Best isolating feet for turntable plinth?

[nickbaba]

Popular choices here? What are you using on your TT plinth, if anything?

Seems like a lot of options on offer, everyone claiming their products isolate effectively. Some are very expensive but of course that doesn't mean they work better or that cheaper products are not as effective.

Been looking at:

Townshend Seismic Pods and/or Seismic platform. The platform is very pricey, almost as much as a set of 4 Stillpoint Ultras, even a set of 4 pods not that cheap. Effective but also pretty fugly. Seems that quite a few people here like and use them.

Soundeck SDS - 3mm thick constrained layer damping steel pads.

Sorbothane Hemispheres.

Stillpoint Ultra SS - hi-tech and smart looking but horribly expensive. Heard that they isolate on the horizontal plane but couple on the vertical? Not sure.

Vibrapads - cheap as chips, no idea how effective they are.

[Crackles]

I've just borrowed a set of ultrapoints off a mate and they are amazing. Got them under my valve amp though not my turntable.

Incidentally I've taken to placing my N.A. Spacedeck directly on the rack and not using a plinth at all. I have used the standard plinth which was ok and a granite one which was awful so now don't bother with one at all.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[Ammonite Audio]

Stillpoints are amazing for hard coupling equipment to an isolation platform such as a Townshend Seismic Platform (I use old Stillpoints OEM footers on my SL-1200GR which sits on a Seismic Platform). Stillpoints don't 'isolate' but rather channel vibrations effectively into a suitable structure that can absorb those vibrations in an ordered manner. Whether Stillpoints are worth the price is another matter altogether, but used intelligently they are without doubt effective as long as people don't assume that they isolate. They don't do that any more than a metal cone would.

You don't achieve isolation without having some sort of springy compliance, whether it comes from stable and damped springs like the Townshend products, or rubbery polymers. For total isolaton across a truly broad range of frequencies, you simply cannot beat a correctly specified spring support. Sorbothane etc will only give isolation over a restricted frequency range and typically very little at low frequencies, which matters for turntables.

Are Townshend Seismic Platforms fugly? I don't think so and while they do certainly lack bling of any sort, they are almost invisible when in use, being so thin seen from the front:

https://ammonite-audio.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Townshend-hifi-Platform-Seimic-Isolation-980x360.jpg

[CageyH]

A few others to consider::

Solid air audio magnetic isolation feet.

Clearaudio Magix isolation feet.

Funk Firm Kinetic cradle.

Funk Firm Boing.

[Ammonite Audio]

I've just borrowed a set of ultrapoints off a mate and they are amazing. Got them under my valve amp though not my turntable.

Incidentally I've taken to placing my N.A. Spacedeck directly on the rack and not using a plinth at all. I have used the standard plinth which was ok and a granite one which was awful so now don't bother with one at all.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

You should try placing the Spacedeck (without its plinth) on a Townshend Seismic Platform - you will be amazed at the improvement in resolution. Townshend will make up platforms to suit specific applications and send them out for free home trial.

[Spectral Morn]

Track Audio Isolation Spikes turntable version.

[Primalsea]

I think that due to their nature turntables will sound different with any sort of change in support. Whether the sound is technically better or just a sound that is preferable may not actually be the same thing. My thoughts are that you either have to go for large amounts of mass using solid materials or you can use compliant materials like rubber or springs but to be technically correct the support has to be designed properly to match the mass of the turntable and the frequencies of interest. Subjective preference aside this is why some people will rave about a particular support product and other people will never use them again.

I used to think that a lot of the hifi support products were overpriced (as most hifi stuff is). Laboratory and industrial Isolation and dampening platforms have been available many years and these unlike many hifi products have been designed properly (with calculations and testing based on real science and everything). These can be more expensive than the hifi platforms!

I’ve not used Townshend products but looking at there products at shows it does seem like they do actually use proper engineering to design their products and they are a UK manufacturer who you could probably call up and get some good advice from so that you don’t have to perform shotgun trials.

[Vrajbasi]

I have tried and played with countless amounts of feet under various turntables and alot depends on the particular turntable and its construction. I wont go into detail here but my conclusions down too, I generally dont get along with still points very much they tend to harden the sound and lean towards a more precise clinical presentation of corse its turntable dependent. I recently borrowed the Kodo turntable that has the big still points under the turntable and power supply, I had some large Harmonix feet around and replaced the still points and the difference was huge. I have recently purchased some Dalby feet for one of my turntables and the sound in credible but at a stupid price. I basically like the sound of wood it seems far more gentle sounding than steel or aluminium. If I were looking at spending still point money I would consider Harmonix as they make a range of nice sounding feet that are highly musical. At a more sensible level the townshend feet are amazingly good value in the scheme of over priced hifi and hard to beet no aggression at all and very musical sounding and the platforms are fantastic I use the podium under my speakers and boy do they work.

