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leo
12-04-2010, 18:28
Heres a few pics and details for a diy external psu for the Technics I knocked up, I decided to use the Paul Hynes PR3 based psu after the positive write ups from other Techie users and also after great results using his other regs in my dacs . I've only just finished it so not had chance to try it with the 1210 yet , according to Paul the PR3G3HD-21 for the Techie is capable
of prodigious transient current delivery so won't have any problems upon start up for the platter

I'll add a few details how to fit it later

Some of the used parts, I also tried to get prices etc

Hammond aluminum enclosure Maplin N85AL £10:79 http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=33690

DC socket , Bits of cable, heatshrink IEC socket etc can all be had from Maplin http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=1503

Paul Hynes PR3G3HD-21 module £120 http://www.paulhynesdesign.com/ For those that can't or don't want to diy , Paul can supply a stand alone psu called SR3-21 for £270 and DC3C high performance DC lead for £35

I already had the 2 x 18v 80vA transformer as a spare http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/74766.pdf suitable types can be had from Farnell , RS , ebay etc, required secondary voltage is 18v, 2 x 80vA is probably overkill



http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj220/kingbusoms/P1040179.jpg

Paul Hynes PR3G3HD-21 for the Techie, I edited the pic and added a few details

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj220/kingbusoms/Pr3Techie.jpg

Inside after the build, theres the option to add a power on led to the PR3 module, I may add one on later

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj220/kingbusoms/P1040417.jpg

Added a few details

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj220/kingbusoms/pr31.jpg

Finished!

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj220/kingbusoms/P1040406.jpg

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj220/kingbusoms/1210input.jpg

twelvebears
12-04-2010, 20:02
Pretty neat job Leo!!

MartinT
12-04-2010, 23:02
Nice one Leo. I was thinking of using the same series case from Maplin. Which size is yours?

I now have a superteddy circuit board ready to fire up and am waiting for an 18V 50VA tranny to arrive. Going to try mine both with the Techie (21V) and the Caiman (15V).

leo
12-04-2010, 23:21
Thanks guys.

Hi Martin,

The case is the largest Maplin sell, according to the spec its 160 x 103 x 43 mm

Let us know how you get on with the TR

Cheers,
Leo

MartinT
12-04-2010, 23:29
Thanks, case ordered.

How does the PSU sound with the Techie?

leo
12-04-2010, 23:41
Hi Martin,

Not had it running the Techie long but initial impression is bloody hell:lol: I wasn't honestly expecting much difference compared to say upgrading the dacs regs, infact the improvement its brought is very clear to my ears.
Its early days but so far I notice a thick veil has been removed, bass is tighter and quicker, high's are less sibilant , the sound has better flow.

Certainly a worth while upgrade imho

Cheers,
Leo

The Vinyl Adventure
13-04-2010, 06:29
What were you using before? Just the techie's own power?

Dave Cawley
13-04-2010, 06:57
Any good PSU will improve the Technics. Some more than others. And some in different ways.

The SL-1200 is now achieving even greater heights with Mike New's bearing and the up-coming heavy solid platter (have you sent it yet Mike?)

So in true audio tradition we will have our new HE PSU next week. This achieves an instantaneous 60A peak current delivery with absolutely no negative feedback at all.

Regards

Dave

anthonyTD
13-04-2010, 08:54
Hi Martin,

Not had it running the Techie long but initial impression is bloody hell:lol: I wasn't honestly expecting much difference compared to say upgrading the dacs regs, infact the improvement its brought is very clear to my ears.
Its early days but so far I notice a thick veil has been removed, bass is tighter and quicker, high's are less sibilant , the sound has better flow.

Certainly a worth while upgrade imho

Cheers,
Leo
looking good leo!
as dave [cawley] said the technics 1210 will respond positively when powered by a well designed outboard power supply as was demonstrated with the paul hynes design on marco's turntable at the recent scalford hall meeting.
good luck with it!
A...

Marco
13-04-2010, 11:34
Nice one, Leo - this is most interesting! :)

What I like is the huge (for the purpose) f*ck-off tranny used. I'm a great believer in over-specifying transformers in PSUs, no matter their application, as experience tells me, properly implemented, it always makes a significant (easily audible) sonic improvement, even if there appears no 'logical' explanation for it based on measurements.

Hi Dave,

Does the HE PSU use as big a transformer, and if not, why not?

The reason I ask is that the answer you give *could* have an impact on which new PSU I buy for use with the new platter - an HE PSU, a Paul Hynes, one of Leo's, or get Anthony to make me an 'extra-special, super-duper' bespoke one.....

Basically, I guess what I'm looking for is you to 'sell' me the benefits of the HE PSU, which you feel makes it a better product than those of your competitors.

More info such as "This achieves an instantaneous 60A peak current delivery with absolutely no negative feedback at all" would be good, along with a layman's explanation for why this is liable to improve performance. Perhaps Leo or Anthony could comment here, too?

A list of 'features and benefits' of the HE PSU, in the form of bullet points, over and above those of the standard Time Step PSU, would be ideal. I'd like to know where the improvements over the current model have been made, and for what purpose.

Cheers! :cool:

Marco.

Marco
13-04-2010, 12:04
Perhaps also Paul Hynes could 'sell' me what he considers are the benefits of his best PSU design (since I note he's on-line now) over those of his competitors?

