View Full Version : How long have we got?
Jac Hawk
08-10-2018, 20:31
I noticed that Sky Q now has Spotify and it got me thinking, just how long has vinyl and CD got before it's no longer available new. i know that vinyl is having somewhat of a resurgence of late but i think the majority of customers are people who remember it when it was king so to speak, my kids for instance only stream music, aren't interested in quality only accessability and portability and i would say the majority of young people are the same, so when we're gone who's going to want to carry the torch so to speak?
Food for thought...
Crackles
08-10-2018, 21:10
A lot of young people have discovered vinyl. Piccadilly Records is full of twentysomethings looking through the racks.
It is also likely that a lot of the convenience generation will discover an appreciation of quality when they get older. When I was 20 I thought good sound quality was the same thing as power and loudness. Musicality and soundstage were alien to me.
I also thought Mcdonalds was good food and Fosters was good alcohol. I don't think hifi is over for a long time yet.
Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
Jac Hawk
08-10-2018, 21:55
i'm not saying hifi or quality reproduction is over far from it, but i do think that vinyl and CD for the majority of people is fast becoming a thing of the past
Pigmy Pony
09-10-2018, 06:30
Don't worry about it Mike, we've got Drumbeat, and there are similar shops all over the country. If I never bought a new release ever again, there would still be plenty - I know I haven't scratched the surface of what's good out there.
As for future generations, I sort of agree with John (Crackles), though I think most youngsters are too thick/lazy/impatient to bother with vinyl. But appreciation will hopefully come with maturity. And there are plenty of them buying vinyl anyway, though I suspect many will not even use a record player and just use them to decorate their walls - a good source of nearly new stuff for future enthusiasts.
This is my hope, as I have two daughters who will inherit all my shit. One of them is getting into Fleetwood Mac and Bowie, so she should be ok, the other can't even sit through an entire song on MTV without switching channels.
I reckon CD's are a goner though.
Audio Al
09-10-2018, 08:30
Records have been around for over 100 years , Format will always have a following
Vinyl has established itself now as a niche product, I can't see that going away but it will always be exclusive and expensive, a bit like cigar smoking.
CD will go the way of the floppy disc drive. Outmoded and no-one was fond enough of it to begin with to want to keep it alive artificially.
vinyl has been around for about 70 years or so in the market. my earliest one is 1952; a blind blake bahamian calypso. fairly rare over here too. heyday was 60's n 70's. as you say macca, its still a small piece of music overall and will not get all that much bigger.
Ali Tait
09-10-2018, 13:21
True that a lot of youngsters have discovered vinyl, but from what I read a lot don’t even have a deck, they just collect it because it’s cool.
wee tee cee
09-10-2018, 13:33
Im not so sure...my son and his pal are into hi fi-its about the quality regards gaming/music/films.
like anything else some folk are happy with the basics,,,,others pursue quality
hornucopia
09-10-2018, 13:39
In the end, it's the message, not the medium, to change the quote.
My life runs (just!!) from 78s thru' singles, LPs, Cassettes, mini-discs, CDs to 'downloads (the last I've yet to do; all my HDD stored stuff is from my own CDs)
The high % of people were never into 'fidelity' anyway.
Will "Streaming' become the next source of fidelity? There will be a need/market-already exists.
nickbaba
09-10-2018, 15:53
CDs will not survive, it's an outmoded digital format with zero sentimental/emotional value.
Vinyl on the other hand I think will always have a following among those who value quality in music appreciation. It may never be mainstream again but it will survive I think.
It was looking far worse for vinyl in the early 90s when CD was king, but it survived until today and just look at the amount of modern turntables, tonearms etc available today. They wouldn't be around if no-one was buying them.
Personally speaking, even if no new record was ever pressed again, I have enough vinyl to keep me listening for the rest of my natural life - maybe 3000 records? Should see me through, and I hope they will pass on to my son one day.
walpurgis
09-10-2018, 15:57
CDs will not survive
Well they will here.
Why should I bin a large collection of CD's and some great sounding CD playing equipment just because they are (apparently) no longer 'flavour of the month'?