There is anouther nice sounding foot out there that LFD produce for there components and not bad looking they are based on soilid brass nikel plated with a sorbothane like isolation pad they worked very well under my shindo garrard much more cohesive than the large type 6 still points I have here just more human sounding. I find hard materials sound hard generally. I agree still points can work with something else like the townshend platform but also depends on the particular component. The harmonix large 202zx foot sounds far nice in my opinion if you like a warmer presentation the still points are cleaner but can be a bit too hard for my ears. Again its all down to apllication. Than we go into the wonderful world of shun mook and dalby who to my ears have some really amazing feet but at crazy prices. I personally would look at the townshend platform with the lfd foot on top if I were using a garrard or a 124 as from what I have heard they compliment very well and not stupidly over priced.

The world of Hifi can get really crazy and there are just so many isolation products obviously one can get really carried away they are mind boggling products out there like the Minus K and the Herzan ts 140 then we have the classic vibraplane and the tmc Isolation platforms all injecting some magic in many ways. Products like the seismic sink introduce some of this majic to a wider audience and are fuss free good honest bits of kit that do offer great performance. if I had the energy I could write pages on all the various feet and platforms I have gone through and where they work best.

Maybe the best thing would be to get your garrard and have a listen and decide what kind of presentation you are trying to achieve ie something a bit warmer or a something a bit faster and cleaner. Or you could start of with something safe like the townshend platform for main isolation and try adding other feet in between the turntable and platform latter on to tune things further.

I tend to first get the main isolation sorted they try adding other products for a bit of Majic.

[Yomanze]

I use an acrylic base with 4x large Bright Star IsoNodes. Works well for me. Effectively decouples it from the cabinet. Can stamp around with no driver pumping.

However, a better upgrade was buying a 2.5m RCA cable for my phono stage and moving the TT out of my (open plan) living room and into the dining room alcove. It was previously right near a speaker.

[nickbaba]

Thanks so far everyone - perhaps I should add a bit more detail to my OP.
I'm interested in isolation feet for a heavy, high mass wooden plinth that will house a Garrard 401. The reason is to de-couple and isolate the TT from environmental vibration e.g. the speakers, footsteps in the room, passing traffic, washing machines etc etc anything that could feedback into the TT, tonearm and cartridge. The plinth would be standing on a heavy MDF built-in sideboard that is attached to both the wall and floor (engineered wooden floor).

At the moment the plinth itself has no feet, which also leaves me the option to leave the feet off entirely and place the plinth flat directly onto an isolating platform like the Townshend. If I have understood correctly the increased surface area in contact with the platform can be of benefit to the isolation.
I could also attach some kind of coupling feet to the plinth e.g. spikes and then stand it on a platform. Or I could fit some isolating feet (eg Townshend pods) under the plinth and stand it directly on the sideboard, no platform.

Hugo - thanks for your thoughts, I've seen you recommend the Townshend platform elsewhere on here. (It's a pricey option for me as the TT + plinth will weigh-in over 35kg and the high-weight spec pods + platform is over £700 total.) Would you recommend placing the plinth directly onto the platform or putting some kind of hard feet or spikes inbetween? On the subject of looks, the platform is quite elegant, it's the pods I think look a bit fugly... unfortunately remind me of those cheap little pod speakers people attach to their laptops.
Thanks also for the clear info about the Stillpoints - I was not aware at all that they do in fact couple, and indeed as far as I could tell on their own website they seem to be claiming that the Stillpoints isolate.

[Ammonite Audio]

Stillpoints don't do themselves any favours by using the term 'isolation' since their products patently do not operate as isolators, but they are magnificent couplers when used between sensitive equipment such and turntables and a sensibly designed isolation platform. So, to answer your question, I do think that hard coupling feet should be placed between the bottom of your plinth and the isolation platform. Hardwood cones can be very good in that role and I would definitely not use any audiophile spike.

To expand on what I wrote earlier, a sensible support for a sensitive device such as a turntable should start by preventing ground and structure-borne vibration from passing up through the floor/walls etc and then into the equipment. That's why townshend platforms have springy feet but those feet are sensibly designed to be damped as much as is desirable, height adjustable and perhaps more importantly stable in use. Only springs can prevent truly low frequency energy from passing. Next, whatever vibration energy originating within the equipment (eg turntable) needs somewhere to go and here we are talking about noise from motor systems as well as that which is passed from the stylus, through the tonearm and into the plinth. A massy plinth can do a lot to absorb and disperse such vibration energy, but it's a good idea to provide a clear drain path from the plinth into another structure designed to absorb and disperse vibrations in an orderly fashion. That clear drain path is achieved by hard coupling the equipment to the supporting structure. That supporting structure needs to be a heavy platform (mass attracts energy) with sensibly designed damping and the Townshend platforms do that in a notably slimline form. So, in combination, a sensibly designed support platform will stop structure-borne vibrations from passing up to the equipment through walls, floors etc, while also providing a drain path for vibrations arising inside the equipment. None of this is rocket science but Townshend to offer a ready-made product that does work, and magnificently so in the case of turntables.