This is not an excuse for a 'battle' between our respective trade members, incidentally, merely an opportunity for any members interested (and of course the whole of the Internet) to get the full 'low-down' on what they might consider (for them) as being the 'best' PSU for the SL-1200/1210.

I should point out that AOS (or me) is completely impartial on the matter. It's all about competing manufacturers/dealers promoting their respective products fairly and squarely and having an effective (and constructive) platform to do that. This is what being a trade member here is all about :)

Marco.

leo
13-04-2010, 12:53
What were you using before? Just the techie's own power?

Hi Hamish,

I've not had the Technics long so this psu upgrades the stock version. I could have drawn something up onto copper clad using something like a circuit based around an LM1084 and etched my own board but tbh it wouldn't have been half as good as the discrete PH module, for less than 200 quid you get an excellent performing psu which is why I posted details into the diy room ;)

Cheers,
Leo

anthonyTD
13-04-2010, 12:58
hi all,
well,,, i'l break the ice and give my take on the requirements needed to control and hence stablise the requirements of the 1210 motor.
first of all we need to understand why the power supply is so important on a turntable motor in the first place.
from the moment the needle hits the record the motor of any turntable wether it be direct drive [1210] idler drive 301, 401 etc or belt drive is under a constant battle to try and keep the turntable at exactly the right speed in order to maintain the pitch impact and acuracy of the recording, this is not an easy task as the record grooves are exerting a constantly varying drag on the needle hence having the affect of trying to slow the turntable down, my example, when you were a kid did you ever turn your bike upside down and turn the pedals until the back wheel was up to speed? if so did you ever try to grab at the wheel and try to stop it? well if you can imagine thats what the needle is trying to do on the record,,, all be it at a minute amount but at many, many times a second and at varying amount of severity! this is why it is important that you have a power supply that can cope with the varying amounts of current needed to keep the motor up to exactly the right speed at all demands of signal amplitude and complexity.
if your using a direct drive turntable as in the 1210 it is of the utmost importance to get this right as unlike other turntable designs where they can to a degree use the weight of a heavy platter hence taking advantage of the flywheel affect the 1210 dosent realy have that advantage, idler drive turntables can be somewhere in the middle of the two.
i hope this helps.
as stated this is my take on things, others may have their own ideas, lets wait and see.
A...

leo
13-04-2010, 13:09
Hi marco,

I think some folks prefer to let the performance of their product do the talking rather than go around hyping things themself;)

I used the 2 x 80vA traffo for a reason, its probably way overkill for the Techie but I intend trying this psu with other things too, the trimmer pot allows adjustment to the output voltage making it quite handy, the regulator is also capable of driving heavy loads without breaking a sweat, its not just good at driving heavy loads but also very low noise and output impedance which makes it ideal for many other app's I want to try it with

Cheers,
Leo

leo
13-04-2010, 13:11
hi all,
well,,, i'l break the ice and give my take on the requirements needed to control and hence stablise the requirements of the 1210 motor.
first of all we need to understand why the power supply is so important on a turntable motor in the first place.
from the moment the needle hits the record the motor of any turntable wether it be direct drive [1210] idler drive 301, 401 etc or belt drive is under a constant battle to try and keep the turntable at exactly the right speed in order to maintain the pitch impact and acuracy of the recording, this is not an easy task as the record grooves are exerting a constantly varying drag on the needle hence having the affect of trying to slow the turntable down, my example, when you were a kid did you ever turn your bike upside down and turn the pedals until the back wheel was up to speed? if so did you ever try to grab at the wheel and try to stop it? well if you can imagine thats what the needle is trying to do on the record,,, all be it at a minute amount but at many, many times a second and at varying amount of severity! this is why it is important that you have a power supply that can cope with the varying amounts of current needed to keep the motor up to exactly the right speed at all demands of signal amplitude and complexity.
if your using a direct drive turntable as in the 1210 it is of the utmost importance to get this right as unlike other turntable designs where they can to a degree use the weight of a heavy platter hence taking advantage of the flywheel affect the 1210 dosent realy have that advantage, idler drive turntables can be somewhere in the middle of the two.
i hope this helps.
as stated this is my take on things, others may have their own ideas, lets wait and see.
A...

Nice one A ! Thank you for the info, these are the posts we want

Sorry I posted short, the site is running extremely slow for me at the moment

Marco
13-04-2010, 13:25
Excellent, Anthony - now all I need to know is whose PSU design best optimises what you've just described!!! ;)

Hi Leo,


I think some folks prefer to let the performance of their product do the talking rather than go around hyping things themself.


That's fine - I understand that, but how then does someone like me choose what he thinks will best do the job without any 'sound quality information' with which to make an informed choice, prior to purchase, other than buying all the available options and comparing them, which is of course impractical and also expensive! :)

What I need is for the likes of Paul Hynes or Dave C to put forward a 'case' as to why they consider their designs best for the job - in effect, what their design aims/principles were for their products, so that I can then use that information to decide which PSUs to buy or audition.

Do you see my point? I like to know something about a product before I buy it, other than just a list of what's inside. It's no use saying what components are used unless I know what they're designed to do, sonically.........

With no disrespect to Dave, making a statement such as:


This achieves an instantaneous 60A peak current delivery with absolutely no negative feedback at all


...means bugger all, unless it's explained to me how that translates into improved audio quality, which at the end of the day is all I'm interested in.

So..............

