the faults elsewhere to make the sound "nice" and "bland," or do you want to hear what's there but in proper proportion to the musical signal?

What I mean is, the KEL amp is one heck of a valve amp for the money, as Glenn's all-valve products were. However, FET output stages, whilst not the be-all and end-all, do away with the lossy output transformers (a potential weakness in all trannie coupled valve amps) and make a very good stab at driving easier speaker loads without losing the musical flow in the process.

The Series 7 is Glenn's best amp ever and you really will have to spend thousands on a very high grade valve amp to genuinely better it (EAR springs to mind, but the prices they're charging now are horrendously OTT IMO).

Just bare in mind that transformer coupled output stages will have less control over the speakers and the latter must be partnered with some care if true magic is to ensue. Glenn's compromise should allow a wider range of speakers to be used...

[Haselsh1]

The Croft Series 7 drives my Dali's which dip down to 3.8 Ohms at the low end. It is one hell of a power amp. I adore mine.

[Ali Tait]

Never heard a SS output I preferred over a valve one,but YMMV.

[DSJR]

Never heard a SS output I preferred over a valve one,but YMMV.

Glenn would NEVER have compromised his designs, that I can promise you :lol:

[Ali Tait]

Not saying he did,just that I've never heard one I preferred over a valve output stage.

[hifi_dave]

I'm enjoying Croft's Series 7 and the 7R more than I did his previous designs. Even his OTL's sound a touch fuzzier and vague in comparison to the new offerings. I wasn't all that enthusiastic about a hybrid amp but I soon forgot my reservations when it was fired up.

Glenn is a tube man through and through, so there must be a good reason for him designing the new hybrid amps. For me it's all about the sound.

[Ali Tait]

Me too.I'd be interested in hearing them.

[hifi_dave]

If you ever find yourself in NW Essex, just give me a ring. You can hear your Accuphase through it...:eyebrows:

[swampy]

Not saying he did,just that I've never heard one I preferred over a valve output stage.

The s7 is a mosfet hybrid right ? I always fancied the Fusion 300B Hybrid that Brian sells at diyHS. Switchable from pure 300B to 50W mosfet driven by the 300B. Trouble is 300B tubes are not cheap now esp good ones like the TJ's.

http://www.diyhifisupply.com/catalog/32

[Ali Tait]

Thanks Dave! Is the tuner ok btw? David,I'm effectively running a hybrid at the moment,namely a WAD Pre 2 and this Tripath amp,which does about 40w/8 ohms.Sounds very good!

[trane]

i used ol' Glenn's GCi Integrated, factory upgraded version, for a year and i then believed that truly outclassed my ol' Audio Innovations S300 Mk II and S400 Mk I amps. recently i re-connected the AI S400 and though there were 'limitations' to the 'hi-fi sound', the valves did definitely their magic - and now i am using again those magical glowing tubes despite their lower output and lesser-behaving bass... go figure ;)
i am aware though that referred GCi was a 'compromised' model from Glenn's 'black' era - however, it truly ashamed a lot of, and much pricey, SS deigns, and it was cheered to be a giant killer of the time, plus was later tailored (much closer) by Glenn to his sonics 'standard'... so, what i am about to say is that for one the kel84 may be suited better to his own hearing and preferences in music, thus, a listen should be a must before the purchase...

[Themis]

The S7 is a killer amp. The only power amp under £1000 (I've tried about 15 different ones) that can handle my Sonus Faber in all situations without sweating while keeping them sweet and extremely detailed. As they are.

The "immediateness" of this amp is simply stunning ! You can't have better percussion and/or electric guitar sound than with this one ! I won't even mention the usual acoustic instruments... :)
The only one that came close, was a Perreaux E1.

[Haselsh1]

The S7 is a killer amp. The only power amp under £1000 (I've tried about 15 different ones) that can handle my Sonus Faber in all situations without sweating while keeping them sweet and extremely detailed. As they are.

The "immediateness" of this amp is simply stunning ! You can't have better percussion and/or electric guitar sound than with this one ! I won't even mention the usual acoustic instruments... :)
The only one that came close, was a Perreaux E1.

The one thing I really picked up on with my Series 7 was electric rhythm guitar. The sounds on Genesis' 'We Can't Dance' are absolutely atonishing with Mike Rutherford's rhythm guitar sounding so bloody real. This amplifier is truly astonishing and the only one I remember coming very close in the SS stakes was Musical Fidelity's Dr Thomas.

[DSJR]

SSSHHHHH! - They'll all want one... ;)