Thanks so far everyone - perhaps I should add a bit more detail to my OP.
I'm interested in isolation feet for a heavy, high mass wooden plinth that will house a Garrard 401. The reason is to de-couple and isolate the TT from environmental vibration e.g. the speakers, footsteps in the room, passing traffic, washing machines etc etc anything that could feedback into the TT, tonearm and cartridge. The plinth would be standing on a heavy MDF built-in sideboard that is attached to both the wall and floor (engineered wooden floor).

At the moment the plinth itself has no feet, which also leaves me the option to leave the feet off entirely and place the plinth flat directly onto an isolating platform like the Townshend. If I have understood correctly the increased surface area in contact with the platform can be of benefit to the isolation.
I could also attach some kind of coupling feet to the plinth e.g. spikes and then stand it on a platform. Or I could fit some isolating feet (eg Townshend pods) under the plinth and stand it directly on the sideboard, no platform.

Hugo - thanks for your thoughts, I've seen you recommend the Townshend platform elsewhere on here. (It's a pricey option for me as the TT + plinth will weigh-in over 35kg and the high-weight spec pods + platform is over £700 total.) Would you recommend placing the plinth directly onto the platform or putting some kind of hard feet or spikes inbetween? On the subject of looks, the platform is quite elegant, it's the pods I think look a bit fugly... unfortunately remind me of those cheap little pod speakers people attach to their laptops.
Thanks also for the clear info about the Stillpoints - I was not aware at all that they do in fact couple, and indeed as far as I could tell on their own website they seem to be claiming that the Stillpoints isolate.

[Vrajbasi]

The townshend platform does sound excellent under Garrards but as mentioned elsewhere I would use something in between the still points in my opinion sound a bit took forward and dont do too well with the garrard. I have also heard a RJC platform some years back that was made for the garrard that was a wooden box effectively with the townshend pod incorporated the sound was even better than the townshend platform it had a warmer earthy sound that suited the garrard well. Townshend does offer a good product available who cant quite go into the esoteric world of isolation like the Herzan and Minus k. Max townshend came up with a winner with the original seismic sink and has improved it over the years bringing sensible vibration control to a wider audience some of the more serious offerings cost thousands and yes they do work . I have a few townshend pods knocking around that I use when experimenting you would be most welcome to try them and see what you think. I also have other feet and bits and bobs in my draws.

[nickbaba]

Looks like Townshend is the recommendation then!

[nickbaba]

Thanks for the offer Nari - I might take you up on that once everything's assembled for the TT project. Still 4 or 5 weeks away.

[tlscapital]

Mmh ! I'm more of a "basic" phono boy when it comes to all that is not mechanical or electrical in my phono gear set-up. Inertia is crucial for the turntables to perform optimistically and this is achieved by the plinth mass. To isolate the turntable from vibrations, one either find "absorbent" material or "de-couple" it from transmitting build and material.

So I added mass to my solid beechwood plinth and fitted it with thick sorbothane feet. It's OK enough for me as I play my 45 rpms while the platter is revolving and drop and pick-up the stylus by hand and need so I need my turntable set high on a sturdy wall mounted cabinet. Mind you sorbothane material needs to be calculated to work optimistically.

Other effective, more complex and roomy turntable stand (for other use than 45 rpms play time) DIY design isolation turntable support is the ultra heavy "sand box" hung up in mid air on heavy duty building stands. Minimizing to almost nil point vibration transmission and providing inert enough through gravity support for the turntable. Impressive looking on top of it !

[nickbaba]

Further reading seems to suggest that a non-suspended TT won't need isolating feet and/or platform at all if its standing on a sturdy wall-mounted shelf?

[YNWaN]

Walls do not exist outside of vibration coupling issues and, in some cases, can be worse than the floor. Stud walls, or non-structure supporting walls, are actively worse than all but very poor floor surfaces and many speakers are capable of passing significant structure born vibration into even load supporting walls.

[Mikeandvan]

Walls do not exist outside of vibration coupling issues and, in some cases, can be worse than the floor. Stud walls, or non-structure supporting walls, are actively worse than all but very poor floor surfaces and many speakers are capable of passing significant structure born vibration into even load supporting walls.

Especially if you've a restaurants extractor fan stuck to your wall.