Until Dave's back on-line after he's finished with Martin T and Hamish visiting him today, could either Anthony or you have a stab at explaining the above statement of his and what relevance it has with regard to improving the sonic performance of the SL-1200, especially in terms of the likely effect of the new heavy platter?

Cheers! :cool:

Marco.

Paul Hynes
13-04-2010, 14:18
Hello Marco,

I am not at liberty to deliver too much detail about how the regulator design works as I have entered into non-disclosure agreements, for most of my power supply designs, with my consultancy clients. I do, of course, retain the right to use these designs in my own products whether stand-alone power supplies like the SR3 or the DIY equivalent the PR3.

I no longer have access to the test equipment I used when measuring the circuitry at the design stage in the 1980’s, so I cannot give you hard and fast figures for the current specification. The circuit topology has remained the same as my original design although it has been refined a number of times since then.

The latest incarnation of the regulator topology, used in the above two products, was designed to give a fast transient response and a very low impedance over a wide bandwidth which obviously necessitates using wide bandwidth circuitry. The supply line rejection is also very good over an equally wide bandwidth. The error amp devices are noise specked at 0.5 nanovolts root Hz with a noise corner of 1 Hz and the low noise voltage reference has a further 60 dB of noise filtration, all in all, making this one of the quietest regulators around.

Current versions of both products use heavy-duty Mosfet output devices. I am not sure how much transient current is actually available, but the Mosfet manufacturers spec pulse current ratings exceeding 100 Amps with enough gate drive, and there is enough gate drive to achieve this. The limiting factor with transient current would be how much voltage sag would occur under these conditions in the energy storage capacitance I have included with the regulator designs. The wider the time period of the load transient the more the energy storage capacitance voltage would sag. It would have to have quite a long duration to affect the dropout voltage of the output mosfet, which calculates out at 2.4 volts at 100 Amps. Whether such prodigious current delivery is required for the SL1200 remains to be seen but both the SR3-21 and the PR3-21 will certainly provide more than enough current for the SL1200 motor/servo circuitry under all real world load transient conditions.

Of course the continuous current ratings would be much lower and as they would depend on the transformer rating, rectifier ratings and how fast you could remove heat from the output device. The rectifiers are rated at 5 amps continuous, 5000 Amps surge. The rectifiers will run hot at 5 amps continuous so I tend to de-rate them to 3 amps continuous for design purposes. I have had this topology running at 20 amps continuous with suitably rated components and a largish heatsink on the output device.

The most important parameter of all is the effect the SR3 power supply had on the sound of your music when fitted to your SL1200. It doesn’t really matter what the power supply measures like as long as it delivers sound quality.

Marco, I can provide you with a SR3-21 if you want to do a AoS power supply bake-off, provided you don’t mind waiting for around a month or so as my product build schedule is fully booked for a month at present.

Hi Leo, Nice build. Glad you are enjoying the results.

Regards
Paul

anthonyTD
13-04-2010, 14:29
a very informative and honest post paul!:)
A...

leo
13-04-2010, 14:43
Indeed! thank you for taking the time Paul , its much appreciated:)

Certainly agree regarding the most important parameter and for me its doing a grand job in that area:eyebrows:

Marco
13-04-2010, 15:30
Hi Paul,

Thanks very much for taking the time to supply that information. However, I'm afraid that most of it went over the top of my (non-technical) head, so............


Marco, I can provide you with a SR3-21 if you want to do a AoS power supply bake-off, provided you don’t mind waiting for around a month or so as my product build schedule is fully booked for a month at present.


Yes please, as that would be very useful. It will mean I can form my own conclusions without incurring any expense. Is this the one that Hugo has bought? :)

Perhaps Dave would also provide an HE PSU for the same purpose and I can then review both products (using my SL-1210) for all the Technics users on AOS?

This will then also allow me to decide which one to buy from a position of extensive listening experience.....

Marco.

P.S Where in Scotland are you? I'm going up to Glasgow in about a month to visit my parents, so perhaps we could meet somewhere then? :cool:

Marco
13-04-2010, 15:45
Hi Leo,


Certainly agree regarding the most important parameter and for me its doing a grand job in that area...


Could you explain what you're referring to?

Cheers! :)

Marco.

Paul Hynes
13-04-2010, 16:40
Sorry Marco,

Technicians tend to get techie without realising it sometimes. In bullet points the SR3-21 is :-

1. Very quiet.
2. Very good at mains noise rejection.
3. Very quick at reacting to load transients.
4. Capable of large transient current delivery.
5. Capable of high musical performance when used with the SL1200.

God, I’m beginning to sound like a salesman.

I think I will just let you be the judge and prepare an SR3-21 for you. I have booked it into the build schedule and will let you know when it is ready.

The SR3 now uses the heavy-duty output mosfet. Hugo’s unit was made before I introduced this upgrade, primarily to make the supply more rugged for powering class T amps like the Virtue Audio range. Happily it will ensure plenty of current for future platter upgrades, although the earlier version was no slouch in this area and should have more than enough current capability for the job at hand.

I live at the edge of the known world (The Isle of South Uist). Any further West and you fall off the edge. I am afraid it is an expensive two day round trip to Glasgow from here and time is not on my side at present. If we cross paths in the future I will be pleased to get the beer in.

Regards
Paul

leo
13-04-2010, 17:22
Hi Leo,



Could you explain what you're referring to?

