Japanese Cartridges

[tdlt02]

I'm wondering if anyone on here has experience of running any of the Shelter (not the 201), Dynavector or Koetsu MC cartridges, and if so which models and thoughts on overall qualities of the cartridge please...

Cartridge would be going on the end of a SME 310 tonearm. Synergy or not!


Mark GV - Reference Point

[Audio Al]

I have a Shelter 5000 awsom cartridge :eyebrows:
Clean clear clinical reproduction it picks out the music , no coloration :eyebrows:

[RobbieGong]

I have a Shelter 5000 awson cartridge :eyebrows:
Clean clear clinical reproduction it picks out the music , no coloration :eyebrows:

Good shout Al.

Has been the main cart of choice for Martin T (who used to be very very active here), On the end of his Dynavector DV507-II.

Seen post #17 here https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?29472-The-Tech-Gallery/page2

[WESTLOWER]

I'm wondering if anyone on here has experience of running any of the Shelter (not the 201), Dynavector or Koetsu MC cartridges, and if so which models and thoughts on overall qualities of the cartridge please...

Cartridge would be going on the end of a SME 310 tonearm. Synergy or not!


Mark GV - Reference Point

I ran a Dynavector DVXX2mk2, it was an incredibly good cartridge with great bass extension, lovely mids and lots of detail in the top end. It had real punch. It's not cheap at £1200 but it's all the cartridge you could really want. I kinda miss mine. Your arm mass just comes in on the cartridges manufacturer recommendation.

Could be real nice! Certainly the sweet spot in the DV range...apparently !

[montesquieu]

I'm wondering if anyone on here has experience of running any of the Shelter (not the 201), Dynavector or Koetsu MC cartridges, and if so which models and thoughts on overall qualities of the cartridge please...

Cartridge would be going on the end of a SME 310 tonearm. Synergy or not!


Mark GV - Reference Point

Very wide spread of prices on the list you mention.

Regarding Shelter, I had the 501 and 901 at various times on various (generally 12 inch) arms, both very good I thought in their own way - quite lively and punchy.

I enjoyed the Dynavector 17D3 that I had, short cantilever worked well and a great tracker (had that on a Rock Reference), a great all-rounder for the money, and also heard Adam's DVXX2mk2 which sounded very nice on the end of an SME 3012.

With Koetsu the price range is enormous, from a fairly humble black (though not so humble price these days) up to the Rosewoods and the stone bodied ones. I've had a Black, a Rosewood and a Rosewood Signature - all nice enough but I think the equivalent-priced Ortofon SPUs are better value and more rounded in terms of ability.

What all of the above-mentioned have in common is low-ish compliance (generally under 10 x 10-6), so for the most part they are happiest with a heavier/higher mass arm. The SME 310 is at under 10g effective mass is medium to low mass so may not work in an optimal way with lower compliance cartridges. That's not to say they won't work, but be cautious.

[Barry]

You can always add mass (at the headshell, in the form of a spacer weight) to a low effective mass arm, in order to use it with a low compliance cartridge.

(What you cannot do is remove mass from a high effective mass arm to be able to use it with a high compliance cartridge.)

Were it me , I would definitely look at the Dynavector DVXX2, though I would probably save up a little more and go for the Dynavector 'Te Kaitora Rua'.

[Dickchy]

I ran a Dynavector DVXX2mk2, it was an incredibly good cartridge with great bass extension, lovely mids and lots of detail in the top end. It had real punch. It's not cheap at £1200 but it's all the cartridge you could really want. I kinda miss mine. Your arm mass just comes in on the cartridges manufacturer recommendation.

Could be real nice! Certainly the sweet spot in the DV range...apparently !
I’m the lucky chap who bought Adam’s Dynavector XX2 Mk2. It’s no wonder he misses it. I’m listening to it it now, real dynamics but a sweet top and middle too. I have mine on an Ekos SE. Can’t recommend it too highly.
Richard

[tdlt02]

All good info chaps, much appreciated.
Any love for Audio Technica stuff at the £500 + price range, such as AT 33SA for instance!

SME 310 at 9.7 mass, so what are a few contenders that will suit this arm guys and make it sing sweetly, apart from the Dynavectors mentioned?

[DiveDeepDog]

I've got Shelter 501, Koetsu Red Sig and a few AT's. My Art 9 is my go to cart, for me it sings my tune and in comparison to the Koetsu a bit of a bargain.

Not had much luck with DV's, 17 D2 cantilever fell off, and I've an XX1 with tip fallen off. They do sound great though and there's always chance I've been unlucky with 2nd hand buys?

* I won a 33SA on ebay, but it was so badly twisted I sent it back, one on my list to buy.

[Bigman80]

If the bass was firmer on the AT33PTGII, I would never have let it go. Everything about that cartridge is just superb but the bass didn't do it for me. Sounded a bit soft.

If the AT33SA has rectified that (don't see how they could have as its entirely the same inside, just a different stylus profile ) then it could be well worth the money.

Had an AT-ART7 here and that too is just a stunning cartridge. By far the best AT cartridge I've heard, but again, the grip on the bass just isn't what I like. What it did have was incredible depth of soundstage. There's something about the AT house sound which appeals but they don't get the bass right.

Had a ZYX R50 and R100 cartridges here. They were enjoyable but didn't do detail or tonal balance to a level I could live with. Sort of Rosey sounding with, what I deem to be, too much bass. A good party cartridge but not for those in search of refinement and delicacy when needed.

Denon 304 was here here for a while, detail to rival any cartridge on Earth but lacked body and texture. Possibly the most boring but ultimately uncoloured cartridge I've ever heard.

Denon 301 MK2 was the first Denon to make me think that I could live with it. IF I didn't have a Kontrapunkt b and hadn't heard what great cartridges can do.

I'm sure there's more to add. Give me a minute.





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[Mike Reed]

Well, I had my Black Goldline and later, Urushi on my Five (11g) and they were pretty good, despite the arm mass discrepancy. The Urushi sang when I put it into a 14 to 15g 12" unipvot, though. All the basic Ks shunt out a healthy 0.5mV (the Black, 0.6) which makes them quite lusty and engaging on any arm, but as soon as you get above the Red K Sig., you're talking around 0.3 (my Vermillion even less). I rather think Ks are not the ones for your potential shopping list.

Lyras are fine; I'd imagine Zyx, Dv and Shelter also, but your arm is really intended for high compliance magnets, so synergy would always have a question mark, regardless of sonic results.

[bob4333]

To answer your original post Mark, I had a shelter 5000 which left me totally underwhelmed. It just didn't really shine in any area of the audio spectrum.

That's not to say it's a bad cartridge by any means (look at the support already in this thread), but my system synergy will be different to your's, and your's will be different to anyone else's.

Likewise the Benz Micro Wood. Didn't do much for me but the next user loved it. Of all the cart's I've had I've had more joy with those around the £500 mark than the £1000+ end of the scale. I'll reinforce that by saying I've got 40 hours on a Cadenza Bronze I've had from new and it's currently out of my system taking rest whilst the AT33 PTG II is back in - which is where I usually finish up.

The only potential attraction I have left is the AT ART 7 or 9, but I'm again entering a price area where I've not had much success (probably developing an irrational complex about this).

There are a lot of Marmite cartridges out there.

The more I listen and read the more it comes home to me that the "Cart / Arm / Phono Stage" part of the system has to be considered as a whole. But it's a good starting point to get other's impressions as a directional guide - otherwise it's starting with nothing if you can't audition.

But having said all of that it's interesting that there are a few carts out there that seem to be almost universally accepted - DL103, Hana, Eroica, 2M Black. Rarely hear a voice raised in anger.

Funny old business isn't it.

[Vrajbasi]

I have owned a few shelter cartridges over the years never been my thing, I dont get on with lyras what so ever. Koetsus have changed very much over the years they are not the warm lush cartridges they once were. I have had many of them from the 80,s to date they also are a bit inconsistent I have a heard two same models sound very different. I did hear a very nice 2018 Red Sig recently at a friends sound fresh not slow and boring with great bass and plenty of slam something you dont often expect from a Koetsu. The stone bodies are in a different class each body does sound very different then you get into the super big league 11.5k diamond cantilever versions that can be jaw dropping good. If using a 310 I would use the sme spacer as it adds extra mass and does work well with the koetsu I likes the older aluminium 310 with koetsus they sounded very much more vibrant than the later arm tubes.

I like the dynavectors mentioned earlier they are good honest nice sounding cartridges and generally seem to be quite consistent with samples while maybe not as consistent by ortofons standards that said I owned four MC Ana cartridges because of reliabilty and inconsistency issues. If one has a tonearm that accepts a SPU than they get my overall vote for best bang for your buck. I recently recommended a friend to purchase a Sme M9R with a Spu over a 310 that I have for his Michell Gyro overall he felt he got much more value for money sadly the M9R is not so popular but for me its a great way to get a lot of sound for your pound with a SPU without faffing around looking for audio perfection In a world over populated by rather thin bright sounding overpriced cartridges not to that they are some wonderful gems out there.

[Mike Reed]

Part of the reason for the Red K Sig's presentation is its healthy 0.5mV output, Nari. All the Urushis, Platinums and stone bodied Ks have much lower output. It took me a while to acclimatise from Black G to Urushi Vermillion. Blood and guts to delicacy and transparency.

[Vrajbasi]

Part of the reason for the Red K Sig's presentation is its healthy 0.5mV output, Nari. All the Urushis, Platinums and stone bodied Ks have much lower output. It took me a while to acclimatise from Black G to Urushi Vermillion. Blood and guts to delicacy and transparency.

That is certainly true but I can assure you there is sample variation I at one point two Urushi blacks with consecutive numbers sound very different and when I see people comment on preowned cartridges without really knowing there history etc I shudder. I have also heard a change in the general koetsu presentation over the years. I remember my old sugano 80th anniversary years back and my jaws dropping with its sheer scale I then went to a kisiki lapis lazuli which was interesting the quest never ends.

I have heard poor red ks and stunning ones over the years I have had a fair few go through my hands. I will always have a soft spot for the brand even though ownership is rather expensive with high rebuild costs etc, I broke a blue onyx two years back and all I can say it was an arm and a leg to fix.