[Primalsea]

If you have a 401 I think that just mass dampening may be the way to go first, as you can knock something up very cheaply, just for appraisal. I didn't realise that your TT was a 401. They are quite heavy and the weight is not distributed evenly. My 401 sits in a slate plinth with plaster filled chromed tubes for legs. The cabinet is pine but completely lined with 18mm MDF inside. The whole lot is very heavy and there is no appreciable feedback from vibrations. I do have a solid floor with 20m oak boards. It may be a very different situation with a suspended floor though.

[nickbaba]

Ah - OK, so the wall won't save me!

I think I'll approach things in stages - the plinth itself will be large and heavy, and I'll fit it with solid feet (probably oak cones). So firstly I'll experiment with the dampening properties of the plinth itself, and from there experiment with different methods of isolating the TT if needed.

[WESTLOWER]

Ah - OK, so the wall won't save me!

I think I'll approach things in stages - the plinth itself will be large and heavy, and I'll fit it with solid feet (probably oak cones). So firstly I'll experiment with the dampening properties of the plinth itself, and from there experiment with different methods of isolating the TT if needed.

Errr.. I think we maybe taking things to the extreme...
A TT on a well designed wall shelf fixed to a sturdy (Not stud) wall will pretty much isolate it from room traffic vibrations
And anything else that would potentially compromise the sound. Had one for years with a suspension based TT and it worked incredibly well, as expected.

[Ammonite Audio]

Errr.. I think we maybe taking things to the extreme...
A TT on a well designed wall shelf fixed to a sturdy (Not stud) wall will pretty much isolate it from room traffic vibrations
And anything else that would potentially compromise the sound. Had one for years with a suspension based TT and it worked incredibly well, as expected.

Actually not. There is usually a great deal of vibration passed up through the house walls from passing pedestrians, traffic, as well as from internal sources like washing machines, pumps etc. A record player is a very sensitive vibration measuring device - it would not play records if that was not the case, and it is incredibly susceptible to external vibration. A suspended deck on a wall shelf is inherently fairly immune because it has sprung suspension, so the sensitive bits ought to be well isolated. A solid deck, however massy, is most definitely not immune and some form of isolation placed between the deck and the wall shelf is therefore a good thing.

There’s nothing foo nor fancy about this, just basic physics, and basic mass-spring theory is your saviour.

[WESTLOWER]

Actually not. There is usually a great deal of vibration passed up through the house walls from passing pedestrians, traffic, as well as from internal sources like washing machines, pumps etc. A record player is a very sensitive vibration measuring device - it would not play records if that was not the case, and it is incredibly susceptible to external vibration. A suspended deck on a wall shelf is inherently fairly immune because it has sprung suspension, so the sensitive bits ought to be well isolated. A solid deck, however massy, is most definitely not immune and some form of isolation placed between the deck and the wall shelf is therefore a good thing.

There’s nothing foo nor fancy about this, just basic physics, and basic mass-spring theory is your saviour.

Point taken Hugo, I had a suspension deck on the wall shelf, which is why I said it was very effective.. OP will be using a solid mass plinth based deck.

[da2222]

A spring-based isolation platform should be fairly simple to DIY for little money, not sure it's necessary to spend £££ to achieve similar results. A thin base plus something like these perhaps? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4x-HiFi-Spring-suspension-Float-speaker-Spike-CD-Amp-Stand-Base-Isolator-feet/232181690743?hash=item360f1b7177:g:7p0AAOSwA3dYWpt i

[nickbaba]

Out of interest, Adam, how do you have your 401 situated? I know you have an RC cherry plinth - do you have it isolated somehow? Did you fit feet to the plinth?

[Ammonite Audio]

A spring-based isolation platform should be fairly simple to DIY for little money, not sure it's necessary to spend £££ to achieve similar results. A thin base plus something like these perhaps? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4x-HiFi-Spring-suspension-Float-speaker-Spike-CD-Amp-Stand-Base-Isolator-feet/232181690743?hash=item360f1b7177:g:7p0AAOSwA3dYWpt i

Spring isolators are not technically difficult to DIY and Keith Howard even wrote an article about this in one of the mags last year. The difficult part is actually in the practical implementation and particularly ensuring that any springs are stable in use, and won't wobble all over the place.

[Primalsea]

This info may be helpful for going down the compliant isolation route. I still think that the mass approach is the best to try at first because it is easier and cheaper to test, bags of sand, paving slabs, sheets of metal, etc.. it will look like a dogs dinner while testing but after you can invest in nicer things afterwards. The isolation route is a bit more complicated and I am not sure how you would need to deal with the uneven weight distribution of a 401. Maybe you have to add weights to even it all out or maybe the there are platforms that can deal with this but adjusting a spung platform to be level wil throw out the isolation I think.

https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?58626-Vibration-Isolation-Info

[Jac Hawk]

I'm a bit late to this party but i use the SRM Tech silent base on my Planar 3, it does a fantastic job in keeping vibration from the plinth and it also allows you to decouple the motor from the plinth too which on a Rega deck is normally attached directly to the underside of the plinth.