Cheers! :)

Marco.



Taken from post 17 ;)

The most important parameter of all is the effect the SR3 power supply had on the sound of your music when fitted to your SL1200. It doesn’t really matter what the power supply measures like as long as it delivers sound quality.

Marco
13-04-2010, 17:29
Hi Paul,


I think I will just let you be the judge and prepare an SR3-21 for you. I have booked it into the build schedule and will let you know when it is ready.


That's great, and thanks for clarification of what you were referring to earlier in 'laymans' terms :)

Just pop me a PM when its ready - no rush; make sure you fulfil your existing schedule of work first.

South Uist, eh? Goodness me, what took you out that way - were you born there? :cool:

I've been to Skye and Orkney (which I both adored), but I would guess that South Uist is even more remote, but probably just as beautiful. Any nice fresh fish and seafood where you are for sale locally, or is that a daft question? :eyebrows:

Marco (who loves being miles from the 'rat race' and surrounded by peace and tranquility and beautiful scenery).

Paul Hynes
13-04-2010, 17:58
Hi Marco,

I wasn’t born in South Uist, but I do feel spiritually settled here. It is a wild and beautiful place with a nice clean environment. The lobster, crab, scallops, cockles, fish, scenery and sunsets are to die for.

It is a little remote, but there is a good infrastructure in the Western Isles, and I don’t miss the mainland rat race at all. The pristine fine white shell sand beaches here on the Westside are first class and you can walk them without seeing a soul most of the time. The same isolation is available in the hills. Due West from my house is Canada so the Atlantic storms can be a bit tricky from time to time, but you get used to them after a while.

My nearest neighbour is about a hundred yards away, so no conflict with the sound system. The downside is no real ale for most of the year as it is not worth the local hotels stocking it in winter. I will have to start importing some kegs. Any reclamation yards got any working hand pumps in as I am in the market for one?

I’m not coming back to the mainland.

Regards
Paul

anthonyTD
13-04-2010, 18:03
Hi Marco,

I wasn’t born in South Uist, but I do feel spiritually settled here. It is a wild and beautiful place with a nice clean environment. The lobster, crab, scallops, cockles, fish, scenery and sunsets are to die for.

It is a little remote, but there is a good infrastructure in the Western Isles, and I don’t miss the mainland rat race at all. The pristine fine white shell sand beaches here on the Westside are first class and you can walk them without seeing a soul most of the time. The same isolation is available in the hills. Due West from my house is Canada so the Atlantic storms can be a bit tricky from time to time, but you get used to them after a while.

My nearest neighbour is about a hundred yards away, so no conflict with the sound system. The downside is no real ale for most of the year as it is not worth the local hotels stocking it in winter. I will have to start importing some kegs. Any reclamation yards got any working hand pumps in as I am in the market for one?

I’m not coming back to the mainland.

Regards
Paul

hi paul,
that sounds like heaven!
send us a pic [if you can] when you get chance.
A...

Paul Hynes
13-04-2010, 19:50
Hi Anthony,

Thanks for the support on the Scalford Hall Show thread. I have a low res pics I managed to salvage of an old hard drive.

http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww7/paulhynes/Uist/DSCF0092.jpg

We made the footprints. This is our own personal swimming pool.

Regards
Paul

anthonyTD
13-04-2010, 21:15
Hi Anthony,

Thanks for the support on the Scalford Hall Show thread. I have a low res pics I managed to salvage of an old hard drive.

http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww7/paulhynes/Uist/DSCF0092.jpg

We made the footprints. This is our own personal swimming pool.

Regards
Paul
hi paul,
thats breath taking :wow:we realy do take this country for granted!
as for the other thing, credit where credits due.:)
A...

Paul Hynes
13-04-2010, 21:41
Hi Anthony,

There are a lot more beaches like this, some of them miles long, but we prefer the small coves. Nice and cosy, great for a barbecue and the water is not too cold to swim in the summer. I have found some more pics but I will refrain from posting them here, as they are somewhat off topic. I will post a few in the Abstract Gallery when I get some spare time.

Regards
Paul

anthonyTD
14-04-2010, 08:59
Hi Anthony,

There are a lot more beaches like this, some of them miles long, but we prefer the small coves. Nice and cosy, great for a barbecue and the water is not too cold to swim in the summer. I have found some more pics but I will refrain from posting them here, as they are somewhat off topic. I will post a few in the Abstract Gallery when I get some spare time.

Regards
Paul
:)

pure sound
14-04-2010, 11:46
The downside is no real ale for most of the year as it is not worth the local hotels stocking it in winter. I will have to start importing some kegs.

Make your own! Every bit as good (if not better than) pub beer if done in a pressure barrel.

http://www.muntons.com/homebeer/countries/uk/premium_gold_range.htm

Paul Hynes
14-04-2010, 13:09
Hi Puresound,

I used to make my own the traditional real way when I had plenty of time and yes it was usually as good as the best real ales. To rival the finest ales you need time and you have to be very fastidious choosing only the best ingredients. It was certainly worth it.

Thanks for the link I will file it for when I reach the point where I can start brewing again. In the mean time it will have to be kegs.