Likewise but that's not the general trend.
What got me to start buying cds and a cd player was when you could no longer get new releases on vinyl. At some point soon they will stop doing new releases on CD and that's the end for CD. Despite being the best way (IMO) to own a hard copy of what is effectively the master recording, it does not have vinyl's charms, so it will die.
Pieoftheday
09-10-2018, 17:29
Likewise but that's not the general trend.
What got me to start buying cds and a cd player was when you could no longer get new releases on vinyl. At some point soon they will stop doing new releases on CD and that's the end for CD. Despite being the best way (IMO) to own a hard copy of what is effectively the master recording, it does not have vinyl's charms, so it will die.
I like cd' s and will continue to buy them new and old stuff, if they stop being produced I won't buy any new music, streaming dosnt interest me,neither do downloads and I can't be arst going back to vinyl:)
I buy new music so rarely it doesn't matter at all to me. Worst (or best) case, if new music got good again I'd get someone to download it and burn me CDRs. Or I'll buy a Nakamichi DR2 and tape it off them like in the old days :)
Theadmans
09-10-2018, 18:03
CDs and SACDs are still enormously popular in Japan....
...think they will still be available in 10 years time. I rip all my vinyl and CDs to my hard drive as lossless Flacs to play via Raspberry Pi Squeezebox Touch clones. But I still retain all the CDs and Vinyl as a backup (I have around 5000 CDs). I still have CDs I bought new in 1985 - still play fine. I made sure my latest DAC - the excellent Creek 50CD had a CD player to use in case of internet outages etc.
Pieoftheday
09-10-2018, 18:10
I buy new music so rarely it doesn't matter at all to me. Worst (or best) case, if new music got good again I'd get someone to download it and burn me CDRs. Or I'll buy a Nakamichi DR2 and tape it off them like in the old days :)
I'm sure there's plenty of new good music around just like there's always been utter shite:) having said that good or bad is just a matter of taste:D
I'm sure there's plenty of new good music around just like there's always been utter shite:) having said that good or bad is just a matter of taste:D
I'm not so sure. I check out recommendations on here and other forums quite often and it seems to me that the new stuff is just a re-hash of old stuff. Or it's the sort of music that does nothing for me anyway (which is the taste bit). Or it's utter shite. And yes there's always been utter shite. No argument there.
Pieoftheday
09-10-2018, 18:25
I'm not so sure. I check out recommendations on here and other forums quite often and it seems to me that the new stuff is just a re-hash of old stuff. Or it's the sort of music that does nothing for me anyway (which is the taste bit). Or it's utter shite. And yes there's always been utter shite. No argument there.
At work the radio is usually on somethong like capitol,lots of new music,all crap to my ears, i like 6 music to get new good stuff along with old stuff,though often it's by chance I find new stuff I like
Pieoftheday
09-10-2018, 18:30
By new stuff do we mean new artists or just new music by anyone? Sorry am I thread crapping?
57charles
09-10-2018, 18:46
CD's will survive just as long as there's a supply in charity shops. When and if that source of supply dries up then they will be limited to specialist labels at the very most.
Jac Hawk
09-10-2018, 19:29
interesting to read what everyone thinks will happen
Pieoftheday
09-10-2018, 19:49
CD's will survive just as long as there's a supply in charity shops. When and if that source of supply dries up then they will be limited to specialist labels at the very most.
Surely the charity shop ones are pre owned? And don't affect new sales ?so have no effect on whether cd's survive?
Depends what you mean by survive. Survive as in still they stop making them or survive as in until the very last one goes to landfill?
Pigmy Pony
09-10-2018, 20:26
In recent years car boot sales have been an excellent source of CD's, sometimes 50p or less, so I can afford to try out unfamiliar stuff. This last year though, this seems to have tailed off a bit.
I don't see vinyl ever being more than a niche product, so I reckon access to all available new titles will be through streaming and downloads only. Personally I'm not bothered, I'll just stick with the hard copies I've already got, and subscribe to a streaming service. Tidal looks favourite at the mo, but who knows which it'll be when I get round to it.
