View Full Version : Suggestions for preamp upgrade
I’ve recently connected up my old hifi system to my iMac. I’m using Roon to stream my (classical) music and the audio chain looks like this:
iMac => ethernet => microRendu => USB => Chord Qutest => Quad 66 => Quad 606 => Quad ESL 63s
I’m thinking about upgrading the amplifier and my local dealer has suggested replacing the Quad 66 with an Icon Audio LA4 Mk III. I’m hoping to audition it over the next few days.
In the meanwhile, I’d love to hear from anyone who has experience of this (or a similar combo) or has a view about it.
Philip
I would look at Primaluna, similar in sound to the Icon (ive only heard the icon 40 but guessing the la4 has the same sound) however Primaluna feels “smarter” with auto-bias and a good remote.
Prima Luna will change tone I suspect, depending on the load presented and more perhaps than other valve amps with output transformers. It may be a lovely sound and this brand is much loved by a small legion of enthusiastic owners (I hope to listen to one of the top models soon) but 'neutral' it aint according to the Stereophile reviews into real-world speakers anyway. Just keep eyes shut and ears open when listening to one and if you like the 'flavour' then brilliant :D Icon Audio used to be good I remember, but they deal direct these days more I gather, although I could be wrong here.
The 66 preamp is pretty good, but I remember the early version (there was a re-design into basically a mk2 version at some point according to the dada website) could sound just a little 'light' in sonic textures from memory. Lots of op-amps I seem to recall that could be changed for the better here if memory serves. I have to say that remote aside, the 77 preamp was a leap forward in musical terms and I love this sweet toned and 'airy' design and the phono stage was no slouch either.
Purely my opinion obviously, but a good working 606 *to me* is a top amp regardless of price. Early ones (our first demo unit) took time to warm up (a couple of hours to remove a 'grain' from the sound) but later mk1 samples didn't! It doesn't sound overly 'analytical' or 'sharp,' but neither does it sound boringly slugged or slushy to me. My perhaps silly comment about eyes shut and ears open applies HUGELY to the 606, as it's a bloody ugly looking breeze-block thing with well, the visual charm of a 'breeze block ;)' Had it looked like the slightly less powerful 520, it might have appealed to me more (who says appearances have no impact - they bloomin' well do!). dada do service kits for almost all Quad amps and if you want 'more' than a good 606 can give, I seriously think it'll cost a lot more.
Be careful with the 63's. By all accounts, they can come unstuck and as you must know, the grilles under the cloths, if the domestic model, tend to need the speakers raised up and/or angled back a bit for best high frequencies if they're not to sound thick and muffled...
Thanks for this suggestion, hlinden. The Primaluna seems to be a bit more expensive than the Icon, which is already a bit of a stretch for my budget.
I do like the prospect of a good remote – the Quad one I've been using has really spoiled me in that respect. But with most of the controls on my iPad using the Roon app, all I need is an on/off button and volume control.
Could you tell me what auto-bias is?
Thanks for those thoughts and observations, David.
I agree with you about the Quad 606, as does my local dealer. Except that I'm happy with the aesthetics of the unit. I like its understated solidity. Have you any experience of the dada upgrade kit for the 606? I have no experience of opening up and amplifier so although it sounds really interesting I'm wary of wrecking my amp.
As to the ESL 63s, I'd be up for putting them on stands but they're already unpopular with my wife, who sees them as big, ugly slabs encroaching into the room. I don't think I'd get away with making them any bigger.
When you say that Icon Audio used to be good, is that to imply that the quality of their products has slipped? The reviews I've read of the LA4 Mk III are positive but mostly entirely subjective. I'd love to see a more scientific/objective study but I've had no luck in finding one.
Frazeur1
24-09-2018, 23:49
Unpopular vote here, save your money, enjoy what you have! It appears to be a fine setup.
Light Dependant Resistor
25-09-2018, 00:46
I agree, keep your 606 and 63's, (which are not as large as 57's )
as they both are exceedingly good.
As for the preamp yes that needs changing to a passive, which will suit the
incredible sensitivity of the 606 perfectly.