Regards
Paul

MartinT
14-04-2010, 19:43
Here's mine mocked up and ready for drilling. SuperTeddy board at top-right of the base. My 9-0-9V 50VA transformer looks to be about the same size as Leo's. Thanks for the case pointer, by the way, perfect!

http://www.mtc.me.uk/images/PSU Project 1.jpg

leo
14-04-2010, 19:46
Excellent stuff Martin, look forward to seeing how you get on with this and how it compares against the Timestep

Marco
14-04-2010, 22:00
Way hey - nice one, Martin! We must listen and compare that with the HE PSU, when it bcomes available :eyebrows: ;)

Marco.

leo
14-04-2010, 22:13
The output impedance varies with the load on the Teddy regs, not sure how the voltage out will respond with these regs when driving something like the Techie, anyway should be interesting to see how Martin gets on, it may work great, if it doesn't suit the Techie it'll be good to try with the dac :)

MartinT
14-04-2010, 22:33
I spec'd the SuperTeddy components for a 2.5A constant current limit and the 50VA transformer likewise. The reservoir cap may be on the small side but I'll put a 'scope on the raw side of DC and watch the waveform while I start the Techie motor. If it sags too much I'll bolt a bridge rectifier on the deck and put a bigger electrolytic in a clip.

leo
14-04-2010, 23:01
Beauty with diy, just tweak away until it suits;)

DSJR
15-04-2010, 09:18
Remember the tale about the iffy supply regulator on the techie, which causes some sort of supply "notching." The Timestep apparently bypasses this with its own superior regulation....

MartinT
15-04-2010, 09:43
Yes, mine is bypassed so I'm already going straight in with clean 21V.

leo
16-04-2010, 00:20
The stock regulator should be removed or at least its output isolated , its not advisable to have the output of the new regulator running into the output of the unpowered stock one

MartinT
16-04-2010, 06:35
The stock regulator should be removed or at least its output isolated , its not advisable to have the output of the new regulator running into the output of the unpowered stock one

Agreed.

MartinT
16-04-2010, 19:50
Under test...

http://www.mtc.me.uk/images/PSU Project 2.jpg

leo
16-04-2010, 19:58
Looking good Martin , its quite a compact reg too

MartinT
16-04-2010, 20:23
its quite a compact reg too

It is for a 2.5A reg, but then an LM-317T is even smaller and can handle 1.5A.

UV101
16-04-2010, 21:45
It is for a 2.5A reg, but then an LM-317T is even smaller and can handle 1.5A.

Hi Guys,
Given the problems with heat dissipation I've recently encountered on my low noise linear 5v reg for the SB3, i'd be interested to know how this reg behaves driving 2.5A and using the case lid as a heatsink?

Are the teddy regs better/more efficient in this area?

Cheers

leo
16-04-2010, 23:22
You'd still want a meaty heatsink driving that sort of load, the Super Teddy regs use D44h11 devices which are pretty hefty, the Hammond case used as a heatsink should be fine for the Techie but not enough for a SB3

Circuit for the Super Teddy reg http://www.teddypardo.com/Images/SuperTeddyReg3.png

If you set this reg for 5v it'll probably drop a fair bit after being loaded with something as heavy as the SB3 so I'd load it with a power resistor first to give the same load current and then tweak the reg until it stays at the required voltage

twelvebears
17-04-2010, 02:50
I live at the edge of the known world (The Isle of South Uist). Any further West and you fall off the edge.
Regards
Paul

Good grief Paul, just looked your manor up on Google. Could you live anywhere more remote? :)

MartinT
17-04-2010, 08:29
You'd still want a meaty heatsink driving that sort of load

I'm concerned but will monitor things very carefully. If necessary I'll relocate the ST elsewhere and use a proper heatsink. Will perform some open-box soak testing first.

What sort of heat rise are you getting from your PH module running the Techie?

Paul Hynes
17-04-2010, 10:39
Hi Steve,

Remote is good. Nice and peaceful. There is nothing to interfere with my music like noisy neighbours. I do have customers in more remote places. One lives in Inuvik in the Arctic Circle. It gets pretty cold there, especially in winter, as they loose the sun completely from the horizon for over a month. We are lucky to have the Gulf Stream here.

Incidentally, for those who have expressed an interest in the Hebrides, I noticed in the Scottish version of the Radio Times that a new series, “Monty Hall’s Great Hebridean Escape” is scheduled to start at 9pm on BBC2, Wednesday next. I am not sure if it will be broadcast south of the border, but if his Applecross adventure last year is anything to go by it will be worth watching. He was based in North Uist, a couple of islands North of here. This should give an idea of the area although there are subtle differences between the islands.

Theoretically the Isle is my manor, and I can have a say in it’s future, as the local community exercised their right to buy the Isle of South Uist, The Isle of Eriskay and most of the Isle of Benbecula from South Uist Estates a few years ago. A trust company has been set up to run the estate on behalf of the community.

Regards
Paul

Marco
17-04-2010, 10:56
Absolutely fascinating, Paul! :eek:

How would you fancy a couple of visitors sometime? We love the highlands and Islands and always wanted to go back up that way some day :)

Marco.

Paul Hynes
17-04-2010, 11:42
Hi Marco,

Unfortunately we do not have spare room for visitors at present.

We are part way through a house renovation, and the loft/garage conversions, for additional bedrooms and dedicated music room, have not started yet. It will be several years before we get to this, as we will have to accumulate the funds that will be required before going ahead. At the moment all the ground floor accommodation is in use. This is somewhat inconvenient because when family and friends visit we have to find accommodation for them elsewhere. This can be a problem at certain times of the year, as there are so few hotels and B&B establishments on the island.