The base sits on 3 conical feet and is made from 10mm acrylic, the 3 feet from the Rega plinth are removed and the whole deck sits on 3 sorbothane domes, there is a circular rubber cup on the acrylic base and the motor is removed from the plinth and is held securely in the cup.


In my opinion it does a fantastic job in removing not only motor noise but also external vibration. think it cost me £125 and it has transformed the Rege.

[Ammonite Audio]

Uneven mass can be addressed by specifying different stiffness for each supporting spring so the fundamental resonance remains the same all round. That’s precisely why Townshend will make platforms with different spec pods to suit individual applications where mass distribution varies, eg valve amplifiers as well as turntables.


This info may be helpful for going down the compliant isolation route. I still think that the mass approach is the best to try at first because it is easier and cheaper to test, bags of sand, paving slabs, sheets of metal, etc.. it will look like a dogs dinner while testing but after you can invest in nicer things afterwards. The isolation route is a bit more complicated and I am not sure how you would need to deal with the uneven weight distribution of a 401. Maybe you have to add weights to even it all out or maybe the there are platforms that can deal with this but adjusting a spung platform to be level wil throw out the isolation I think.

https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?58626-Vibration-Isolation-Info

[nickbaba]

So... in terms of hard coupling, is there anything the Stillpoint Ultras can do that a simple hardwood cone can't, and at a fraction of the cost?

[Primalsea]

I’m generally unconvinced by the various boutique isolation and coupling products. Some companies will supply you with something proper that has been configured for your equipment and these are good if you go down the sprung isolation route. I’m sure that for many of the fancy feet you can get the same result using a good solid set of wood or metal cones.

[walpurgis]

I'm suspicious of fancy, blingy feet that combine hard points and cups with soft isolating compliances. I mean, where's the flippin' benefit? It's just meaningless Hi-Fi 'jewellery' if you ask me.

[WESTLOWER]

Out of interest, Adam, how do you have your 401 situated? I know you have an RC cherry plinth - do you have it isolated somehow? Did you fit feet to the plinth?

I have 8mm screwed feet (adjustable) with Sorbothane domes fixed to the bottom of them, my plinth is on a solid Sapele Box Furniture rack, which is ridiculously solid. That sits on an original wooden suspension floor and I can’t hear any vibration problems from foot traffic or anything else. Even with 30kg bulldogs trundling around ..... I tried spikes, hard coupling on the deck at first and it was bloody awful. Literally caused a bass feedback loop!
I suppose my current setup can be improved further but as said, I get no vibration problems and it sounds great to these old ears..

[AJSki2fly]

Actually not. There is usually a great deal of vibration passed up through the house walls from passing pedestrians, traffic, as well as from internal sources like washing machines, pumps etc. A record player is a very sensitive vibration measuring device - it would not play records if that was not the case, and it is incredibly susceptible to external vibration. A suspended deck on a wall shelf is inherently fairly immune because it has sprung suspension, so the sensitive bits ought to be well isolated. A solid deck, however massy, is most definitely not immune and some form of isolation placed between the deck and the wall shelf is therefore a good thing.

There’s nothing foo nor fancy about this, just basic physics, and basic mass-spring theory is your saviour.

Yep, I quite agree, I have my turntable mounted on a Audio Suspension shelf, essentially an acrylic 30mm shelf held at 2 points at the read to the wall and then suspended by 2 stainless steel cables run diagonally from the wall above down to the front corners. The whole lot sits 1m behind the speakers to try and minimise impact by air born vibration(music). I downloaded a simple Vibration measuring app to my iPhone(it uses the quite sensitive accelerometers in the phone) and placed this on the shelf and when playing music and when everything else sounds quiet there is no significant vibration detected. However if I lightly tap the wall on the other side(an internal wall) or jump on the floor then vibration is detected, and I am sure as you point out other externally induced vibrations would be detected. If I place the iPhone on the platter and do the same then what is detected is much less, so the spring suspension of the turntable is doing some damping. So isolating a turntable from external vibration is not as simple as it may seem.

Many years ago I worked as a a lab technician at the Wolfson Sound and Vibration laboratory and conducted a variety of experiments measuring and recording vibrations and their impact. These were in the lab or out on site to determine the impact of vibrations to others in the near vicinity. What I found interesting at the time was just how far some vibrations would travel and could be measured, low frequencies can go a long way, but this is dependant the density of the land(material) it travels through.