You can still buy 78s from various places but that's got to be classified as dead as a medium. Compact cassette too. And reel to reel (The Tape Project notwithstanding). It's the coolest source ever but it's dead lads. Get over it and enjoy it, but it's never coming back. Same as 8 Track, minidisc, laserdisc and VHS. Betamax. Elcassette. DVD-A. Even DVD is on the way out, 5 more years tops I think.
In fact when you think about it there's more dead formats than you realise. But CD has outlived all of them so far.
Manicatel
10-10-2018, 00:36
Streaming for convenience & searching for new music.
LP’s for when there’s something that I want to just sit down & listen to, without constantly chopping, changing & fiddling about.
CD’s are the big loser. They will only survive for people with big cd collections, who don’t want to get into streaming. The amount of new CD players on the market has shrunk. As an example, Naim has only one player in their range, & that is at the lower end of their spectrum.
Minstrel SE
10-10-2018, 07:04
CD is definately on the way out as most younger people I know are just interested in phones, portable extension speakers and Spotify.
I still see a market for the silver disc or maybe thats because I have a soft spot for them
Im quite sad to see it dying away. Its not that they are hated....just being passed over for instant gratification and convenient ways to hear music. They want it now and you cant blame them for that
Vinyl will only ever be niche again. extremely niche.......its nice to talk about a vinyl revival but its a heavily capped revival as the vast majority wont ever bother with it.
Im slow on the uptake as it took me years to even use a contactless card. However Im beginning to see the joys of a vast library of readily available music. Ive been using i tunes on a limited basis but I can see that Spotify etc are very handy to get to the end result of listening to music.
Clive197
11-10-2018, 17:34
The King is dead, long live the king.
A lot of the music I buy is on cd, secondhand, which then gets ripped to a NAS. I much prefer a secondhand cd to a secondhand LP because condition is greatly important to me. I’m discovering a lot of music that went over my head in the sixties and seventies.
Many wrote off vinyl, they were wrong. A lot of people are now writing off cd, they are wrong. Physical media will always be the go-to for millions. Even radio still survives (just).
Reports of vinyl and cd’s death has been greatly exaggerated.
Let me start by qualifying my following statement, I have never listened to a good quality vinyl or streaming based system, my last vinyl system was a Garrard SP25 through a NAD 3020i and Wilmslow Audio home made speakers. For streaming I listen to Spotify on a Galaxy S6 through my amp using a 3.5mm to RCA lead
In my experience I prefer CD to both vinyl & streamed music, to me vinyl does have a certain warmth but lacks clarity and streamed music just sounds dull almost as though a blanket has been put over the speakers.
I am planning to give vinyl another go (see my thread in the analogue section) and may in future invest in a decent digital source and/or DAC for streaming but for now it's CDs all the way for me
Pigmy Pony
11-10-2018, 19:13
Most of the members on here who are into vinyl will have put a lot of money into it, probably over the course of their adult life, and are in a good position to enjoy it. If I were starting out now, with no record player and no vinyl, I'd have to be very determined/well off to start out on that road. Chances are that I would be getting it all through streaming - a premium service can give a month's worth of pretty much everything that's out there for the price of one album on vinyl.
I must admit that I'm in two minds about what to spend time & money on.
A vinyl source or a decent streaming source, currently I'm using Spotify premium through an old mobile phone.
Vinyl has the aesthetic and sensory (actually touching and owning something physical) attraction but digital makes more sense logically.
I'm happy with my CDP, amp & speakers (at the moment lol)
My vinyl only runs to about 330 now, but its value is nearly 7k. realistically I wont get that of course, but i will have cost more to buy. You can see it quickly adds up. I certainly wouldnt be starting again seriously with it unless i was in a strong financial position. But there is no doubt there is nothing like it when done well. Especially if you like classical as you can pick up nice stuff cheap in secondhand shops still as its not popular.
paulf-2007
17-10-2018, 07:41
I can't remember the last time I played a cd. It's vinyl or Spotify for me. Cd is half way between vinyl and streaming when it comes to inconvenience.