Regards,
Paul

Marco
17-04-2010, 11:46
Hi Paul,

Lol - I didn't mean actually staying with you; just coming to visit :)

I presume there is at least one hotel or perhaps a few B&Bs in the area - oh and somewhere to hire a car would be good, too... :cool:

Marco.

Paul Hynes
17-04-2010, 12:43
Hi Marco,

There are three hotels within a 10-15 minute drive and a number of B&Bs around but they are small and often fully booked in summer depending what is going on locally. Car hire is available but be careful where you book a car as my lass’s family were given one that would have been at home on the scrap heap. Most of the roads are single track so don’t expect to go anywhere quickly. All the islands from Eriskay in the South to Berneray in the North are connected by causeway and the others have ferry connections, so island hopping is relatively easy and well worth doing for the stunning scenery

Regards
Paul

colinB
17-04-2010, 14:13
You might have problem getting a pint up there but i bet your mains supply is clean as a whistle

Paul Hynes
17-04-2010, 14:41
Hi Colin,

Unfortunately the mains supply here is not that clean. We get the usual domestic interference from other homes and my computer UPS supply monitor shows wild variations in voltage on the mains supply. We get a lot of power cuts especially during the winter storms where gale force winds and lightening strikes can take the local grid out. We also suffer from repetitive trip-outs of protection equipment on the local grid, which is why I had to install the UPS on the computer.

Regards
Paul

colinB
17-04-2010, 14:54
Oh. Sorry to hear that. I guess i was thinking of RF which i had a real problem with when i lived in Crystal Palace ( until recently)
I would love to have a go at your PSU for my technics Paul. I used to be a spark and i love having a fiddle with my soldering iron. It looks really straight forward but then i thought that about a mates video intercom i installed. I blew a cap and he had to get another one so im not as confident with electronics now. It does look easy though.

leo
17-04-2010, 16:47
I'm concerned but will monitor things very carefully. If necessary I'll relocate the ST elsewhere and use a proper heatsink. Will perform some open-box soak testing first.

What sort of heat rise are you getting from your PH module running the Techie?

Hi Martin,

You should be ok with the Techie, the Paul Hynes module doesn't even run warm running the Techie so you should be ok too where as something like the SB3 as mentioned by Ian would be a much heavier constant load

Cheers,
Leo

leo
17-04-2010, 16:50
Oh. Sorry to hear that. I guess i was thinking of RF which i had a real problem with when i lived in Crystal Palace ( until recently)
I would love to have a go at your PSU for my technics Paul. I used to be a spark and i love having a fiddle with my soldering iron. It looks really straight forward but then i thought that about a mates video intercom i installed. I blew a cap and he had to get another one so im not as confident with electronics now. It does look easy though.

Its a doddle to wire up Colin, Paul couldn't have made this module any user friendly than this (well done that man) the hardest bit is drilling the holes in the case, wiring things up is easy too.
If you do fancy a bash you could just post on here if you need any advice or whatever :)

colinB
17-04-2010, 17:13
Thats great Leo , i will get going at the end of the month.:)

MartinT
19-04-2010, 21:59
Finishing the build:

http://www.mtc.me.uk/images/PSU Project 3.jpg

http://www.mtc.me.uk/images/PSU Project 4.jpg

http://www.mtc.me.uk/images/PSU Project 5.jpg

I am aborting this implementation for the SL-1210 because I soon realised that the Superteddy runs out of regulation using a 9-0-9V transformer. I was getting 20.6V out for 23.5V in and ran out of adjustment range (i.e. adjusting the pot further gave no increase in voltage under load). I did try it out for sound against the TimeStep and it didn't sound as good - the dynamics were somewhat softened. Interestingly, the start-up speed was faster than the TimeStep indicating that there is no lack of raw current.

So I've now readjusted it to 15V (plenty of regulation now) and will continue this project as a Caiman PSU once I make up an adapter lead. I have good hopes for it in this application due to the ultra low noise and many forum reports of success with DACs. I'll start a new thread once I've had a proper listen tomorrow.

Oh, and well done Sound Hi-Fi. The TimeStep has so far beaten my own PSU and been the equal of Shuggie's Paul Hynes PSU in my system.

Marco
19-04-2010, 22:50
Hi Martin,

Good stuff - at least you've found a use for it in the end :)


Oh, and well done Sound Hi-Fi. The TimeStep has so far beaten my own PSU and been the equal of Shuggie's Paul Hynes PSU in my system.


Yes you mentioned that to me, and it's very interesting. In my system (and the one we set up at Scalford Hall), using my SL-1210, the Paul Hynes was clearly superior to my Time Step PSU, but as is always the case with these things, results vary from system to system and/or possibly T/T to T/T, depending on what arm and cartridge are used.

What it clearly shows is that no matter anyone's opinion, there is no PSU universally 'the best' in all applications, so perhaps Dave C should've been more confident in allowing me to audition an HE PSU when they became available, as no matter what I found best in my system, others and you might have obtained different results and preferred something else........

At the end of the day, no one person's opinion on a piece of equipment is ever definitive ;)

I'll look forward to Paul sending me one of his PSUs so I can audition it at length at home. I also believe that Anthony TD is going to produce a PSU design of his own for the Technics and throw it into the ring too for assessment, so that should also be very interesting :cool:

Marco.