I also noticed someone advocating using springs in a vibration damping system, my understanding is this is not a simple matter as it may seem, this is because all springs have an inherent resonant frequency, and this can cause oscillations if provoked. Having experimented with spring set ups to dampen the front suspension on a Morgan car I know only too well how tricky this can be. For example if a spring is already preloaded how it will react to vibrations or forces exerted on it will be dependant of the load it is already under and also what is the maximum it can effectively be deflected before it becomes stiff/rigid. Shock absorbers are also used to try and dampen the initial impact on the spring and to stop it being fully compressed quickly and to also slow it returning to its steady state. Most springs are wound in such a way that they are linear in how they react, however in some applications springs are wound so that the coils are progressively tighter, in this way the spring can react in a progressive manner across a larger range, as I understand it. Anyway I am not an engineer and do not understand the applied mathematics involved, but understand the basic principles involved. I think to create a spring loaded platform to try and limit the transfer of a range of frequency vibrations from a turntable would be a challenging and taxing thing to do, but probably very interesting.

[WESTLOWER]

Yep, I quite agree, I have my turntable mounted on a Audio Suspension shelf, essentially an acrylic 30mm shelf held at 2 points at the read to the wall and then suspended by 2 stainless steel cables run diagonally from the wall above down to the front corners. The whole lot sits 1m behind the speakers to try and minimise impact by air born vibration(music). I downloaded a simple Vibration measuring app to my iPhone(it uses the quite sensitive accelerometers in the phone) and placed this on the shelf and when playing music and when everything else sounds quiet there is no significant vibration detected. However if I lightly tap the wall on the other side(an internal wall) or jump on the floor then vibration is detected, and I am sure as you point out other externally induced vibrations would be detected. If I place the iPhone on the platter and do the same then what is detected is much less, so the spring suspension of the turntable is doing some damping. So isolating a turntable from external vibration is not as simple as it may seem
I don’t think anyone suggested it was a simple thing to isolate a TT. But as with most things in this field, there has is a compromise to be had. So the wall shelf ensemble worked for you as long as someone didn’t tap on the wall behind it or indeed jump up and down on the floor.
I agree there has to be a degree of decoupling with the TT on it’s solid base, be it shelf or rack. The sorbothane feet certainly offer a big improvement over hard coupling all the way.

[AJSki2fly]

I don’t think anyone suggested it was a simple thing to isolate a TT. But as with most things in this field, there has is a compromise to be had. So the wall shelf ensemble worked for you as long as someone didn’t tap on the wall behind it or indeed jump up and down on the floor.

I was not picking up on what anyone had said just trying to make an observation of how hard it can be to isolate something from variations or effectively damp it.

Yes that's right, my set up seems reasonably OK, certainly not perfect and no doubt could be better. The shelf is attached to a dot and dab wall, so plasterboard stuck onto thermalite blocks, I suspect the blocks may be helping as they are effectively full of lots of little air bubble and are pretty sound dead, so may be absorbing some of the vibrations from outside. Someone did tell me that acrylic is good at being less prone to vibration induced resonance, I presume thats why a few TT designs have used it for plinths, or maybe its a cost effective material that can look good. I'm thinking of buying some pre-cut and sticking some sorbothane to it and then using as a platform on the shelf under the turntable to see the effect. I know it may have a negative effect but might be interesting and it is relatively cheap to do.

[WESTLOWER]

I was not picking up on what anyone had said just trying to make an observation of how hard it can be to isolate something from variations or effectively damp it.

Yes that's right, my set up seems reasonably OK, certainly not perfect and no doubt could be better. The shelf is attached to a dot and dab wall, so plasterboard stuck onto thermalite blocks, I suspect the blocks may be helping as they are effectively full of lots of little air bubble and are pretty sound dead, so may be absorbing some of the vibrations from outside. Someone did tell me that acrylic is good at being less prone to vibration induced resonance, I presume thats why a few TT designs have used it for plinths, or maybe its a cost effective material that can look good. I'm thinking of buying some pre-cut and sticking some sorbothane to it and then using as a platform on the shelf under the turntable to see the effect. I know it may have a negative effect but might be interesting and it is relatively cheap to do.

I think that approach to a diy platform would bring good results for very little money.

[tlscapital]

If you're system is clean as clear in sound and no one can hear a breath through your speakers while the volume on your power amp is to the max and no music is playing; tap on the support of your turntable (401) and if you can hear it through your speakers, this means it's feet are not isolating it ! Your OP was about turntable feet. Now it's taken the course of the overall isolation thing...

So on a solid one block coupled turntable where there arm rests on the same (even attached to) foundation as the platter like a 401 for example, the turntable base requires even more isolation from it's support than from a turntable with suspended chassis or sub-chassis design. Not dismissing that ideally a turntable support is to be sturdy and de-coupled from any "vibrant" transmitting structure.

Concrete and/or solid walls are good at that just like concrete floors. But then we are far from the turntable feet issue which is a subject on it's own to be taken care of any which way if ever that is. Considering all is well calibrated in the phono set-up, such overall phono set-up inertia "heaven" will allow a much sharper sonic "image" to be seen and heard. I have seen it, now I am a believer.

[nickbaba]

As OP I think the wider isolation discussion is relevant, given that I asked about TT feet in the context of how people are isolating their non-suspended TTs.
To be fair I hadn't thought that much about isolation (current TT is a 1210 with Isonoe feet standing on a 20mm slab of granite, seems fine) and I have learned a lot over the course of this thread, for instance that maybe isolating feet aren't sufficient, and perhaps a better way to go would be coupling feet/spikes stood on an isolating platform...
Altho', in my setup and with my ears, the last few % of total and utter isolation is pretty much irrelevant. To be honest, if I turn my power amp all the way up, far before I get to full volume I already hear hum from my components. That's just something I've been meaning to sort out and it's to do with the fact that due to space constraints in the living room I have all my bits (SUT, TT PSU, phono stage, preamp etc) all too close to each other... but in practical terms, at normal listening levels I don't hear it so it's not at the top of my to do list... so in terms of isolation I just need enough so that my tonearm doesn't jump if I walk past it, or a bus goes by outside. I very much doubt whether I personally would reach the point of being able to hear the effect of airborne feedback in my system!

[Vrajbasi]

I very much doubt whether I personally would reach the point of being able to hear the effect of airborne feedback in my system!

I would be shocked if you did not, I remember in the old days remembering a certain turntable manufacturer commenting one could hear the different sizes of springs in a turntable suspension and one sure can.

I have learnt everything makes a different I have wested a small fortune all hiden from her in doors of course learning the hard way. With a garrard and any non sprung turntable, I would take extra care as possible to get it isolated. Even My micro seiki 8000 with its air suspension, air bearing and massive platter that by most peoples standards sounds much much much better with the Minus K, Herzan and Vibraplane plaforms and even then I can hear what different types of feet add to the party the quest goes on and on. Imagine even the type of material used for a arm board makes a difference brass has its sound, as does steel or aluminium as does different woods etc and each work different with different arms everything makes a difference we might prefer one against the other thats a different story. A great deal of turntable designers choose not to suspend there turntables mainly because of cost restraints and complexity there have been extreme products like the Continuum and Rockports and Micro Seikis and a few others that have adapted industrial isolation solutions to get take it to the highest levels but at crazy prices.

If I were buying a deck especially spending £3000 plus spending £700 on a townshend platform is a good buy considering the improvements. A friend of mine just purchased a platform for his £30000 systemdek reference and commented how big the difference is and the systemdek has an excellent suspension that really works.

[montesquieu]

Sorry - late to this as was away for a week on hols.

I'm generally an arch-skeptic in the tweakery department but the improvement for me of the Townshend Seismic pods over sorbothane threaded feet was clearly audible right from the off and I was sold pretty much instantly. This on a TD124 MkII with the Schopper platter and bearing fitted, in one of Russ's layered cherry plinths, a moderately large one 620mm x 480, something like 40-50kg with everything fitted up. I guess much of it depends what's going on in your room and what you have by way of supports already but for me the cleaner lower register actually came as something of a surprise - I was not expecting so obvious an improvement.

[p147]

I bought a pack of these some time ago for my father in law and they work wonders, and for the small outlay certainly worth it.
Vulcanised ice hockey rubber pucks.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pack-Of-5-Ice-Hockey-Pucks-Black/201898572360?hash=item2f0217ba48:g:tRgAAOSwridaAxP i

[nickbaba]

More votes for the Townshend, looks like a clear winner by this point.

Nari - I don't doubt that you can hear such subtle differences as different spring sizes and what-have-you, I just doubt my own ability to hear such things, having some experience with micro-tweaks on that level I basically can't hear any difference at all e.g. between one type of mains cable and another, one decent interconnect vs another etc etc I'm not saying that those subtle differences don't exist, I'm saying that my room and most likely my ears are not at that level of resolving fine detail that it makes any difference to me. And that sort of concern is way way up the curve of diminishing returns for me anyway, past the point that I would be bothering to spend money on improving things.
I would say I don't consider myself an audiophile in the sense of someone on an obsessive quest for audio perfection, although it's a noble quest and an entertaining hobby and for that reason one never really wants the quest to end, after all that would be no fun. But I am a musician and a recording engineer/producer who is also a music fan, especially on vinyl, and I know when music sounds good to me. I have fun experimenting with my system and always open to change and improvement but mostly I'm happy to paddle about in the shallow end of the audiophile pool, and just enjoy the music.

[Vrajbasi]

More votes for the Townshend, looks like a clear winner by this point.

Nari - I don't doubt that you can hear such subtle differences as different spring sizes and what-have-you, I just doubt my own ability to hear such things, having some experience with micro-tweaks on that level I basically can't hear any difference at all e.g. between one type of mains cable and another, one decent interconnect vs another etc etc I'm not saying that those subtle differences don't exist, I'm saying that my room and most likely my ears are not at that level of resolving fine detail that it makes any difference to me. And that sort of concern is way way up the curve of diminishing returns for me anyway, past the point that I would be bothering to spend money on improving things.
I would say I don't consider myself an audiophile in the sense of someone on an obsessive quest for audio perfection, although it's a noble quest and an entertaining hobby and for that reason one never really wants the quest to end, after all that would be no fun. But I am a musician and a recording engineer/producer who is also a music fan, especially on vinyl, and I know when music sounds good to me. I have fun experimenting with my system and always open to change and improvement but mostly I'm happy to paddle about in the shallow end of the audiophile pool, and just enjoy the music.

Ultimately one can only determine if something makes an audible difference by listening and generally living with it for a while, personally if you can hear the difference between two different turntables than you certainly hear the difference isolation makes. I would certainly vouch for an townshend platform you could even look out for a used Vibraplane which is in another class all together I have seen them pop up from time to time. They are quite heavy mind but boy do they sound amazing.And you start of the thread looking for better feet etc so you are certainly looking for an improvement and you can certainly achieve one. Changing feet etc will not be as dramatic as the Townshend/ vibraplane.

[WESTLOWER]

Ultimately one can only determine if something makes an audible difference by listening and generally living with it for a while, personally if you can hear the difference between two different turntables than you certainly hear the difference isolation makes. I would certainly vouch for an townshend platform you could even look out for a used Vibraplane which is in another class all together I have seen them pop up from time to time. They are quite heavy mind but boy do they sound amazing.And you start of the thread looking for better feet etc so you are certainly looking for an improvement and you can certainly achieve one. Changing feet etc will not be as dramatic as the Townshend/ vibraplane.

Interesting product that Vibraplane..
But Wow! most folk would certainly need a second hand Vibraplane isolation platform as the retail looks something like $5,500....and you have to keep an air compressor unit in the listening room.
This really does sound like DIVORCE territory!! ;)

[nickbaba]

Yes I started the thread asking about feet because I'm having a plinth built right now and wondered what kind/type of feet I should fit to it, thinking that some kind of suspended isolation feet would be enough in and of themselves to do the job. But I see the sense of combining them with a constrained layer platform to further dampen vibration. I've been in touch with Les at Soundeck and he had an 8mm thick 500x400cm plate of constrained layer SDS which I could combine with 4 Townshend feet to make a budget platform for around £500.

[tlscapital]

Townshend feet seem to be an efficient product even if I do find them rather expensive for what they are. Now they recommend them for every other bit of the phono gear as well...

Where it puzzles me some is how such sensitive feet can manage to balance unevenly distributed weight (platter, motor, tonearm...) from a heavy turntable that needs to stay leveled ?

[montesquieu]

Townshend feet seem to be an efficient product even if I do find them rather expensive for what they are. Now they recommend them for every other bit of the phono gear as well...

Where it puzzles me some is how such sensitive feet can manage to balance unevenly distributed weight (platter, motor, tonearm...) from a heavy turntable that needs to stay leveled ?

The height / strength of each spring can be adjusted individually and also something can be achieved by sensible placement - they don’t all have to go in the outside corners. I had no trouble levelling a decidedly asymmetric TD124 setup.

[nickbaba]

Now they recommend them for every other bit of the phono gear as well...

Of course they do..! ;)

[nickbaba]

Where it puzzles me some is how such sensitive feet can manage to balance unevenly distributed weight

There are several different models of feet rated for different weight loads. By combining them you can compensate for uneven weight distribution, as I will have to do with the 401.

[Vrajbasi]

Interesting product that Vibraplane..
But Wow! most folk would certainly need a second hand Vibraplane isolation platform as the retail looks something like $5,500....and you have to keep an air compressor unit in the listening room.

This really does sound like DIVORCE territory!! ;) I am talking about the passive Vibraplane the active one is certainly more specialised I have and use one you certainly cant have the compressor in the same room. I have seen a few older passive vibraplane platforms s/h for around 1k to 1500 but thats a very serious platform in a different class. If I were spending 5k I would buy one of the more serious Viraplane tables you can buy an amazing industrial table a simpliflied version of the stand for the rockport for around 5k with compressor but then you will be filing for an Decree Nisai.

Note the rockport turntables had all this intergrated 25 years back

https://s2.gifyu.com/images/11987169_889914801088336_5042480925240302396_n.jpg (https://gifyu.com/image/NDLV)

[Vrajbasi]

Of course they do..! ;)

I had the original seismic sink under every component in the 90,s and at one point had 5 stacked under the turntable up each one was an improvement all nuts. I currently use various feet etc and platforms under everything even the big Kondo amps certainly benefit from being properly mounted.