Haselsh1
17-10-2018, 08:19
Someone stated here that "CD is an outmoded digital format". I take it from that then that vinyl is not an outmoded analogue format...? Vinyl is outmoded and obsolete and the recent interest is purely hip and trendy with young people who have lots of cash to throw at it. I wonder how many of these people have a multi thousand pound means of playing it...? I have always agreed with people who said that CD was only ever about convenience but these formats will hang around for as long as people still throw money at them. The majority of people want to own a collection of solid, tangible things whether that be CD's, vinyl or old tin plate signs. What a lot of people do not want is to pour money into a set of one's and nought's that only exist in the alignment of molecules of iron oxide. I truly do not understand this ridiculous fad of paying money out for something that simply doesn't exist in 'real' terms. I guess the only thing that humans have never reinvented is the wheel.
;)
Haselsh1
17-10-2018, 08:20
I can't remember the last time I played a cd. It's vinyl or Spotify for me. Cd is half way between vinyl and streaming when it comes to inconvenience.
I had a three hour music session last night playing nothing but CD's (Dire Straits' white album and Shpongle's Museum of Consciousness).
Haselsh1
17-10-2018, 08:23
My vinyl only runs to about 330 now, but its value is nearly 7k. realistically I wont get that of course,
I had around 350 LP's a lot of them recent and I now have around 70 remaining. The total I have taken so far on the sale of them is short of £2k.
Never again will I pay out close to 26 quid for a vinyl record when the CD can be had for a tenner.
Haselsh1
17-10-2018, 08:27
I personally think that rather than get worked up and anxious about audio formats we should be more worried about the future of the hi-fi industry and the lack of interest these days from up and coming potential customers. Looking back to 1983 I remember a huge market for hi-fi, I don't see that market anymore.
anthonyTD
17-10-2018, 09:10
I play mostly CD these days, and that's perhaps because I like the way my main CD player portrays music, its probably far from accurate, but its very enjoyable! :D
We all bounce back and forth with most things, be it fashion,politics, or just a change of taste etc, so why should the way we play, or listen to music be any diffrent, therefore; I think all formats of music will be around as long as there are folk who want, and value diversity. :)
Pieoftheday
17-10-2018, 10:08
Perhaps the GREEN lobby will see off cds vinyl and blue rays, plastic is bad and all that? Granted most people don't clog up the environment with discarded records but I'm sure someone will come up with an argument as to why they should be banned
Haselsh1
17-10-2018, 10:20
I think all formats of music will be around as long as there are folk who want, and value diversity. :)
So well spoken and accurate. Diversity is at the very heart of what we listen to and how we listen to it. Off to the chippy now :partytime:
I personally think that rather than get worked up and anxious about audio formats we should be more worried about the future of the hi-fi industry and the lack of interest these days from up and coming potential customers. Looking back to 1983 I remember a huge market for hi-fi, I don't see that market anymore.
Very true.
Very few "younger" people listen on anything other than Bluetooth speakers or headphones and many "older" hifi buffs are switching to Sonos type systems for convenience.
I too wonder what future there is for multi-box hifi, it will probably become an even more niche market the cost of which will be prohibitive to newcomers?
Haselsh1
17-10-2018, 10:38
Very true.
Very few "younger" people listen on anything other than Bluetooth speakers or headphones and many "older" hifi buffs are switching to Sonos type systems for convenience.
I too wonder what future there is for multi-box hifi, it will probably become an even more niche market the cost of which will be prohibitive to newcomers?
Yes Gary, take a look at the housing market which is pretty much essential and hardly a luxury. If the cost of housing is so extreme, what hope is there for unnecessary items like audio..?
Houses are so expensive because there aren't enough of them. You can't really say the same thing about hi-fi equipment.
I had a three hour music session last night playing nothing but CD's (Dire Straits' white album and Shpongle's Museum of Consciousness).
Funnily enough I had a six hour session yesterday, playing all nine Beethoven symphonies. These were mono recordings made in the late 40s, early 50s, and remastered to CD. So a delightful mix of technology - and yes they sounded great; I became really engaged and engrossed with the performances (otherwise I wouldn't have spent so much time listening to them).