MartinT
19-04-2010, 23:06
Excellent stuff. At least I am resting easy about PSUs now as I've tried three and I'm guessing the TimeStep is near the upper part of the performance curve for my deck. Of course, the new platter could shake all that up again.

Marco
19-04-2010, 23:14
Indeed - when the new platter and HE PSU are available, we need to do some in-depth comparisons with both our T/Ts using the new platter and various PSU combinations.

Hopefully by then I'll have a sample of Paul's PSU and also Anthony's design to bring with me chez-toi. I think Hugo and Snoops should sit in on that one too, as it has the makings of an excellent sesh - with the results very interesting for everyone concerned, not least of whom the Techy fans here! :cool:

Marco.

leo
20-04-2010, 00:06
I guess theres no details for the HE yet?

MartinT
20-04-2010, 05:00
I guess theres no details for the HE yet?

None yet - all I could glean from Dave is that he is going to put a much larger energy store (i.e. reservoir capacitor) in it.

Marco
20-04-2010, 06:50
Do you know if that was originally planned, Martin, or something Dave has decided to implement recently?

Marco.

MartinT
20-04-2010, 07:02
I've no idea, Marco, all I can tell you is that he is ramping up for production using some local assemblers.

DSJR
20-04-2010, 07:07
Can I ask a very cheeky question (Marco, please delete if you feel it best...)

WHY do we need a new platter on the Techie? The rubber lining underneath and the Herbies mat seem to do a good job as they are, especially with the MN bearing and carefully regulated power supply. Is the extra mass needed to increase isolation from the surroundings perhaps?

I mean, the traditional performance of the 1200 motor unit is close to state-of-the-art as it is, except for isolation, where it shows its one remaining weakness compared to the heavyweights or sprung belt drives - and this can be well sorted with decent feet..

Marco
20-04-2010, 07:48
Hi Dave,

That's not cheeky at all, mate. I guess the answer is *if* I consider that it makes a significant sonic improvement over the stock item in conjunction with one of the new PSUs.

I asked Mike New the question before here:

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5903&page=3


What sonic benefits do you foresee will be brought about with the forthcoming (much thicker) platter upgrade and what, in your opinion, are the technical/engineering reasons behind its design?


To which he answered:


Marco,

My objective is to produce a platter that really complements the potential of the direct drive system, and has far greater sonic qualities than the very inadequate standard offering.

I am machining the platters from quality aerospace aluminium, which in itself is not imune from ringing, however because the platter is machined from a solid blank It is expected that the resonant energy will be low. Also there are five brass inserts which are a shrink fit into the platter, these are designed to absorb and counteract resonance. There will be a groove machine under the main 300mm dia, of the platter for lifting purposes.

I have attempted to get some weight below the spindle support but this is controlled by the existing components on the circuit board which would appear to vary between models.
The new platter presumes the use of an external PS, the exisiting transformer and wiring will need to be removed and the top cover can no longer be used as it obstucts the lower part of the platter.
I guess this platter represents something of a radical departure from the norm. Dave will shortly be getting the first production unit for sonic evaluation using his test equipment.


The key bit is in bold. If that's the case, then I'll be having one :cool:

Martin,


I've no idea, Marco, all I can tell you is that he is ramping up for production using some local assemblers.


Interesting... Perhaps recent events have caused him to 'up the ante', as it were? ;)

If so, then Paul and Anthony providing healthy competition, by chucking their designs into the ring for me to assess, will have been a good thing.... As far as I'm concerned the HE PSU is still in the equation, but I will only settle on it *if* I consider it sonically superior in my system compared to all other options.

I suggest that you also remain similarly open-minded on the matter :)

Marco.

MartinT
20-04-2010, 07:53
In my system (and the one we set up at Scalford Hall), using my SL-1210, the Paul Hynes was clearly superior to my Time Step PSU

I still believe that my Powerplant modifies PSU performance (or, more accurately, improves PSU performance up to a higher level) due to its ultra-pure mains waveform and very low output impedance. There is always the effect of the motor dynamics mod to consider too.

Marco
20-04-2010, 08:08
Indeed, Martin - those are very valid points.

I guess the best way of analysing what's going on is in that respect is when I come down to yours with my T/T, and (hopefully) by then a Paul Hynes and Tube Distinctions PSU, once you've taken delivery of the HE PSU and new platter.

I've already heard the Paul Hynes fitted to my SL-1210 outperform the Time Step PSU, both in my system at home and at Scalford Hall. Therefore if that's not the case in your system, and we hear no difference between the two, just like Shuggie and you did, then we'll know that your Powerplant is levelling the playing field, which will of course significantly impact on the outcome of our findings.....

Basically it'll prove what we've always thought, which is that no one PSU is universally superior in all applications.

Like I said, it's shaping up to a very interesting (and enlightening) session! :cool:

Have a think about some suitable dates and PM me, will you?

Marco.

Ammonite Audio
20-04-2010, 10:34
Martin - do you know what is the optimum input voltage for the Caiman? I see that it states 15v to 18v on the back panel. My Paul Hynes Design PSU should be adjustable down to 15v (certainly 18v) and I'd be very interested to know how it fares on the Caiman, since I have been considering getting one myself.

Marco - I think Martin has put his finger on why there appeared to be a level playing field between the Timestep and Paul Hynes PSUs in his system.