If you go the passive route, I'd highly recommend the Schiit Saga (https://schiit.eu.com/preamps/Saga). It works a treat with my Beard P35, and is a steal at the price. It even has a remote control. More info on the manufacturer's site (http://www.schiit.com/products/saga).
If you go the passive route, I'd highly recommend the Schiit Saga (https://schiit.eu.com/preamps/Saga). It works a treat with my Beard P35, and is a steal at the price. It even has a remote control. More info on the manufacturer's site (http://www.schiit.com/products/saga).
This is a really interesting suggestion, thank you, Rob. I hadn't come across the Schiit Saga and it has the definite advantage of being about a quarter the price of the Icon and Primaluna options. I just called Schiit's UK distributor and he's offered to loan me his demo unit in a couple of weeks' time. He's concerned that in tube mode it might cause hum on the electrostatics (but that shouldn't be the case in passive mode).
I'm going to try and get the Schiit and Icon preamps on loan together so I can plug them into my system and audition them alongside my Quad 66. Should be interesting.
Thank you too, Frazeur1 and Light Dependant Resistor for your thoughts. I'm learning a lot here and it's really interesting.
Philip
hifinutt
25-09-2018, 17:31
If you go the passive route, I'd highly recommend the Schiit Saga (https://schiit.eu.com/preamps/Saga). It works a treat with my Beard P35, and is a steal at the price. It even has a remote control. More info on the manufacturer's site (http://www.schiit.com/products/saga).
yes , i use it in valve mode and its a super little pre amp . i also have the schiit freya pre which is good and that my sell soon as i am happy with the saga
hifinutt
25-09-2018, 17:42
This is a really interesting suggestion, thank you, Rob. I hadn't come across the Schiit Saga and it has the definite advantage of being about a quarter the price of the Icon and Primaluna options. I just called Schiit's UK distributor and he's offered to loan me his demo unit in a couple of weeks' time. He's concerned that in tube mode it might cause hum on the electrostatics (but that shouldn't be the case in passive mode).
I'm going to try and get the Schiit and Icon preamps on loan together so I can plug them into my system and audition them alongside my Quad 66. Should be interesting.
Thank you too, Frazeur1 and Light Dependant Resistor for your thoughts. I'm learning a lot here and it's really interesting.
Philip
the saga does not hum at all in valve mode that i can see . the freya has 14db gain in valve mode and there can be a tiny tiny little bit of noise but its very small . i only notice it with my sensitive horns . it was deadly silent with my tannoys and the quad 2905 i heard it with
look forward how it compares . i use a brimar valve in the saga courtesy of jerry and i like it . the freya has a bit more slam but i think the saga is very good
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1890/43684086684_86ed9f10c7_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/29ydn3m)P1060391 (https://flic.kr/p/29ydn3m) by [/url], on Flickr
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1866/43673206794_8c04c6d650_k.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/photos/158267783@N02/)P1060387 (https://flic.kr/p/29xfAQ3) by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/158267783@N02/], on Flickr
The spec for a Quad 606 is 0.5V for 140W into 8 ohms. 0.775V is pretty typical for many power amps, and 0.5V is only 4dB more sensitive than that, so I think "incredible sensitivity" is something of an overstatement.
Agree but QUAD amps do seem to work especially well with passive pots. Heard that more than once.
Agree but QUAD amps do seem to work especially well with passive pots. Heard that more than once.
Since digital sources have a typical maximum output level of 2V, the 0.5V sensitivity of Quad amplifiers is sufficiently high to allow the use of a passive pot.
2V is the Red Book standard but some CD players go up to 3V. Don't know about DACS but I imagine it's similar. One set up I heard was run from a Memorex cassette deck into QED passive pot into QUAD 303. Really good sound.
I'm glad my suggestion was of interest.
I'm going to try and get the Schiit and Icon preamps on loan together so I can plug them into my system and audition them alongside my Quad 66. Should be interesting.
It will be interesting to hear how the comparison turns out.
2V is the Red Book standard but some CD players go up to 3V. Don't know about DACS but I imagine it's similar. One set up I heard was run from a Memorex cassette deck into QED passive pot into QUAD 303. Really good sound.
Even more reason to try a passive pot.
Light Dependant Resistor
26-09-2018, 01:40
Even more reason to try a passive pot.
Or opto coupled passive attenuation with contact less switching of inputs.
Lawrence001
26-09-2018, 06:58
I was waiting for that! When others say an amp is sensitive enough to be suitable for a passive do we not need to also consider input impedance?
If you go for a passive with a sensitive power amp, watch out for channel imbalance at low levels if it has a pot, and sufficient steps to very volume how you like it at a low level if a stepped attenuator. I've had issues on both counts with otherwise excellent passives. Unless you always play it loud!
Sent from my BLN-L21 using Tapatalk
Light Dependant Resistor
26-09-2018, 08:25
I was waiting for that! When others say an amp is sensitive enough to be suitable for a passive do we not need to also consider input impedance?
If you go for a passive with a sensitive power amp, watch out for channel imbalance at low levels if it has a pot, and sufficient steps to very volume how you like it at a low level if a stepped attenuator. I've had issues on both counts with otherwise excellent passives. Unless you always play it loud!
Sent from my BLN-L21 using Tapatalk
Input impedance of ? a power amp, In the case of LDR's no it hardly factors, and is easily compensated by choosing a slightly higher resistance shunt pair.
With LDR's we are free to arrange more or less current to the anodes for shunt or the anodes for series,
So gone are the days of LDR passives ( when done properly ) not matching to equipment. Typical figures are power amp sensitivity not to be higher than 2v for full output and
resistance loading higher than 10k which is about 95% of available power amps.
As for sources CD players DAC's dedicated phono stages and tuners ( other than Quad;s FM3 ) have more than adequate output.
Where'as pot passives are sort of stuck, offering 10k as a minimum value, and have little ability to tailor shunt or series resistances separately.
Mary Hallock Greenewalts patent of 1919-20 gives historical reference of rheostats - potentiometers, https://patents.google.com/patent/US1357773A/en
that were never designed for audio at all, rather for Mary's musical light display - Nourathar
Another vote for the Schiit Saga and Quad here. I used a Dada-modified 306 with the Schiit and found it excellent.
(I've since moved on to a Schiit Saga + WD KEL84 valve amp)
If you're into valve designs (and/or fancy building one yourself) then I suggest looking at: http://www.world-designs.co.uk/products.htm
Primalsea
26-09-2018, 09:31
The Quad 606 has an input impedance of around 22k making it not so good a candidate for a passive volume control, on paper anyway, IMO, but its not the full story, so shouldn’t be discounted as an option. However, it seems to work well by many accounts and a passive volume control with selectable inputs and a separate buffer could give you plenty of flexibility and potentially cost less. I find that these days preamps tend to have too much gain unless you have an insensitive power amp or a vintage source with a low output.
Light Dependant Resistor
26-09-2018, 09:58
The Quad 606 has an input impedance of around 22k making it not so good a candidate for a passive volume control, on paper anyway, IMO, but its not the full story, so shouldn’t be discounted as an option. However, it seems to work well by many accounts and a passive volume control with selectable inputs and a separate buffer could give you plenty of flexibility and potentially cost less. I find that these days preamps tend to have too much gain unless you have an insensitive power amp or a vintage source with a low output.
I use Quad 306's one channel of each amp for each channel, and their input resistance at 20k is perfect, with my LDR passive, which has a lot to do with the 306's
outstanding sensitivity of 375mv for full output. Quad 606's are similar. Sensitivity can be adjusted via R13 for 306 or R11 for 606 - which for the 306 is a 9R1 resistor
and for 606 a 7R5 ie changing R11 to 9R1 would increase its sensitivity.
I'm impressed by the level of knowledge here! And a bit out of my depth.
It sounds like the Schiit Saga will work with my Quad 606, and if passive mode is unsatisfactory then active would be a fallback. With regard to the input, my DAC has a variable output that can be set at 1V, 2V or 3V. Which of those would you recommend?
I'd really like to have a remote control so for me a simple pot is probably off the menu.
It's going to be about two weeks until the test unit arrives from Schiit. When it does, I'll be sure to report back.
Thanks again for all the amazing advice and encouragement and keep it coming!!!
Philip
Bonky mentioned that he'd been using a Dada-modified Quad 306 with his Schiit Saga. I'm conscious that my Quad 606 (Mk 1) must be over 30 years old now and would benefit from a service – something my local dealer mentioned to me. So, I've identified five options:
1. Do nothing. Wait until the 606 actually breaks down.
2. Send it to Quad for a service now.
3. Order the kit from dada and find a local technician to install it for me – http://www.dadaelectronics.eu/shop/quad-upgrade-kits/quad-66-series-i-upgrade-and-revision-kit.
4. Send the unit to Russ Andrews for an upgrade – http://www.russandrews.com/quad-606-upgrade/.
5. Send it to Red Hill Audio for one of the two upgrade options they offer – http://redhillaudio.co.uk/hifi-upgrades/quad-upgrades/quad-606-mk1-upgrade-stage-1?page=3 or http://redhillaudio.co.uk/hifi-upgrades/quad-upgrades/quad-606-mk1-upgrade-stage-2?page=4.
Each of the upgrade options is different from the others and the prices vary quite a lot. As a music lover rather than a technician, I have no idea how to choose between them. If you were in my position, which would you go for and why?
Thanks in advance for your insights.
Philip
walpurgis
26-09-2018, 14:31
Sending away for upgrade work will probably cost a couple of hundred quid. Instead, you could sell the 606 for a decent price, add the money that would have gone on upgrades and buy a 909 or Elite power amp and still have a bit of change left over. Just a thought. :)
A Quad service will actually check all the components which are known to degrade or drift. The good thing about Quad is they do not change stuff for the sake of changing it, if its still within spec it stays untouched. It will also still sound like a 606 when its been done too which I think is a bonus as I like the sound the 606 makes.
. With regard to the input, my DAC has a variable output that can be set at 1V, 2V or 3V. Which of those would you recommend?
2V is the standard so I'd start with that. If it's too loud before you've hardly moved the volume control, drop it down to 1V. If you've got to crank the volume all the way to the end before it's loud enough, step it up to 3V.
I can't envisage a situation where you'd need 3V unless using a passive pre-amp into a very insensitive power amp.
Bear in mind that recordings are all made to play back at different levels too. Rock and pop recordings tend to be more dynamically compressed than jazz and classical so you won't need as much volume to play them loud. So test with a range of recordings before deciding on a voltage output setting for the DAC.
walpurgis
26-09-2018, 15:58
What about a variable gain pre-amp from China. It's a Pass derived design with three gain options. I quite like the look of this and was toying with the idea of getting one myself, for use with my Quad 306.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Finished-Pass-2-0-Preamplifier-HiFi-MOS-FET-Preamp-4-way-Input-Pre-amp/272866773086?hash=item3f8820885e:g:BYcAAOSw5VtZzc2 k
Sending away for upgrade work will probably cost a couple of hundred quid. Instead, you could sell the 606 for a decent price, add the money that would have gone on upgrades and buy a 909 or Elite power amp and still have a bit of change left over. Just a thought. :)
That's a cool idea. I'll put it into the mix. If I go with the Schiit Saga or another similarly priced option rather than an Icon or PrimaLuna preamp, I should be able to afford to upgrade/replace the 606.
2V is the standard so I'd start with that. If it's too loud before you've hardly moved the volume control, drop it down to 1V. If you've got to crank the volume all the way to the end before it's loud enough, step it up to 3V.
I can't envisage a situation where you'd need 3V unless using a passive pre-amp into a very insensitive power amp.
Bear in mind that recordings are all made to play back at different levels too. Rock and pop recordings tend to be more dynamically compressed than jazz and classical so you won't need as much volume to play them loud. So test with a range of recordings before deciding on a voltage output setting for the DAC.
Really helpful, thank you, Martin
What about a variable gain pre-amp from China. It's a Pass derived design with three gain options. I quite like the look of this and was toying with the idea of getting one myself, for use with my Quad 306.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Finished-Pass-2-0-Preamplifier-HiFi-MOS-FET-Preamp-4-way-Input-Pre-amp/272866773086?hash=item3f8820885e:g:BYcAAOSw5VtZzc2 k
Interesting but probably not for me. I love the price but I don't know enough about what I'd be getting and with no reviews I'd feel a bit nervous. Also, it looks like there's no handset and I'd really prefer to have one. Thanks for the suggestion, though.
A Quad service will actually check all the components which are known to degrade or drift. The good thing about Quad is they do not change stuff for the sake of changing it, if its still within spec it stays untouched. It will also still sound like a 606 when its been done too which I think is a bonus as I like the sound the 606 makes.
I sent a 33 pre-amp back to Quad for a check a while back (noisy filter control) ... great advantage was that they charged a flat fee for labour regardless of what needs doing (don't know if this is still the case)
Less convincing was the time it took to get done (weeks) and they added a charge for packaging because they will only despatch in their original packing material ... If you still have yours for the 606 then no problem.
I have also upgraded a Quad 33 and a Quad 303 using the Dada sets and found this a good route for upgrading IF you have the skills or know someone who can do it for you. Most of the other upgrade options I found way to expensive for what are essentially ancient amps...
On the subject of passives - I have found both a 'simple' voltage divider pot or stepped attenuator perfect with both the Quad 303 and 405-2 amps that I have - in any event equally as good as my modded 33 and plain 34 pre's.
Again, If you can find someone with the skills to build one in a box for you, the remote controlled Alps is an option I would definitely think worth a punt (compared to the pricier alternatives)
A left-field suggestion would be a Quad Vena which would dispense with DAC, pre and power amp. I have one and find the sound it produces definitely on a par with the output from the 405-2 ... with a lot less cabling involved ;)
(I have no experience of the 606 though ....)
Also worth bearing in mind that passives can have 'pre-attenuation' resistors fitted to allow for a broader range of control - there are details of values on the website of one of the suppliers of stepped attenuators; I will have a scour of my saved links and post it here if I find it.
EDIT to add link:
http://www.goldpt.com/mods.html
hifinutt
27-09-2018, 19:10
personally i prefer the more full blooded and bouncy sound from the valve section on the schiit pre amps , the passive does not really float my boat in them. much better in the valve form with my set up . bit 2 dimentional
Philip
In what way do you feel you need your system to improve soundwise? What is your system lacking currently? This will guide you which direction to go.
If you live near me feel free to pop in. We could try out different preamps. I have a valve, LDR passive and solid state preamps.
Philip
In what way do you feel you need your system to improve soundwise? What is your system lacking currently? This will guide you which direction to go.
If you live near me feel free to pop in. We could try out different preamps. I have a valve, LDR passive and solid state preamps.
Well, that's a tempting offer, Edward. I think we must live quite close to each other – I'm in London N8. I'd love to drop by and listen to your various preamps. And I'd like to invite you back to listen to my system and see what you think. How best to arrange?
Philip
Well, that's a tempting offer, Edward. I think we must live quite close to each other – I'm in London N8. I'd love to drop by and listen to your various preamps. And I'd like to invite you back to listen to my system and see what you think. How best to arrange?
Philip
PM me Philip. I work from home so available most times.
WESTLOWER
27-09-2018, 22:43
Well, that's a tempting offer, Edward. I think we must live quite close to each other – I'm in London N8. I'd love to drop by and listen to your various preamps. And I'd like to invite you back to listen to my system and see what you think. How best to arrange?
Philip
The North London connections are growing :)
Colin2040
28-09-2018, 09:22
I am considering something similar and one amp I have come across is the Emotiva PT100 seems to get good reviews wondered if this would be an option or if anyone had any experience of it.
I am considering something similar and one amp I have come across is the Emotiva PT100 seems to get good reviews wondered if this would be an option or if anyone had any experience of it.
It looks like a nice bit of kit, Colin, but for me it has elements I don't really need – an FM tuner and a built-in DAC.
Colin2040
28-09-2018, 18:33
Managed to find a few more reviews, bit varied seem to be either really good or seem to be the reverse. I would like a Saga but would like it to have a phono. I thought they did an upgrade option but unfortunately not to the Saga.
So, my thinking is continuing to evolve thanks to ongoing online research, a visit to the Festival of Sound, an audition of Edwardlon’s amazing system, swapping in and out three different preamps, and a phonecall with Quad’s service department.
The Festival of Sound gave me an impression of just how dangerously seductive high-end hifi can be and also showed me that my hearing isn’t as finely tuned as those of real audiophiles. I went to a demonstration by Russ Andrews in which he convinced his audience that mounting an amplifier on oak feet made a significant improvement to the sound. Unfortunately, if I’m honest, I couldn’t hear the difference.
I could, on the other hand, hear the differences between the three preamps Edwardlon let me listen to. I’d describe those differences as subtle (by which I don’t mean to suggest unimportant) rather than massive. Which makes me suspect that it will be difficult to justify spending pretty much all of my current budget on the Icon LA4 Mark III.
I discovered that Quad will charge £55 labour + parts + VAT each to service of the 66 and 606. There’s a good chance that the parts themselves could be expensive – about £200 for each unit (the main items being a new circuit board for the 66 and a new power supply for the 606). The new power supply, capacitors, etc would effectively upgrade the 606 to a 909. I also asked, out of interest, about the ESL 63s. The cost of servicing a pair is £120 but if the diaphragms need replacing that would add another £1,300 to the cost (+ VAT of course).
All of the above has led me to try to identify/articulate what I’m trying to achieve by upgrading my setup. I think there are two, possibly related, things.
1. Improve the imaging of the soundstage. It struck me that Edwardlon’s system is well ahead of mine in terms of its ability to pinpoint different instruments in an orchestra. I’ve tried my speakers in various positions and although results have improved, there’s still a way to go.
2. Add a bit more bass without making the speakers more intrusive (so putting them on stands is not an option).
So here’s my thinking as of now.
1. Get Quad to service the 606. They reckon a service is well overdue (the unit is over 25 years old) and that it might help the issues I’ve identified. The downside is that they’re quoting a 21-day turnaround (gone are the days when you could book a service in advance and have it done on the day).
2. Either find a second-hand Lyngdorf DPA-1 on the basis that, judging from reviews, it’s a fine, neutral preamp and that its inbuilt RoomPerfect technology would go a long way towards addressing the two issues I’ve identified. The downside of the Lyngdorf is that I’d probably have to buy it from an overseas seller, meaning I couldn’t go and check it out myself.
Or go with the Schiit Saga (assuming I like what I hear when the unit arrives on loan) and have a go at addressing the room correction with Room EQ Wizard – https://community.roonlabs.com/t/a-guide-how-to-do-room-correction-and-use-it-in-roon/23800). I could then build on that by acquiring a second-hand B&W PV1 and possibly a Dspeaker Anti-mode 8033 and possibly a Dspeaker Anti-mode 8033.
And at some stage in the future, I’d love to get a more up-to-date pair of Quad electrostatics. But that’s for the future.
Does that sound like a sensible way forward? Does anyone here have experience of the Lyngdorf DPA-1 or their RoomPerfect technology or of using Room EQ Wizard (in combination with Roon)?
Ummm. Have you considered a sub-woofer?
I have indeed considered a sub-woofer. That's why the B&W PV1 is there as an option!
I have considered reading .... occasionally. :doh:
So I've spent a stimulating day and a half auditioning three preamps to replace my Quad 66 in the following system:
iMac => ethernet => microRendu => USB => Chord Qutest => Quad 66 => Quad 606 => Quad ESL 63s
I also enlisted the ears of a friend.
The price differential between the three units is quite impressive:
• Tisbury Mini Passive Preamplifier II: £149
• Schiit Saga: £360
• Icon LAIII Mk 4: £1,599 (+ £50 for Perspex cover)
All three have a clarity and immediacy that the Quad 66 lacks (and might regain, at least in part, were I to have it serviced). They put a bit more space around the instruments and singers, and add a little more definition to their placement on the sound stage.
The differences between the three preamps are noticeable but subtle. I have to say that I found it really challenging to hold in my head what one unit sounds like while unplugging it from the system and plugging in an alternative.
The Icon is a real beast – it weighs a ton and looks fantastic. It sounds fantastic too, and has tremendous presence. To my ears it trades a tiny bit of immediacy for a slightly warmer sound. It's particularly convincing in those low bass passages. My friend found the treble a bit thin, I didn't. I guess that just shows how subjective this exercise is.
With the Schiit you get two preamps in one – it has a switch that toggles between passive and valve mode. What surprised me was that, if I’m honest, I struggled to hear any real difference between the two. This was, by a hair's breadth, my friend's favourite preamp. I like that it has a remote control but I'm not mad about the sound the unit emits when dialing the volume up and down.
What initially took me aback about the Tisbury is that there’s no power supply – I just didn't expect this. You don’t plug it into the mains because it doesn’t need any power. It has tremendous clarity and punch and its ability to resolve detail is remarkable. A tick, by the way, for the clear indicator on the volume control – unlike the Icon, which gives no real visual clues of how high the volume is set.
I also tried connecting the Qutest directly to the 606, ie doing without a preamp and instead using Roon’s software volume control. The sound was very similar to the Tisbury unit, though I thought the Tisbury separated out the strands where there were many different instruments and singers slightly better than the direct link (not sure why this should be the case; perhaps it was my imagination). My main reservation about doing without a preamp is the potential for blowing up my speakers by forgetting to turn down the volume control.
My conclusion is that for my ears and in my system the Tisbury passive works best. So that's what I'm going to go with, particularly given what feels like a bargain price.
In case it's of interest, these are the recordings I used to compare and contrast the preamps:
• Schubert: Death and the Maiden Quartet, Pavel Haas Quartet
• Liszt: Piano Sonata, Stephen Hough
• Debussy: String Quartet, Quatuor Ebene
• Tchaikovsky: Symphony No. 6, Teodor Currentzis
• Mozart: Don Giovanni, Teodor Currentzis
• Bach: Sonata no 3 for solo violin, Alina Ibragimova
• Bach: Suite for solo cello no 1: Jean-Guihen Queyras
• Joan Baez: Diamonds and Rust
• Miles Davis: Kind of Blue
Thanks to everyone who's contributed their thoughts and suggestions to this thread, especially Edwardlon, who had me over to listen to his three preamps. I've learned a lot and I'd be happy to continue the conversation.
Philip
hifinutt
13-10-2018, 18:59
thanks for write up , lots of amps have volume knobs that click when changing . mfa amongst them . doesn`t bother me in the slightest on the saga and freya so don`t let it put you off . the valve stage in both saga and freya is better than the passive in my opinion . more full sounding with wider soundstage
ed schilling
26-10-2018, 04:21
Hi Andy, I just checked in and noticed you are using the image of my "Official Spokes girl" Little Miss Triode. I paid for her image to be drawn. She was and is my property. I have given permission over the years for fellows to use her in their sig. (maybe even you). I usually suggest they give credit where credit is due. She's my baby...so......I'd appreciate it if you would add "by permission of Ed Schilling, Little Miss Triode".
Thanks.
Ed Schilling
www.thehornshoppe.com
Did you copyright Little Miss Triode?
Doesn't creative work have copyright automatically?
Trademarks you have to register.
I checked and you are correct. So he does have a point
Sorry Ed I have been using her for about 5 years on various forums. I literally just stumbled across here somewhere and thought "that's a good looking picture I will try and use that as an avatar" I never thought about copyright etc LOL sorry.
I will replace her with something new, just leave it with me for a few days
Cheers
Andy
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