Houses are so expensive because there aren't enough of them. You can't really say the same thing about hi-fi equipment.
True, that's expensive because people are prepared to pay high prices.
paulf-2007
17-10-2018, 12:20
I had a three hour music session last night playing nothing but CD's (Dire Straits' white album and Shpongle's Museum of Consciousness).
And your point is?
I find cd much the same as streaming so cd is an inconvenience having to get up and change discs. Vinyl is a more worthwhile inconvenience.
My vinyl only runs to about 330 now, but its value is nearly 7k. realistically I wont get that of course, but i will have cost more to buy. You can see it quickly adds up. I certainly wouldnt be starting again seriously with it unless i was in a strong financial position. But there is no doubt there is nothing like it when done well. Especially if you like classical as you can pick up nice stuff cheap in secondhand shops still as its not popular.
Same here. But my vinyl only has monetary value if I sell it or lose it. I could never replace it.
Stratmangler
17-10-2018, 12:24
And your point is?
I find cd much the same as streaming so cd is an inconvenience having to get up and change discs. Vinyl is a more worthwhile inconvenience.
Don't forget all the additional exercise as a plus point :)
And your point is?
I find cd much the same as streaming so cd is an inconvenience having to get up and change discs. Vinyl is a more worthwhile inconvenience.
Yes, you have to get up every 20 minutes to turn the record over, re-fit the record clamp,clean the surface with a record brush, check the stylus is clean and cue the pickup arm. Whereas with a CD, you just pop it in the drawer and press 'play' - and you only need do that every 60 minutes or so.
WESTLOWER
17-10-2018, 12:52
And your point is?
I find cd much the same as streaming so cd is an inconvenience having to get up and change discs. Vinyl is a more worthwhile inconvenience.
https://i.imgur.com/NKHW9y6.jpg
Houses are so expensive because there aren't enough of them. You can't really say the same thing about hi-fi equipment.
Some houses in the UK are cheap because they're in places no-one wants to live. AFAIK there's no regional variation within the UK in the price of hifi.
And your point is?
I find cd much the same as streaming so cd is an inconvenience having to get up and change discs. Vinyl is a more worthwhile inconvenience.
If you have children you can get them to change the CD for you instead of getting up yourself, thus solving that problem. I've never understood why people don't make more use of their children as domestic servants, it would offset at least some of the cost and inconvenience of having them.
I don't recommend allowing children anywhere near your turntable or vinyl though, unless you want a broken stylus and chocolate and jam smeared all over your album sleeves.
WESTLOWER
17-10-2018, 13:12
If you have children you can get them to change the CD for you instead of getting up yourself, thus solving that problem. I've never understood why people don't make more use of their children as domestic servants, it would offset at least some of the cost and inconvenience of having them.
I'll try that, but i'll need longer chains, so they can reach the spinner.
I think Homebase does them.
If you have children you can get them to change the CD for you instead of getting up yourself, thus solving that problem. I've never understood why people don't make more use of their children as domestic servants, it would offset at least some of the cost and inconvenience of having them.
I don't recommend allowing children anywhere near your turntable or vinyl though, unless you want a broken stylus and chocolate and jam smeared all over your album sleeves.
I wouldn't want jam or chocolate smeared over my CDs either.
No but it's easier to clean it off.
walpurgis
17-10-2018, 15:11
I wouldn't want jam or chocolate smeared over my CDs either.
No. Peanut butter is much nicer. :)
Pigmy Pony
17-10-2018, 15:45
Yes, you have to get up every 20 minutes to turn the record over, re-fit the record clamp,clean the surface with a record brush, check the stylus is clean and cue the pickup arm. Whereas with a CD, you just pop it in the drawer and press 'play' - and you only need do that every 60 minutes or so.
You have all that to do when playing vinyl? No wonder my records crackle like buggery.
You have all that to do when playing vinyl? No wonder my records crackle like buggery.
I have some CDs that 'crackle' - they're transcriptions of live recordings made in the late '40s, early '50s. ;)
Haselsh1
18-10-2018, 05:36
There's a recording I have on CD of Peter and the Wolf featuring Brian Eno that has just been taken off a vinyl version. Had I known there is no way I would have wasted money on it. Christ, if I'd wanted all of that analogue shite I'd have bought it on vinyl.
;)
mannypr551
18-10-2018, 09:49
I noticed that Sky Q now has Spotify and it got me thinking, just how long has vinyl and CD got before it's no longer available new. i know that vinyl is having somewhat of a resurgence of late but i think the majority of customers are people who remember it when it was king so to speak, my kids for instance only stream music, aren't interested in quality only accessability and portability and i would say the majority of young people are the same, so when we're gone who's going to want to carry the torch so to speak?
Food for thought...
Even though Since I was a small boy I liked the looks of hifi and had had small recievers with bose speakers the first time I was exposed to a really good equipment I was hooked . Same applys today . Most of todays younger generation have been with portable streamed music but just like me sit them down in front of a good system and they will desire to have a good system . It will also as it did with me expand their musical taste .
paulf-2007
18-10-2018, 11:05
Don't forget all the additional exercise as a plus point :)
Tbh, I can reach my kit from the chair, I have to get up to change a record but not a cd.
Tbh, I can reach my kit from the chair, I have to get up to change a record but not a cd.
Same situation here.
hifinutt
18-10-2018, 19:21
ooh and here i was thinking this thread was a philosophical discussion of the nearness of death :)
Jac Hawk
18-10-2018, 20:21
I personally think that rather than get worked up and anxious about audio formats we should be more worried about the future of the hi-fi industry and the lack of interest these days from up and coming potential customers. Looking back to 1983 I remember a huge market for hi-fi, I don't see that market anymore.
I'd agree, back in the 70's and 80's quality HiFi was a lot more readily available than it is today, even general electrical wholesalers like Currys and Comet carried a good range of separates all be it middle of the road kit, whereas nowadays Currys only sell a smattering of Audio kit and it's all stuff like Sonos or Samsung streaming gear
Pigmy Pony
19-10-2018, 06:41
ooh and here i was thinking this thread was a philosophical discussion of the nearness of death :)
I thought we were comparing willy sizes. Obviously cold weather and immersion in cold water plays a part. At least that's what I tell people. :(
Haselsh1
19-10-2018, 07:54
I'd agree, back in the 70's and 80's quality HiFi was a lot more readily available than it is today, even general electrical wholesalers like Currys and Comet carried a good range of separates all be it middle of the road kit, whereas nowadays Currys only sell a smattering of Audio kit and it's all stuff like Sonos or Samsung streaming gear
Yes Mike I remember back in the seventies when 'all' hi-fi was shit unless it had Linn or Naim stamped onto it. You are so right that mainstream shops sold hi-fi back then and some of it was bloody good. Then we got digital and here we are. I think there will always be a market but it may be reduced to an extremely small market as more and more young people lose the awareness that us hi-fi fans have. For me, the height was in 1983 with the peak of analogue. Cranfield Rock early version with an Alphason HR100S MCS arm. Oh my, the old days. I think that 'our' days are severely numbered and people like me are not helping things for the analogue brigade. I have almost sold off my entire vinyl LP collection to concentrate on CD replay being down to my last 50 or so LP's now. I do though still fly the flag for valve amplification. Whatever happens I do not doubt that history will eventually reinvent itself as with most hip and trendy things.
walpurgis
19-10-2018, 08:09
Whatever happens I do not doubt that history will eventually reinvent itself as with most hip and trendy things.
Bearing in mind the age of some members, I suspect that the word 'hip' will possibly also be associated with the word 'replacement'! :D
Aaaah yes, the 80s, the pinnacle of sound reproduction lol
https://www.gumtree.com/p/stereo-systems/amstrad-stacking-hifi-system/1234558037
Bad example? Lol
Haselsh1
19-10-2018, 13:42
Aaaah yes, the 80s, the pinnacle of sound reproduction lol
https://www.gumtree.com/p/stereo-systems/amstrad-stacking-hifi-system/1234558037
Bad example? Lol
Ah yes the 80's, the pinnacle of music for some (poor buggers)
;)
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