Paul Hynes
20-04-2010, 11:01
Hi Folks

Shuggie and MartinT have been comparing power supplies and found little difference between Shuggie’s SR3 and the Timestep in Martin’s system. This is likely to be that the difference in power line interference rejection between the two power supplies is less obvious with a Powerplant in the system, as the power feed will be much cleaner. Of course you have to factor the additional cost of the Powerplant into the equation. To compare the Techie power supply capabilities requires a stand-alone comparison test as well as most people would run without a Powerplant.

There are a number of circuit subsections on the Techie pcb that are all being powered together by an external remote power supply. I think there could be a lot of board interaction that a remote psu would be unable to deal with effectively because of its distance from the load. To do it properly would require good local regulation on each separate circuit function on the Techie printed circuit board. Maybe one day I will get a Techie and do a definitive internal regulation job on it.

Regards
Paul

Marco
20-04-2010, 18:20
Hi Shuggs,


Marco - I think Martin has put his finger on why there appeared to be a level playing field between the Timestep and Paul Hynes PSUs in his system.

Oh I don't doubt it, I simply want to hear the effect with my own ears, so that will happen at our forthcoming bake-off :cool:

Marco.

MartinT
20-04-2010, 18:32
Martin - do you know what is the optimum input voltage for the Caiman?

Hi Hugo

See the other posting on my PSU for the Caiman. I have set it to 16V so that, after the diode drop, there is about 15.5V available into the 12V Dexa regulator in my modified Caiman. This keeps things safe with the 16V electrolytics inside the Caiman. It sounds just great, so I'll leave it alone for a while and just listen.

Marco
20-04-2010, 19:07
Hi Paul,


Shuggie and MartinT have been comparing power supplies and found little difference between Shuggie’s SR3 and the Timestep in Martin’s system. This is likely to be that the difference in power line interference rejection between the two power supplies is less obvious with a Powerplant in the system, as the power feed will be much cleaner.


Yes that seems to be the case. However, a subjectively lower perceived noise floor, greater overall clarity, and thus more insight into music, were indeed some of the benefits your PSU exhibited over the Time Step both in my system at home and at Scalford Hall where no Powerplant was used.

On top of that, the SR3 appeared to give music more impetus and drive, and a seemingly greater sense of speed stability being more rigidly 'locked into position'.

The Powerplant thing is interesting... When I receive your PSU for evaluation, I will try both it and the Time Step through Anthony TD's mains filter to help eradicate the issue of power line interference rejection - in fact, both PSUs can be plugged into the filter at the same time, and I can simply swap between one and the other in seconds when listening to music (thanks to the super-fast start up time of the 1210), so that should be interesting.


Of course you have to factor the additional cost of the Powerplant into the equation. To compare the Techie power supply capabilities requires a stand-alone comparison test as well as most people would run without a Powerplant.


Indeed. Trust me, I intend to be as thorough as possible in that respect, which is why I must hear all PSU options through Martin's Powerplant in order to come to an accurate and definitive conclusion. I never do things by halves! ;)


There are a number of circuit subsections on the Techie pcb that are all being powered together by an external remote power supply. I think there could be a lot of board interaction that a remote psu would be unable to deal with effectively because of its distance from the load. To do it properly would require good local regulation on each separate circuit function on the Techie printed circuit board. Maybe one day I will get a Techie and do a definitive internal regulation job on it.


You should certainly do that, Paul, as I'm sure you'd have plenty of interested parties in such fundamental power supply modifications, not least of all me.... I suspect that your relationship with AOS and our promoting of Technics T/T modifications will be a long, happy, and fruitful one....

Here's to the future! :cool:

Marco.

Paul Hynes
21-04-2010, 15:31
Hi Folks,

It looks like I will soon be the proud owner of a Technics SL1210.

I will look into the on board regulation possibilities once I have taken some measurements.

Regards
Paul

Marco
21-04-2010, 15:52
Mmmm.... Now things get interesting! :eyebrows:

;)

Marco.

anthonyTD
21-04-2010, 15:56
Hi Folks,

It looks like I will soon be the proud owner of a Technics SL1210.

I will look into the on board regulation possibilities once I have taken some measurements.

Regards
Paul
hi paul,
you have beaten me to it!:eek: nice one, i was discusing this with marco just the other day and i think as you say there are a few circuits in there that can greatly benefit from individual bespoke regulation, i had already decided to take on this chalenge but seen as your keen to do the ground work i will opt out [gracefully] on this one at the moment,its all yours.:)
A...

Paul Hynes
21-04-2010, 17:23
Hi Anthony,

Sorry, I wasn’t aware of your plans. Please do not alter them on my behalf. There is room on the planet for both of us. A collaboration would be another interesting option. I can get on with a man who likes Marshall and Vox guitar amplifiers. I used both in the 1970’s.

Regards
Paul

anthonyTD
21-04-2010, 17:47
hi paul,
you have a PM.:)
A...

Marco
21-04-2010, 20:27
Mmmm... Now things get even more interesting!! :eyebrows:

I must admit this 'working together thing' is very refreshing and rather different to what we've been used to from other parties in that respect ;)

Marco.

leo
21-04-2010, 22:15
Mmmm... Now things get even more interesting!! :eyebrows:

I must admit this 'working together thing' is very refreshing and rather different to what we've been used to from other parties in that respect ;)

Marco.

This will be far more interesting than any shit flinging:whistle: